The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

tritium

beggars_bush wrote: »

If they are being funded as a province, the railway cup is the obvious place for Dublin

Yeah let’s just restore the old status quo. How does that look for Leitrim, Carlow or Wicklow btw?

tritium

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

As I keep reminding you, 31 counties in Ireland compete for Sam Maguire. They all deserve ease of access to a national centre, not just the most populated county, Dublin.

Everyone paid for it afterall, including those on the western seaboard.

But its actually all a moot point. No county team trains there. And the idea that a club from Donegal, Cork, Kerry, Mayo would travel up to train there with a 6, 7 or 8 hour round trip is laughable to say the least.

Funny, earlier in the thread all we got was how players outside dublin had to commute from jobs and study in dublin and surrounds to play and how hard the long commute was.

Now we’re getting how hard it is to commute to dublin for the facilities.

A couple of seasons ago a report highlighted how 10 of the mayo panel were based in dublin. Did they just refuse to use dublin facilities on principle? Did other posters not really see them in the gym in dublin?

Honestly, you want to have your cake and eat it. Many counties have COEs and third level facilities of their own, that are utilized. They then also demonstrably use facilities in dublin that are available. And still there’s a whinge that it’s unfair. What do you want, a home gym and personal s&c coach for each inter county player? Do you really think dublin players just get chauffeured down the road from the AIG staff hotel to their private gym.

Pathetic, bitter crap

odyssey06

beggars_bush wrote: »

If they are being funded as a province, the railway cup is the obvious place for Dublin

Didn't you hear? They have won the last 5 in a row that's why the Railway Cup got scrapped.

gormdubhgorm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Not sure what commuter counties has got to do with anything?

Population, facilities, working it in Dublin all those aspects seem to go over your head when it suits.
On the one hand you state that it is difficult for those on the western seaboard to travel to facilities in Dublin -pointed out by another poster.

tritium wrote: »

Funny, earlier in the thread all we got was how players outside dublin had to commute from jobs and study in dublin and surrounds to play and how hard the long commute was.

Now we’re getting how hard it is to commute to dublin for the facilities.

A couple of seasons ago a report highlighted how 10 of the mayo panel were based in dublin. Did they just refuse to use dublin facilities on principle? Did other posters not really see them in the gym in dublin?

Honestly, you want to have your cake and eat it. Many counties have COEs and third level facilities of their own, that are utilized. They then also demonstrably use facilities in dublin that are available. And still there’s a whinge that it’s unfair

Yet many on the Western Seaboard have Centres Of Excellence for a start Donegal, Kerry, Leitrim, Galway, Connacht GAA have a COE in Mayo

https://donegalgaa.ie/2014/06/06/centre-of-excellence-lights-up/

http://www.kerrygaa.ie/centre-of-excellence/

https://www.leitrimobserver.ie/gallery/gaelic-games/476497/leitrim-gaa-celebrates-opening-of-mcgovern-aughavas-leitrim-gaa-centre-of-excellence-gallery.html

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Galway-Gaa-Grounds-Loughgeorge/427319427373111

http://connachtgaa.ie/connacht-gaa-centre-services/.

Or there are also plans afoot for Mayo GAA and Silgo GAA, Roscommon GAA

http://www.sligogaa.ie/ClubSligo/ClubSligo_Brochure.pdf

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-house-raffle-raises-1-4m-for-roscommon-gaa-1.3746277

Then when I mentioned the commuter counties close to Dublin, you again brush it off and feign confusion!

You did not address why two large prosperous, traditional football counties like Kildare/Meath from a position of strength would let themselves fall below not just Dublin. But fall below or just about compete with other counties in Leinster.

Meath COE

http://www.meathsports.ie/facility/meath-gaa-centre-of-sporting-excellence/

Kildare COE -

https://www.sportsfile.com/more-images/1301162/

ToBeFrank123

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

What region is Athlone in?

I don't mind discussing regions only if its simpler.

A centrally located centre would be far more accessable to the west, south west, midlands, west leinster, and about the same for everywhere else apart from the eastern seaboard who would be expected to travel the same distance as those on the west coast which would be entirely fair.

WTF are you banging on about now? Forget about regions. Just use the provinces like 99% of people, including the GAA, do. You're refusing to address the points already made and claiming, yet again, that it would be better if it was in Athlone......so here it is once more: It is quicker for more counties to get to Dublin than it is for those same counties to get to Athlone.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

As I keep reminding you, 31 counties in Ireland compete for Sam Maguire. They all deserve ease of access to a national centre, not just the most populated county, Dublin.

See above....it's not just Dublin, it's all of Ulster, half of Munster and the majority of Leinster. The point re: population is just the icing on the cake. Yes, Connacht get shafted when it's on the East coast but Ulster get shafted if it is based in Athlone.

Your original point is that it should never have been located in Dublin.
You never provided an alternative.
When pressed, you just picked somewhere that you assumed would be easier to get to for everyone.
Turns out that's not the case.

