The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

dobman88

Enquiring wrote: »

He blocked people for abuse he was receiving. That's not right. There's no way of dressing that up.

Are you referring to the 1 poster on here that was blocked who has already clarified he did not abuse Connellan or how do you know he blocked people? I've had a look and nothing on his feed to suggest he blocked a load of people.

I agree, nobody should be subject to abuse online.

ArielAtom

o

dobman88 wrote: »

Are you referring to the 1 poster on here that was blocked who has already clarified he did not abuse Connellan or how do you know he blocked people? I've had a look and nothing on his feed to suggest he blocked a load of people.

I agree, nobody should be subject to abuse online.

The message that is being put as a subtly as a sledgehammer is that I was blocked due to abuse. It could not be further from the truth. If it’s suits a poster that has been schooled by the majority on here. A busted flush. And they know it. The poster with no allegiance to a county, or not he will admit to. Must be really embarrassed of their roots. You can’t take them seriously anymore.

Enquiring

dobman88 wrote: »

Are you referring to the 1 poster on here that was blocked who has already clarified he did not abuse Connellan or how do you know he blocked people? I've had a look and nothing on his feed to suggest he blocked a load of people.

I agree, nobody should be subject to abuse online.

I don't know if the poster here abused him or not, although he's been caught out telling porkies throughout this thread we'll have to take his word for it.

The reports of the abuse are coming from people close to Connellan but those of us who know about daring to discuss this topic, the abuse comes with the territory.

Enquiring

ArielAtom wrote: »

o

The message that is being put as a subtly as a sledgehammer is that I was blocked due to abuse. It could not be further from the truth. If it’s suits a poster that has been schooled by the majority on here. A busted flush. And they know it. The poster with no allegiance to a county, or not he will admit to. Must be really embarrassed of their roots. You can’t take them seriously anymore.

The quote function must be broken for you on my posts?

ooter

Pretty sure Bernard brogan got lashed out of it on twitter a while ago when his book came out because he suggested finances had little to do with Dublin's success.
It'd be nice to see that condemned also.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

The East Leinster project doesn't include Offaly or Westmeath and the funding was never done on a per capita basis.

And he possibly thought he was being quite cute with that sly piece of selective data

From the GAA 2019 annual report, page 196
Games development allocations by county

Offaly. €212594
Westmeath. €243372
Dublin. €1337630


From the CSO
5-14 year olds by county based on 2016 census
Offaly. 12096
Westmeath. 13311
Dublin. 168828

The numbers don’t support him, Connellans statement was more about rhetoric than facts

ooter

Yeah 168k was the figure I seen for 5-14 year olds in Dublin.

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

And he possibly thought he was being quite cute with that sly piece of selective data

From the GAA 2019 annual report, page 196
Games development allocations by county

Offaly. €212594
Westmeath. €243372
Dublin. €1337630


From the CSO
5-14 year olds by county based on 2016 census
Offaly. 12096
Westmeath. 13311
Dublin. 168828

The numbers don’t support him, Connellans statement was more about rhetoric than facts

It's like we have gone back in time here. This has been busted a long time ago. The only sly bit of selective data is coming from yourself. The funding isn't divided on a per capita basis. It never has been. Do you want me to quote you the Dublin and Cork comparisons again?

Dublin are still receiving far more than everyone else after already having 2 decades of the disparity.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

It's like we have gone back in time here. This has been busted a long time ago. The only sly bit of selective data is coming from yourself. The funding isn't divided on a per capita basis. It never has been. Do you want me to quote you the Dublin and Cork comparisons again?

Dublin are still receiving far more than everyone else after already having 2 decades of the disparity.

Simple question

Connellan made a very specific statement

Is that supported by those figures

In case you missed it, this was his quote

"The current GAA player experience and pathway of a child in a school or club in Dublin is so far superior, they are disproportionately funded per head compared to a child in a school or club in Athlone or Tullamore," he said.

"Why is that acceptable? All we're asking for is that no longer are the Dublin schools funded so disproportionately at the expense of the clubs and schools down the country.

And the figures are what you responded too

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

Simple question

Connellan made a very specific statement

Is that supported by those figures

In case you missed it, this was his quote



And the figures are what you responded too

John Connellan can speak for himself. I've already stated that I disagree with his analysis and using per capita figures is not the way the funding has been split. As you know, everyone has been receiving in and around the same apart from Dublin.

ooter

Surely Westmeath having 1/13th the number of 4-15 year olds Dublin have and receiving 1/6th the level of funding Dublin received in 2019 is more than fair in anyone's eyes?

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

John Connellan can speak for himself. I've already stated that I disagree with his analysis and using per capita figures is not the way the funding has been split. As you know, everyone has been receiving in and around the same apart from Dublin.

