The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

Happyilylost

kilns wrote: »

what would be your criteria in distributing the funds? Lets say Leitrim who are the weakest. lets give them a million. Let give Mayo 50,000 considering they have reached a few All Irelands. Lets give Dublin nothing considering the current team are so strong. Let give Cork 250,000 considering they are poor at the moment. Lets give Galway 500,000 considering they are a basket case

That's Mr. Basket case to you sir.

kilns

gaffer91 wrote: »

I already answered this in post 3675 in response to a similar question. To save me typing it out again, I've pasted the answer again below.

Your answer will still not solve the inequality that the current inter county brings, its not just Dublin that has an advantage over other counties, they just happen to be the biggest. When was the last time Leitrim beat Mayo or Galway in a championship game? Why dont we give the Leitrims of this world a change in their province by bring Mayo and Galway into line with their population etc and then splitting Dublin into 10 or 20 pieces.

Splitting one county is not going to solve any issues long term its a knee jerk and short sighted reaction to a currently dominate team

gaffer91

kilns wrote: »

Your answer will still not solve the inequality that the current inter county brings, its not just Dublin that has an advantage over other counties, they just happen to be the biggest. When was the last time Leitrim beat Mayo or Galway in a championship game? Why dont we give the Leitrims of this world a change in their province by bring Mayo and Galway into line with their population etc and then splitting Dublin into 10 or 20 pieces.

Splitting one county is not going to solve any issues long term its a knee jerk and short sighted reaction to a currently dominate team

Did you even read the post? It's not just the population difference, it's the sheer scale of it, combined with the duration and scale of other advantages, including funding. So it's the combination of the advantages, the sheer scale of them compared to every other difference and the duration they have had these advantages for, that mean Dublin should be split. Differences between other counties don't even come close to the differences between Dublin and everyone else- especially when all these advantages for Dublin are looked at in their totality.

I find it curious that Leitrim are cited so often, a county that are the other statistical outlier, albeit in the opposite direction to Dublin. Regardless, splitting Dublin will help Leitrim by ensuring there is still a viable All-Ireland competition in the future.

So splitting Dublin will solve a lot of issues.

tritium

gaffer91 wrote: »

We had this exact conversation a few months back where you cited the provincial system and the fact Waterford are relatively unsuccessful compared to Kerry. What is the point in having the exact same argument again? You are still as wrong today as you were then.

You can argue the provinicals should be done away with- that's fine, Dublin will still have to be split. We haven't had a purely provincial system in almost 20 years I might add, complaining about a three game All Ireland in the 1970s is really clutching at straws.

You are trying to draw an absurd false equivalence between Kerry and Dublin. There is none. Dublin are unfairly favoured compared to every other county because of their population, financial and home pitch advantages. Once again, the important thing is the inputs into success, not just the success itself. Dublin have unfair advantages, Kerry don't. It's that simple really.

So it is only Dublin who need to be split. Voluntary amalgamations can be offered too. But Dublin will have to be split to help Gaelic games, voluntarily or involuntarily.

You can wear those rose tinted glasses all you like but the reality is the evidence of the last 93 pages doesn’t support your position. You may want to tell yourself that Kerry won all those trophies on the back of pure skill alone on a level playing field but the reality is a long history of administrative help, strong sponsorship and financial backing and the odd downright unfair cash injection from corporate donors more than helped them over the line. If there’s a question mark in you head over this dublin teams achievement then there should be the same question mark there over pretty much anything Kerry have achieved

In the interests of giving you a chance to show how you actually care about the game, and not just Kerry’s seat at the top table, let’s take dublin out of the picture for a second, a thought experiment if you will- Dublin's gone and you Gaffer91 now control the gaa purse strings. Tell us your plan and timescales to make Leitrim Carlow and Wicklow into all ireland challengers?

gaffer91

tritium wrote: »

You can wear those rose tinted glasses all you like but the reality is the evidence of the last 93 pages doesn’t support your position. You may want to tell yourself that Kerry won all those trophies on the back of pure skill alone on a level playing field but the reality is a long history of administrative help, strong sponsorship and financial backing and the odd downright unfair cash injection from corporate donors more than helped them over the line. If there’s a question mark in you head over this dublin teams achievement then there should be the same question mark there over pretty much anything Kerry have achieved

Not at all - there's no comparison between the advantages Dublin have historically had, and still have today, and any other county. Dublin are more overfunded than any other team in history, including Kerry, Cork or anyone else. Kerry have never had a crazy population advantage and played Semi- finals and finals at home. It's the combination of the advantages, not any single thing alone. For instance, pre- financial doping, I was merely in favour of a two way split of Dublin.