Now you're arguing semantics about regions vs provinces and harping on about 31 counties and Sam Maguire.....as if its impossible for the Hurlers to use the same facilities as footballers. Take a step back and look at what you're saying, pal.

dunnerc

beggars_bush wrote: »

If they are being funded as a province, the railway cup is the obvious place for Dublin

Keep dreaming :rolleyes:

gormdubhgorm

You were trying to be the smartarse with those previous comments. Trying to slag off Bertie Ahern with Snide remarks.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

But hey Dublin was the weak county in the early 2000s or so Bertie thought despite winning an AI only 7 years before. He probably viewed Westmeath, Laois, Offaly as dominant teams or something like that.

He should have stuck to da auld soccer.

Then when it was pointed out to you those smart remarks you made have no basis in fact by showing you Bertie Ahern’s thought process and reasons -

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/ahern-defends-dublin-gaas-funding-windfall-865484.html

“Yes, Dublin has a big population, but it’s a tough game in Dublin. It’s huge soccer country; it’s huge rugby country; it’s huge people-who-couldn’t-care-less-about-Gaelic-football; huge new Irish population, if I put it that way; and you have people who just aren’t sympathetic to GAA in the city.”

“I remember back in ’95, coming back up from a commemoration in Wexford the day of the All-Ireland final, and I had to go to Liberty Hall before I saw the first Dublin colours. It’s not like that now, but it was like that."

You simply gloss over it as Ahern talking ‘horse manure’

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Bertie was talking horse manure. Rugby is strong in numerous counties as are several other sports.

In fairness to you do not seem to understand the special dynamic that Dublin has with the GAA that no other county has.

There is a GAA class war in Dublin.


https://www.buzz.ie/gaa/long-read-dublin-gaa-danger-leaving-working-class-behind-243759




“
There are now five Tallaght clubs, but none of the five have a player on the Dublin squad.

Val Andrews, the well travelled coach, is affiliated to Ballymun Kickhams - a club that straddles working class and middle class areas.

He feels that vast west Dublin suburbs - which are predominantly working class - don't have enough GAA clubs to cope with the numbers.

Tallaght, for example, has a larger population than Kilkenny, but has just five GAA clubs.

Clondalkin has a larger population than Longford, but has just one - Jim Gavin's home club, Round Towers.

"Maybe we're a bit insular. The GAA wasn't proactive in expanding as much as it needed to,'' he said.

"But the bottom line is this: soccer is the working class game. Full stop.”

---


In an interview with the Irish Times on the occasion of the GAA’s 125th anniversary, director general Páraic Duffy acknowledged that it is a problem.

“We have become a more middle class game in Dublin. To be fair, the Dublin County Board recognise that,'' he said.

"But it is a major challenge because you have to commit so many resources and send in so many volunteers. The GAA asks so much of its clubs that it probably puts people off.

“In working class Dublin, soccer is by far the biggest sport. We have some very good clubs in working class areas but overall participation and interest in our games is very, very low.

"In vast tracts of urban Ireland there is very little interest in our affairs. That’s the reality.”

--



The process is as follows country people move to Dublin for work and they found GAA clubs instill the love of GAA in their Dublin sons/daughters.

What other county has that same process where the GAA flame is mainly kept alive by ‘blow in’s’ ?

--



Val Andrews -

"If you look at the working class areas where there are clubs, it's basically because you had an influx of country people who set them up.

"Ballymun Kickhams was set up by country people coming to Ballymun at that time."

--


Economist David McWilliams -

"We should be wary about making assumptions about different areas in Dublin.

Ballymun is seen as working class, but many of the Kickhams' players come from the middle classes."



McWilliams also notes that the upwardly mobile culchie parents of Dub children have created a paradox



"If you look at it, it ties in with the socio-economic change of south Dublin.

"The most successful people in Ireland since the introduction of free education in the '60s have been the sons and daughters of small farmers.

"Their kids become school-teachers, and their kids become doctors and lawyers.

"They live in south Dublin and send their kids to private schools, but retain the love of GAA.

"That's the main reason why GAA has gone massively up the socio-economic bracket in south Dublin."

McWilliams believes that there's a paradox at play with some in Dublin GAA.

"I think there's an antipathy to south Dublin on the part of the parents who bought the biggest houses in south Dublin,'' he said.

"I've heard what I would call the GAA professional fathers being quite aggressively anti the rugby culture of south Dublin.

"And yet they're very happy to send their kids to the private schools that propagate the rugby culture.

"But they ensure that their kids play GAA outside of school."

--

So after reading that and how Bertie Ahern has helped revive Dublin GAA despite this internal struggle with opposing codes and socio-economic backgrounds – it must go down as his greatest achievement after the Peace Process.

As Bertie Ahern not only saved Dublin GAA but saved up to 20% of the population of Ireland from losing Gaelic games. It would have lead to the slow death of the GAA otherwise.

Look at how the Dublin footballers have bought Gaelic games forward tactically:

That would not have had happened only for Dublin it would still be men behind the ball Jim McGuinness stuff.

Kerry are now paying attention to Dublin’s tactics the game is moving forward both literally and figuratively.
In time this will be viewed as the start of a golden age of Gaelic football a change in mindset and tactical flexibility. The use of basketball tactics on movement etc.

ArielAtom

beggars_bush wrote: »

If they are being funded as a province, the railway cup is the obvious place for Dublin

The fact that it no longer exists might explain it!!!!!!

blanch152

ArielAtom wrote: »

The fact that it no longer exists might explain it!!!!!!

