The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

StupidLikeAFox

Dublin should absolutely get the most money from the GAA - no issue there. Should they be getting the many multiples, over and above the next county? In my opinion they should not. I think they received 12 times more than the next county between 2007 and 2017. That is very disproportionate.

We have the scenario where the richest team is getting the biggest leg up. Mental stuff. It doesn't take away from the incredible efforts of the Dublin team, management, volunteers etc but it still isn't fair.

Dublin getting more from their sponsors is because their staff are good at what they do and they have been successful.

Do you genuinely believe any other team (outside maybe the top 3/4 teams) could negotiate the package Dublin have with AIG (+ others) if they got some "good staff"?

The Lost Sheep

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Dublin should absolutely get the most money from the GAA - no issue there. Should they be getting the many multiples, over and above the next county? In my opinion they should not. I think they received 12 times more than the next county between 2007 and 2017. That is very disproportionate.

We have the scenario where the richest team is getting the biggest leg up. Mental stuff. It doesn't take away from the incredible efforts of the Dublin team, management, volunteers etc but it still isn't fair.


Do you genuinely believe any other team (outside maybe the top 3/4 teams) could negotiate the package Dublin have with AIG (+ others) if they got some "good staff"?

sorry phrases it wrong. They have huge market. Sponsors see that and love it. Their staff can use that market to attract themselves to sponsors that other counties wont ever be able to dream about. Splitting Dublin isnt the answer to anything. Splitting dublin doesnt fix leinster championship which is so weak these days and that weakness is nothing to do with Dublin as so many counties have taken steps backwards

StupidLikeAFox

ArielAtom wrote: »

This is the crux of the matter. It is your perception that Dublin are the problem. Mayo and Kerry have put it up to Dublin in recent AI finals. So the population argument falls there, funding as you keep denying has been for games development and not for the senior team. You can put forward flawed arguments about freeing up funds for same, but the fact of the matter is that games development funding is exactly that. You keep posting the same factually wrong argument.

Games Development Funding in 31 counties is to promote the games across a county or section of the county. Games development funding in Dublin is to help employ full time coaches in their clubs - these are responsible for developing all levels of the club, not just juveniles as some people have incorrectly insinuated.

There is a difference here - By the time a Dublin intercounty player is 18 he will receive many multiples of *professional* coaching hours compared to an intercounty player in any other county.

ArielAtom

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Games Development Funding in 31 counties is to promote the games across a county or section of the county. Games development funding in Dublin is to help employ full time coaches in their clubs - these are responsible for developing all levels of the club, not just juveniles as some people have incorrectly insinuated.

There is a difference here - By the time a Dublin intercounty player is 18 he will receive many multiples of *professional* coaching hours compared to an intercounty player in any other county.

I'm afraid that is where you are factually incorrect. I have been involved in a group that is now 2nd year minor. They have had in 12yrs approx 3hrs direct coaching from the GDO in the club. Their role is mostly taken up in coaching and developing in schools.

gaffer91

ArielAtom wrote: »

This is the crux of the matter. It is your perception that Dublin are the problem. Mayo and Kerry have put it up to Dublin in recent AI finals. So the population argument falls there, funding as you keep denying has been for games development and not for the senior team. You can put forward flawed arguments about freeing up funds for same, but the fact of the matter is that games development funding is exactly that. You keep posting the same factually wrong argument.

You know, this post actually does indicate you've at least read people's posts so I want to thank you and congratulate you for that- fair play.

But it's not just my perception- it's the perception of most GAA members and supporters outside Dublin, and indeed many within Dublin too.

The population argument doesn't fall at all- it's an unfair advantage. Dublin have more success than they otherwise would with a population that wasn't such a massive statistical outlier.

Funding doesn't just include games development- why do you and other people who want to destroy gaelic games by leaving Dublin funding untouched always ignore the sponsorship funding?

And we've shown that the Games Development funding does help the senior team- both by the diminished opportunity cost of other spending and also by the fact that human beings age with the passage of time (shocking stuff, I know). I will concede the games development doesn't just help the senior intercounty side- younger teams and Dublin clubs are doing much better than they previously had before the influx of funding.

So my argument isn't factually wrong at all. Dublin GAA is favoured and unfairly advantaged compared to every other county. How do we mitigate these advantages? Simple, split them into four teams.