There's a question mark over Dublin's success because they are uniquely advantaged in the current environment compared to any other Gaelic Football team, ever. When Dublin fans whinge "why was no-one complaining about Kilkenny/ Kerry/ any other dominant team", the answer is quite simple; no other team had the advantages that Dublin do.

tritium wrote: »

In the interests of giving you a chance to show how you actually care about the game, and not just Kerry’s seat at the top table, let’s take dublin out of the picture for a second, a thought experiment if you will- Dublin's gone and you Gaffer91 now control the gaa purse strings. Tell us your plan and timescales to make Leitrim Carlow and Wicklow into all ireland challengers?

No point in being dragged off topic here. Feel free to start another thread on that if you want. To give a very brief answer however, I have long argued in favour of pooling all funding from all sources, and dividing more equitably between counties, particularly the spends on inter-county teams, after certain variables are accounted for (e.g mileage).

kilns

gaffer91 wrote: »

Did you even read the post? It's not just the population difference, it's the sheer scale of it, combined with the duration and scale of other advantages, including funding. So it's the combination of the advantages, the sheer scale of them compared to every other difference and the duration they have had these advantages for, that mean Dublin should be split. Differences between other counties don't even come close to the differences between Dublin and everyone else- especially when all these advantages for Dublin are looked at in their totality.

I find it curious that Leitrim are cited so often, a county that are the other statistical outlier, albeit in the opposite direction to Dublin. Regardless, splitting Dublin will help Leitrim by ensuring there is still a viable All-Ireland competition in the future.

So splitting Dublin will solve a lot of issues.

Splitting Dublin as i said would only solve a short sighted problem and ignore everything else, it is not a solution, its Healy-Rae type stuff - coming up with a solultion to solves the needs of those immediately involved but not taking the national interest into account. Do Galway and Mayo, Kerry and Cork, Kildare or Meath enjoy much more advantages than the Leitrims, Waterfords and Longfords of this world, yes they do. So why not level the whole playing field instead of making one current dominant team weaker. The All Ireland series would still be only viably contested by a very few select counties who have the resources to compete. Do you agree this is fair? or are you advocating a 2 tier all Ireland championship and those less counties who have less resources go into the 2nd tier and leave the All Ireland to be competed by those who can compete in it?

gaffer91

gaffer91 wrote: »

What is the point in having the exact same argument again? You are still as wrong today as you were then.

Swiftly followed by......

gaffer91 wrote: »

I already answered this in post 3675 in response to a similar question. To save me typing it out again, I've pasted the answer again below.

The ironing is delicious. Just because you've already said something doesn't make it factually correct.

gaffer91 wrote: »

So splitting Dublin will solve a lot of issues.

It won't solve anything for 18+ counties, but it will have a huge impact for the 'also-rans', which, by sheer coincidence, includes your own county (who were involved in 7 AI finals out of 8 before this current Dublin team came of age, lest we forget).

Your reasoning for splitting Dublin is pathetic and belies your true intentions. The gap between Kerry and Dublin is a lot closer than the gap between Kerry and 90% of the rest of the counties involved in football. But you won't even entertain the notion of splitting Kerry to make it fairer for everyone. I'd happily vote to split Dublin, if the other big boys followed suit........but......as I've already stated, this campaign to split Dublin in two/four/eight has nothing to do with helping the weaker counties and everything to do with helping Kerry get back to where they belong, challenging for All-Irelands.

G'way an sh1te, ffs.

kilns

gaffer91 wrote: »

Not at all - there's no comparison between the advantages Dublin have historically had, and still have today, and any other county. Dublin are more overfunded than any other team in history, including Kerry, Cork or anyone else. Kerry have never had a crazy population advantage and played Semi- finals and finals at home. It's the combination of the advantages, not any single thing alone. For instance, pre- financial doping, I was merely in favour of a two way split of Dublin.

There's a question mark over Dublin's success because they are uniquely advantaged in the current environment compared to any other Gaelic Football team, ever. When Dublin fans whinge "why was no-one complaining about Kilkenny/ Kerry/ any other dominant team", the answer is quite simple; no other team had the advantages that Dublin do.


No point in being dragged off topic here. Feel free to start another thread on that if you want. To give a very brief answer however, I have long argued in favour of pooling all funding from all sources, and dividing more equitably between counties, particularly the spends on inter-county teams, after certain variables are accounted for (e.g mileage).

How much do Kerry Group give Kerry GAA each year? How much did Kerry Group give Kerry GAA for their GAA centre in Currans?.

kilns

Deleted User wrote: »

Swiftly followed by......



The ironing is delicious. Just because you've already said something doesn't make it factually correct.



It won't solve anything for 18+ counties, but it will have a huge impact for the 'also-rans', which, by sheer coincidence, includes your own county (who were involved in 7 AI finals out of 8 before this current Dublin team came of age, lest we forget).