Don't let facts get in the way of their ideas.

ToBeFrank123

More of the Dublin is special guff. Jesus Christ, do ye ever get tired of spouting this ****e?

The sad thing is the GAA bought it hook line and sinker and pumped ye full with financial doping.

Keep the excuses for financial doping coming. Probably more of the Dublin is special, no other county has to deal with others sports ****e.

gormdubhgorm

blanch152 wrote: »

Don't let facts get in the way of their ideas.

I get the impression that many of the most virulent anti-Dublin GAA brigade are not sports fans in a real sense.
Those like Ewan MacKenna seem very distant from the GAA and can only talk about it in a mostly abstract fashion.
They just want to stick the metaphorical boot in.
They are really just WUM's who just want to degrade success.

There is a middle ground who get the GAA but do not understand the difficulties Dublin face in comparison to other counties.
It is hard for those in the sticks to appreciate it, in fairness to them.

Finally there is a third grouping who appreciate what Dublin GAA has done for GAA as a whole, and how the future of the games looks bright because of them.
No begrudgery just admiration of a job well done - but a job that is not yet finished as Dublin are trying to improve not only football and hurling at an intercounty level in Dublin.
But the lower levels they have increased the participation rates at club level.
They are trying to break into the areas in Dublin where there is little or no GAA presence.
That can only be good for Gaelic games as whole in future.
Most sensible people realise this.

gormdubhgorm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

More of the Dublin is special guff. Jesus Christ, do ye ever get tired of spouting this ****e?

The sad thing is the GAA bought it hook line and sinker and pumped ye full with financial doping.

Keep the excuses for financial doping coming. Probably more of the Dublin is special, no other county has to deal with others sports ****e.

The fact you misuse the phrase 'financial doping' - proves that you are yet another who has been brainwashed and mislead by Ewan MacKenna.

It has already been covered on this thread but MacKenna is incorrectly using the the term 'financial doping' in applying it to the GAA.

I won't post it again but I will let you find out the real meaning and origin of the phrase if you wish.
It might stick this time.

Whether you like it or not Dublin is special it has 20% of the population. It is the economic hub of the country people from all backgrounds migrate there for economic reasons.

Yet if you look at where the GAA clubs are in Dublin there are too few in large catchment areas.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1jPTnqpYCmQfVYX6i54jxeeoxSOY&ll=53.2988161187218%2C-6.251134762686661&z=11

Also Dublin GAA are in the midst of a 'class war' with other sports as I have previously stated.
It is not just against the other sports per se it is a class and cultural battlefield.
That is unique in the 26 counties to Dublin the only county in the ROI which such a divided population in large numbers.

Not only that in Dublin club football non-Dubs have started to appear more and more, especially in the Dublin 'superclubs'.
These non-Dubs are taking the place of Dubs getting the benefit of thier coaching and training facilities - while keeping Dubs on the bench - or worse off the panel. It also makes it more difficult for clubs who do not have numbers of intercounty non-Dubs playing for them.
How many other counties have to face these types of difficulties?

ArielAtom

Just putting it out there for those that might not understand its meaning as has been stated by Gorm.

Noun. financial doping (uncountable) The situation in which the owner of a sports club or franchise invests his or her own personal wealth into securing highly talented players to better their chances of success, rather than relying on the revenue the franchise is able to generate for itself.

Floppybits

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yet if you look at where the GAA clubs are in Dublin there are too few in large catchment areas.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1jPTnqpYCmQfVYX6i54jxeeoxSOY&ll=53.2988161187218%2C-6.251134762686661&z=11

The map is missing a few clubs like Ballinteer St John's, St Annes, Binn Eadir (howth). In saying that one club servicing the whole of Blanchardstown and Lucan .

gormdubhgorm

Floppybits wrote: »

The map is missing a few clubs like Ballinteer St John's, St Annes, Binn Eadir (howth). In saying that one club servicing the whole of Blanchardstown and Lucan .

I think anyone can add teams info to it if they want to.
The idea of the person who created it was to map all the GAA clubs around the country.

RoyalCelt

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I think anyone can add teams info to it if they want to.
The idea of the person who created it was to map all the GAA clubs around the country.

It's true that cuala are one club servicing a huge area but they could easily be split into 2 clubs or even 3. Their playing numbers are huge. It would probably result in more people playing GAA in that area if there were 3 clubs instead of 1.

Portlaoise are not as big a club but I always said it would be better for Laois GAA if the town had 2 clubs instead of one.

RoyalCelt

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Population, facilities, working it in Dublin all those aspects seem to go over your head when it suits.
On the one hand you state that it is difficult for those on the western seaboard to travel to facilities in Dublin -pointed out by another poster.




Yet many on the Western Seaboard have Centres Of Excellence for a start Donegal, Kerry, Leitrim, Galway, Connacht GAA have a COE in Mayo

https://donegalgaa.ie/2014/06/06/centre-of-excellence-lights-up/

http://www.kerrygaa.ie/centre-of-excellence/

https://www.leitrimobserver.ie/gallery/gaelic-games/476497/leitrim-gaa-celebrates-opening-of-mcgovern-aughavas-leitrim-gaa-centre-of-excellence-gallery.html

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Galway-Gaa-Grounds-Loughgeorge/427319427373111

http://connachtgaa.ie/connacht-gaa-centre-services/.

