The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

Hawkeye9212

RoyalCelt wrote: »

We all admired the great kerry and killenny teams as they were real counties who didn't have ridiculous advantages. And in some cases the GAA made moves to even things particularly for killenny. They put Galway into Leinster and gave Dublin hurling massive funding. Both moves directly limited their success.

Neither played almost every match at home or received funding like Dublin have. They also didn't have the sponsorship of a province or the population.

I do agree Dublin should be split into 4. They should be split into 2 and massive funding should go into counties who still can't compete. There's no reason you couldn't have a championship with at least 10 serious contenders. At present we have 1.

4 of these contenders will be Dublin teams so we could end up with all-Dublin finals. That would definitely kill the intercounty game.

STB.

Yeah, none of this going to happen.


Stop whinging about how good Dublin are and look at improving your own County teams.

Will require a lot of training, no drinking and total dedication.

The Lost Sheep

RoyalCelt wrote: »

We all admired the great kerry and killenny teams as they were real counties who didn't have ridiculous advantages. And in some cases the GAA made moves to even things particularly for killenny. They put Galway into Leinster and gave Dublin hurling massive funding. Both moves directly limited their success.

going Dublin are not a real county is just childish and not anything near a real argument. They do have big advantages over many of their big rivals though. Has galway and Dublin really challenged kilkenny in leinster though?

Neither played almost every match at home or received funding like Dublin have. They also didn't have the sponsorship of a province or the population.

huge percentage of Dublin funding goes on development officers etc and they have a population bigger than all of connacht and most of Ulster so should they not have much more funding as a result?

Ido agree Dublin should be split into 4. They should be split into 2 and massive funding should go into counties who still can't compete. There's no reason you couldn't have a championship with at least 10 serious contenders. At present we have 1.

Dublin if they even should be split should be split in 2. If you are going to split Dublin in 4 then other counties should also be split. We dont just have 1 serious contender and in no way could we have 10 serious contenders. That's a third of the entire country.

STB. wrote: »

Yeah, none of this going to happen.

Stop whinging about how good Dublin are and look at improving your own County teams.

Will require a lot of training, no drinking and total dedication.

Honestly there is one poor lad here who must be responsible for a third of all the posts on this thread. Professional help may not be of any use at this stage.

that's a load of rubbish especially the drinking, training. Are you seriously suggesting many counties dont do enough training or are dedicated enough?

MayoAreMagic

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

It won't work. Nobody will support a team which isn't based in the area of its namesake.

But Dublin north and dublin south would be based on the area where people are from...

Even ignoring that for a second. The whims of one county cant hold the rest of the gaa world to randsom. If you really cant stand not being an entire entity then you could always get the railway cup going again.
In reality, what are dubs even afraid of? They would still have multiples of what kerry would have, in both teams and all the other advantages would still be there. If these famous structures are even half as good as they are supposed to be you should be beating them and everyone else regularly within a couple of years. That is the reality.

MayoAreMagic

STB. wrote: »

Yeah, none of this going to happen.


Stop whinging about how good Dublin are and look at improving your own County teams.

Will require a lot of training, no drinking and total dedication.

Honestly there is one poor lad here who must be responsible for a third of all the posts on this thread. Professional help may not be of any use at this stage.

This wasnt what dublin did to improve.

PerryB78

beggars_bush wrote: »

Or just reduce the funding allocated
Dublin have ample resources themselves, and the rest of the country is subsidising them for too long

Spend it on improving other counties

Wow just wow, one of the most bizarre things I've read on here. Beggars_bush more like Beggars_belief 😂😂😂

Hawkeye9212

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But Dublin north and dublin south would be based on the area where people are from...

Even ignoring that for a second. The whims of one county cant hold the rest of the gaa world to randsom. If you really cant stand not being an entire entity then you could always get the railway cup going again.
In reality, what are dubs even afraid of? They would still have multiples of what kerry would have, in both teams and all the other advantages would still be there. If these famous structures are even half as good as they are supposed to be you should be beating them and everyone else regularly within a couple of years. That is the reality.