And another part of your argument falls apart

Tell me so, per capita doesn’t float your boat, even though the figure I’ve given reflect basically the target group for this funding. And you state you disagree with Connellan, so registered player approaches are out.

What approach do you think is “fair” for allocating gd funding

tritium

ooter wrote: »

Surely Westmeath having 1/13th the number of 4-15 year olds Dublin have and receiving 1/6th the level of funding Dublin received in 2019 is more than fair in anyone's eyes?

You’d think so wouldn’t you. Apparently John Connellan thinks dublin kids are disproportionately overfunded

I think he may have underprepared in terms of the data yet again

ooter

He was probably using that 30,000 figure for registered kids in dublin that gets trotted out here on a regular basis

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

And another part of your argument falls apart

Tell me so, per capita doesn’t float your boat, even though the figure I’ve given reflect basically the target group for this funding. And you state you disagree with Connellan, so registered player approaches are out.

What approach do you think is “fair” for allocating gd funding

My argument has stayed the same throughout and you haven't been able to touch it. Or have you found an excuse for Dublin have many multiples the number of coaches Cork have with around the same number of youth teams and players?

I disagree with Connellan stating that funding should be stopped in Dublin. The 4 new counties should continue to receive funding.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

My argument has stayed the same throughout and you haven't been able to touch it. Or have you found an excuse for Dublin have many multiples the number of coaches Cork have with around the same number of youth teams and players?

I disagree with Connellan stating that funding should be stopped in Dublin. The 4 new counties should continue to receive funding.

You’re not answering how funding should be allocated. That was the question you were asked

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

You’d think so wouldn’t you. Apparently John Connellan thinks dublin kids are disproportionately overfunded

I think he may have underprepared in terms of the data yet again

They have been over funded for nearly 2 decades. You've been told this enough times to know better.

And Dublin GAA now spend close to 4 million on developing youth standards. That's disproportionate over funding?

superbluedub

Enquiring wrote: »

My argument has stayed the same throughout and you haven't been able to touch it. Or have you found an excuse for Dublin have many multiples the number of coaches Cork have with around the same number of youth teams and players?

I disagree with Connellan stating that funding should be stopped in Dublin. The 4 new counties should continue to receive funding.

What 4 new counties ? Dublin is one County and i believe will stay that way

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

You’re not answering how funding should be allocated. That was the question you were asked

I've answered that on numerous occasions. Each county will have a difference based on what's required to improve standards in hurling and football. There's no one size fits all and each county will have their own unique issues to deal with. Overall the number of coaches from the county with the most to the county with the least will be quite small.

So any attempt to explain why Cork with around the same amount of youth teams and players have had fractions of the number of coaches Dublin have had?

ShyMets

Enquiring wrote: »

I've answered that on numerous occasions. Each county will have a difference based on what's required to improve standards in hurling and football. There's no one size fits all and each county will have their own unique issues to deal with. Overall the number of coaches from the county with the most to the county with the least will be quite small.

So any attempt to explain why Cork with around the same amount of youth teams and players have had fractions of the number of coaches Dublin have had?

You spoke about the funding being fair. In your mind what does fair look like

tritium

ShyMets wrote: »

You spoke about the funding being fair. In your mind what does fair look like

Already asked repeatedly and no meaningful answer forthcoming. He apparently will use some sort of secret case by case formula that makes everything work.

He does assure us that they’ll only be a small difference between the coaches each county will get. I suspect given his concern for cork (pop 550k) and the coaches they need that will lead to a consequent windfall for Leitrim (32k population), possibly even a personal coach for every child. Why that’s fair? Who knows. I suspect even Leitrim would see it as a waste

In reality I suspect there is no plan apart from making sure his own county are top of the pile. If they can’t win on the field of play they’ll try to win in the boardrooms.

Enquiring

ShyMets wrote: »

You spoke about the funding being fair. In your mind what does fair look like

Like with Dublin in 2002, each county will have their own task force set up to best identify what is needed to improve all areas of Gaelic games, participation, especially female participation, hurling, football, camógie, elite standards etc.

This will all have to be costed of course but it's important to get one key element right in my opinion. Now this is going to sound absurd to those who want the status quo to remain. If there's an imbalance in the funding, it should be in favour of the weaker counties, the ones without natural advantages. For some reason, the GAA decided to do the opposite two decades ago. They over funded Dublin to the detriment of all others.

Now, obviously without any analysis done as yet, the details of what each county will get can't be known. The vision would be that every county would have an equal opportunity to compete in all competitions. Of course there is always population differences but that can be overcome. If it's population and resources that are lacking, then it's almost impossible.

