The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

Dots1982

D9Male wrote: »

This post from me was (rightly) moved from the GAA changes thread, so I am reposting it here.

I think your post is accurate.

I think the funding issue has an effect but it is a small factor in explaining Dublin’s dominance.

The funding was largely a financial decision not a player development one. All those kids getting coaching; their parents pay memberships for the kids. This brings in money to clubs that dwarves the salaries paid to GDOs.

I think this point is completely missed when talking about the sums paid in grants to Dublin.

blanch152

Happyilylost wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/dublin-football-stars-commanding-hefty-fees-for-promotional-appearances-38193584.html

Fair enough, but as I said, I have only met them at numerous charity events where they were appearing for no fee.

If a few companies want to pay them for their time, that is no different to the way that jobs are given to county players around the country all the time, and have been for decades.

rebel girl 15

Dots1982 wrote: »

I think your post is accurate.

I think the funding issue has an effect but it is a small factor in explaining Dublin’s dominance.

The funding was largely a financial decision not a player development one. All those kids getting coaching; their parents pay memberships for the kids. This brings in money to clubs that dwarves the salaries paid to GDOs.

I think this point is completely missed when talking about the sums paid in grants to Dublin.

I picked one random club in Dublin - adult membership is €180 per year, family membership, one adult with three kids playing is €450 per year.

Forget grants - that’s where Dublin clubs are making their momey

grbear

I've said it before on here but the time to start addressing the level of funding Dublin receive was when they signed their first big deal with AIG. If the GAA started to correct course after that deal then it'd be near impossible for the current level of vitriol to be generated. Instead we are seemingly locked on a path where we are going to get a reactionary policy designed to placate those who have shouted loudest about the funding issue instead of one designed to help the development of the GAA.


Personally I think Dublin are one of a number of counties who should be receiving much less than the national average purely because they should be able to generate so much commercial revenue due to the size of their fanbase and also the amount of large businesses in their county. It's something Dublin are already making great progress on thanks to Tomas Quinn's appointment and I believe is something other counties should be replicating.

Late this year, maybe early next, I think central council/Croke Park should go to the counties a tier down from Dublin, basically Cork, Limerick, Galway and maybe a few more and tell them that they will be given funding to employ a commercial manager like Tomas Quinn until 2025. The flipside of that is that their games development funding will be cut from 2021 onwards. That'll eventually free up a lot of money which can de diverted either to increasing the development funding in other counties or spending on infrastructure like the new stadium projects in Meath, Kildare, Antrim, Louth, Waterford etc.

gormdubhgorm

Happyilylost wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/dublin-football-stars-commanding-hefty-fees-for-promotional-appearances-38193584.html

Martin Breheny is always so upbeat in his articles what breath a breath of fresh air the man is. :rolleyes:
Plus from the tone of the article it is based on ONE Dublin representative of ONE player.
The headline then magically was titled 'Dublin players'
Brehany is the same fella who said that the fans were cheated in the Tyrone v Dublin game.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=110884557


I enjoyed it faces of smiling fans in his own article!
It was jammed - all around me enjoyed it Tyrone and Dublin fans.

Breheny NEVER has anything positive to say about anything - maybe that is how he gets his kicks Or ignores that big ulcer he has.
The guy does not have much credibility as a journalist given his track record imo.

Dots1982

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

I picked one random club in Dublin - adult membership is €180 per year, family membership, one adult with three kids playing is €450 per year.

Forget grants - that’s where Dublin clubs are making their momey

I also crunched numbers on the Glasnevin superclub Na Fianna. There are 400 nursery members 5-7 year old and their membership fee is 95 euro a kid. The total taken in from these little kids wouldnt be far off covering the salary of a GDO in itself.

The problem is that some think if this funding is transferred to rural areas that it will magically close the gap. It won’t.

gormdubhgorm

grbear wrote: »

I've said it before on here but the time to start addressing the level of funding Dublin receive was when they signed their first big deal with AIG. If the GAA started to correct course after that deal then it'd be near impossible for the current level of vitriol to be generated. Instead we are seemingly locked on a path where we are going to get a reactionary policy designed to placate those who have shouted loudest about the funding issue instead of one designed to help the development of the GAA.


Personally I think Dublin are one of a number of counties who should be receiving much less than the national average purely because they should be able to generate so much commercial revenue due to the size of their fanbase and also the amount of large businesses in their county. It's something Dublin are already making great progress on thanks to Tomas Quinn's appointment and I believe is something other counties should be replicating.