StupidLikeAFox

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Games Development Funding in 31 counties is to promote the games across a county or section of the county. Games development funding in Dublin is to help employ full time coaches in their clubs

As has been pointed out, most of the GDOs spend their time promoting the game in various schools across the county, which is exactly what you're stating happens in every other county..

RedDevil55 wrote: »

Mayo receive less games development funding than Galway, Roscommon & Sligo and only slightly more than Leitrim despite the huge difference in population. Dublin are the only outlier when it comes to central GAA funding.

Fair comment. Some of the other posters are claiming, however, that all funding should be shared equally. And Mayo dwarfs everybody out Wesht in that category. Should Mayo be split, to give Roscommon a fighting chance?

gaffer91 wrote: »

Funding should be pooled and equalised regardless of any other changes.......Like I said before, it's the combination of funding + population + other advantages that mean Dublin need to be split four ways- not any of these things individually.

A load of nonsense, which dodges the points that were put to you. so here it is, in plain English. A simple yes or no will suffice:

If Dublin should be split because they have more of a funding and/or population advantage over other counties, should Mayo also be split because they have a similar, though smaller, advantage over most of the other counties also?

gaffer91 wrote: »

Funding doesn't just include games development- why do you and other people who want to destroy gaelic games by leaving Dublin funding untouched always ignore the sponsorship funding?

Emotive, hyperbolic, tugging at the heart strings nonsense.......Big bad Dublin are destroying the game. Boo hoo

"Your county pulls in more sponsorship than mine, so we should all share it evenly!"

blanch152

RedDevil55 wrote: »

No interest in player development?! Ffs.

There are 4 full time coaches in Mayo and 2 part time. Mayo get 65k per year of games development funding which only covers 2 salaries. The county board has to find the rest of the money elsewhere.

As you well know, Dublin receive 1.6 million per year from Croke Park, enough to pay around 50 full time coaches. Please leave mayo out of your rants in future.

Mayo spend by far the most on the senior inter-county football team. That makes the wasting of money relevant to them. At the same time, they have one of the worst county boards in the country, that makes the wasting of money relevant to them.

blanch152

gaffer91 wrote: »

You know, this post actually does indicate you've at least read people's posts so I want to thank you and congratulate you for that- fair play.

But it's not just my perception- it's the perception of most GAA members and supporters outside Dublin, and indeed many within Dublin too.

The population argument doesn't fall at all- it's an unfair advantage. Dublin have more success than they otherwise would with a population that wasn't such a massive statistical outlier.

Funding doesn't just include games development- why do you and other people who want to destroy gaelic games by leaving Dublin funding untouched always ignore the sponsorship funding?

And we've shown that the Games Development funding does help the senior team- both by the diminished opportunity cost of other spending and also by the fact that human beings age with the passage of time (shocking stuff, I know). I will concede the games development doesn't just help the senior intercounty side- younger teams and Dublin clubs are doing much better than they previously had before the influx of funding.

So my argument isn't factually wrong at all. Dublin GAA is favoured and unfairly advantaged compared to every other county. How do we mitigate these advantages? Simple, split them into four teams.

You want the GAA to stop spending money on coaching kids in Dublin schools, because somehow you believe that there is a direct connection between coaching kids in schools and inter-county success, and the reason you want this to happen is so that your county Kerry can have greater success? Do you understand why people find it hard to take your posts seriously?

blanch152

ArielAtom wrote: »

I'm afraid that is where you are factually incorrect. I have been involved in a group that is now 2nd year minor. They have had in 12yrs approx 3hrs direct coaching from the GDO in the club. Their role is mostly taken up in coaching and developing in schools.

A relative plays in a suburban Dublin club and will be minor next year. Each child is contributing €20 towards getting some S&C training.

The GDOs are almost always in schools and very rarely in clubs. The clubs benefit by having kids get interested in schools and come along to the clubs at weekends.

BarryD2

gaffer91 wrote: »

You know, this post actually does indicate you've at least read people's posts so I want to thank you and congratulate you for that- fair play.

But it's not just my perception- it's the perception of most GAA members and supporters outside Dublin, and indeed many within Dublin too.

The population argument doesn't fall at all- it's an unfair advantage. Dublin have more success than they otherwise would with a population that wasn't such a massive statistical outlier.

Funding doesn't just include games development- why do you and other people who want to destroy gaelic games by leaving Dublin funding untouched always ignore the sponsorship funding?