Each county will have officials put in place to oversee the implementation of the plan created for their county. They will have targets and standards to maintain. Other things like caps on spending, pooled sponsorship etc will also need to be looked at.

That's a basic outline of what I view as a fair system that we should have in place.

SheepsClothing

ooter wrote: »

Surely Westmeath having 1/13th the number of 4-15 year olds Dublin have and receiving 1/6th the level of funding Dublin received in 2019 is more than fair in anyone's eyes?

If Dublin want to be allocated funding on a per capita basis, they should be fielding multiple teams to support all those people being funded. You can't receive the funding of a province while fielding one team, it's nonsense.

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

Already asked repeatedly and no meaningful answer forthcoming. He apparently will use some sort of secret case by case formula that makes everything work.

He does assure us that they’ll only be a small difference between the coaches each county will get. I suspect given his concern for cork (pop 550k) and the coaches they need that will lead to a consequent windfall for Leitrim (32k population), possibly even a personal coach for every child. Why that’s fair? Who knows. I suspect even Leitrim would see it as a waste

In reality I suspect there is no plan apart from making sure his own county are top of the pile. If they can’t win on the field of play they’ll try to win in the boardrooms.

Wrong again. You're consistent in that if nothing else.

The funding disparity apologists see a vision of continuing with one county having an income of 5 and 6 million more than most others and spending close to 4 million on player development yearly. I don't think you'll have any answer as to why you think that would lead to fair competitions?

In fact it's not the only thing you can't answer. Why Cork with a similar amount of youth teams and players have access to fractions of the number of coaches available to Dublin for example.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

Wrong again. You're consistent in that if nothing else.

The funding disparity apologists see a vision of continuing with one county having an income of 5 and 6 million more than most others and spending close to 4 million on player development yearly. I don't think you'll have any answer as to why you think that would lead to fair competitions?

In fact it's not the only thing you can't answer. Why Cork with a similar amount of youth teams and players have access to fractions of the number of coaches available to Dublin for example.

Whereas you’re happy with a few counties having an income several multiples and several millions more than other counties.

Funny how once you got called on that and the clear requirement to split the mayos and Kerry’s as a consequence how you suddenly put population back on the table

I wonder why that would be......

ShyMets

Enquiring wrote: »

Like with Dublin in 2002, each county will have their own task force set up to best identify what is needed to improve all areas of Gaelic games, participation, especially female participation, hurling, football, camógie, elite standards etc.

This will all have to be costed of course but it's important to get one key element right in my opinion. Now this is going to sound absurd to those who want the status quo to remain. If there's an imbalance in the funding, it should be in favour of the weaker counties, the ones without natural advantages. For some reason, the GAA decided to do the opposite two decades ago. They over funded Dublin to the detriment of all others.

Now, obviously without any analysis done as yet, the details of what each county will get can't be known. The vision would be that every county would have an equal opportunity to compete in all competitions. Of course there is always population differences but that can be overcome. If it's population and resources that are lacking, then it's almost impossible.

Each county will have officials put in place to oversee the implementation of the plan created for their county. They will have targets and standards to maintain. Other things like caps on spending, pooled sponsorship etc will also need to be looked at.

That's a basic outline of what I view as a fair system that we should have in place.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. So in essence the Task Force would plan the funding needed in each county.

Now as each county will want to maximize funding is there not a danger that task forces will inflate the level of funding needed.

So then there would need to be vetting structure and a cap on total spending. And to ensure teams can not spend more you would be agreeable to a ban of county teams privately raising money

I do disagree regarding population. Some counties because of their low population numbers will never truly be competitive. Yes you can improve standards but lack of numbers will tell in the end

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

Whereas you’re happy with a few counties having an income several multiples and several millions more than other counties.

Funny how once you got called on that and the clear requirement to split the mayos and Kerry’s as a consequence how you suddenly put population back on the table

I wonder why that would be......

Can you show where I said it's ok for other counties to have income of millions more than everyone else?

Then can you explain why Cork with a similar amount of youth teams and players have access to fractions of the number of coaches that Dublin have?

And finally can you try to justify why you think it's ok for Dublin to have income levels of 5 and 6 million more than most other counties without using whataboutery?

You won't be able to answer any of the 3 questions posed to you. Proving once again that your argument in favour of the funding disparity has been obliterated.

tritium

SheepsClothing wrote: »

If Dublin want to be allocated funding on a per capita basis, they should be fielding multiple teams to support all those people being funded. You can't receive the funding of a province while fielding one team, it's nonsense.

The clear point is they’re not being funded on a per capita basis. On a per capita basis the rest of Leinster is getting twice what dublin is, in spite of Connellans long stream of disingenuous misinformation in a national newspaper.