Your reasoning for splitting Dublin is pathetic and belies your true intentions. The gap between Kerry and Dublin is a lot closer than the gap between Kerry and 90% of the rest of the counties involved in football. But you won't even entertain the notion of splitting Kerry to make it fairer for everyone. I'd happily vote to split Dublin, if the other big boys followed suit........but......as I've already stated, this campaign to split Dublin in two/four/eight has nothing to do with helping the weaker counties and everything to do with helping Kerry get back to where they belong, challenging for All-Irelands.

G'way an sh1te, ffs.

Kerrys sponsorship funding is on par with AIGs of Dublin. I presume you would be happy to give this sponsorship to other counties?

gaffer91

Deleted User wrote: »

Swiftly followed by......


The ironing is delicious. Just because you've already said something doesn't make it factually correct.

Those were two different posters and the previous post I quoted hadn't been contested at all. There is no point in repeatedly posing the same questions if you aren't going to then deal with people's answers.

I tend to draw conclusions from facts unlike people like you who start at a conclusion (in this case "Dublin are winning things fairly") and then try desperately to find something, anything, that might back this up. So it stands to reason that my posts stand up to a lot more scrutiny than yours do.

Deleted User wrote: »

It won't solve anything for 18+ counties, but it will have a huge impact for the 'also-rans', which, by sheer coincidence, includes your own county (who were involved in 7 AI finals out of 8 before this current Dublin team came of age, lest we forget).

.

Splitting Dublin absolutely helps every county- it ensure there is a viable All Ireland competition into the future.

Deleted User wrote: »

Your reasoning for splitting Dublin is pathetic and belies your true intentions. The gap between Kerry and Dublin is a lot closer than the gap between Kerry and 90% of the rest of the counties involved in football. But you won't even entertain the notion of splitting Kerry to make it fairer for everyone. I'd happily vote to split Dublin, if the other big boys followed suit........but......as I've already stated, this campaign to split Dublin in two/four/eight has nothing to do with helping the weaker counties and everything to do with helping Kerry get back to where they belong, challenging for All-Irelands.

G'way an sh1te, ffs.

Not at all. My true intention is simple- do what is best for Gaelic games. In this case, this means splitting the Dublin inter-county teams. I have no intention to help, or indeed, to harm, any particular county.

Kerry don't have any unfair advantages- Dublin have many. That's why Dublin should be split, not just because of their success.

You're lying when you say you'd "happily vote to split Dublin"- this debate has shown you to be incredibly biased and partisan. You want to help Dublin at the expense of all other counties; even at the expense of the game itself.

gaffer91

kilns wrote: »

How much do Kerry Group give Kerry GAA each year? How much did Kerry Group give Kerry GAA for their GAA centre in Currans?.

Dublin get more funding from all sources than any other county, including Kerry. If you want to compare capital expenditure projects, you have to include things like Croke Park, the Games Development centre etc. Once again, it's clear that Dublin are uniquely favoured compared to everyone else.

dunnerc

gaffer91 wrote: »

Those were two different posters and the previous post I quoted hadn't been contested at all. There is no point in repeatedly posing the same questions if you aren't going to then deal with people's answers.

I tend to draw conclusions from facts unlike people like you who start at a conclusion (in this case "Dublin are winning things fairly") and then try desperately to find something, anything, that might back this up. So it stands to reason that my posts stand up to a lot more scrutiny than yours do.



Splitting Dublin absolutely helps every county- it ensure there is a viable All Ireland competition into the future.



Not at all. My true intention is simple- do what is best for Gaelic games. In this case, this means splitting the Dublin inter-county teams. I have no intention to help, or indeed, to harm, any particular county.

Kerry don't have any unfair advantages- Dublin have many. That's why Dublin should be split, not just because of their success.

You're lying when you say you'd "happily vote to split Dublin"- this debate has shown you to be incredibly biased and partisan. You want to help Dublin at the expense of all other counties; even at the expense of the game itself.

Only one person lying here , your fooling nobody :rolleyes:

kilns

gaffer91 wrote: »

Dublin get more funding from all sources than any other county, including Kerry. If you want to compare capital expenditure projects, you have to include things like Croke Park, the Games Development centre etc. Once again, it's clear that Dublin are uniquely favoured compared to everyone else.

I asked you a different question, do you know the answer

kilns

gaffer91 wrote: »

Those were two different posters and the previous post I quoted hadn't been contested at all. There is no point in repeatedly posing the same questions if you aren't going to then deal with people's answers.

I tend to draw conclusions from facts unlike people like you who start at a conclusion (in this case "Dublin are winning things fairly") and then try desperately to find something, anything, that might back this up. So it stands to reason that my posts stand up to a lot more scrutiny than yours do.



Splitting Dublin absolutely helps every county- it ensure there is a viable All Ireland competition into the future.