And we've shown that the Games Development funding does help the senior team- both by the diminished opportunity cost of other spending and also by the fact that human beings age with the passage of time (shocking stuff, I know). I will concede the games development doesn't just help the senior intercounty side- younger teams and Dublin clubs are doing much better than they previously had before the influx of funding.

So my argument isn't factually wrong at all. Dublin GAA is favoured and unfairly advantaged compared to every other county. How do we mitigate these advantages? Simple, split them into four teams.

Ah just let them at it Gaffer and they'll be bored after another 10 years or so.

dunnerc

BarryD2 wrote: »

Ah just let them at it Gaffer and they'll be bored after another 10 years or so.

You reckon ?:D

The_Honeybadger

blanch152 wrote: »

A relative plays in a suburban Dublin club and will be minor next year. Each child is contributing €20 towards getting some S&C training.

The GDOs are almost always in schools and very rarely in clubs. The clubs benefit by having kids get interested in schools and come along to the clubs at weekends.

I don’t think that is fully correct my understanding is that the GDO’s are 50% funded by the clubs and their role is to promote the games and attract players to the clubs, coordinate coaching and player development and coach the volunteer coaches to ensure best practice through the different grades. There was a programme on tv a while back that showed the work they are doing and the ones that were interviewed were heavily involved with the clubs. It’s a great model in fairness.

RedDevil55

blanch152 wrote: »

Mayo spend by far the most on the senior inter-county football team. That makes the wasting of money relevant to them. At the same time, they have one of the worst county boards in the country, that makes the wasting of money relevant to them.

Most of the Mayo figure goes on travelling expenses. The players based in Galway, Limerick and Dublin get the same expenses per mile as other intercounty teams. Mayo were the only team who had to play a game in New York in 2019 as well as the various other away games. That's why it's higher than other counties.

Anyway that's completely irrelevant to my original comment. Games development funding is used to pay the salaries of coaches. It's not handing a ball of cash to county boards to do as they please. So there's no excuse for not distributing it more evenly between every county.

RedDevil55

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Fair comment. Some of the other posters are claiming, however, that all funding should be shared equally. And Mayo dwarfs everybody out Wesht in that category. Should Mayo be split, to give Roscommon a fighting chance?

I would be in favour of say 10% of every county's sponsorship/fundraising income going into a central pot and redistributed to those who need it most. That could be hard to police however as big counties would try and hide some income.

The easiest thing to do is distribute the games development funding in a more socialist way. The struggling counties get the most help.

StupidLikeAFox

ArielAtom wrote: »

I'm afraid that is where you are factually incorrect. I have been involved in a group that is now 2nd year minor. They have had in 12yrs approx 3hrs direct coaching from the GDO in the club. Their role is mostly taken up in coaching and developing in schools.

Deleted User wrote: »

As has been pointed out, most of the GDOs spend their time promoting the game in various schools across the county, which is exactly what you're stating happens in every other county..

blanch152 wrote: »

The GDOs are almost always in schools and very rarely in clubs. The clubs benefit by having kids get interested in schools and come along to the clubs at weekends.

Lads I made this point ages ago on the thread and pointed out to where the responsibilities were described in job descriptions, profiles on teams GAA pages and the GAAs own annual reports on games development. The GPOs in Dublin are aligned to a club and the are responsible for underage training in there. They are also responsible for training the other trainers in the club. Yes they go to schools and run things like nurseries in the club, but they are also responsible for developing talent in the club.

This model has clearly worked extremely well and its something other clubs outside Dublin should have access to. The mad thing is that the GAA will co fund these positions in clubs that could be 500k in membership fees alone - rich clubs who could likely afford to employee these without the help of GAA HQ. This is a facility that has only been available to Dublin clubs which is where the unfairness comes in imo.

I don't think its anti-Dublin to say that Dublin have gotten special attention, focus and funding over the past 15 years and its been incredibly successful - maybe its time we focussed on counties to level the playing field a bit?

blanch152

RedDevil55 wrote: »

Most of the Mayo figure goes on travelling expenses. The players based in Galway, Limerick and Dublin get the same expenses per mile as other intercounty teams. Mayo were the only team who had to play a game in New York in 2019 as well as the various other away games. That's why it's higher than other counties.

Anyway that's completely irrelevant to my original comment. Games development funding is used to pay the salaries of coaches. It's not handing a ball of cash to county boards to do as they please. So there's no excuse for not distributing it more evenly between every county.