My own view is simple and already repeatedly given. Games dev is very distinct from elite and inter county the only connect should be in terms of maybe bringing more people into the process that elite might eventually interact with. The aim is to give every child an opportunity to participate and learn skills. As such it has to be done with a starting point of funding per child. People looking to take funding away from kids so their county can win a bit of tin really don’t get very much respect from me.

And before someone says what about cork (they’ll move on to what about Antrim or Laois soon enough). We have a very competent and knowledgable poster here who can talk to what cork are and have being doing. They’ve already given their perspective and unless someone has the detailed knowledge of the working of Munster GAA to contradict them I’m happy to run with that. They have also correctly identified the begrudgery and small mindedness at the heart of the anti dublin argument

SheepsClothing

tritium wrote: »

The clear point is they’re not being funded on a per capita basis. On a per capita basis the rest of Leinster is getting twice what dublin is, in spite of Connellans long stream of disingenuous misinformation in a national newspaper.

My own view is simple and already repeatedly given. Games dev is very distinct from elite and inter county the only connect should be in terms of maybe bringing more people into the process that elite might eventually interact with. The aim is to give every child an opportunity to participate and learn skills. As such it has to be done with a starting point of funding per child. People looking to take funding away from kids so their county can win a bit of tin really don’t get very much respect from me.

And before someone says what about cork (they’ll move on to what about Antrim or Laois soon enough). We have a very competent and knowledgable poster here who can talk to what cork are and have being doing. They’ve already given their perspective and unless someone has the detailed knowledge of the working of Munster GAA to contradict them I’m happy to run withless that. They have also correctly identified the begrudgery and small mindedness at the heart of the anti dublin argument

There is no reason to divorce Games Development Funding from outcomes in the elite end of the sport.

Every kid brought into the sport by a GDO is feeding the elite end of the sport.

Every volunteer coach trained by a GDO is feeding the elite end of the sport.

Every penny that doesn't need to spent on grass roots development, is money that can be pumped into elite senior and underage teams.

ooter

SheepsClothing wrote: »

If Dublin want to be allocated funding on a per capita basis, they should be fielding multiple teams to support all those people being funded. You can't receive the funding of a province while fielding one team, it's nonsense.

If the funding is for 5-14 year olds there are no county teams to field.

the kelt

SheepsClothing wrote: »

If Dublin want to be allocated funding on a per capita basis, they should be fielding multiple teams to support all those people being funded. You can't receive the funding of a province while fielding one team, it's nonsense.

Exactly.

You cant just fund one county to the level of an entire province , its not practical.

If you want to fund on a per capita basis then you have more teams, its not rocket science really. 20% of the population being represented by just one team and funded based on a per capita basis.

Its unfortunate for Dublin really, not their fault but it is what it is.

Biggest population by far + most money from GAA + ability for bigger sponsorship + vast majority of games at home = Domination.

I can understand Dublin supporters not caring about the game itself outside of Dublin, why would or should they, hence arguing against being split, against funding being an issue etc, sure why would a turkey vote for Christmas.

Turning professional of course is a natural next step if something isnt done, that imho will end up in Dublin being split in more than 2 or even 4. The birth of professional super clubs could end the GAA as we know it the way things are going. With complete dominance people will stop watching, people will stop going, even in Dublin itself there are so many talented footballers who will never wear a county jersey.

People laugh at the idea of a pro or semi pro club competition but ignore whats staring them in the face. Already we have not only Dublins best but many of the countrys best playing club football in Dublin.

Not only that but theres been a huge upsurge in TV coverage of the club games even before the pandemic. Im involved down here in Wexford and i can tell ye eyebrows were raised when over €60k was raised from streaming club games for example last year. Ive been far more entertained watching Dublin Club games than watching the Dublin county team and if most people are honest they will say the same. Some of the Dublin Club games ive watched have been serious games of football, which would i pay €5 to watch, entertaining club game or the Dubs putting 20 points over another County team? No contest.

In the not too distant future splitting Dublin in 2 or 4 could be minor in comparison.

Enquiring

ShyMets wrote: »

Thanks for taking the time to reply. So in essence the Task Force would plan the funding needed in each county.

Now as each county will want to maximize funding is there not a danger that task forces will inflate the level of funding needed.

So then there would need to be vetting structure and a cap on total spending. And to ensure teams can not spend more you would be agreeable to a ban of county teams privately raising money

I do disagree regarding population. Some counties because of their low population numbers will never truly be competitive. Yes you can improve standards but lack of numbers will tell in the end

Well over 20 counties have won provincials since the 90's. Monaghan with 60,000 are a good example of competing with a small population in football.

The task force would present their findings but the ultimate decision on the level of resources would rest with HQ. If in doubt or resources are tight, side with the smaller counties.