Not at all. My true intention is simple- do what is best for Gaelic games. In this case, this means splitting the Dublin inter-county teams. I have no intention to help, or indeed, to harm, any particular county.

Kerry don't have any unfair advantages- Dublin have many. That's why Dublin should be split, not just because of their success.

You're lying when you say you'd "happily vote to split Dublin"- this debate has shown you to be incredibly biased and partisan. You want to help Dublin at the expense of all other counties; even at the expense of the game itself.

So splitting Dublin gives Waterford, Longford, Leitrim, Antrim a better chance to win the All Ireland. Wow how simple split Dublin and everyone has a chance again just like the old days :rolleyes:

tritium

gaffer91 wrote: »

Did you even read the post? It's not just the population difference, it's the sheer scale of it, combined with the duration and scale of other advantages, including funding. So it's the combination of the advantages, the sheer scale of them compared to every other difference and the duration they have had these advantages for, that mean Dublin should be split. Differences between other counties don't even come close to the differences between Dublin and everyone else- especially when all these advantages for Dublin are looked at in their totality.

I find it curious that Leitrim are cited so often, a county that are the other statistical outlier, albeit in the opposite direction to Dublin. Regardless, splitting Dublin will help Leitrim by ensuring there is still a viable All-Ireland competition in the future.

So splitting Dublin will solve a lot of issues.

How can you use a term like duration when you’re oblivious to a situation in Munster that has gone on for over a century?

How exactly will Leitrim benefit in any way from addressing a recent phenomena when they’ve been unable to be competitive ever? You must take us for complete mugs peddling nonsense like that. How in the name of god has the AI ever been in any way “viable” for Leitrim.

gaffer91

kilns wrote: »

So splitting Dublin gives Waterford, Longford, Leitrim, Antrim a better chance to win the All Ireland. Wow how simple split Dublin and everyone has a chance again just like the old days :rolleyes:

It's not the only change but it's the single most important one. No-one will be watching or caring about inter- county football if the current Dublin domination built on unfair advantages continues.

So splitting Dublin will ensure other counties still have a competition to play in, so it will help them.

gaffer91

tritium wrote: »

How can you use a term like duration when you’re oblivious to a situation in Munster that has gone on for over a century?

How exactly will Leitrim benefit in any way from addressing a recent phenomena when they’ve been unable to be competitive ever? You must take us for complete mugs peddling nonsense like that. How in the name of god has the AI ever been in any way “viable” for Leitrim.

Dublin have unfair advantages, Kerry didn't and don't. How many times does this have to be pointed out. It's not just domination that's important, it's the inputs into it that are important.

If you wanted the provincials done away with- that's fine, Dublin will still have to be split.

See previous post for how splitting Dublin helps smaller counties.

Dyr

I'd imagine a lot of the splitting Dublin guff will take a back seat in 2020 as Kerry will reckon Jim Gavins departure gives their young bucks a chance. If it doesn't expect the yerrah chorus to reach a deafening crescendo in 2021

tritium

gaffer91 wrote: »

Dublin have unfair advantages, Kerry didn't and don't. How many times does this have to be pointed out. It's not just domination that's important, it's the inputs into it that are important.

If you wanted the provincials done away with- that's fine, Dublin will still have to be split.

See previous post for how splitting Dublin helps smaller counties.

As others have pointed out just because you want something to be true doesn’t actually make it true. Much as you may want to be able to tell yourself that Kerry’s success was all pure and fair, the uncomfortable evidence, as detailed earlier in this thread , gives a lie to that narrative. And you’ve provided absolutely nothing to refute that evidence. If anything Kerry’s advantages have been more insidious- at least dublin also had to deal with the established financial/administrative juggernaut that is Kerry, Kerry in their own pomp had no one close to them in terms of any advantages they held.

It’s pretty clear from your previous post and continued avoidance of the topic by the way that a) splitting dublin would do exactly zero for smaller counties and b) you know that that but don’t actually care since your agenda is about restoring the old status quo

tritium

tritium wrote: »

It’s pretty clear from your previous post and continued avoidance of the topic by the way that a) splitting dublin would do exactly zero for smaller counties and b) you know that that but don’t actually care since your agenda is about restoring the old status quo

Ah, but hobbling Dublin is good for the smaller counties because it leads to Kerry winning more AIs which means that the championship survives instead of being dominated by one team........

Dots1982

Im afraid the argument that splitting Dublin helps every county doesn’t really stand up. It helps around max 15 counties.

At the same time the concern of Dublin posters about the weakest counties like Waterford and Leitrim is disingenuous. They couldn’t give a **** about any county but themselves and don’t want changes to the status quo because the status quo benefits them.

That’s the truth of the matter.

kilns

gaffer91 wrote: »

It's not the only change but it's the single most important one. No-one will be watching or caring about inter- county football if the current Dublin domination built on unfair advantages continues.