Late this year, maybe early next, I think central council/Croke Park should go to the counties a tier down from Dublin, basically Cork, Limerick, Galway and maybe a few more and tell them that they will be given funding to employ a commercial manager like Tomas Quinn until 2025. The flipside of that is that their games development funding will be cut from 2021 onwards. That'll eventually free up a lot of money which can de diverted either to increasing the development funding in other counties or spending on infrastructure like the new stadium projects in Meath, Kildare, Antrim, Louth, Waterford etc.

And yet - Dublin are actually being underfunded according to industry analysts

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/analyst-claims-dubs-actually-being-underfunded-939277.html

rebel girl 15

blanch152 wrote: »

Fair enough, but as I said, I have only met them at numerous charity events where they were appearing for no fee.

If a few companies want to pay them for their time, that is no different to the way that jobs are given to county players around the country all the time, and have been for decades.

The article very specifically states for promotional appearances for companies - as you have said it’s very different to appearing for charities etc which I’ve heard of they do many for nothing and actually don’t need to be asked and go and offer their services and their profile to certain charity events. The Dublin board have used their jersey to promote different charities at times - cancer charity and the 20x20 initiative.

It’s a form of sponsorship and endorsement for the company products - fair play if companies will pay them!

rebel girl 15

Dots1982 wrote: »

I also crunched numbers on the Glasnevin superclub Na Fianna. There are 400 nursery members 5-7 year old and their membership fee is 95 euro a kid. The total taken in from these little kids wouldnt be far off covering the salary of a GDO in itself.

The problem is that some think if this funding is transferred to rural areas that it will magically close the gap. It won’t.

That last line - 100% agree.

kilns

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

I picked one random club in Dublin - adult membership is €180 per year, family membership, one adult with three kids playing is €450 per year.

Forget grants - that’s where Dublin clubs are making their momey

“Making their money”? You seem to be implying that Dublin clubs are profit oriented

rebel girl 15

kilns wrote: »

“Making their money”? You seem to be implying that Dublin clubs are profit oriented

Poor choice of words on my part - what I meant is that is where clubs are getting their funding, from their members as opposed to being dependant on grants

ClanofLams

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

And yet - Dublin are actually being underfunded according to industry analysts

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/analyst-claims-dubs-actually-being-underfunded-939277.html

A Dublin supporter on a Dublin podcast used one metric against one county to make this ludicrous argument.

The figures have been posted repeatedly, Dublin get almost thirteen times what Cork get, when the population difference is two and a half times. There has been no justification for such financial disparity put forward.

StupidLikeAFox

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

I picked one random club in Dublin - adult membership is €180 per year, family membership, one adult with three kids playing is €450 per year.

Forget grants - that’s where Dublin clubs are making their momey

We have a situation where the richest clubs are receiving the most money and support from the GAA. How can that be fair?

kilns

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

We have a situation where the richest clubs are receiving the most money and support from the GAA. How can that be fair?

You cannot just take it as simply as that really however, take for example a club like Kilmacud who are huge and a 100 member rural club. The costs to obviously run each club would be vastly different for various reasons

It would be like saying why does Germany who are much richer than Ireland, get more funding from the EU, its not fair

blanch152

ClanofLams wrote: »

A Dublin supporter on a Dublin podcast used one metric against one county to make this ludicrous argument.

The figures have been posted repeatedly, Dublin get almost thirteen times what Cork get, when the population difference is two and a half times. There has been no justification for such financial disparity put forward.

Cork have suffered on game development funding because Central Council has been forced to bail out Pairc Ui Chaoimh. If they hadn't made such a mess of that ground redevelopment, they would have had a better chance of getting more GDO funding. Like it or not, there is a real perception that Cork are particularly bad at financial management.

gormdubhgorm

ClanofLams wrote: »

A Dublin supporter on a Dublin podcast used one metric against one county to make this ludicrous argument.

The figures have been posted repeatedly, Dublin get almost thirteen times what Cork get, when the population difference is two and a half times. There has been no justification for such financial disparity put forward.

What about number of clubs etc etc.
The naysayers seem to do an awful lot of cherry picking.
Nothing is all laid out.
How all the money is spent - different economies of scale etc.

BonnieSituation

blanch152 wrote: »

Cork have suffered on game development funding because Central Council has been forced to bail out Pairc Ui Chaoimh. If they hadn't made such a mess of that ground redevelopment, they would have had a better chance of getting more GDO funding. Like it or not, there is a real perception that Cork are particularly bad at financial management.

I don't even think its perception. They are bad at managing funding.

I actually would like RebelGirl's insight here on things like that. I was badgering Frank about Corks and Galway for the last few days, but she'd definitely know more about them down South.
@RG, is there any change going on wrt funding in Cork since the GAA stepped in on Páirc de Frank?