South Dublin doesn't have a stadium capable of holding intercounty games. Also, you're not a psychic. I'm not a Dub.

Dr. Bre

You can’t just create teams and expect fans to support these newly created teams. If the split happened and fell flat on its face you would have the biggest populated county not interested in Gaelic games . A risk the GAA will not take and rightly so.

RedDevil55

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

huge percentage of Dublin funding goes on development officers etc and they have a population bigger than all of connacht and most of Ulster so should they not have much more funding as a result?

The funding is grossly disproportionate. The GAA have funded over 50 development officers in Dublin for the last 12 years. Kerry, Mayo, Donegal and Tyrone have had 2 each over that time. I don't believe that's right but apparently others disagree.

RedDevil55

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

South Dublin doesn't have a stadium capable of holding intercounty games. Also, you're not a psychic. I'm not a Dub.

Most counties don't have home games in the Leinster championship so a precedent is there

Bonniedog

RedDevil55 wrote: »

Most counties don't have home games in the Leinster championship so a precedent is there

Dublin have been beaten once in 30 away games in Leinster since 1973.

RedDevil55

Bonniedog wrote: »

Dublin have been beaten once in 30 away games in Leinster since 1973.

You are not very clever are you?

Stick to the old soccerball son.

Fair play Dublin but the point I was making is that a hypothetical South Dublin team needn't play their games in South Dublin.

I'm not sure what my intelligence level or soccer interests have to do with this thread.

Hawkeye9212

RedDevil55 wrote: »

Fair play Dublin but the point I was making is that a hypothetical South Dublin team needn't play their games in South Dublin.

I'm not sure what my intelligence level or soccer interests have to do with this thread.

Defeats the whole point of supporting your local team.

beggars_bush

PerryB78 wrote: »

Wow just wow, one of the most bizarre things I've read on here. Beggars_bush more like Beggars_belief ������

Well where does the money come from Dublins coaching setup?
The other counties via central council

beggars_bush

STB. wrote: »

Yeah, none of this going to happen.


Stop whinging about how good Dublin are and look at improving your own County teams.

Will require a lot of training, no drinking and total dedication.

Honestly there is one poor lad here who must be responsible for a third of all the posts on this thread. Professional help may not be of any use at this stage.

What funding will they get to change their coaching and development systems?
Dublin wouldn't have put in place their huge coaching structure without financial backing from the GAA

PerryB78

beggars_bush wrote: »

Well where does the money come from Dublins coaching setup?
The other counties via central council

Absolute rubbish, most money generated for the GAA is by Dublin, there is the bigger population and hence we get the most funding. Tell me why all the leinster counties bar Laois voted to keep Dublin playing in croke park? Dublin get the crowds and the GAA get more money as a result

Dyr

RedDevil55 wrote: »

The funding is grossly disproportionate. The GAA have funded over 50 development officers in Dublin for the last 12 years. Kerry, Mayo, Donegal and Tyrone have had 2 each over that time. I don't believe that's right but apparently others disagree.

I know one of those games promotion officers (correct term there): he only coaches hurling and half his salary is paid for by the club, like the majority of GPOs in Dublin. But do carry on, you were saying something about how he's helping Dublin win Sam Maguire.

jmayo

tritium wrote: »

It’s not a bad idea but I’d probably split things a bit more. Kerry north and Kerry south, mayo north and mayo south. Kerry and mayo fans would of course love it since their teams would have shorter commutes to training and by concentrating their resources they’ll both have a better chance...

Yeah because the trip from Dublin to Ballina is so much shorter than that to Castlebar. :rolleyes:
A lot of the Mayo panel live outside the county so dividing it would have fook all difference on distance to training.

But I am guessing you know that anyway.

The intercounty game is facing huge issues.
Even if you take out the huge fooking elephant in the room that is Dublin football, then there are other issues where now it costs so much in money and time to run a somewhat competitive intercounty team.

Look how many staff are now tied to intercounty teams.
Gone are the days of a doctor and a physio for match days.
Now you have strength and fitness, physios, dieticians and then you have the others like performance analysis, statistician, media manager, yoga trainers, camerman, goalie coach, forwards coach, backs coach, administrators.