Or there are also plans afoot for Mayo GAA and Silgo GAA, Roscommon GAA

http://www.sligogaa.ie/ClubSligo/ClubSligo_Brochure.pdf

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-house-raffle-raises-1-4m-for-roscommon-gaa-1.3746277

Then when I mentioned the commuter counties close to Dublin, you again brush it off and feign confusion!

You did not address why two large prosperous, traditional football counties like Kildare/Meath from a position of strength would let themselves fall below not just Dublin. But fall below or just about compete with other counties in Leinster.

Meath COE

http://www.meathsports.ie/facility/meath-gaa-centre-of-sporting-excellence/

Kildare COE -

https://www.sportsfile.com/more-images/1301162/

Codswallop. If Kildare or meath gaa got the money Dublin have we wouldn't have fallen so much. This revisionist history about meath and Kildare needs to stop. How often did either county even win 2 Leinsters in a row? Neither dominated the province in recent history.

1931 is the last time Kildare did it. So what Grace did they fall from exactly? They've never dominated the province.

1918 the last time wexford won 2 in a row.
1982 for Ofally.
1910 for Louth.
1938 for Laois

Meath are the most recent and that was 1991. So this idea that Meath and Kildare dominated dublin's lean period in the 90's and 00's isn't true. If Dublin weren't competing in Leinster it was left to actual counties to compete we'd see a big spread of titles. There's no chance Kildare and Meath would dominate. Other counties like Laois and Longford would raise their game big time with realistic honors at stake.

Meath and Kildare wouldn't have the expertise to turn their panels into emotionless robots that keep winning every year like it means nothing to them. I wonder what will happen first, Dublin moved out of leinster or the province scrapped. I can safely say no county in Leinster will ever beat Dublin again. In 10 years the best of leinster will struggled to get within 20.

And we'll be told it's up to the rest to get their house in order. Galway were moved out of Connaught in hurling so the blue print is there.

tritium

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Codswallop. If Kildare or meath gaa got the money Dublin have we wouldn't have fallen so much. This revisionist history about meath and Kildare needs to stop. How often did either county even win 2 Leinsters in a row? Neither dominated the province in recent history.

1931 is the last time Kildare did it. So what Grace did they fall from exactly? They've never dominated the province.

1918 the last time wexford won 2 in a row.
1982 for Ofally.
1910 for Louth.
1938 for Laois

Meath are the most recent and that was 1991. So this idea that Meath and Kildare dominated dublin's lean period in the 90's and 00's isn't true. If Dublin weren't competing in Leinster it was left to actual counties to compete we'd see a big spread of titles. There's no chance Kildare and Meath would dominate. Other counties like Laois and Longford would raise their game big time with realistic honors at stake.

Meath and Kildare wouldn't have the expertise to turn their panels into emotionless robots that keep winning every year like it means nothing to them. I wonder what will happen first, Dublin moved out of leinster or the province scrapped. I can safely say no county in Leinster will ever beat Dublin again. In 10 years the best of leinster will struggled to get within 20.

And we'll be told it's up to the rest to get their house in order. Galway were moved out of Connaught in hurling so the blue print is there.

This notion that somehow everyone would suddenly raise their game if it wasn’t for Dublin. All the evidence says the opposite, all the evidence says Leinster needs its standard raised to the level dublin aspired to and achieved not dublin removed from the equation but still this nonsense persists

This insulting idea of dublin as robots- as a team they’ve shown more heart and technical ability than any team in the history of the game and reaped the rewards for that but still this is rolled out

This idea that other counties have just been left in poverty, when the gaas own games development reports make a lie of it - per capita Leinster has been far from starved of development resources

The idea that everyone pretends they want a competitive Leinster yet straight away you look for another team to dominate. No aspiration for Leinster to actually compete at AI level. 5 teams have won the province in the last 20 years yet you conveniently switch to 2 in a row as some sort of benchmark. In spite of that how have a dublin less Leinster fares on the AI? Abject nonsense

odyssey06

RoyalCelt wrote: »

And we'll be told it's up to the rest to get their house in order. Galway were moved out of Connaught in hurling so the blue print is there.

How is the Connacht hurling championship doing these days minus Galway?
There is no blue print to follow. What you are talking about re: Galway hurlers bears no relation to Dublin and Leinster football.

What you are talking about would be the creation of a two tier championship structure with all Leinster teams bar Dublin in the B section and the Leinster title as some sort of shield.

Paulzx

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Meath and Kildare wouldn't have the expertise to turn their panels into emotionless robots that keep winning every year like it means nothing to them..

