All-Ireland SFC Final 2019.- Dublin V Kerry - Read Mod Note in Post #1

robbiezero

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

I thought Moran was superb yesterday, absolutely superb.

He only got turned over once- sometimes you have to take the ball into contact and back yourself to break yet line in order to make an overlap option.

He was easily the best midfielder on show yesterday

Had a super game apart from that last turn over. Barry started really well but faded somewhat.
Love watching Moran play when he is fit and in-form. Horse of a man and great kicker of the ball too.
Thought Kerry might have been as well lump a few long ones into Walsh in injury time. They couldn't break out of their half anyway so might have been as well off do that.
Will Kerry start their captain the next day? Thought he struggled all day and got a bit of a roasting off McCaffrey.

theguzman

The GAA are disgraceful, there is no need for the replay to be played at 18:00, it is pure skulduggery on behalf of the drinks and hotels industry. Dublin is over a 5 hours drive from parts of Kerry, the time is irrelevant for Dublin who have a home venue. There is no public transport available to Kerry after the game and Dublin Hotels have engaged in price gouging in the most despicable manner. It should be played at 14:30 and not 18:00.

Happyilylost

robbiezero wrote: »

Had a super game apart from that last turn over. Barry started really well but faded somewhat.
Love watching Moran play when he is fit and in-form. Horse of a man and great kicker of the ball too.
Thought Kerry might have been as well lump a few long ones into Walsh in injury time. They couldn't break out of their half anyway so might have been as well off do that.
Will Kerry start their captain the next day? Thought he struggled all day and got a bit of a roasting off McCaffrey.

If I was in the Kerry camp I would be sacrificing a player to try and put the shackles on McCaffrey as Mayo did with Durcan. He has been on a different planet influence wise this year and you'd be disappointed in Keane if he didn't try and quell his impact on the game the next day. Both managers I think will have a few headaches with their match ups the next day. Gavin could possibly even revise his match day squad.

aodomhnaill

theguzman wrote: »

The GAA are disgraceful, there is no need for the replay to be played at 18:00, it is pure skulduggery on behalf of the drinks and hotels industry. Dublin is over a 5 hours drive from parts of Kerry, the time is irrelevant for Dublin who have a home venue. There is no public transport available to Kerry after the game and Dublin Hotels have engaged in price gouging in the most despicable manner. It should be played at 14:30 and not 18:00.

Somewhat baffled by the 6pm throw in also. Floodlights will need to go on at a late stage of the game I'm guessing. Interesting you think it's the drinks and hotels industry, do you have some inside info on this? I genuinely thought there must be some kind of very valid reason to put it on at such an awkward/inconvenient time, anyone know any other potential reasons? I agree entirely with you, very unfair on the travelling Kerry contingent.

Icaras

aodomhnaill wrote: »

Somewhat baffled by the 6pm throw in also. Floodlights will need to go on at a late stage of the game I'm guessing. Interesting you think it's the drinks and hotels industry, do you have some inside info on this? I genuinely thought there must be some kind of very valid reason to put it on at such an awkward/inconvenient time, anyone know any other potential reasons? I agree entirely with you, very unfair on the travelling Kerry contingent.

Could it be to facilitate Kerry travelling up on the day and being able to get a few hours rest before the game?

JustJoe7240

theguzman wrote: »

The GAA are disgraceful, there is no need for the replay to be played at 18:00, it is pure skulduggery on behalf of the drinks and hotels industry. Dublin is over a 5 hours drive from parts of Kerry, the time is irrelevant for Dublin who have a home venue. There is no public transport available to Kerry after the game and Dublin Hotels have engaged in price gouging in the most despicable manner. It should be played at 14:30 and not 18:00.

Irish Rail run extra trains for these games and concerts! Id bet my bottom dollar there will be a train to Kerry after, Whether it'll be sufficient for demand is another question.

RoscommonTom

theguzman wrote: »

The GAA are disgraceful, there is no need for the replay to be played at 18:00, it is pure skulduggery on behalf of the drinks and hotels industry. Dublin is over a 5 hours drive from parts of Kerry, the time is irrelevant for Dublin who have a home venue. There is no public transport available to Kerry after the game and Dublin Hotels have engaged in price gouging in the most despicable manner. It should be played at 14:30 and not 18:00.