The All Ireland winning teams of Dublin and Tipperary I think had 23 member backroom teams.

Now granted they are not all paid, but by damn they will all be on varying degrees of expenses.

And then most importantly you have the time and effort that players now need to put in to compete at highest level.

It is much easier for Dublin as they almost all to a man live and work in Dublin.
And they are winning and they get the rewards that come with that.

And one can understand how the likes of Kerry, Mayo and a couple of other teams can entice players to put in the efforts as they win provincials and get big days in Croker.

But why the feck would someone in Wicklow, Carlow, Leitrim, Waterford, Fermanagh, Antrim, etc bother putting their lives on hold for the odd win in any given year.
And this is very noticable how players can't be bothered waiting for backdoor matches.

Top GAA players are now basically semi pros, without the paypacket.

RedDevil55

Bambi wrote: »

I know one of those games promotion officers (correct term there): he only coaches hurling and half his salary is paid for by the club, like the majority of GPOs in Dublin. But do carry on, you were saying something about how he's helping Dublin win Sam Maguire.

There are hurling only GPOs in most, if not all counties. There's certainly one in Mayo anyway. I know the Dublin clubs pay some of the salaries but I'm just going on how the central GAA funds are divided up. Dublin receive enough for over 50 full-time officers compared to 2 in most other division 1 counties. As I said, grossly disproportionate.

RedDevil55

PerryB78 wrote: »

Absolute rubbish, most money generated for the GAA is by Dublin, there is the bigger population and hence we get the most funding. Tell me why all the leinster counties bar Laois voted to keep Dublin playing in croke park? Dublin get the crowds and the GAA get more money as a result

Do you have stats on how much money Dublin generates relative to other counties? There are other counties that are a huge cash cow for the GAA yet receive pittance in comparison.

Dyr

RedDevil55 wrote: »

I know the Dublin clubs pay some of the salaries but I'm just going on how the central GAA funds are divided up. Dublin receive enough for over 50 full-time officers compared to 2 in most other division 1 counties. As I said, grossly disproportionate.

Disporpotionate to what? County population? Dublin gets less per head of population than many other counties who still can't beat them (*cough* Kerry *cough* *cough* Mayo *cough* Kerry *cough*)


I seem to remember the GAA (which includes Dublin) had to bail Mayo out of a bank loan to the tune of 5 million because they pissed it up against the wall on Mchale Park.

How many GDOs would Mayo get for 5 million? Apparently, it's Dublins fault that Mayo's priorities were elsewhere and they lacked fiscal competence

It's also seems to be Dublin and the GAAs fault that the arse has fallen out of large parts of Rural Ireland. Have a word with your local TD about something other than sorting out planning pemissions and grants lads. It's not something the GAA are going to fix

The high horse brigade

Bambi wrote: »

I seem to remember the GAA (which includes Dublin) had to bail Mayo out of a bank loan to the tune of 5 million because they pissed it up against the wall on Mchale Park.

Holy sh1t, typical blinkered Dubs attitude. A county developing their county ground is pissing their money away. Meanwhile Dublin don't have to develop Parnell park because they have the use of the national stadium.

RedDevil55

Bambi wrote: »

Disporpotionate to what? County population? Dublin gets less per head of population than many other counties who still can't beat them (*cough* Kerry *cough* *cough* Mayo *cough* Kerry *cough*)

I seem to remember the GAA (which includes Dublin) had to bail Mayo out of a bank loan to the tune of 5 million because they pissed it up against the wall on Mchale Park.

How many GDOs would Mayo get for 5 million? Apparently, it's Dublins fault that Mayo's priorities were elsewhere and they lacked fiscal competence

Dublin get approx 25 times the funding that Kerry and Mayo get, yet there population is only about 10 times bigger. Disproportionate.

There was no bailout on MacHale Park. The term of the loan was extended but every cent is being paid back in full with interest. About €32k per month for the next 25 years. Completely different to the GD funding which will never be paid back.

Dyr

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Holy sh1t, typical blinkered Dubs attitude. A county developing their county ground is pissing their money away. Meanwhile Dublin don't have to develop Parnell park because they have the use of the national stadium.