In a thread full of repetitive bickering and constant going around in circles that comment is up there with the most ridiculous, pointless and vindictive posts in this whole mess of a thread. Congratulations

gormdubhgorm

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Meath and Kildare wouldn't have the expertise to turn their panels into emotionless robots that keep winning every year

Paulzx wrote: »

In a thread full of repetitive bickering and constant going around in circles that comment is up there with the most ridiculous, pointless and vindictive posts in this whole mess of a thread. Congratulations

Agreed the mask slipped there anyone making those kind of statements has a clear nasty, negative biased agenda. I suspect that many who believe or parrot the 'financial doping' misnomer also believe the Dublin players are 'robots' not worthy of praise. These red flag terms when used in a GAA context really unmask the individual making the statements.
They cannot think for themselves they are willing to believe the myth in those phrases.
It shows how dangerous a propagated myth can be.
The type of people who look for someone/something successful to knock.
They ignore all the wonderful footballers that Dublin have - head up footballers.
The great games between Dublin and thier opponents in the business end of the championship.
If anyone did not enjoy the Kerry v Dublin games they should not watch the sport ever again. The standard the level of play of both sides was incredible.

The real irony is when you look at the negative anti-Dublin cult leader Ewan MacKenna. This is the person who was the first appropriator of the 'financial doping' term to Dublin GAA. But who clearly does not understand the meaning of the phrase as he uses it as a misnomer placing it in a GAA context.
Even he was in complete turmoil after the drawn game in particular. He likes to also propagate another myth that Gaelic football is dying because of Dublin. The great game flew in the face of this and messed with his narrative.

MacKenna was struggling to find anything negative to say, he even had to admit he enjoyed the game. To find something negative he had to move into the hypothetical and give Dublin backhanded compliments. Remember this is the same person who referred to Jim Gavin as 'a nasty odious little man' - before he later altered the tweet. He also implied in the past that Shane Lowry was a fascist! On the day he won the open.


When it comes down to it some people just like a target to attack, they are not real sports fans merely people with chips on thier shoulder who resent those who are successful in society.
This is the class of people that end up getting involved in debates like these.
Those who find it far easier to be negative about greatness and seek to disparage and denegrade it.
I suppose it is far easier to try and disparage success/greatness than it is to achieve success or even aspire towards it.

Maybe those great dual players Ciaran Kilkenny, Cormac Costello, Con O'Callaghan, Diarmuid Connolly would only get praised by some if they switched to the Dublin Hurlers, as they would not be viewed as a 'threat' to certain fallen traditional football counties?

Bonniedog

The fact that McKenna has teamed up with MacGregor says all you need to know about his much vaunted concern for the values of sport, and human decency.

gormdubhgorm

Bonniedog wrote: »

The fact that McKenna has teamed up with MacGregor says all you need to know about his much vaunted concern for the values of sport, and human decency.

Ironically that proves the hypocrisy of MacKenna if true -

https://www.balls.ie/mma/conor-mcgregors-coach-got-personal-irish-journalist-twitter-138197

MacKenna also has to be one of the least self-aware people you could meet with headlines such as -

Ewan MacKenna on Conor McGregor: A would-be 'working-class hero' who became a parody of himself

https://www.independent.ie/sport/mcgregor-v-mayweather/ewan-mackenna-on-conor-mcgregor-a-wouldbe-workingclass-hero-who-became-a-parody-of-himself-36070726.html

The irony in this statement has obviously escaped MacKenna that he has become a parody of himself aswell. Yet MacKenna is the fella who is the champion of 'truth' for many people on this thread.
Mackenna is playing his followers like a harp with his Dublin 'financial doping' shtick and they do not even realise it.

ArielAtom

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Codswallop. If Kildare or meath gaa got the money Dublin have we wouldn't have fallen so much. This revisionist history about meath and Kildare needs to stop. How often did either county even win 2 Leinsters in a row? Neither dominated the province in recent history.

1931 is the last time Kildare did it. So what Grace did they fall from exactly? They've never dominated the province.

1918 the last time wexford won 2 in a row.
1982 for Ofally.
1910 for Louth.
1938 for Laois

Meath are the most recent and that was 1991. So this idea that Meath and Kildare dominated dublin's lean period in the 90's and 00's isn't true. If Dublin weren't competing in Leinster it was left to actual counties to compete we'd see a big spread of titles. There's no chance Kildare and Meath would dominate. Other counties like Laois and Longford would raise their game big time with realistic honors at stake.

Meath and Kildare wouldn't have the expertise to turn their panels into emotionless robots that keep winning every year like it means nothing to them. I wonder what will happen first, Dublin moved out of leinster or the province scrapped. I can safely say no county in Leinster will ever beat Dublin again. In 10 years the best of leinster will struggled to get within 20.

And we'll be told it's up to the rest to get their house in order. Galway were moved out of Connaught in hurling so the blue print is there.

The bitterness in this post just makes it all the more enjoyable. Emotionless robots, sure ye can’t turn them into footballers FFS��

gormdubhgorm

ArielAtom wrote: »

The bitterness in this post just makes it all the more enjoyable. Emotionless robots, sure ye can’t turn them into footballers FFS��

The irony is that 'robots' post was made by a Meath supporter is not lost on me.
Meath a county who used to have 'footballers' - Giles - Ollie Murphy, Stafford, Flynn, O'Rourke, Geraghty
Now they seem to only produce strong physical backs they seem to severely lack the skillful intelligent forwards/midfielders (unlike Dublin).
The Meath forward line seems completely dependent on one big forward Newman.
Even in midfield Menton is just a strong horse of man who breaks through lines.
They are trying to talk up players like young Shane Walsh and Ethan Devine in the forwards as thier next hopes - that is how desperate thier situation has become.