The release of accounts for last year and the huge loses have brought county spends into question. It looks like action is been taken in terms of spend on inter county teams. The same needs to be taken in all areas. So yes, private donations etc need to be regulated. Counties can't be allowed to use finance gained elsewhere to gain an advantage.

I think with increased funding, clubs structures will improve hugely in many counties, participation will increase, standards will increase and our inter county games will hopefully see an increase in competitive counties. I think hurling and ladies football and camógie will see the biggest benefit.

ShyMets

the kelt wrote: »

Exactly.



Turning professional of course is a natural next step if something isnt done, that imho will end up in Dublin being split in more than 2 or even 4. The birth of professional super clubs could end the GAA as we know it the way things are going. With complete dominance people will stop watching, people will stop going, even in Dublin itself there are so many talented footballers who will never wear a county jersey.

People laugh at the idea of a pro or semi pro club competition but ignore whats staring them in the face. Already we have not only Dublins best but many of the countrys best playing club football in Dublin.

.

Good post. I think the seeds of a semi pro game have already been sown. Within ten years I wouldn't be surprised to see some semi pro element in the game.

Your correct. Splitting Dublin will be small beer compared to the challenges that will bring

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

People looking to take funding away from kids so their county can win a bit of tin really don’t get very much respect from me.

And before someone says what about cork (they’ll move on to what about Antrim or Laois soon enough). We have a very competent and knowledgable poster here who can talk to what cork are and have being doing. They’ve already given their perspective and unless someone has the detailed knowledge of the working of Munster GAA to contradict them I’m happy to run with that. They have also correctly identified the begrudgery and small mindedness at the heart of the anti dublin argument

You and the defenders of the financial disparity are the only ones who have argued that it's ok to deprive children of development funding. Your claim is that it was ok for one county to receive huge resources in this area while everyone else got very little for 2 decades.

I believe you are referring to a poster who used incorrect metrics to measure the funding distribution and then made a quick exit from the thread. Would you mind sharing with us all why Cork gained access to fractions of the number of coaches available to Dublin?

ooter

I hate to bring it up again but cork gaa received €50m in funding from the gaa for the redevelopment of PUC, it's hard to entertain suggestions they were hard done by when it comes to the level of GDF they've received.

ShyMets

Enquiring wrote: »

Well over 20 counties have won provincials since the 90's. Monaghan with 60,000 are a good example of competing with a small population in football.

The task force would present their findings but the ultimate decision on the level of resources would rest with HQ. If in doubt or resources are tight, side with the smaller counties.

The release of accounts for last year and the huge loses have brought county spends into question. It looks like action is been taken in terms of spend on inter county teams. The same needs to be taken in all areas. So yes, private donations etc need to be regulated. Counties can't be allowed to use finance gained elsewhere to gain an advantage.

I think with increased funding, clubs structures will improve hugely in many counties, participation will increase, standards will increase and our inter county games will hopefully see an increase in competitive counties. I think hurling and ladies football and camógie will see the biggest benefit.

Monaghan are an excellant example but they are a basically a single code county.

Under your proposals they would need to allocate a proportion of funding to Hurling. A potential danger is that they could start to regress at football.

While you're proposal may lead to an increase in standards in both codes in a county. We will not get to a point where all counties will be competitive in both. The numbers simply aren't there in lost counties

Enquiring

ShyMets wrote: »

Monaghan are an excellant example but they are a basically a single code county.

Under your proposals they would need to allocate a proportion of funding to Hurling. A potential danger is that they could start to regress at football.

While you're proposal may lead to an increase in standards in both codes in a county. We will not get to a point where all counties will be competitive in both. The numbers simply aren't there in lost counties

I have no doubt that things will be difficult but dual counties with small populations have competed for All Ireland's in both in the past. I'm not saying that every county will start competing for All Ireland's every year. They'll just be given an equal opportunity to compete.

That's what Gaelic games should be about.

ShyMets

Enquiring wrote: »

I have no doubt that things will be difficult but dual counties with small populations have competed for All Ireland's in both in the past. I'm not saying that every county will start competing for All Ireland's every year. They'll just be given an equal opportunity to compete.

That's what Gaelic games should be about.

In terms of duel counties with small population competing for All Irelands the only one I can think of in the last 40 years is Offaly. And they've in decline in football since the late 90's and in Hurling in the mid 00's.

So I think we can forget about most counties being truly duel.

Just to clarify under proposal would you scrape the current Hurling tiered competition structures

Enquiring

ShyMets wrote: »

In terms of duel counties with small population competing for All Irelands the only one I can think of in the last 40 years is Offaly. And they've in decline in football since the late 90's and in Hurling in the mid 00's.

So I think we can forget about most counties being truly duel.