The expenses for New York are heavily subsidised by the GAA. In fact, it is a benefit as adding on a training camp in a warm-weather location is relatively cheap as a result.

Games development funding needs to be allocated by population size as otherwise every 10-year old in Leitrim would get a personal coach.

RedDevil55

blanch152 wrote: »

The expenses for New York are heavily subsidised by the GAA. In fact, it is a benefit as adding on a training camp in a warm-weather location is relatively cheap as a result.

Games development funding needs to be allocated by population size as otherwise every 10-year old in Leitrim would get a personal coach.

Counties get a grant from the Connacht Council for travelling to new york but it still gets added on to the senior team expenses.

Obviously Leitrim and Dublin shouldn't get the same amount of GDF but if we want a competitive intercounty championship in 20 years time, the current division of funds need to change.

ArielAtom

blanch152 wrote: »

A relative plays in a suburban Dublin club and will be minor next year. Each child is contributing €20 towards getting some S&C training.

The GDOs are almost always in schools and very rarely in clubs. The clubs benefit by having kids get interested in schools and come along to the clubs at weekends.

My lad was 1st minor last year and a €50.00 fee towards S&C was paid. Our GDO spends more time looking after non club people in schools than he does coaching the coaches. But let’s not facts get in the way of a good rant by some here. Just as well there was no social media when Kirry were being financially doped to all their success by Kerry Group.

tritium

gaffer91 wrote: »

Did you actually read anything I posted? You *immediately* bounced back in with "why not split Kerry" when I gave reasons then (and have done many times previously too) why the two are different. You didn't respond to any of the issues I raised either.

Try to actually comprehend things before you come back blindly regurgitating the same tripe.

Splitting Dublin will help other teams by ensuring there is still a semblance of a competition to compete in rather than the uncompetitive farce which the All-Ireland is currently descending into. No-one will be watching in 10 years if things continue on their current trajectory. If you want to see the future of the All Ireland championship, look at the Leinster championship.

There are other problems with the inter-county game but Dublin are the main problem. Nothing else even comes close.

It's likely you won't read this post either but will come back with some combination of "no-one said anything about Kilkenny" or "Dublin have the best volunteers" or some other tired, debunked cliche.

Why would they read anything you’ve posted when all of your tired old arguments have already been thoroughly debunked in this thread. When you’re willing to acknowledge the generations of administrative and financial doping in Munster then maybe we’ll have some common ground to work from. At present all the GAA funding seems to have done is create a second viable and consistent contender. I’m all for more viable, consistent contenders by the way, but dismantling the template for it seems a foolish start (albeit it may be attractive to supporters of those 3 or 4 counties who benefit from a weak dublin)

BarryD2

All this talk of financial doping might put you in mind that the FAI could be in the ha'penny place when it comes to 'funny money'...........

RedDevil55

RedDevil55 wrote: »

I would be in favour of say 10% of every county's sponsorship/fundraising income going into a central pot and redistributed to those who need it most. That could be hard to police however as big counties would try and hide some income.

The easiest thing to do is distribute the games development funding in a more socialist way. The struggling counties get the most help.

Again, that's fair and reasonable. I was under the impression that this had already begun over the last few years and the funding for Dublin has dried up, so to speak.

However, that is not what our Kerry friend is asking for though, he's determined to have his pound of flesh and has posted on nothing but Dublin related threads since the AI final replay. It must sting, deep down. He's just as crazy about them as we are, that's how intoxicating they are.

PM us your address there Gaffer, I'll send you a Dubs jersey for the Chrimbo.

The_Honeybadger

Even if you too away all state funding for Dublin GAA at this stage I’m not sure it would effect results on the field. There is no doubt in my mind the funding was a catalyst for their success but they have reached a critical mass now and would make up any shortfall through increased commercial activity and fundraising.

The conversation needs to shift to how the GAA can elevate other counties, particularly those that are struggling, but across the board. The championship structure is all wrong imo and until you give these counties something meaningful to play for over the summer you are at nothing throwing money at it.

tritium

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Even if you too away all state funding for Dublin GAA at this stage I’m not sure it would effect results on the field. There is no doubt in my mind the funding was a catalyst for their success but they have reached a critical mass now and would make up any shortfall through increased commercial activity and fundraising.