Meanwhile Dublin have Howard, Scullly, McCarthy, Kilkenny, Con O'Callaghan, Mannion, Paddy Andrews, Cian O'Sullivan, Fenton etc all Rolls Royce players.

Fellas who play with thier head up.

Not to mention Jack Mc who is only a little fella but integral to the Dublin style skill, pace , panache, intelligence and athleticism.

Cluxton a fella who revolutionised the goalkeeping role in Gaelic football.

Dublin also have the veterans Brogan and Connolly - both skillful players.
Brogan a man who humbly accepted that he would not take his place on the team bus because of Connolly. Yet he still wants to stay going.
Connolly a man who changed his game to get a place as sub for Dublin dropping deep into midfield holding up the ball dictating play.

Remember this pass ?

You can't teach that you either have it or you don't.

Those who think Dublin are merely 'robots' only see what they want to see.

Maybe Dublin's courageous skillful blitz of Mayo when under pressure in the SF passed those people by?

Maybe the courage/tactical acumen of Dublin pressing with 14 men against Kerry in the drawn game was not seen by those people?

Maybe they have forgotten Dublin's win against Tyrone in the 2018 final? The Tyrone players just sat back and Dublin intelligently worked the ball in scoring positions with very few wides. This was a Tyrone team set up to stop Dublin rather than create remember?

Happyilylost

gormdubhgorm wrote:

Remember this pass ?

I wouldn't overly praise that pass.... Connolly said he was aiming for COC.

blanch152

Happyilylost wrote: »

I wouldn't overly praise that pass.... Connolly said he was aiming for COC.

Did he? You have a link?

Happyilylost

blanch152 wrote:

Did he? You have a link?

I do. Thanks for asking.

blanch152

Happyilylost wrote: »

I do. Thanks for asking.

Great, you might post it, because I never heard Connolly say that.

RoyalCelt

The 6 in a row starts next year with a trouncing of Westmeath.

ArielAtom

RoyalCelt wrote: »

The 6 in a row starts next year with a trouncing of Westmeath.

Hopefully.

beggars_bush

RoyalCelt wrote: »

The 6 in a row starts next year with a trouncing of Westmeath.

Will they play it at a neutral venue again?

ArielAtom

beggars_bush wrote: »

Will they play it at a neutral venue again?

You never know.

Bonniedog

beggars_bush wrote: »

Will they play it at a neutral venue again?

It's same as Kerry v anyone other than Cork in Munster, although Westmeath have beaten Dublin twice in 100 years. Can't say same for Clare. Limerick or Waterford.

beggars_bush

Bonniedog wrote: »

It's same as Kerry v anyone other than Cork in Munster, although Westmeath have beaten Dublin twice in 100 years. Can't say same for Clare. Limerick or Waterford.

When did Clare play Dublin? Kerry have often played in Ennis. Same for Limerick and Waterford.

Bonniedog

When did Kerry play Westmeath? Dublin have often played in Mullingar,

Point is that over 135 years Dublin could have played Westmeath in Mullingar or Milan, or Kerry played Clare in Ennis or Enfield.

Would have made absolutely no difference, whatsoever on almost 99% of those occasions.

gormdubhgorm

beggars_bush wrote: »

Will they play it at a neutral venue again?

I think you will find your answer to your conundrum that you are going around in circles with on this page (which you also engaged in)

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=111298323

It would most likely be Portlaoise if the Leinster council deem it a game where there would be not much interest - like Carlow 2017 , Wicklow 2018, Louth 2019.
Or maybe even in Nowlan park where Dublin played Laois 2018.
Maybe you have forgotten these posts in your excitement while reading about Dublin GAA just a number of pages later?
It is great you have such an interest in Dublin GAA though - which proves that even a non-Dub like you can develop thier interest in the GAA through Dublin - it shows what a great job Dublin are doing for the growth of the games.

I assume you prefer going to league games as it gives you more of an opportunity to see the Dubs as a neutral fan?
Personally I would agree with this as the league is a great competition.
The championship would be much better if it was home and away.

I assume a neutral fan like you who clearly admires Dublin GAA is also concerned about the unfairness of the Dublin hurlers being forced to play home games in CP in the past? Giving them a clear disadvantage, as they prefer Parnell Park.
As a follower and person with a deep interest in Dublin GAA like yourself, you may be already aware of it.

It is understandable such a person with strong interest in the GAA (and Dublin GAA in particular) should be concerned about venue.
You are probably also a strong club man who is tired of trips to Croke Park and likes to get around in the provincial grounds following Dublin to get to see more of the grassroots of the GAA.
As a neutral GAA fan it is great to see. Fair play to you.

ToBeFrank123

Bonniedog wrote: »

It's same as Kerry v anyone other than Cork in Munster, although Westmeath have beaten Dublin twice in 100 years. Can't say same for Clare. Limerick or Waterford.

You have very little understanding of GAA from what I can see.

It has been explained to you countless times Munster is a hurling province apart from Kerry and parts of Cork and even most of those parts are dual areas.

gormdubhgorm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

You have very little understanding of GAA from what I can see.