ClanofLams

blanch152 wrote: »

Cork have suffered on game development funding because Central Council has been forced to bail out Pairc Ui Chaoimh. If they hadn't made such a mess of that ground redevelopment, they would have had a better chance of getting more GDO funding. Like it or not, there is a real perception that Cork are particularly bad at financial management.

How did that make an impact from figures from 2007-2018??

Also that would sound like an incredibly small minded decision. Your country board screwed up so we’re going to punish kids in the county.

gormdubhgorm

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

We have a situation where the richest clubs are receiving the most money and support from the GAA. How can that be fair?

But look at the numbers of players they have do you think this money is spent drinking at the bar or something?
Cost of facilities and cost of living in Dublin etc
None of this seems to be remembered - in the look at all the money dublin/dublin clubs are getting.'

When the question really should be HOW are they spending thier money what are thier structures.
Also WHAT can other clubs learn from Dublin clubs - can it be copied on a smaller scale?
Other counties should be learning from the best in the country and sending thier reps down there to learn how to operate, plan and structure to get the maximum benefit out of what you got.

Also Mullinaughta and Rathnew have beaten Kilmacud Crokes and Vinnies respectively.
St Brigids from Roscommon beat Ballymun.
Corofin are the top club in the country.

Maybe you could argue Dublin clubs are not getting enough money
- since if funding was the sole answer for success they would be winning the all-ireland club every year?

ToBeFrank123

The deflection from Dublin Posters is laughable. Pairc Ui Chaoimh issues rared their head lately as in last couple of years and after Dublin were exposed for financial doping.

That it should be used as a reason not to give increased gdf funds to every other county outside Dublin is pathetic and a new low in the debate.

Greed and nothing else is Dublins problem. They have super-rich clubs yet also want the lions share of gdf funds.

Dubs have no interest in fairness when it comes to funding, never had and never will. And since the GAA have buried their heads in the same sandpit as Dublin, nothing will change.

The GAA couldn't run a corner shop and if they did they'd run it into the ground like they did with gaelic football.

Thank god they haven't been able to destroy hurley. But give it a few years.

BonnieSituation

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The deflection from Dublin Posters is laughable. Pairc Ui Chaoimh issues rared their head lately as in last couple of years and after Dublin were exposed for financial doping.

That it should be used as a reason not to give increased gdf funds to every other county outside Dublin is pathetic and a new low in the debate.

Greed and nothing else is Dublins problem. They have super-rich clubs yet also want the lions share of gdf funds.

Dubs have no interest in fairness when it comes to funding, never had and never will. And since the GAA have buried their heads in the same sandpit as Dublin, nothing will change.

The GAA couldn't run a corner shop and if they did they'd run it into the ground like they did with gaelic football.

Thank god they haven't been able to destroy hurley. But give it a few years.

Lots of opinion and "spose'das" in there.

Do you think that the financial mismanagement in Cork and Galway happened in a vacuum? You seem rather soft on that scandalous misuse of public and gaa funding.

If you knew anything you would have seen reams of critical posts about PUC in the dedicated threads on here over the years. But that fact is too convenient for your bias I guess.

The money has to come from somewhere. Why should the Cork and Galway CBs get away with being so crap with cash.

ClanofLams

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Lots of opinion and "spose'das" in there.

Do you think that the financial mismanagement in Cork and Galway happened in a vacuum? You seem rather soft on that scandalous misuse of public and gaa funding.

If you knew anything you would have seen reams of critical posts about PUC in the dedicated threads on here over the years. But that fact is too convenient for your bias I guess.

The money has to come from somewhere. Why should the Cork and Galway CBs get away with being so crap with cash.

Didn’t pairc ui chaoimh mainly happen in the last couple of years it did I miss something before that?
It seems a bit ridiculous to suggest that would impacted on development funding for 2007-2018.

bruschi

a couple of things.

the registered GAA members figure, of which Dublin has approximately 39,000 is based on all club members from underage through to adult. All members are registered through the one portal and the oft quoted rate per member is not based on adult members as some on here have tried insinuate, but overall members through all age groups.

This here, from the same year, to keep it clear. 2015. Registered juveniles in Dublin. No real issue over reliable figures. I'm not sure why anyone this it would be unreliable, all registered juveniles are allocated a unique GAA membership number.
https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/wehgbiitifzhopzeoepz.pdf

details the reach of Dublin children and those registered with clubs. Again, you can look at them either way. A growth in membership each year with great retention, or like gormdubhgorm stated previously, they have not made huge inroads into many areas. With a population of its size, to still only have similar playing numbers to Cork does tell the other side of the story. Why do we put the rate per capita on over 1.15 million inhabitants who dont play GAA? Any funding issued, goes to clubs. Therefore, it should be per registered members of clubs. It is the only way you can measure the growth and effectiveness of the coaching model used.