The conversation needs to shift to how the GAA can elevate other counties, particularly those that are struggling, but across the board. The championship structure is all wrong imo and until you give these counties something meaningful to play for over the summer you are at nothing throwing money at it.

While I don’t agree with all your points above, this is overall a more sensible view. The way I see it the level of funding for development, if unchecked, would have the potential to create the same kind of sustained imbalance that Kerry’s advantages over the last century or so have created in Munster.

I’d like to see the GAA take the dublin experiment and extend it to a number of traditionally stronger counties, cork, Meath or Galway for example, and see if the same outcomes can be generated. At the same time, while it’s probably unrealistic to just fund full time coaches for all smaller clubs, there’s no reason that it can’t be done on a coach per X players basis for example with every club having access to the resource, possibly with a sensible floor and ceiling being applied to ensure weaker counties aren’t left behind. Interestingly that seems to be the direction the GAA is minded to go based on earlier posts on this thread.

gaffer91

Deleted User wrote: »

A load of nonsense, which dodges the points that were put to you. so here it is, in plain English. A simple yes or no will suffice:

If Dublin should be split because they have more of a funding and/or population advantage over other counties, should Mayo also be split because they have a similar, though smaller, advantage over most of the other counties also?

What is the point in a yes or no answer without a justification? You would just draw your own inferences on the justification then, and given your track record, you would certainly come to the wrong conclusion.

The answer is no, Mayo should not be split. It is the combination of the duration, scale and nature of the advantages Dublin enjoy that mean they should be split.

Dublin are a massive outlier in funding and population. No-one else even comes close. The relative and absolute nature of the funding/ population differences between Mayo and Leitrim are much smaller than the differences between Dublin and every other county.

Dublin, and Dublin alone, is a unique county in terms of unfair population, funding and other advantages. Dublin, and Dublin alone, should be split.

Deleted User wrote: »

Emotive, hyperbolic, tugging at the heart strings nonsense.......Big bad Dublin are destroying the game. Boo hoo

"Your county pulls in more sponsorship than mine, so we should all share it evenly!"

Dublin are destroying the game at inter-county level because of their dominance built from their unfair advantages.

The GAA is a community sporting organisation with an amateur ethos. Sharing sponsorship so that all counties benefit would be in keeping with that and would help their showpiece event (i.e the All Ireland championship). Dublin get more sponsorship because they have the largest market, not because of their innate brilliance.

tritium wrote: »

Why would they read anything you’ve posted when all of your tired old arguments have already been thoroughly debunked in this thread. When you’re willing to acknowledge the generations of administrative and financial doping in Munster then maybe we’ll have some common ground to work from. At present all the GAA funding seems to have done is create a second viable and consistent contender. I’m all for more viable, consistent contenders by the way, but dismantling the template for it seems a foolish start (albeit it may be attractive to supporters of those 3 or 4 counties who benefit from a weak dublin)

We already discussed this- you were wrong then and you're still wrong today.

All I'm willing to acknowledge is that Dublin are unfairly advantaged compared to every other county because of their population, funding, home pitch and other advantages. They should be split to help mitigate the effects of this.

gaffer91

blanch152 wrote: »

You want the GAA to stop spending money on coaching kids in Dublin schools, because somehow you believe that there is a direct connection between coaching kids in schools and inter-county success, and the reason you want this to happen is so that your county Kerry can have greater success? Do you understand why people find it hard to take your posts seriously?

See this is the problem- you approach this argument with the question " what is best for Dublin?" and try to get things to fit this argument. I approach it from " what is best for the GAA?". It's not about helping other counties win Sam Maguire or about harming Dublin- it's about ensuring the survival of the games.

I want the GAA to ensure a level playing field and for all counties to be funded more equitably. Dublin children are not more deserving than children around the country.

The Games Development money has significantly helped the Dublin intercounty teams as has been shown. This is because the money helps develop players who then grow older, as humans tend to do. No other county has access to the same level of funding. And it saves the Dublin County Board from directing other funding towards Games Development.

GDOs help clubs and schools- StupidLikeAFox has already dealt with this so read his/her posts for more insight into this.

BarryD2

Methinks Gaffer, that you're farting against the wind when it comes to this argument.

dunnerc

BarryD2 wrote: »

Methinks Gaffer, that you're farting against the wind when it comes to this argument.