Guts of 20 million on a fiasco that would have bankrupted the county had the GAA not bailed them out for a stadium that still cant fit more that 30 thousand. Holy Sh*t indeed. Same with that Monument to Frank Murphys ego below in the Peoples Republic.

GAA having to come in like the IMF to straighten the ship and because yis have county boards that would'nt be let run a school tuck shop carrying on like tin pot dictatorships and you're bitching because Dublin spends its (immaculately managed) money on GDO's? Get this bus lads.

Higgins5473

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Holy sh1t, typical blinkered Dubs attitude. A county developing their county ground is pissing their money away. Meanwhile Dublin don't have to develop Parnell park because they have the use of the national stadium.

Generally when you take out a loan for anything, it's with a contractual agreement with an element of trust that you will be able to service the loan and not need a bail out. They were not able to meet the repayments, so "pissing it away" or a totally mismanaged f*ck up is perfectly accurate way to describe it. Mayo GAA County Board have some exceptional form in mismanaged f*ck ups.

seligehgit

Mod Warning

Any further posts attacking a fellow poster will result in sanction.

Any further posts deviating off the topic at hand into the relative worth that the urban/rural economies bring to the country's prosperity will be treated in a similar fashion.

PerryB78

RedDevil55 wrote: »

Do you have stats on how much money Dublin generates relative to other counties? There are other counties that are a huge cash cow for the GAA yet receive pittance in comparison.

I don't think there's any doubt that Dublin generate the most revenue per county, cant get the actual figures as HQ closed for the crimbo 😉

RedDevil55

PerryB78 wrote: »

I don't think there's any doubt that Dublin generate the most revenue per county, cant get the actual figures as HQ closed for the crimbo 😉

Don't bother ringing up Croke Park.

The funding is not divided up based on what revenue each county generates for the GAA. Otherwise Mayo, Kerry and other division 1 counties would be getting close to Dublin's amount. That is not the case.

PerryB78

RedDevil55 wrote: »

Don't bother ringing up Croke Park.

The funding is not divided up based on what revenue each county generates for the GAA. Otherwise Mayo, Kerry and other division 1 counties would be getting close to Dublin's amount. That is not the case.

Dont worry I was only joking about ringing them, knowing them it would probably be a premium rate number anyway 😂😂

beggars_bush

Bonniedog wrote: »

Dublin have been beaten once in 30 away games in Leinster since 1973.

The last proper away game that they played was in 2006 v longford
Every other game has been at a neutral venue or at home in Croke Park

Bonniedog

Dublin played over 30 games over the period I referred to. You are talking about four games since 2006?

Even when Dublin were bad for about 7 years from 1967 to 1973, getting beaten by Westmeath was a massive shock and made the front page of the newspapers.

Some of you would do well to learn some history.

GreenandRed

beggars_bush wrote: »

The last proper away game that they played was in 2006 v longford
Every other game has been at a neutral venue or at home in Croke Park

From 1996 to 2011 playing in Croke Park seemed like a noose around their necks. The pressure of the home venue killed them, or so it seemed, but in fact it was poor management. In 2006 they should have had us out the gate and in Heuston Station with 20 minutes left. They had some spectacular collapses there at the time.

Then Gilroy came and changed their mentality. While Kerry and Donegal since Gilroy also showed All Irelands can be won. The other thing is, if you're an intercounty team that can't get fired up and motivated to try and beat Dublin in Croke Park then I think that intercounty football isn't your thing. Fk the begrudgers, Dublin have always had advantages. In 2020 let's start finding ways of beating them and stop making excuses. The're very good but no team is unbeatable.

kilns

People are never going agree on here, this is an internet forum after all and people can say things without backing them up.

I understands some posters grumblings, nobody likes anyone who wins all the time except if its your team however splitting Dublin or totally cutting their funding and giving it to counties who have proven they couldnt run a sale out of their own car boot is not a solution. A whole overhaul is required, splitting Dublin and cutting their funding will not bring counties like Longford, Offaly, Sligo etc any closer to winning an All Ireland. We need to be looking at solutions how that can be brought about and see how people from counties like this can look at each season and say we have a chance.