As to clubs financing themselves, they can indeed. But to add to this, they have been topped up massively by the GAA. So the richest clubs in the country are also getting the most coaching development funds in the country. That, makes little sense.

Lastly, as to clubs operating on a professional level. Well when there are over 70 full time employees directly working on behalf of clubs as their own sole employee, that is one aspect. Being able to give college bursary's to club members, having dedicated video analysis rooms, being able to draft in external county players to teams, facilities to hold conferences, events etc. These, bar one of them, are all great things to have and may seem like normal things to some in Dublin clubs, but they are far from normal for the vast majority of clubs outside of Dublin. Some, like for example, Ashbourne, Mallow, etc have some level of infrastructure to match and not all the above things are in all Dublin clubs, but first and foremost, the GDA/GDO/GPO in each club (that does have one) puts them a step above in professionalism than most clubs in Ireland.

And again, not that it needs to be said, but these arent bad things. Dublin, and its clubs, are making the most of all the resources there are to hand. The issue being, they got a serious leg up from the GAA central council on top of all that.

gormdubhgorm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The deflection from Dublin Posters is laughable. Pairc Ui Chaoimh issues rared their head lately as in last couple of years.

That it should be used as a reason not to give increased gdf funds to every other county outside Dublin is pathetic and a new low in the debate.

Greed and nothing else is Dublins problem. They have super-rich clubs yet also want the lions share of gdf funds.

Dubs have no interet in fairness when it comes to funding, never had and never will. And since the GAA have buried their heads in the same sandpit as Dublin, nothing will change.

These guys couldn't run a corner shop and if they did they'd run it into the ground like they did with gaelic football.

Thank god they haven't been able to destroy hurley. But give it a few years.

I think your main problem is not with the funding of Dublin - but with the fact Dublin are now successful and have gotten thier act together.
Your worry about hurling highlights this - a true gael would want a strong Dublin hurling team to keep the game alive in the country -spread it's gospel. But it might be symptomatic of the way non-traditional counties are treated in hurling by some in the GAA - second class citizens. But that is another story...

I assume in the decades of underachievement from the Dublin footballers in the 90s to 2010 - one AI struggling to win leinster you were delighted?
One Senior AI in the 80's only one minor 1984.
Youth was not focused on Dublin did not even enter u21 level!

For me I remember country cousins say - look at all the players and money Dublin have and they are shtill S*ite.
Kerry used to laugh at the Dubs - the whole country used to laugh at the players with notions who had done nothing to back it up.
It was real underachievement year, after year, after year.

The reality is Dublin should be dominating football by right at least 2-3 all-irelands a decade imo. - that is the mean I think

Beforehand they did not know thier arse from thier elbow.
Granted Dublin are overachieving now - but this is partly because other counties have regressed through no fault of Dublin's.

Surely you can admit that other counties let things slide?
And it makes Dublin's exceptional group of players look even more impressive - when contrasted side by side.

Beechwoodspark

Anyone attempting to deflect or spin on this thread I have the following message

You are fooling NOBODY and you better believe that as time goes on even fewer ppl will be prepared to even give you a fair hearing

ToBeFrank123

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I think your main problem is not with the funding of Dublin - but with the fact Dublin are now successful and have gotten thier act together.
I assume in the decades of underachievement from Dublin in the 90s to 2010 - one AI struggling to win leinster you were delighted?

More deflection. You simply ignored the point about Dublin clubs receiving funds despite already being super rich because they lied to the GAA that they were poor and needed help.

You ignored the ball and went straight for the man again.

Just stick to playing the ball if possible?

Why should I be delighted Dublin were losing then by the way. I couldn't have cared less if they were winning or not. The only thing that delighted me then was at least 4 or 5 counties including Dublin could challenge for a Leinster title.

You remember that concept - its called competitiveness.

But since Dublin were artificially financially doped in addition to raking in money from club members as well as huge sponsorship deals, the concept of competitiveness was stamped out. We can't be having competitiveness was the GAAs view. If Dublin aren't winning year in year out, GAA might collapse in the capital. Even a Dublin winning once every five years wasn't enough for them. They had to artificially alter the playing field.

What a mess.