Methinks its a nonsense argument :rolleyes:

blanch152

gaffer91 wrote: »

See this is the problem- you approach this argument with the question " what is best for Dublin?" and try to get things to fit this argument. I approach it from " what is best for the GAA?". It's not about helping other counties win Sam Maguire or about harming Dublin- it's about ensuring the survival of the games.

I want the GAA to ensure a level playing field and for all counties to be funded more equitably. Dublin children are not more deserving than children around the country.

The Games Development money has significantly helped the Dublin intercounty teams as has been shown. This is because the money helps develop players who then grow older, as humans tend to do. No other county has access to the same level of funding. And it saves the Dublin County Board from directing other funding towards Games Development.

GDOs help clubs and schools- StupidLikeAFox has already dealt with this so read his/her posts for more insight into this.

A level playing field is a good idea, that means splitting the two most successful counties - Dublin and Kerry, and amalgamating 15-20 others.

After all, you wouldn’t want Dublin split so that Kerry win six-in-a-row, asterisked of course.

gaffer91

blanch152 wrote: »

A level playing field is a good idea, that means splitting the two most successful counties - Dublin and Kerry, and amalgamating 15-20 others.

After all, you wouldn’t want Dublin split so that Kerry win six-in-a-row, asterisked of course.

Once again- you are simply looking at the outcomes. What's more important are the inputs into those outcomes. In Dublin's case that includes massively unfair advantages like population and funding advantages. Even if Dublin didn't win the next five All Irelands they should still be split. People don't have problems with success if it comes fairly, for example with Kilkenny. This isn't the case with Dublin.

This has been explained countless times already. You know, of all the terrible arguments you come up with, "what about splitting Kerry/Kilkenny so?" is probably the weakest. But after all this time you still see it thrown out there.

beggars_bush

blanch152 wrote: »

A level playing field is a good idea, that means splitting the two most successful counties - Dublin and Kerry, and amalgamating 15-20 others.

After all, you wouldn’t want Dublin split so that Kerry win six-in-a-row, asterisked of course.

The dubs seem to have a major bee in their bonnets about Kerry all the time
It's not Kerry's fault that they won all those AIs before Dublin got their Bertie Bonus every year

ArielAtom

The irony😂😂😂😂😂😂

grbear

tritium wrote: »

I’d like to see the GAA take the dublin experiment and extend it to a number of traditionally stronger counties, cork, Meath or Galway for example, and see if the same outcomes can be generated.

I'd have to disagree with this approach being adopted. I can't speak much about Cork or Meath but I can talk a bit more about Galway.

Last week it was confirmed that Galway GAA posted a loss of €260000 for 2019. The main contributing factors were:
1. Collapse in fundraising income from over €860000 to €144000
2. Reduced revenues due to the early exits of the hurlers and footballers from the championship
3. No concert in Pearse Stadium
4. Cost of holiday for the hurlers (I'm taking that from this week's Connacht Tribune)
5. €140000 being spent on a legal case involving a local media outlet (don't know much about that)

Obviously losing that much money isn't sustainable and there are clearly items listed there that Croke Park can't help with but there are two points on that list that they could help address, the lack of concert revenue and the fundraising income.

I'm not saying Galway GAA should just sit back and expect Croke Park to deliver them a big fat payday by sending the likes of Stormzy down to Salthill each summer but long-term it'd make more sense, in my opinion anyway, to help Galway grow the amount of money they bring in and fund additional coaches that way.
Give extra funding to counties whose chances to grow their incomes are more limited.

Dots1982

Question- At what point with no new counties emerging and the same old counties lifting silverwear every year does everyone just say fcuk it..we’ve being playing All Ireland’s for 150 years. The teams that won it the most in that time have
proved they were the best. Now with the championship so boring and repetitive let’s tear it all up and invent a new format?

The_Honeybadger

Dots1982 wrote: »

Question- At what point with no new counties emerging and the same old counties lifting silverwear every year does everyone just say fcuk it..we’ve being playing All Ireland’s for 150 years. The teams that won it the most in that time have
proved they were the best. Now with the championship so boring and repetitive let’s tear it all up and invent a new format?

We are past that point imo. Teams outside Division 1 (and even some teams in Div 1) have continual difficulty getting their best 26 to commit to their respective panels. The sacrifice required to play senior inter county is unsustainable and many good players are deciding that it is not worth it.

Dots1982

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

We are past that point imo. Teams outside Division 1 (and even some teams in Div 1) have continual difficulty getting their best 26 to commit to their respective panels. The sacrifice required to play senior inter county is unsustainable and many good players are deciding that it is not worth it.