So splitting Dublin will ensure other counties still have a competition to play in, so it will help them.

This is where your logic is really hard to understand if Dublin is split yes Dublin get weaker but Kerry Tyrone Mayo don’t for example. How does this ensure there is a competition for weaker counties to play in, longford Leitrim Wicklow Waterford Antrim etc will still be miles behind a county like Kerry so it fixes absolutely nothing it just doubles Kerry chance of winning an Ireland. Is that fair?

kilns

gaffer91 wrote: »

Dublin have unfair advantages, Kerry didn't and don't. How many times does this have to be pointed out. It's not just domination that's important, it's the inputs into it that are important.

If you wanted the provincials done away with- that's fine, Dublin will still have to be split.

See previous post for how splitting Dublin helps smaller counties.

The advantage of having a huge company in their county who puts 700,000 a year into their county and donates 1m to a training center. That’s a huge advantage that other counties don’t have

kilns

Dots1982 wrote: »

Im afraid the argument that splitting Dublin helps every county doesn’t really stand up. It helps around max 15 counties.

At the same time the concern of Dublin posters about the weakest counties like Waterford and Leitrim is disingenuous. They couldn’t give a **** about any county but themselves and don’t want changes to the status quo because the status quo benefits them.

That’s the truth of the matter.

To be honest nobody really cares about any other county they care about their own county winning. But if anyone is honest the county system is flawed and unfair and if you want to create a level playing field some thing dramatic has to be done. This will never happen due to vested interests in each county and county loyalty

Dots1982

Dots1982 wrote: »

Im afraid the argument that splitting Dublin helps every county doesn’t really stand up. It helps around max 15 counties.

At the same time the concern of Dublin posters about the weakest counties like Waterford and Leitrim is disingenuous. They couldn’t give a **** about any county but themselves and don’t want changes to the status quo because the status quo benefits them.

That’s the truth of the matter.

Spot on, you're dead right. Certain posters hiding behind the altruism of "for the good of the game" when, in actuality, they just want to give their own county a leg up.

The difference with the Dublin posters (well, me anyway) is we're saying that to highlight the rank hypocrisy being spouted. Splitting a county into separate teams will NEVER happen. It would sound the death knell for GAA in that county if you were to dissolve the team and establish a new one or more. But the neck of people saying it has to happen for inter County football to survive is galling. Especially when they would sh1t the bed if it was aimed at their own team.

Here's another suggestion Gaffer: instead of splitting why not combine with Cork and Wear a Jersey that's half red? How does that sound?

Spoiler alert: sounds like a bleeding nightmare

Dots1982

Deleted User wrote: »

Splitting a county into separate teams will NEVER happen. It would sound the death knell for GAA in that county if you were to dissolve the team and establish a new one or more. But the neck of people saying it has to happen for inter County football to survive is galling. Especially when they would sh1t the bed if it was aimed at their own team.

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/attendance-kerry-tyrone-semi-dips-massively-2015-204967

If attendances like this become the norm for all ireland semis then you better believe the GAA will consider any proposals to boost revenue. The GAA lives off big days in Croke Park. It can barely survive without them never mind flourish.

Correlation does not equal causation.

You're, presumably, pinning that on Dublin's dominance, despite the fact that the final and replay were sold out and averaged 75% of the TV audiences?

Why lay the blame at Dublin's feet? If you click into the twitter thread on that link you posted 99% of the replies are giving out about the cost of tickets.

Dots1982

Deleted User wrote: »

Correlation does not equal causation.

You're, presumably, pinning that on Dublin's dominance, despite the fact that the final and replay were sold out and averaged 75% of the TV audiences?

Why lay the blame at Dublin's feet? If you click into the twitter thread on that link you posted 99% of the replies are giving out about the cost of tickets.

If my county had genuine hope of winning an all ireland the cost of tickets wouldn’t matter. Now that they don’t I don’t bother attending games at all. That’s the problem with the all ireland these days. There’s no hope of winning for everybody expect Dublin and maybe Kerry.

That isn’t likely to change much in the next 10 years by the looks of things. That’s a big problem that looks likely to get bigger.

It might, if you were short on cash and had to decide on attending a) a semi vs Tyrone or b) a final vs the greatest team to ever play the game. You might be inclined to keep your powder dry if you felt there was a bigger day out in the pipeline m

dunnerc

Dots1982 wrote: »

If my county had genuine hope of winning an all ireland the cost of tickets wouldn’t matter. Now that they don’t I don’t bother attending games at all. That’s the problem with the all ireland these days. There’s no hope of winning for everybody expect Dublin and maybe Kerry.

That isn’t likely to change much in the next 10 years by the looks of things. That’s a big problem that looks likely to get bigger.