Your dead right, even a 4.00 throw in would be OK, kerry should kick up a fuss

jmayo

I don't know why people are surprised.

The replay in 2016 had 5pm throw in when it was 1st Oct.

Also look at the way other games are scheduled.
Mayo had to travel back from Down after a 7pm throw in this year.

GAA HQ couldn't give two flying fooks what it means for traveling fans.
And yes there will be some excuse dragged up to cover them.

Poor_old_gill

jmayo wrote: »

I don't know why people are surprised.

The replay in 2016 had 5pm throw in when it was 1st Oct.

Also look at the way other games are scheduled.
Mayo had to travel back from Down after a 7pm throw in this year.

GAA HQ couldn't give two flying fooks what it means for traveling fans.
And yes there will be some excuse dragged up to cover them.

Just because it has happened before doesnt mean that its the right thing to do!
It was a stupid decision by the GAA in 2016 and it is a stupid decision by the GAA in 2019

robbiezero

Happyilylost wrote: »

If I was in the Kerry camp I would be sacrificing a player to try and put the shackles on McCaffrey as Mayo did with Durcan. He has been on a different planet influence wise this year and you'd be disappointed in Keane if he didn't try and quell his impact on the game the next day. Both managers I think will have a few headaches with their match ups the next day. Gavin could possibly even revise his match day squad.

Mayo didn't really sacrifice Durcan, he got two points, missed another two and kept Jack very quiet so they got a great return out of that.
Durcan is a class player. I wonder would Kerry maybe look at putting O'Brien over on McCaffrey and try and force McCaffrey onto the back foot. Probably not much point I'd say, as McCaffrey seemed to be given license to just bomb forward at will regardless of his marker.

jmayo

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Just because it has happened before doesnt mean that its the right thing to do!
It was a stupid decision by the GAA in 2016 and it is a stupid decision by the GAA in 2019

Ehh I know that.
My point still stands that they couldn't give a flying fook about traveling fans.

Happyilylost

robbiezero wrote: »

Mayo didn't really sacrifice Durcan, he got two points, missed another two and kept Jack very quiet so they got a great return out of that.
Durcan is a class player. I wonder would Kerry maybe look at putting O'Brien over on McCaffrey and try and force McCaffrey onto the back foot. Probably not much point I'd say, as McCaffrey seemed to be given license to just bomb forward at will regardless of his marker.

I would go with Paul Murphy. Don't think the Kerry forwards would have the discipline to follow him around the whole game without a lapse somewhere. Yesterday shows a lapse with McCaffrey is big trouble. Forwards natural instinct is to look towards goal. Think Murphy would have as good a chance as anyone at keeping him quiet and as you said about Durcan if he finds himself in an advanced position he can take his scores too.

One outside the box move for Dublin could be to start P Ó Cofaigh Byrne and even up the size differential in the middle of the park.

blanch152

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Importantly, he got all the crucial calls correct in the first half in my view (unless you count not spotting Cluxton coming off his line which he technically got wrong).

I don't necessarily disagree with the Cooper decision, but.....


https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/ref-watch-secondhalf-penalty-claim-and-the-tom-osullivan-yellow-card-that-wasnt-raises-issues-38457369.html


"If there was impartiality however from Gough, and any suggestion he could be anything else in the first place was absurd, there wasn't always consistency.

On a yellow card for a 48th minute foul on Paul Mannion, Tom O'Sullivan then took down John Small three minutes later and by the look on his face the Kerry defender sensed another yellow and subsequent red card coming. And that's what the outcome surely should have been."

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/dublin-s-drive-for-five-just-about-stays-alive-as-kerry-rise-to-the-occasion-1.4004509


"Gough did well in what had been a difficult appointment. His sending-off of Jonny Cooper was indisputable but he should have followed suit with Kerry’s Tom O’Sullivan for a pull down in the second half when already on yellow."

That is pretty much a general view from across the media, other than the pundits looking for headlines.

df02169

blanch152 wrote: »

That is pretty much a general view from across the media, other than the pundits looking for headlines.

The general view from the ref's microphone was different though.