It has been explained to you countless times Munster is a hurling province apart from Kerry and parts of Cork and even most of those parts are dual areas.

Does that not say more about the problem of the championship structure rather than being a 'Dublin problem'?
The team who is most successful in Gaelic football history is located in a hurling province.

gormdubhgorm

beggars_bush wrote: »

How many clubs in Tallaght?

Five Tallaght clubs, but none of the five have a player on the Dublin senior football squad - population approx 80k
Finglas population approx 40k one club no player on Dublin football senior squad
Clondalkin population approx 50k one club (catchment area 100k) no player on Dublin football senior squad.
It is good that you are showing concern about the well-being of Dublin football in working class West Dublin - which is a hotbed of soccer.

bruschi

to somewhat change the discussion a slight bit, I think what would could be Dublins downfall is the success of the clubs and the fact that their coverage is far too large. One club for thousands of members with ultimately only one senior team is hard to sustain. And it will come to a stage where the club will start becoming bigger than the county so to speak. Take Ballymun for example and the grumblings after their last defeat. All the county players on their team, but failing at club level. There are plenty of stories throughout Ireland where you have a club manager wanting success for his club over players going off to county and it could happen in Dublin too where the competition for places on a club team will become so fierce that the club will take precedence over county.

Now obviously, county takes priority when going well, but when they have done it all, do players then feel they can afford to take a step back and do it for the club instead. So ultimately, it could be a case of Dublin eating itself from the inside out. When the club competition is so much harder and tougher, it will be a pinnacle tournament to win. Plus it is only so long that you can keep so many club players going but with no guarantee of top level games, will players continue to accept playing at lower levels in B or C teams when they would make A teams elsewhere?

Again, there is no criticism there, but I do think Dublin would be better served at club level to have more clubs established. The success of Castleknock shows that it can be done, and even other clubs like Realt Dearg setting up as a hurling only club for essentially exiles but expanding so much that they have multiple teams now. There are large areas of Dublin where people are left with a shortage of clubs. Its very hard to either split a club or start a new one in an area with a club with history, but ultimately, it would be for the better overall of Dublin if they did so.

Easy to say from the outside obviously, but realistically, it makes sense.

gormdubhgorm

bruschi wrote: »

to somewhat change the discussion a slight bit, I think what would could be Dublins downfall is the success of the clubs and the fact that their coverage is far too large. One club for thousands of members with ultimately only one senior team is hard to sustain. And it will come to a stage where the club will start becoming bigger than the county so to speak. Take Ballymun for example and the grumblings after their last defeat. All the county players on their team, but failing at club level. There are plenty of stories throughout Ireland where you have a club manager wanting success for his club over players going off to county and it could happen in Dublin too where the competition for places on a club team will become so fierce that the club will take precedence over county.

Now obviously, county takes priority when going well, but when they have done it all, do players then feel they can afford to take a step back and do it for the club instead. So ultimately, it could be a case of Dublin eating itself from the inside out. When the club competition is so much harder and tougher, it will be a pinnacle tournament to win. Plus it is only so long that you can keep so many club players going but with no guarantee of top level games, will players continue to accept playing at lower levels in B or C teams when they would make A teams elsewhere?

Again, there is no criticism there, but I do think Dublin would be better served at club level to have more clubs established. The success of Castleknock shows that it can be done, and even other clubs like Realt Dearg setting up as a hurling only club for essentially exiles but expanding so much that they have multiple teams now. There are large areas of Dublin where people are left with a shortage of clubs. Its very hard to either split a club or start a new one in an area with a club with history, but ultimately, it would be for the better overall of Dublin if they did so.

Easy to say from the outside obviously, but realistically, it makes sense.

They are trying to get more clubs in Dublin.
But there is a battle for land as was seen with the Na Fianna v Metro North episode.

I think you are on to something though the Ballymun situation will be the real test of players commitment to inter-county. After all the GAA is founded on the notion of the club being more meaningful for players.

Personally I think the club competition will end up being expanded and will get a status above inter-county level. The club game has already won the battle against the railway-cup. It will take time but I think the club game will win the battle against inter-county aswell. Already many of those from weaker counties, prefer to play for thier club and not bother playing county - that is the opposite end of scale of Ballymun's problem.

salmocab

One of the reasons Soccer hasn’t eaten up everything in Dublin is the fact that it is crammed with tiny clubs and no facilities in most of them, its badly run with people setting up clubs on a whim. GAA could certainly stand to have quite a few more clubs in the county but the costs of getting facilities in the most of the county would be prohibitive. There is a shortage of council pitches with some of the big clubs using pitches spread over several miles.

odyssey06

bruschi wrote: »

Plus it is only so long that you can keep so many club players going but with no guarantee of top level games, will players continue to accept playing at lower levels in B or C teams when they would make A teams elsewhere?

A lot of players are less concerned about B or C than they are about just playing the game.
A large club's B team might be playing in same competition as a smaller club's A team... would it really make a big difference to those players?

I wonder if it might make sense to slice and dice the playing pool in a different way... an U23 league, an over 30s league for example.

blanch152

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

You have very little understanding of GAA from what I can see.

It has been explained to you countless times Munster is a hurling province apart from Kerry and parts of Cork and even most of those parts are dual areas.