Ah come on !! Its always been that way 2/3 counties in 90% of the history of Gaelic football capable of winning an All Ireland in any given year :rolleyes:

Dots1982

dunnerc wrote: »

Ah come on !! Its always been that way 2/3 counties in 90% of the history of Gaelic football capable of winning an All Ireland in any given year :rolleyes:

If you say so

tritium

Dots1982 wrote: »

Im afraid the argument that splitting Dublin helps every county doesn’t really stand up. It helps around max 15 counties.

At the same time the concern of Dublin posters about the weakest counties like Waterford and Leitrim is disingenuous. They couldn’t give a **** about any county but themselves and don’t want changes to the status quo because the status quo benefits them.

That’s the truth of the matter.

You’d be doing well to make an argument for 15 counties that would benefit from hobbling Dublin. Maybe 3 outside Leinster and 2-3 in Leinster looking for provincial honors but no further, at a push, the rest would still be well off the pace.

Bit rich to be claiming dublin posters are disingenuous though. So far in this thread it’s largely only the dublin posters who have expressed any willingness to give up funding to help the weaker counties get ahead. Mention their financial or other advantages to the anti dublin brigade and ask them to give some of them up and we just get a blanket denial of reality, even when the facts are on public record.

Because if you’re to be honest they also don’t give a ****e, to use your expression, about the weaker counties, or indeed about the “good of the game”, they just want the old status quo back

And that’s also the truth of the matter

Dots1982

tritium wrote: »

You’d be doing well to make an argument for 15 counties that would benefit from hobbling Dublin. Maybe 3 outside Leinster and 2-3 in Leinster looking for provincial honors but no further, at a push, the rest would still be well off the pace.

Bit rich to be claiming dublin posters are disingenuous though. So far in this thread it’s largely only the dublin posters who have expressed any willingness to give up funding to help the weaker counties get ahead. Mention their financial or other advantages to the anti dublin brigade and ask them to give some of them up and we just get a blanket denial of reality, even when the facts are on public record.

Because if you’re to be honest they also don’t give a ****e, to use your expression, about the weaker counties, or indeed about the “good of the game”, they just want the old status quo back

And that’s also the truth of the matter

Indeed, this thread is exclusively populated by Salt of the earth decent Dubs who only want the best for the GAA and bitter jealous culchies.

dunnerc

Dots1982 wrote: »

Indeed, this thread is exclusively populated by Salt of the earth decent Dubs who only want the best for the GAA and bitter jealous culchies.

Cant believe there are bitter and jealous culchies on here

tritium

Dots1982 wrote: »

Indeed, this thread is exclusively populated by Salt of the earth decent Dubs who only want the best for the GAA and bitter jealous culchies.

Couldn’t be bitter and jealous culchies could it? After all it was the anti dublin brigade who keep telling us it’s all about the weaker counties. Keep telling us it’s about love of the game and everyone having a chance.

Until they’re asked how their own, typically historically prominent county, would make equivalent sacrifices to level the field for everyone. Until the imbalances their own counties enjoy are pointed out. And then the conversation suddenly gets all awkward.

Cause they’ve been talking self serving ****e up to that point.

Tell me dots, do you really think hobbling Dublin to save say Kildare from a hammering in Leinster would do a damn thing for the standard of Kildare football? Kildare who shipped 7 goals against Kerry not so many years ago? Dub supporters here have actively agreed that raising the standard in Leinster would be a good thing, are happy to redistribute funding to achieve that, and yet all a bunch of short sighted folks can see is, if they hobble dublin they might have a shot at the local bit of tin, and sure who cares if we’re embarrassed in the AI, or for one or two posters, eyes on getting back on top of the tree It’s a pathetic lack of ambition tbh, the tonya Harding school of sporting excellence

Dots1982

tritium wrote: »

Couldn’t be bitter and jealous culchies could it? After all it was the anti dublin brigade who keep telling us it’s all about the weaker counties. Keep telling us it’s about love of the game and everyone having a chance.

Until they’re asked how their own, typically historically prominent county, would make equivalent sacrifices to level the field for everyone. Until the imbalances their own counties enjoy are pointed out. And then the conversation suddenly gets all awkward.

Cause they’ve been talking self serving ****e up to that point.

Tell me dots, do you really think hobbling Dublin to save say Kildare from a hammering in Leinster would do a damn thing for the standard of Kildare football? Kildare who shipped 7 goals against Kerry not so many years ago? Dub supporters here have actively agreed that raising the standard in Leinster would be a good thing, are happy to redistribute funding to achieve that, and yet all a bunch of short sighted folks can see is, if they hobble dublin they might have a shot at the local bit of tin, and sure who cares if we’re embarrassed in the AI, or for one or two posters, eyes on getting back on top of the tree It’s a pathetic lack of ambition tbh, the tonya Harding school of sporting excellence

Oh absolutely, kildare haven’t won Sam since 1928. No point dressing that up. It’s a disgraceful record.