As for counties not getting their house in order, Kildare have been decent in spells in the last 10 years, particularly under McGeeney. In any other era they would have won at least one Leinster championship. Not against a financially doped Dubs whose players have access to resources far in excess of others, from the age they first kick a ball.

Stop giving GDF funds to some of the Dublin super rich clubs. Its really that simple. Poorer Dublin clubs, no issue there. But subsidising rich clubs is complete madness.

odyssey06

The GAA are already adjusting the funding. A lot of the figures quoted in this thread are becoming out-dated, or were not fully accurate to begin with if they did not account for the provincial funding that Dublin does not receive.
https://www.the42.ie/gaa-dublin-funding-3217517-Feb2017/

In 2017, Dublin received 14% of the funding for games development. If that is 10% by 2020, does that seem unreasonable given Dublin's size?
And yes there is a disconnect between Dublin's population and registered players, but some of the funding if it is for games promotion and schools should have a per capita element and be ring fenced for same (rather than be used for conditioning coaches for senior players).

ClanofLams

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

What about number of clubs etc etc.
The naysayers seem to do an awful lot of cherry picking.
Nothing is all laid out.
How all the money is spent - different economies of scale etc.

An awful lot of cherry picking? The financials are there in black and white in terms of development funding.

I try to ensure everything I post is accurate. And there is some nonsense being posted by those against the current funding arrangements.

But Dublin posters are as guilty of putting up unsubstantiated stuff themselves. Yesterday Mayo players apparently were getting mileage traveling on bus, I posted a document from revenue which seems to demonstrate that is untrue.

Now the GAA don’t want to give Cork or Galway development funding because their county board made screw ups. We’re led to believe GAA officials are so narrow minded that they are in effect punishing kids in these areas by limiting funding for development because of mistakes made by county boards. This also somehow influenced Cork funding for 2007-2018 despite those stadium financial screw ups happening in the last couple of years.

Happyilylost

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Martin Breheny is always so upbeat in his articles what breath a breath of fresh air the man is. :rolleyes:
Plus from the tone of the article it is based on ONE Dublin representative of ONE player.
The headline then magically was titled 'Dublin players'
Brehany is the same fella who said that the fans were cheated in the Tyrone v Dublin game.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=110884557


I enjoyed it faces of smiling fans in his own article!
It was jammed - all around me enjoyed it Tyrone and Dublin fans.

Breheny NEVER has anything positive to say about anything - maybe that is how he gets his kicks Or ignores that big ulcer he has.
The guy does not have much credibility as a journalist given his track record imo.

Previous poster asked the question. I provided a link. Couldn't care less if they earned six thousand or six million. Just trying to help a brother out.

The more you know and all that jazz........

grbear

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

And yet - Dublin are actually being underfunded according to industry analysts

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/analyst-claims-dubs-actually-being-underfunded-939277.html

You've completely missed the point of my post.


In that Sean McGoldrick tweet everyone loves posting when the issue of Dublin's funding is discussed Cork, Limerick and Galway received €3.3million between them.

I can't speak with any real authority on the cases of Limerick and Cork but there's absolutely no doubt in my mind, especially given what came to light last year, that financial mismanagement ( which we'll charitably put down to incompetence) cost Galway more than the €970,000 they got in games development grants.

The instinctive reaction of a lot of people when they see the McGoldrick tweet and associated figures is to say that Dublin should be getting less and Galway getting more.

My point is that if proper structures were put in place with help from Croke Park then Galway would actually need less games development grants as they'd be able to generate that money within the county. The grant from Croke Park could then go to other counties with less ability to generate funds.

kilns

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

More deflection. You simply ignored the point about Dublin clubs receiving funds despite already being super rich because they lied to the GAA that they were poor and needed help.

are you being serious?:eek::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

riemann

It would seem a lot of Dublin fans are getting their panties in a twist as they are beginning to realise most people are and will judge this Dublin team as the result of financial doping, and quite possibly other forms of doping if rumors are to be believed.

They may as well have an asterix beside them.

Similar as to how Celtic and PSG win every year, and yet no one outside of their fan bases cares one iota. Also see Marseilles and Juventus. Oh and Lance Armstrong.