Correct, and that has meant that there is an institutional advantage for Kerry built in to the Championship structure for over 100 years. Time to split them.

Realt Dearg Sec

bruschi wrote: »

The success of Castleknock shows that it can be done, and even other clubs like Realt Dearg setting up as a hurling only club for essentially exiles but expanding so much that they have multiple teams now.

Just on this as we got a mention, I went to the dressing room after a match against Castleknock once when we lost to them in our early days and said to them they were a model of what is possible for a young club. The progress they made in their first ten years was phenomenal. We've progressed hugely in our first ten as well, now fielding three teams including at Junior A where we made a semi final.

However the broader point that the major clubs are too big is definitely true. The catchment areas and populations for massive clubs like Boden and Crokes etc is completely counterproductive. But when a new club gets set up, these guys go into lockdown to protect what they have, such as the farcical way our club was dealt with in seeking use of a DCC pitch in Ringsend. The reality is that having super clubs like this isn't the best way to foster the sport in a big city, you need to have more small clubs fielding teams at various levels, especially junior, rather than a situation where big clubs have five or six adult teams, and the lower ones are basically full of players with very limited interest or attachment to it, and who can and do routinely draw on players from their higher up teams to pull out wins when necessary. I think the future for the GAA in Dublin will always be defined by the big clubs, but there will be a proliferation of small junior clubs around the county in the coming years, given the success of teams like Ranelagh Gaels and ourselves.

odyssey06

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

However the broader point that the major clubs are too big is definitely true. The catchment areas and populations for massive clubs like Boden and Crokes etc is completely counterproductive. But when a new club gets set up, these guys go into lockdown to protect what they have, such as the farcical way our club was dealt with in seeking use of a DCC pitch in Ringsend. The reality is that having super clubs like this isn't the best way to foster the sport in a big city, you need to have more small clubs fielding teams at various levels, especially junior, rather than a situation where big clubs have five or six adult teams, and the lower ones are basically full of players with very limited interest or attachment to it, and who can and do routinely draw on players from their higher up teams to pull out wins when necessary. I think the future for the GAA in Dublin will always be defined by the big clubs, but there will be a proliferation of small junior clubs around the county in the coming years, given the success of teams like Ranelagh Gaels and ourselves.

Those are interesting points, but are the superclubs better at fostering juvenile participation, being able to field teams at all age levels, provide coaching etc?
But that does lead to an overload of adult players who may not feel a connection to the club anymore. Hmm.
Whereas smaller clubs may struggle at juvenile but can pull together a senior team as they have a bigger spread of ages to select from; and so that senior team has a sense of camaraderie.
Just throwing that out for discussion.

bruschi

odyssey06 wrote: »

Those are interesting points, but are the superclubs better at fostering juvenile participation, being able to field teams at all age levels, provide coaching etc?
But that does lead to an overload of adult players who may not feel a connection to the club anymore. Hmm.
Whereas smaller clubs may struggle at juvenile but can pull together a senior team as they have a bigger spread of ages to select from; and so that senior team has a sense of camaraderie.
Just throwing that out for discussion.

there is no reason I could see at all why a club in Dublin wouldnt be able to field at underage. As the reasons outlined above, existing clubs and land issues are the biggest hindrance, but surely if the sole aim is for more participation, having more clubs makes that challenge more attainable than having one huge club try cover a massive populated area. Considering that Dublin and Cork have similar registered players but vastly different populations, Dublin really is not maximising the population or getting value at increased participation.

Realt Dearg Sec

odyssey06 wrote: »

Those are interesting points, but are the superclubs better at fostering juvenile participation, being able to field teams at all age levels, provide coaching etc?
But that does lead to an overload of adult players who may not feel a connection to the club anymore. Hmm.
Whereas smaller clubs may struggle at juvenile but can pull together a senior team as they have a bigger spread of ages to select from; and so that senior team has a sense of camaraderie.
Just throwing that out for discussion.

I grew up playing in a very big club at home and my experience was that while they have very good structures in place, the large numbers mean that while the best players are identified early the weaker ones gradually become more marginalised, because the resources just aren't there to help everyone. It's not that a smaller club is better resourced, but that they are forced to care about everyone who participates, because numbers are so tight. I certainly didn't feel a sense of connection with my club once I was in my teenage years. If I had played for a small rural club with 16 minor players (like the one that played against my club in a minor county final a few years back) I might have felt differently.

But I think the big clubs would feel very threatened if they thought a small club might start pulling some of those players away, even though they themselves can't really cater to everyone. Certainly when we were fighting for use of a pitch this was one of the reasons that club (I don't use their name anymore) named for not wanting to share.

It's a trade-off though, because as you say, big clubs are way better set up to do things like put coaching structures in place to help players develop into really serious athletes and intercounty players and stuff. But in terms of fostering mass participation the small clubs are beneficial too. I think both are needed, but there is no appetite among the big clubs in Dublin to really encourage teams that they would regard as their competition. It's understandable, and I think the big clubs everywhere would be the same (there is no good reason why there's only three clubs in Kilkenny City for example), but in terms of the future of the sport(s) I think a mix is needed.

Bonniedog

Commiserations on the semi final Realt, Good going to get that far so quickly.