I suppose it’s likely we’ll get better with the huge Population in the county now. But I don’t really care. When the demographics were reasonably fair across counties Kildare have been totally useless.

kilns

Pooling sponsorship funding received is a very tricky situation. Would AIG pay as much if they know their sponsorship money is not going into Dublin. I would be pretty sure Kerry Group wont be giving 700,000 a year to a national pool to help other counties. Then there is the case of counties being responsibly with the money they receive. As evident from some counties like Mayo and Galway they are unable to manage things competently themselves and would big sponsors be willing to give funds to counties who will waste it.

On the other hand, development funds will always look skewed due to the amount going to certain counties due to population profiles. Of course certain journalists with chips on their shoulders will highlight this without any back up and say look how much X and Y get without looking at why. I think the solution with regard to development funding is that the GAA needs to take all the power away from the county boards and provincial councils and centralise everything and manage everything from there so that every single county has the exact same coaching visions and development squads etc. This way a national plan can be carried out and the politics that infest some counties would be eliminated. County boards can then still have the power to arrange fixture lists etc sponsorship and revenue can be gathered locally but spending etc must be done and approved through the centralise channels

I think the club scene is healthy as it is community based but the county system needs a complete overhaul as evident with one Kerry supporter here who is very concerned with other counties having a shot at winning the All Ireland, we need to find a solution to give everyone a decent shot each year and I am sure every Dublin supporter would love to see real competition coming from various corners of the Island.

Bonniedog

Dots1982 wrote: »

Oh absolutely, kildare haven’t won Sam since 1928. No point dressing that up. It’s a disgraceful record.

I suppose it’s likely we’ll get better with the huge Population in the county now. But I don’t really care. When the demographics were reasonably fair across counties Kildare have been totally useless.

Demographics will not necessarily benefit any county. Dublin, Meath and Kildare are being totally transformed at moment and that will get worse, yes worse under their mad plans.

We be lucky if there's any GAA in 2050.

gaffer91

tritium wrote: »

As others have pointed out just because you want something to be true doesn’t actually make it true. Much as you may want to be able to tell yourself that Kerry’s success was all pure and fair, the uncomfortable evidence, as detailed earlier in this thread , gives a lie to that narrative. And you’ve provided absolutely nothing to refute that evidence. If anything Kerry’s advantages have been more insidious- at least dublin also had to deal with the established financial/administrative juggernaut that is Kerry, Kerry in their own pomp had no one close to them in terms of any advantages they held.

It’s pretty clear from your previous post and continued avoidance of the topic by the way that a) splitting dublin would do exactly zero for smaller counties and b) you know that that but don’t actually care since your agenda is about restoring the old status quo

There was no "uncomfortable evidence". There is nothing to refute. Dublin alone are uniquely advantaged in the current environment. They are massively overfunded compared to everyone else. Both from the GAA, the government and their sponsors. No-one else, including Kerry, even comes close. They have the largest playing pool by a country mile. They play most consequential games at home.

So Kerry, or any other county, have no advantages. Dublin have many. They are so ingrained they mean Dublin will have to be split to help mitigate them.

This arguments stands on its own merits. Imagine I support Louth if that helps you to deal with it. Splitting Dublin will help all counties by ensuring the All Ireland competition survives- no-one will be watching, attending or caring in 10 years as the current Dublin dominance built on these unfair advantages continues unabated.

gaffer91

kilns wrote: »

This is where your logic is really hard to understand if Dublin is split yes Dublin get weaker but Kerry Tyrone Mayo don’t for example. How does this ensure there is a competition for weaker counties to play in, longford Leitrim Wicklow Waterford Antrim etc will still be miles behind a county like Kerry so it fixes absolutely nothing it just doubles Kerry chance of winning an Ireland. Is that fair?

Once again. No-one will be watching, attending or caring about inter-county football in 10 years as the Dublin dominance built on their current unfair platform continues. If you want to see the future, see the way the Leinster championship has gone over the last 15 years.

Splitting Dublin will help ensure the meaningful survival of the competition. It's not the only change but it's the most important one. So it will help all counties- including Dublin. More players from Dublin can play at the highest level, Dublin GAA members and supporters will still have teams to support and the survival of the competition will help them too.

gaffer91

tritium wrote: »

Bit rich to be claiming dublin posters are disingenuous though. So far in this thread it’s largely only the dublin posters who have expressed any willingness to give up funding to help the weaker counties get ahead. Mention their financial or other advantages to the anti dublin brigade and ask them to give some of them up and we just get a blanket denial of reality, even when the facts are on public record.