DDC1990

blanch152 wrote:

"Gough did well in what had been a difficult appointment. His sending-off of Jonny Cooper was indisputable but he should have followed suit with Kerry’s Tom O’Sullivan for a pull down in the second half when already on yellow."

O'Sullivan didn't pull Small (I think) down. He pulled him back and Small went to ground. Big difference in the rulebook. One is a black card the other is a ticking (stupid rules but the rules all the same).

I think Gough's biggest error was to give Cooper a yellow and not a black for Cooper's final foul on Clifford. He grabs the hand and drags Clifford all the way to the ground which should have been a black (and subsequently a red) IMO.

I'd be interested to see what reason he had for giving Tom O'Sullivan a yellow card for the first foul actually. I didn't see what reason he had to give a yellow unless he deemed O'Sullivan's hand over the shoulder was a high tackle rather than a ticking for pulling his arm.

Bonniedog

That's the thing. Dublin have gotten the rub of the green other days, Kerry did in major fashion yesterday.

It's done. Gavin is not going to be going all Brian Cody on their arse.

It is pretty embarrassing however trying to continue the Gough is a Dub narrative in a game that he played a role in saving Kerry.

The_Honeybadger

Conor Lane for the replay apparently

Bonniedog

Good ref. But doesn't his aunt live in Killorglin :-)

df02169

Bonniedog wrote: »

It is pretty embarrassing however trying to continue the Gough is a Dub narrative in a game that he played a role in saving Kerry.

Two 'facts' in one line. Well done.

DDC1990

Bonniedog wrote:

That's the thing. Dublin have gotten the rub of the green other days, Kerry did in major fashion yesterday.

He didn't penalize Cluxton for coming off his line, he didn't give O'Brien a 14m free for being pulled down by McCaffrey, he missed Sean O'Shea being pulled down by Johnny Cooper in the square prior to Geaney's blocked chance, he ignored Connolly's foul on Jonathan Lyne late on.

Can't say Kerry had the run of the green at all.

Penalty was the correct call. Red card was the correct call. Ticking instead of a yellow for O'Sullivan was the correct call.

If people don't know the rules and presume that pulling the jersey is an automatic yellow then that's their problem. According to the rules a jersey pull is a ticking. Johnny Cooper's problem was his persistent fouling.

Rule 5.10 - To hold an opponent with the hands.

Under which it states: "Caution offender for persistently
committing such fouls. Order off for
further repetition or for other Cautionable Foul."
Because it was 3 fouls of the same kind he was sent off. Gough seems to know the rulebook inside out and has always been a very technical referee.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Throw in Cooper pulling O'Shea to the ground after 6 mins for a definite penalty and he was lucky to last as long as he did.

Gavin shud have moved him off Clifford.

Bonniedog

Lots of stuff happens.

Complaining about Cluxton coming off his line for a penalty that wasn't a penalty.


Lads need be up to their speed on deconstructionist theory.

Like the virtual eye gouging by Guard O'Mahony on Flash Jack that had him taken out of the game.

We just put these things behind us. Between the lines it gets sorted, usually. Good ref next day. Even if Lane is a Kerryman, being next door to them. Like Gough.

Bonniedog

df02169 wrote: »

Two 'facts' in one line. Well done.

They're giving me the "Jack and Sarah Have a Ball" book next week.


If I'm good.

df02169

Bonniedog wrote: »

Complaining about Cluxton coming off his line for a penalty that wasn't a penalty.

Last comment on this ref nonsense. I'll refer back to your use of 'fact'. Cluxton came off his line illegally and it wasn't a penalty. There is a fact in there, but ....

the butcher

As a Dublin fan, Cooper deserved both yellows, have no argument with that, he was stupid, he was warned by the ref. I didn't think Clifford had him "wrapped" up but he definitely got Cooper out of the game plan.

It was annoying to watch Whelan and Brolly go on about the blatant arm pulling at half time, very poor "analysis". I had no major issues with the ref. I can see why he didn't give the second yellow to O'Sullivan, Cooper was warned after the first yellow, same with O'Sullivan.

Moran and O'Shea were outstanding for Kerry. Clifford didn't rise to heights people were expecting score wise. Kerry missed a lot in the first half. Better tactics in the last 10 minutes could have secured them a win.