Your thoughts on this wider problem are most welcome

salmocab

kilns wrote: »

People are never going agree on here, this is an internet forum after all and people can say things without backing them up.

I understands some posters grumblings, nobody likes anyone who wins all the time except if its your team however splitting Dublin or totally cutting their funding and giving it to counties who have proven they couldnt run a sale out of their own car boot is not a solution. A whole overhaul is required, splitting Dublin and cutting their funding will not bring counties like Longford, Offaly, Sligo etc any closer to winning an All Ireland. We need to be looking at solutions how that can be brought about and see how people from counties like this can look at each season and say we have a chance.

Your thoughts on this wider problem are most welcome

There hasn’t been a new point made here in a very long time. What I will say is I doubt supporters of any other sport would be looking for ways to make the best weaker instead of the rest better.

The_Honeybadger

salmocab wrote: »

There hasn’t been a new point made here in a very long time. What I will say is I doubt supporters of any other sport would be looking for ways to make the best weaker instead of the rest better.

To be honest I think there are legitimate points on both sides. It’s too early to say right now, but there is a chance that Dublin might continue to dominate perpetually, with just sporadic pockets of success for a handful of others. If that turns out to be the case then the sport will be in real trouble.

And BTW there are umpteen examples of other sports putting things in place to keep the best teams in check. Many professional sports have draft systems and salary caps for example. The biggest teams in the biggest markets would blow everyone away if they didn’t.

SilverFox2

salmocab wrote: »

There hasn’t been a new point made here in a very long time. What I will say is I doubt supporters of any other sport would be looking for ways to make the best weaker instead of the rest better.

Maybe some key Dublin players should join Mayo to level the playing field in the GAA?

SilverFox2

SilverFox2 wrote: »

Maybe Diarmuid C should join Mayo to level the playing field in the GAA?

In fact maybe the GAA should become more like American Football, let the best underage from Dublin get 1st preference from the weaker counties to have them join that county.
We could see a levelling of the playing field within a few years

kilns

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

To be honest I think there are legitimate points on both sides. It’s too early to say right now, but there is a chance that Dublin might continue to dominate perpetually, with just sporadic pockets of success for a handful of others. If that turns out to be the case then the sport will be in real trouble.

And BTW there are umpteen examples of other sports putting things in place to keep the best teams in check. Many professional sports have draft systems and salary caps for example. The biggest teams in the biggest markets would blow everyone away if they didn’t.

Yes the county system is weighted to those counties with population and geographical advantages, with the current county system in place the counties who are currently strong will stay strong and those who are weak will stay weak. If Dublin were to be split, the only teams it would benefit are those who are already annual contenders. It would do nothing for the weaker counties and so the whole representation system needs to be address not just Dublin.

tritium

SilverFox2 wrote: »

In fact maybe the GAA should become more like American Football, let the best underage from Dublin get 1st preference from the weaker counties to have them join that county.
We could see a levelling of the playing field within a few years

The problem with a draft system is you’d have to apply it across the board, and it would quickly remove the county element. Would David Clifford be happy to be drafted for Carlow? Ciaran Kilkenny for Roscommon? It would level things though. Perhaps it could be applied beyond say the core 20 or 25 players in a county so that talented players not making inter county squads could get a look in. Quite a few talented club players from mayo dublin or Kerry might relish a shot at inter county

SilverFox2

Splitting Dublin in 2 would be great for the GAA.

salmocab

tritium wrote: »

The problem with a draft system is you’d have to apply it across the board, and it would quickly remove the county element. Would David Clifford be happy to be drafted for Carlow? Ciaran Kilkenny for Roscommon? It would level things though. Perhaps it could be applied beyond say the core 20 or 25 players in a county so that talented players not making inter county squads could get a look in. Quite a few talented club players from mayo dublin or Kerry might relish a shot at inter county

No the problem with a draft is it has to be for professionals. Drafts don’t weaken the best teams they make everyone better but can only be used by certain sports.

salmocab

SilverFox2 wrote: »

Splitting Dublin in 2 would be great for the GAA. Maybe the extra money could help bail out the FAI

What extra money? Splitting Dublin would mean more money going out and less coming in.