Just to clarify under proposal would you scrape the current Hurling tiered competition structures

That's it and I believe Offaly have been under funded for that period. Offaly hurling was a long way ahead of Dublin hurling for example, look at the effect funding has had there. Tipperary winning the Munster title last year gives a clear sign that competing in the supposed weaker game in a county is very possible.

But as I said, every county challenging for titles every year would be very unlikely.

The aim in hurling would be moving as many counties up to the top tier as possible. The aim in football would be keeping teams in the top tier.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

You and the defenders of the financial disparity are the only ones who have argued that it's ok to deprive children of development funding. Your claim is that it was ok for one county to receive huge resources in this area while everyone else got very little for 2 decades.

I believe you are referring to a poster who used incorrect metrics to measure the funding distribution and then made a quick exit from the thread. Would you mind sharing with us all why Cork gained access to fractions of the number of coaches available to Dublin?

Actually I’m referring to a poster who schooled you with their detailed knowledge of the GAA and it’s processes. It might have been in your interests to pay attention instead of trying to shoot them down to keep pushing your broken agenda.

We’ve actually covered the why on the number of coaches so many times at this stage. Again you’d benefit from listening rather than just shouting people down. One more time so

No one is disputing dublin got an excess number of gdos. It was transparent for everyone from the start of the dublin plans and everyone bought into it including the reasons for it. It’s been detailed and accounted for and openly transparent in a way no GAA scheme before or since has been. The GAA decided to trial a change of approach because county boards had been very poor at managing games development money. Hence there was a massive level of oversight applied.

Under the scheme, the GAA agreed to half fund gdos with the clubs funding the other half. The gdos role wasn’t to support the clubs it was to be a gdo same as elsewhere. The size of clubs in dublins, driven by lack of playing space and population density meant this made sense. Under this the GAA are currently paying for the equivalent of the cost of half the coaches with clubs paying the rest. My take as you’ll see below is if clubs spend their own money good luck to them, it’s no different than buying a pitch or building a clubhouse, except in Dublin buying a pitch is generally financially out of reach. Even allowing for the clubs own spend however the number actually funded by the GAA is higher than the 6 in some counties. Why? In some cases it’s simple scale - you need more coaches to promote the game to and coach 168k kids than 12k kids- frankly that’s not rocket science. Cork with their population may feel aggrieved,-with 40% of dublins population they might expect more, and if a co funding model was applied then pro rata they get get about 26 coaches and pay for half of them themselves. Certainly the clubs finding funding to do their bit has helped here, increasing resources, and indeed even the GAA were surprised at the level of buy in based on Leinster council minutes. That said, and has been pointed out, clubs everywhere were equally free to spend their own money similarly. It may have meant a pooling of resource (as the dublin clubs pooled resources with the gd plans) or even an increase in subs, to the level dublins club members pay. Individual clubs would need to explain their choices here. Certainly the cost structure is different however for example in terms of land ownership.

As has been pointed out a scheme like this would take years to be seen to work or not, with a risk associated- doing this nationwide from the off would be daft. However it’s been conceded that it could have maybe have been rolled out 2-4 years sooner, and that would have led to rebalancing from say 2014 instead of 2017. Personally I’d say 10 years to see the proof a project like this works feels closer to the right number than the 15 that happened, though there’s an argument either way. It’s notable that back in 2014-2017 however few if anyone seemed to be raising this point. That’said the GAA have rolled it out in Leinster since 2017. Leinster excluding dublin currently gets about twice the dublin allocation, supporting 118 games development personnel. As has been pointed out this level of funding isn’t just for the east Leinster project, (running for the last number of years) counties. In parallel with this we’ve seen the scaling back of dublins funding.

So why haven’t cork availed of the east Leinster project. The simple answer is they’re not in Leinster. Certainly a slice of gd funding is made available to Munster but I don’t have insight as to how the Munster council drive their business and I don’t see the point of digging through their minutes when you have no interest in the detail therein. Rebel Girl might be able to give a view but I’d be surprised if cork aren’t well able to argue for a project at provincial council if they feel it necessary and beneficial.

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

Actually I’m referring to a poster who schooled you with their detailed knowledge of the GAA and it’s processes. It might have been in your interests to pay attention instead of trying to shoot them down to keep pushing your broken agenda.

We’ve actually covered the why on the number of coaches so many times at this stage. Again you’d benefit from listening rather than just shouting people down. One more time so

No one is disputing dublin got an excess number of gdos. It was transparent for everyone from the start of the dublin plans and everyone bought into it including the reasons for it. It’s been detailed and accounted for and openly transparent in a way no GAA scheme before or since has been. The GAA decided to trial a change of approach because county boards had been very poor at managing games development money. Hence there was a massive level of oversight applied.