Because if you’re to be honest they also don’t give a ****e, to use your expression, about the weaker counties, or indeed about the “good of the game”, they just want the old status quo back

And that’s also the truth of the matter

What Dublin supporters have come down in favour of giving up funding? It's nearly always denied in the first instance and then when the evidence is overwhelming they accept it as a fact but deny it matters.

Suggestions to share all sponsorship funding is met with laughs and cries about communism.

Again- it's not just the financial advantages. Other advantages, such as population, are as important, especially when these things are taken together.

gaffer91

gaffer91 wrote: »

So Kerry, or any other county, have no advantages. Dublin have many.

Kerry don't have any advantages over Leitrim in terms of funding and population and sponsorship? You're seriously gonna stand there and say that with a straight face?

Bonniedog

Some people just hate Dublin and Dubs.

Its like the tractor protest. The Minister for agri lives in Mallow but no way the boys are going to fkn blockade any rural town.

Must think we are all shareholders in their old pal Larry's company with whom they defrauded the EU for 20 years!

But sure stop the Dubs going to work and school and hospital. That'll sort tehm.

Nollaig shona dhaoibh go léir,

gaffer91

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Kerry don't have any advantages over Leitrim in terms of funding and population and sponsorship? You're seriously gonna stand there and say that with a straight face?

Wait, so population and funding are advantages to a team now? That's a pretty big concession of you to make.

You're right though and I will qualify my statement. The perceived advantages that Kerry or any other county may or may not have are minuscule and meaningless when compared to the scale, nature, duration and combination of advantages that Dublin enjoy.

So once again we're brought to the conclusion that Dublin alone should be split.

salmocab

gaffer91 wrote: »

So once again we're brought to the conclusion that Dublin alone should be split.

No not we’re, you are but that’s where you started anyway so your just looking for reasons to say it should happen. The good news for you is you can keep this up for a long time because it’s not going to happen.

MayoAreMagic

tritium wrote: »

You’d be doing well to make an argument for 15 counties that would benefit from hobbling Dublin. Maybe 3 outside Leinster and 2-3 in Leinster looking for provincial honors but no further, at a push, the rest would still be well off the pace.

Bit rich to be claiming dublin posters are disingenuous though. So far in this thread it’s largely only the dublin posters who have expressed any willingness to give up funding to help the weaker counties get ahead. Mention their financial or other advantages to the anti dublin brigade and ask them to give some of them up and we just get a blanket denial of reality, even when the facts are on public record.

Because if you’re to be honest they also don’t give a ****e, to use your expression, about the weaker counties, or indeed about the “good of the game”, they just want the old status quo back

And that’s also the truth of the matter

Ah here. Give us a break will you?
Of course it helps every other county. It gives them all a better chance and it saves them from getting these hockeyings that are doing nobody any favours.
2 dublin teams would still be as good as the other teams in the competition and would still be in the top 3 most populated catchment areas.
The truth of the matter is dubs want to shoot fish in a barrel instead of competing on a fairer plain and actually earning some titles in a more even environment. This is mainly down to the fact that kerry have a good team coming through and the dubs dont want to lose to them.

MayoAreMagic

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Kerry don't have any advantages over Leitrim in terms of funding and population and sponsorship? You're seriously gonna stand there and say that with a straight face?

Why do you insist on conjoining the obvious issue with dublins ridiculous advantages with the obvious issue with leitrim being so small?
They are two different issues requiring two different solutions.

dunnerc

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Ah here. Give us a break will you?
Of course it helps every other county. It gives them all a better chance and it saves them from getting these hockeyings that are doing nobody any favours.
2 dublin teams would still be as good as the other teams in the competition and would still be in the top 3 most populated catchment areas.
The truth of the matter is dubs want to shoot fish in a barrel instead of competing on a fairer plain and actually earning some titles in a more even environment. This is mainly down to the fact that kerry have a good team coming through and the dubs dont want to lose to them.

Even on Christmas day:rolleyes: Jesus Wept....

Coillte_Bhoy

Bonniedog wrote: »

Some people just hate Dublin and Dubs.

Its like the tractor protest. The Minister for agri lives in Mallow but no way the boys are going to fkn blockade any rural town.

Must think we are all shareholders in their old pal Larry's company with whom they defrauded the EU for 20 years!

But sure stop the Dubs going to work and school and hospital. That'll sort tehm.

Nollaig shona dhaoibh go l,

Aye because a tractor blockade in Mallow, a town of what? 10-15,000 will get the same publicity as one in the capital city?

Dr. Bre

Between 96 -2011 dubs were labelled bottlers. Then they started winning allegedly cos of money. Bonnie is correct in saying dubs just can’t win . Remember some of those AI finals could of gone either way. Dubs did 5 in a row but it could have been 2 wins in last five years