SilverFox2

salmocab wrote: »

What extra money? Splitting Dublin would mean more money going out and less coming in.

Dublin could fill Croker twice over.
having 2 teams would have more going to games and the GAA would have extra income from
gate receipts and 2 sponsorships deals for more money possibly.

Dyr

GreenandRed wrote: »

Then Gilroy came and changed their mentality. While Kerry and Donegal since Gilroy also showed All Irelands can be won. The other thing is, if you're an intercounty team that can't get fired up and motivated to try and beat Dublin in Croke Park then I think that intercounty football isn't your thing. Fk the begrudgers, Dublin have always had advantages. In 2020 let's start finding ways of beating them and stop making excuses. The're very good but no team is unbeatable.

Most of the lads on here would'nt be paying attention to Dublins signs of vulnerability last year, with the likes of Cork giving them a scare. Just like Kilkenny before them, its experience and confidence that's seeing them through in those games but that won't last.

spurshero

SilverFox2 wrote: »

Dublin could fill Croker twice over.
having 2 teams would have more going to games and the GAA would have extra income from
gate receipts and 2 sponsorships deals for more money possibly.

They don’t fill it for any game bar the final and some semi finals depending on who there playing . There Leinster finals last few years are life morgues

salmocab

SilverFox2 wrote: »

Dublin could fill Croker twice over.
having 2 teams would have more going to games and the GAA would have extra income from
gate receipts and 2 sponsorships deals for more money possibly.

No there would be less people going as interest would immediately fall and sponsors would also lose interest.

SilverFox2

salmocab wrote: »

No there would be less people going as interest would immediately fall and sponsors would also lose interest.

Once could say the same of Madrid, with Real and Athletico, or the Milans.
If teams are winning or dominant they will be supported

salmocab

SilverFox2 wrote: »

Once could say the same of Madrid, with Real and Athletico, or the Milans.
If teams are winning or dominant they will be supported

County’s aren’t the same thing as professional clubs. Even if it happened it would take years to get the buy in from supporters to the point where the money was back to where it is, all that time the second team would need funding with a smaller pot to fund it so even less for everyone else. This splitting nonsense isn’t thought out it’s just people saying things to be heard.

The_Honeybadger

Just to be clear, when I brought up the draft system I was not saying it would work in the GAA. It can only work in professional sports.

One possible solution is to make the league the main summer competition and really get behind it from a marketing perspective. It’s our best and fairest competition imo, and it is easy to follow.

Smaller counties have no chance in the current championship and they never will. Give them a system and incentives to amalgamate for the championship and overlap the competition with the league. The difficulty with this is that supporters may not identify with an amalgamated team.

If the players and supporters don’t buy in it can’t work obviously, but it is potentially one way where the very best players from smaller counties can get a genuine shot at an All Ireland. If they don’t want that then I don’t know what else can be done, you’ll never improve the Division 3-4 counties enough to compete at the top regardless of how much money you pump in.

RedDevil55

kilns wrote: »

People are never going agree on here, this is an internet forum after all and people can say things without backing them up.

I understands some posters grumblings, nobody likes anyone who wins all the time except if its your team however splitting Dublin or totally cutting their funding and giving it to counties who have proven they couldnt run a sale out of their own car boot is not a solution. A whole overhaul is required, splitting Dublin and cutting their funding will not bring counties like Longford, Offaly, Sligo etc any closer to winning an All Ireland. We need to be looking at solutions how that can be brought about and see how people from counties like this can look at each season and say we have a chance.

Your thoughts on this wider problem are most welcome

I don't want to see Dublin split personally and nobody said cut their funding totally, why the need for hyperbole? This stuff about we can't give funding to other counties as they'll waste it is rubbish. All games development funding is spent on coaches. A lot of counties get 2 with their funding, Dublin get 50+ with theirs. Would anyone have a problem with levelling out the massive differences that exist?

Overtime that will bring up the standards in weaker counties.