Under the scheme, the GAA agreed to half fund gdos with the clubs funding the other half. The gdos role wasn’t to support the clubs it was to be a gdo same as elsewhere. The size of clubs in dublins, driven by lack of playing space and population density meant this made sense. Under this the GAA are currently paying for the equivalent of the cost of half the coaches with clubs paying the rest. My take as you’ll see below is if clubs spend their own money good luck to them, it’s no different than buying a pitch or building a clubhouse, except in Dublin buying a pitch is generally financially out of reach. Even allowing for the clubs own spend however the number actually funded by the GAA is higher than the 6 in some counties. Why? In some cases it’s simple scale - you need more coaches to promote the game to and coach 168k kids than 12k kids- frankly that’s not rocket science. Cork with their population may feel aggrieved,-with 40% of dublins population they might expect more, and if a co funding model was applied then pro rata they get get about 26 coaches and pay for half of them themselves. Certainly the clubs finding funding to do their bit has helped here, increasing resources, and indeed even the GAA were surprised at the level of buy in based on Leinster council minutes. That said, and has been pointed out, clubs everywhere were equally free to spend their own money similarly. It may have meant a pooling of resource (as the dublin clubs pooled resources with the gd plans) or even an increase in subs, to the level dublins club members pay. Individual clubs would need to explain their choices here. Certainly the cost structure is different however for example in terms of land ownership.

As has been pointed out a scheme like this would take years to be seen to work or not, with a risk associated- doing this nationwide from the off would be daft. However it’s been conceded that it could have maybe have been rolled out 2-4 years sooner. That’said the GAA have rolled it out in Leinster. Leinster excluding dublin currently gets about twice the dublin allocation, supporting 118 games development personnel. As has been pointed out this level of funding isn’t just for the east Leinster project, (running for the last number of years) counties. In parallel with this we’ve seen the scaling back of dublins funding.

So why haven’t cork availed of the east Leinster project. The simple answer is they’re not in Leinster. Certainly a slice of gd funding is made available to Munster but I don’t have insight as to how the Munster council drive their business and I don’t see the point of digging through their minutes when you have no interest in the detail therein. Rebel Girl might be able to give a view but I’d be surprised if cork aren’t well able to argue for a project at provincial council if they feel it necessary and beneficial.

The poster was using incorrect metrics and made a swift exit while making allegations of begrudgery without being able to back it up, similar to yourself.

1. The plan was drawn up and funded for Dublin. It's strange how many Dublin supporters are unaware of where the plan originated, how long it has been in operation and how much has been involved.

2. So as I suggested, it's only the defenders of the funding disparity who are ok with depriving children of access to coaches. As has been shown, every county has its own issues and many were in a worse state than Dublin. Depriving other counties in favour of Dublin was disgraceful and completely unjustified.

3. This was a Dublin only scheme. Dublin clubs weren't told to go pay for their own coaches. If land is such an issue for Dublin clubs, why are the Dublin county board spending millions on elite developments?

4. The funding wasn't distributed on a population basis. Every county received in and around the same. Leitrim, Cork, Antrim, Carlow. Only Dublin were way out in front. These are facts, they will always defeat your supposition. So you have failed to explain why it's ok for Dublin to get many multiples of the coaches available to Cork.

5. Again, you can try to ignore that the scheme began in 2002 if you want but facts again will win out. The funding improved standards in Dublin in a very short period of time. You're still adding in administrative staff into figures for Leinster, the reason for that is obvious.

So once again you have failed to justify why Dublin were and are so over funded in comparison with Cork or any other county. You have failed to provide any evidence of your claim that it was suggested that it's ok for other counties to have high income levels and you have failed to explain how we can have fair competitions with Dublin having an income of 5 and 6 million above most other counties.

It's a familiar theme at this stage. You make posts lacking in evidence and I destroy them with facts.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

The poster was using incorrect metrics and made a swift exit while making allegations of begrudgery without being able to back it up, similar to yourself.

1. The plan was drawn up and funded for Dublin. It's strange how many Dublin supporters are unaware of where the plan originated, how long it has been in operation and how much has been involved.

2. So as I suggested, it's only the defenders of the funding disparity who are ok with depriving children of access to coaches. As has been shown, every county has its own issues and many were in a worse state than Dublin. Depriving other counties in favour of Dublin was disgraceful and completely unjustified.

3. This was a Dublin only scheme. Dublin clubs weren't told to go pay for their own coaches. If land is such an issue for Dublin clubs, why are the Dublin county board spending millions on elite developments?

4. The funding wasn't distributed on a population basis. Every county received in and around the same. Leitrim, Cork, Antrim, Carlow. Only Dublin were way out in front. These are facts, they will always defeat your supposition. So you have failed to explain why it's ok for Dublin to get many multiples of the coaches available to Cork.