That’s a significant cost to even big counties like Kildare. Our maybe best player Dan Flynn mused in an interview “was the juice worth the squeeze?” For him it frequently isn’t.

Dots1982

I wouldn’t say the intercounty system has ran its course yet but if the next 10 years work out how they look now: Dublin and Kerry carve-up with only Cork threatening then it’s time to say....well done Kerry, also well done Dublin. Ye won Gaelic football as we knew it.

Now time to move on to newer better things coz this is boring the fcuk out of everyone...

tritium

beggars_bush wrote: »

The dubs seem to have a major bee in their bonnets about Kerry all the time
It's not Kerry's fault that they won all those AIs before Dublin got their Bertie Bonus every year

The Kerry lads seem to have a major bee in their bonnets about Dublin on this thread.
It’s not Dublin's fault that they’re not being given handy all Ireland’s anymore....


Oh, wait, I guess it is...:pac: :pac: :pac:

Dyr

gaffer91 wrote: »

People don't have problems with success if it comes fairly, for example with Kilkenny. This isn't the case with Dublin.

Ah yes, the county that refused to fund Gaelic Football. Sounds fair alright

kilns

gaffer91 wrote: »

Once again- you are simply looking at the outcomes. What's more important are the inputs into those outcomes. In Dublin's case that includes massively unfair advantages like population and funding advantages. Even if Dublin didn't win the next five All Irelands they should still be split. People don't have problems with success if it comes fairly, for example with Kilkenny. This isn't the case with Dublin.

This has been explained countless times already. You know, of all the terrible arguments you come up with, "what about splitting Kerry/Kilkenny so?" is probably the weakest. But after all this time you still see it thrown out there.

Where does it stop though? Why arent Galway and Mayo split then so that Leitrim can compete fairly with them. Its a rabbit hole.

As things stand the county system is what is in place and it will always be unfair. In order to create a level playing field it would have to be dramatically overhauled

Dr. Bre

We must be near summertime as this thread has reopened!

Gael85

Dr. Bre wrote: »

We must be near summertime as this thread has reopened!

School holidays.

Hammer Archer

Dr. Bre wrote: »

We must be near summertime as this thread has reopened!

Gael85 wrote: »

School holidays.

Mod: Don't like a thread, don't post in it. Simple as that. Nothing is forcing anyone to read it.

blanch152

gaffer91 wrote: »

Once again- you are simply looking at the outcomes. What's more important are the inputs into those outcomes. In Dublin's case that includes massively unfair advantages like population and funding advantages. Even if Dublin didn't win the next five All Irelands they should still be split. People don't have problems with success if it comes fairly, for example with Kilkenny. This isn't the case with Dublin.

This has been explained countless times already. You know, of all the terrible arguments you come up with, "what about splitting Kerry/Kilkenny so?" is probably the weakest. But after all this time you still see it thrown out there.

Kerry success has never come fairly. A provincial system weighted in their favour, sometimes having only three games to win an All-Ireland, are only two of the factors.

How will Waterford ever win a Munster Football Championship unless Kerry are split? Kerry have dominated the Championship for over a century to the extent that some of the counties just give up on football.

I would be happy with a level playing field. Splitting Dublin and Kerry would be part of creating a level playing field. Amalgamating other counties would be part of creating a level playing field.

Those who are just bitter, jealous and envious of Dublin success and have no interest in a level playing field are exposed whenever proposals like this are put on the table.

StupidLikeAFox

blanch152 wrote: »

I would be happy with a level playing field. Splitting Dublin and Kerry would be part of creating a level playing field.

I don't think splitting counties is the way to go personally. Would you be open to distributing the funds to some of the more weaker counties instead of focussing it on developing the talent in Dublin?

kilns

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

I don't think splitting counties is the way to go personally. Would you be open to distributing the funds to some of the more weaker counties instead of focussing it on developing the talent in Dublin?

what would be your criteria in distributing the funds? Lets say Leitrim who are the weakest. lets give them a million. Let give Mayo 50,000 considering they have reached a few All Irelands. Lets give Dublin nothing considering the current team are so strong. Let give Cork 250,000 considering they are poor at the moment. Lets give Galway 500,000 considering they are a basket case

blanch152

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

I don't think splitting counties is the way to go personally. Would you be open to distributing the funds to some of the more weaker counties instead of focussing it on developing the talent in Dublin?