Sport is about many things; heart, skill, dedication, passion. Not how much money one has.

bruschi

odyssey06 wrote: »

The GAA are already adjusting the funding. A lot of the figures quoted in this thread are becoming out-dated, or were not fully accurate to begin with if they did not account for the provincial funding that Dublin does not receive.
https://www.the42.ie/gaa-dublin-funding-3217517-Feb2017/

In 2017, Dublin received 14% of the funding for games development. If that is 10% by 2020, does that seem unreasonable given Dublin's size?
And yes there is a disconnect between Dublin's population and registered players, but some of the funding if it is for games promotion and schools should have a per capita element and be ring fenced for same (rather than be used for conditioning coaches for senior players).

somewhat incorrect.

http://leinstergaa.ie/wp-content/uploads/sites/33/2018/01/Leinster-Accounts-1.pdf

On page 22 of this Leinster Council expendature list, you will see "Dublin Coaching Project" receives approx €240k in 2017. Given that the remaining 11 counties received anywhere from 150k to nearly 400k only, given that Dublin get this direct from Leinster, which conveniently does not get added to their sum total, it again shows another disparity.

rebel girl 15

To all those concerned and posting about “financial doping”

Can I ask - are you actually a member of the GAA, as in a member of a club?

Instead of beating your drum in here which you are more than welcome to do, I’d like to know what you are going to do about it? There are many posters seem to be hugely passionate and outraged about this issue, so what are you going to do? Are you going to bring a motion through your club about it?

gormdubhgorm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

More deflection. You simply ignored the point about Dublin clubs receiving funds despite already being super rich because they lied to the GAA that they were poor and needed help.

You ignored the ball and went straight for the man again.

Just stick to playing the ball if possible?

Why should I be delighted Dublin were losing then by the way. I couldn't have cared less if they were winning or not. The only thing that delighted me then was at least 4 or 5 counties including Dublin could challenge for a Leinster title.

You remember that concept - its called competitiveness.

But since Dublin were artificially financially doped in addition to raking in money from club members as well as huge sponsorship deals, the concept of competitiveness was stamped out. We can't be having competitiveness was the GAAs view. If Dublin aren't winning year in year out, GAA might collapse in the capital. Even a Dublin winning once every five years wasn't enough for them. They had to artificially alter the playing field.

What a mess.

As for counties not getting their house in order, Kildare have been decent in spells in the last 10 years, particularly under McGeeney. In any other era they would have won at least one Leinster championship. Not against a financially doped Dubs outfit though whose players have access to resources far in excess of what others from the age they first kick a ball.

Why aren't Dublin wining the all-ireland club year after year if funding is the sole reason for success.
Players can be 'brought' at club level plunkets tried and never won a Dublin Club title never mind a Leinster or AI club.

Parnells in Coolock infamously got money from the sale of land and squandered it.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/a-spectacular-reversal-of-fortune-28955015.html

That is a prime example of poor management.
Thankfully Dublin GAA as a whole is a bit better! Costello - Kettle etc.

'Funding' does not mean success it starts with good management, planning structure, good players, and a happy squad.

StupidLikeAFox

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Maybe you could argue Dublin clubs are not getting enough money
- since if funding was the sole answer for success they would be winning the all-ireland club every year?

Please don't put words in my mouth - I have never said this. I have said the opposite numerous times in fact.

The point I am trying to make is that Dublin are getting the most support from the GAA in terms of money and setting up structures, yet are the richest county with the most resources available to them. I would 100% expect to get the most money. Should they be getting over ten times what the next in the list are getting - absolutely not.

Another person here they said that there are 4000 registered members in their club. If the annual membership there is €150 thats €600k per year that this one club are making, in one year, off membership alone. That is roughly what Longford GAA received in development funding over an 11 year period between 2007 & 2018.

Weepsie

Thought I posted already.

To be honest , county boards need to have control taken away from them in many instances. A central plan to implement centres of excellence, coaching training and widespread facilities overhaul should be done.

Counties and clubs should look to share resources where possible anywhere sensible to give themselves as much of a chance at improving as possible.

Solutions to long commutes for training etc should be examined as more and more are not working in their county.

It would also hopefully remove some of the local politics out of county boards, though probably cause a whole other issue

ToBeFrank123

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

To all those concerned and posting about “financial doping”

Can I ask - are you actually a member of the GAA, as in a member of a club?

Instead of beating your drum in here which you are more than welcome to do, I’d like to know what you are going to do about it? There are many posters seem to be hugely passionate and outraged about this issue, so what are you going to do? Are you going to bring a motion through your club about it?

To be honest rebel, the GAA is so screwed up at the moment, and Dublin financial doping is just one issue among many, that one motion wouldn't help.

And then as soon as a motion is brought to HQ or publicised, you will get the usual, "ah they are just bitter", etc.

Really the reform needs to come from the top down.

gormdubhgorm

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Please don't put words in my mouth - I have never said this. I have said the opposite numerous times in fact.

The point I am trying to make is that Dublin are getting the most support from the GAA in terms of money and setting up structures, yet are the richest county with the most resources available to them. I would 100% expect to get the most money. Should they be getting over ten times what the next in the list are getting - absolutely not.