5. Again, you can try to ignore that the scheme began in 2002 if you want but facts again will win out. The funding improved standards in Dublin in a very short period of time. You're still adding in administrative staff into figures for Leinster, the reason for that is obvious.

So once again you have failed to justify why Dublin were and are so over funded in comparison with Cork or any other county. You have failed to provide any evidence of your claim that it was suggested that it's ok for other counties to have high income levels and you have failed to explain how we can have fair competitions with Dublin having an income of 5 and 6 million above most other counties.

It's a familiar theme at this stage. You make posts lacking in evidence and I destroy them with facts.

Wow you’re getting increasingly desperate at this point. Losing this badly must be hurting. The poster schooled you good and proper. Once again when the facts don’t sit with your agenda youve attempted to rewrite the reality to suit

Unfortunately for you (and Connellan) people are well aware at this stage of the looseness of the facts you provide. The hiding away of millions in funding, the slanting and exaggeration of figures for effect (was it 100 coaches in dublins you claimed) the unwillingness to engage on the current expansion of funding that’s helping many counties hugely, based on lessons learned when the scheme was tried in dublin. The vast resources enjoyed by the likes of Mayo and Kerry, comparable to dublin and greater than many of their peers.

I’ve said repeatedly the split won’t happen and the arguments of people like Connellan and yourself are one of the reasons. They take an issue that the GAA should be and is addressing and use it to drive a paper thin agenda that most people see right through

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

Wow you’re getting increasingly desperate at this point. Losing this badly must be hurting. The poster schooled you good and proper. Once again when the facts don’t sit with your agenda youve attempted to rewrite the reality to suit

Unfortunately for you (and Connellan) people are well aware at this stage of the looseness of the facts you provide. The hiding away of millions in funding, the slanting and exaggeration of figures for effect (was it 100 coaches in dublins you claimed) the unwillingness to engage on the current expansion of funding that’s helping many counties hugely, based on lessons learned when the scheme was tried in dublin. The vast resources enjoyed by the likes of Mayo and Kerry, comparable to dublin and greater than many of their peers.

I’ve said repeatedly the split won’t happen and the arguments of people like Connellan and yourself are one of the reasons. They take an issue that the GAA should be and is addressing and use it to drive a paper thin agenda that most people see right through

You can't answer a single question put to you, the other poster had to slink of when corrected. If this is the strength of the defence of the funding disparity, then those in favour of change are in a very strong position.

ShyMets

Enquiring wrote: »

You can't answer a single question put to you, the other poster had to slink of when corrected. If this is the strength of the defence of the funding disparity, then those in favour of change are in a very strong position.

As you're all about fairness its only fair to acknowledge that you have a flair for refusing to answer certain questions put directly to you

TCP/IP

ShyMets wrote: »

As you're all about fairness its only fair to acknowledge that you have a flair for refusing to answer certain questions put directly to you

Don't waste your breath he is great at ignoring questions asked of him. Troll springs to mind.

ArielAtom

ShyMets wrote: »

As you're all about fairness its only fair to acknowledge that you have a flair for refusing to answer certain questions put directly to you

The ultimate in deflection and whataboutery. But when your argument is busted and you have been schooled that is what you are reduced to. Won't confirm county allegiance or is ashamed of their roots, changes the goalposts on any point that they are corrected on. The line of argument has changed more time than Madonna re-invented herself. I admire your staying power in attempting to debate.

Enquiring

ShyMets wrote: »

As you're all about fairness its only fair to acknowledge that you have a flair for refusing to answer certain questions put directly to you

I have answered all questions in relation to the topic of the thread, questions with the specific aim of deflection, less so.

But the main difference here and the only important thing in relation to this funding topic; there are questions that those opposed to the split CAN'T answer. It's not a choice, they are just unable to answer.

Enquiring

ArielAtom wrote: »

The ultimate in deflection and whataboutery. But when your argument is busted and you have been schooled that is what you are reduced to. Won't confirm county allegiance or is ashamed of their roots, changes the goalposts on any point that they are corrected on. The line of argument has changed more time than Madonna re-invented herself. I admire your staying power in attempting to debate.

You can have a go at answering some questions if you want. I'll give you two.

Can you explain why Cork with a similar amount of youth teams and players and a far wider area to cover have access to fractions of the number of coaches that Dublin have?

Can you try to justify why you think it's ok for Dublin to have income levels of 5 and 6 million more than most other counties without using whataboutery?

RoyalCelt

Dessie Farrell no longer in favour of provincial system.

ShyMets

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Dessie Farrell no longer in favour of provincial system.

There is a case to be made for it. And he's not the only manager who has questioned wheatear the Championship structure should change