The Games Development Funding in 2019 is more or less distributed on a per capita basis, with Dublin no longer the most heavily funded on a per capita basis, so job achieved.

As I pointed out numerous times, this money is directed at juvenile participation, and there has never been a causal link to senior inter-county success.

tritium

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

I don't think splitting counties is the way to go personally. Would you be open to distributing the funds to some of the more weaker counties instead of focussing it on developing the talent in Dublin?

I think most dublin posters on this thread have been open to a distribution of funds that helps weaker counties. However that would also inevitably mean other strong counties would also have to give up something. For example if we want to redistribute sponsorship to help weaker counties then Kerry receive a similar amount from Kerry Group as AIG give Dublin. We’d also need to ditch the nonsense that 250k “gifts” from wealthy benefactors to mayo are somehow “fundraising”, ie we’d need to be transparent about what counties get. There’s also a question with sponsorship of ensuring counties have an incentive to actually look for those deals.

In terms of games development I’d absolutely support funding for weaker counties. I think we need to ditch the notion though that every club big or small can have a coaching setup provided for them. Some sort of practical system to make sure that the resources are available, I don’t know how possibly x coaches for every Y members or per head of population. Maybe put a floor and ceiling in or use a two tier approach where more resources are segregated just for weaker counties. Just ideas, and as someone pointed out earlier, it needs a lot of work to make sure it’s actually used well.

The reality unfortunately is that the AI has never really been competitive. Leitrim or Carlow or London didn’t stop winning things because of dublin. We didn’t have four well competitive provinces before 2011. The GAA is basically built on imbalance. The question for those complaining about dublin is do they want a genuinely competitive game, like for example the NFL achieves in the states to a degree via drafts etc (not transferable, just to illustrate) or do they just want to go back to the old status quo where their counties significant advantages meant they were winning all the time? Is it about genuine fairness or is it about a few flat track bullies being upset because they’re no longer the biggest kid in the schoolyard?

Slattsy

JP's millions (possibly billions at this stage) into Limerick will need to be distributed fairly also...

gaffer91

blanch152 wrote: »

Kerry success has never come fairly. A provincial system weighted in their favour, sometimes having only three games to win an All-Ireland, are only two of the factors.

How will Waterford ever win a Munster Football Championship unless Kerry are split? Kerry have dominated the Championship for over a century to the extent that some of the counties just give up on football.

I would be happy with a level playing field. Splitting Dublin and Kerry would be part of creating a level playing field. Amalgamating other counties would be part of creating a level playing field.

Those who are just bitter, jealous and envious of Dublin success and have no interest in a level playing field are exposed whenever proposals like this are put on the table.

We had this exact conversation a few months back where you cited the provincial system and the fact Waterford are relatively unsuccessful compared to Kerry. What is the point in having the exact same argument again? You are still as wrong today as you were then.

You can argue the provinicals should be done away with- that's fine, Dublin will still have to be split. We haven't had a purely provincial system in almost 20 years I might add, complaining about a three game All Ireland in the 1970s is really clutching at straws.

You are trying to draw an absurd false equivalence between Kerry and Dublin. There is none. Dublin are unfairly favoured compared to every other county because of their population, financial and home pitch advantages. Once again, the important thing is the inputs into success, not just the success itself. Dublin have unfair advantages, Kerry don't. It's that simple really.

So it is only Dublin who need to be split. Voluntary amalgamations can be offered too. But Dublin will have to be split to help Gaelic games, voluntarily or involuntarily.

gaffer91

kilns wrote: »

Where does it stop though? Why arent Galway and Mayo split then so that Leitrim can compete fairly with them. Its a rabbit hole.

As things stand the county system is what is in place and it will always be unfair. In order to create a level playing field it would have to be dramatically overhauled

I already answered this in post 3675 in response to a similar question. To save me typing it out again, I've pasted the answer again below.

gaffer91 wrote: »

It is the combination of the duration, scale and nature of the advantages Dublin enjoy that mean they should be split.

Dublin are a massive outlier in funding and population. No-one else even comes close. The relative and absolute nature of the funding/ population differences between Mayo and Leitrim are much smaller than the differences between Dublin and every other county.

Dublin, and Dublin alone, is a unique county in terms of unfair population, funding and other advantages. Dublin, and Dublin alone, should be split.