Another person here they said that there are 4000 registered members in their club. If the annual membership there is €150 thats €600k per year that this one club are making, in one year, off membership alone. That is roughly what Longford GAA received in development funding over an 11 year period between 2007 & 2018.

Again I say to look at Parnell's they brought players squandered money

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=24847.0

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/a-spectacular-reversal-of-fortune-28955015.html

Look at them now...


https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/gaa/gaelic-football/gaelic-football-news/club-ireland-winning-captain-cluxton-13323244

In fact Cluxton refused to play with the senior team when that era of the brought players came in (fair play to him)

Money does not guaranteed success - that is the moral of the story.

And if anything Dublin are underfunded. given it's level of expenses cost of living, player participation, economies of scale.
They are doing very well despite this at the moment good leadership, players good planning.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/how-pat-gilroy-put-the-financial-plans-in-place-to-begin-dublins-football-revolution-37366163.html

Beechwoodspark

riemann wrote: »

It would seem a lot of Dublin fans are getting their panties in a twist as they are beginning to realise most people are and will judge this Dublin team as the result of financial doping, and quite possibly other forms of doping if rumors are to be believed.

They may as well have an asterix beside them.

Similar as to how Celtic and PSG win every year, and yet no one outside of their fan bases cares one iota. Also see Marseilles and Juventus. Oh and Lance Armstrong.

Sport is about many things; heart, skill, dedication, passion. Not how much money one has.

This is very true

I said on another thread Dublin are in an echo chamber bubble.

They have no idea the level of disillusionment and disrespect their so called achievements are treated with outside Dublin

Ppl rightly have an asterisk beside all their wins in the 2010s due to the hugely unfair financial doping and of course their inherent population advantages.

And to think some ppl on here say we should be almost bowing and scraping to jim Gavin for how modest his public image is.

That’s all image ppl. PR bs. GAA Ppl are not eejits

bruschi

Weepsie wrote: »

Thought I posted already.

To be honest , county boards need to have control taken away from them in many instances. A central plan to implement centres of excellence, coaching training and widespread facilities overhaul should be done.

Counties and clubs should look to share resources where possible anywhere sensible to give themselves as much of a chance at improving as possible.

Solutions to long commutes for training etc should be examined as more and more are not working in their county.

It would also hopefully remove some of the local politics out of county boards, though probably cause a whole other issue

to some extent, that is already the case. All centres of excellence have to go through provincial council for approval and only get approved there. They cant go off willy nilly and build what they like. Well, they can, but they wont get any GAA funding for it.

Secondly, all coaching staff, GDA's and club GPO's are employees of the Leinster council. They are interviewed in Portlaoise and are reportable to Portlaoise. They are distributed then to their county and then club, but it all goes back to provincial council plans. It's up to counties to make applications for getting the funding for these through the council and why only 5 of 11 Leinster counties at the moment are availing of the set up.

Counties do set up things for training I'm sure. It's a long time now, but when I was in Dublin, we used to train in a location with another county set up. So it meant we didnt have to travel home nor them. It was good to have good numbers and quality training. The main coach was also Dublin based.

The politics in county boards, yes, another issue that could go on all year. Its why I'm not a particular fan of the political end of things at a county level and focus more on the coaching and development side of things.

D9Male

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

To be honest rebel, the GAA is so screwed up at the moment, and Dublin financial doping is just one issue among many, that one motion wouldn't help.

And then as soon as a motion is brought to HQ or publicised, you will get the usual, "ah they are just bitter", etc.

Really the reform needs to come from the top down.

I think the GAA is in vibrant health. I have been at GAA events in Armagh, Dublin, Wexford, Kilkenny, Cork, Kildare and Meath in the last year.

Every club is buzzing. Healthy, happy kids everywhere.

ArielAtom

Do all the posters on here ranting about GDO’s actually know what they do???
Do posters realise that Dublin’s funding has been cut?
Are any posters willing to come up with a solution or continue to whinge on an Internet forum?

ClanofLams

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Again I say to look at Parnell's they brought players squandered money

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=24847.0

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/a-spectacular-reversal-of-fortune-28955015.html

Look at them now...


https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/gaa/gaelic-football/gaelic-football-news/club-ireland-winning-captain-cluxton-13323244

In fact Cluxton refused to play with the senior team when that era of the brought players came in (fair play to him)

Money does not guaranteed success - that is the moral of the story.

And if anything Dublin are underfunded. given it's level of expenses cost of living, player participation, economies of scale.
They are doing very well despite this at the moment good leadership, players good planning.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/how-pat-gilroy-put-the-financial-plans-in-place-to-begin-dublins-football-revolution-37366163.html

It does not guarantee success but it can make a massive difference and be a substantial factor. It is a substantial factor in Dublin men’s and ladies footballers are enjoying their greatest decade ever, juvenile success significantly increased and Dublin county hurlers and club hurling teams transformed both in terms of competitiveness and success from where they were fifteen years ago.

Those sort of results across the board fifteen to twenty years after a massive increase in funding are not a coincidence and and reasonable Dublin supporter should be capable of acknowledging that.

Just as any reasonable GAA supporter from outside Dublin should be capable of acknowledging the extraordinary talent and ability being shown by the Dublin footballers currently.

kilns

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

This is very true

I said on another thread Dublin are in an echo chamber bubble.

They have no idea the level of disillusionment and disrespect their so called achievements are treated with outside Dublin

Ppl rightly have an asterisk beside all their wins in the 2010s due to the hugely unfair financial doping and of course their inherent population advantages.

And to think some ppl on here say we should be almost bowing and scraping to jim Gavin for how modest his public image is.

That’s all image ppl. PR bs. GAA Ppl are not eejits

So in real life he is a different person, willing to back that up?

gormdubhgorm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

To be honest rebel, the GAA is so screwed up at the moment, and Dublin financial doping is just one issue among many, that one motion wouldn't help.

And then as soon as a motion is brought to HQ or publicised, you will get the usual, "ah they are just bitter", etc.

Really the reform needs to come from the top down.

Deflecting again ... I asked you the very same question as rebel girl ages ago - you deflected then as well.
Basically you are just acting like a keyboard warrior with nothing to offer.
Ah sure there is no point in trying anyway! :eek:

Surely you are a better man than that?

If you put half as much effort into posting giving out about Dublin into your local club and brought a motion - think up real solutions - something might happen.

You are basically waiting for the ball to come to you, instead of getting involved in the play.

There are other posters on here much worse than you in fairness.
At least you do not have the nasty spiteful element that some seem to have - attacking Jim Gavin etc - in hypothetical made-up situations.
Which is laughable.
They also attack his character as if being humble was an affront to them!
How dare he be humble - look at him there being gracious in defeat/victory.
It disgusts certain posters.

rebel girl 15

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

To be honest rebel, the GAA is so screwed up at the moment, and Dublin financial doping is just one issue among many, that one motion wouldn't help.

And then as soon as a motion is brought to HQ or publicised, you will get the usual, "ah they are just bitter", etc.

Really the reform needs to come from the top down.

So you are a member of the GAA?

If there is this so called appetite for change as many on here claim, then that excuse is pathetic - “they are just bitter”. It can’t be claimed that there is outrage over this and then excuses trotted out - oh it won’t work. How do you know it won’t? Have you networked with other county delegates? There is a quote attributed to Margaret Mead that a lot of ye on here need to find if that’s the attitude others are taking.

I know it from personal experience it doesn’t take many people - took just two of us to enact huge change in a province when I was living here, once that started it lit the fire of change.

Soapbox away all you want on here - I completely respect anyone who will debate issues and then take action on their views, but you’ve lost my respect with that post - passing the buck saying the reform needs to come from top down. Maybe it does, but appetite for change at the top comes from the grassroots, not the other way around

Cilldara_2000

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

To all those concerned and posting about “financial doping”

Can I ask - are you actually a member of the GAA, as in a member of a club?

Instead of beating your drum in here which you are more than welcome to do, I’d like to know what you are going to do about it? There are many posters seem to be hugely passionate and outraged about this issue, so what are you going to do? Are you going to bring a motion through your club about it?

Motions from clubs can only change the rules. Which rule do you suggest should be amended to stop the funding imbalance?

gormdubhgorm

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Motions from clubs can only change the rules. Which rule do you suggest should be amended to stop the funding imbalance?

Not true - Mayo thinking of one

http://www.mayonews.ie/sports/33284-clubs-critical-of-inequality-of-funding-to-dublin-gaa

Ardnaree delegate Johnny O’Malley then raised the idea of a motion for the 2020 GAA Congress tackling the ‘inequality of funding’ going towards Dublin

ToBeFrank123

D9Male wrote: »

I think the GAA is in vibrant health. I have been at GAA events in Armagh, Dublin, Wexford, Kilkenny, Cork, Kildare and Meath in the last year.

Every club is buzzing. Healthy, happy kids everywhere.

Intercounty championship attendances would say otherwise, Dublin9male.