I fancy Dublin for the replay. We were lucky Kerry didn't fully utilise the extra man. Fenton should have a point to prove now and some others need to up their focus, McCarthy and others were a bit too lax and sloppy for my liking in patchs throughout the game. Jack Mc surely got man of the match.

The_Kew_Tour

Connor lane hopefully to be just as fair as Sugrue in 88:P

gaffer91

A good game, Dublin will win the replay.

Dublin were very lucky with Gough- the penalty and red card decisions were correct and it's not getting the "rub of the green" for the referee to enforce the rules.

Dublin had numerous soft frees in both halves, including when Small dived to try and get Tom O'Sullivan sent off.

The penalty should have been retaken and Kerry had two other legitimate penalty shouts, before the Geaney miss and when McCaffrey fouled Stephen O'Brien in the second half.

So definitely Dublin had the refereeing breaks, all the whinging from their supporters and media sycophants (e.g Joe Brolly) is laughable.

homerjay2005

robbiezero wrote: »

Mayo didn't really sacrifice Durcan, he got two points, missed another two and kept Jack very quiet so they got a great return out of that.
Durcan is a class player. I wonder would Kerry maybe look at putting O'Brien over on McCaffrey and try and force McCaffrey onto the back foot. Probably not much point I'd say, as McCaffrey seemed to be given license to just bomb forward at will regardless of his marker.

he was playing center forward in 2nd half then went back into half back line again last 10 mins.

blanch152

gaffer91 wrote: »

So definitely Dublin had the refereeing breaks, all the whinging from their supporters and media sycophants (e.g Joe Brolly) is laughable.

Yes, all of the media are wrong and anonymous posters on the internet with an agenda are right.

Got you.

I put up two articles from the two biggest daily newspapers that reported on the incident, and both said that O'Sullivan should have been sent off.

The actual incident that bothers me most is why O'Shea (?) didn't get a straight red at the end for his clothes-line tackle on Small for the free that Rock missed. Richie Hogan must be feeling like changing codes after that. With a straight red, he would be suspended for the replay.

Fr Tod Umptious

Replay ticket prices announced

60 for stand
30 for terrace
10 for kids.

DDC1990

blanch152 wrote:

I put up two articles from the two biggest daily newspapers that reported on the incident, and both said that O'Sullivan should have been sent off.

But by the rulebook those Journalists are incorrect on the O'Sullivan one. His foul is a ticking offence. Any further Jersey pull by O'Sullivan would have resulted in a second yellow.

Bonniedog

df02169 wrote: »

Last comment on this ref nonsense. I'll refer back to your use of 'fact'. Cluxton came off his line illegally and it wasn't a penalty. There is a fact in there, but ....

So what would happen if the penalty wasn't a penalty and Cluxton moved off his line, allegedly, then there would be a another penalty that wasn't a penalty for a penalty that wasn't a penalty.

And people use to fkn laugh at Sartre and his mates skulling pints of Crème de Menthe pondering these things in Montmartre.

Camus could have his own GAA podcast now.

Dr. Bre

Bonniedog wrote: »

Good ref. But doesn't his aunt live in Killorglin :-)

Stillorgin I hear

The_Honeybadger

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, all of the media are wrong and anonymous posters on the internet with an agenda are right.

Got you.

I put up two articles from the two biggest daily newspapers that reported on the incident, and both said that O'Sullivan should have been sent off.

The actual incident that bothers me most is why O'Shea (?) didn't get a straight red at the end for his clothes-line tackle on Small for the free that Rock missed. Richie Hogan must be feeling like changing codes after that. With a straight red, he would be suspended for the replay.

A high tackle is a yellow card offence and O’Shea got a yellow card. I’m not sure what more Gough could have done there.

gaffer91

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, all of the media are wrong and anonymous posters on the internet with an agenda are right.

Got you.

I put up two articles from the two biggest daily newspapers that reported on the incident, and both said that O'Sullivan should have been sent off.

The actual incident that bothers me most is why O'Shea (?) didn't get a straight red at the end for his clothes-line tackle on Small for the free that Rock missed. Richie Hogan must be feeling like changing codes after that. With a straight red, he would be suspended for the replay.

The "media" isn't a homogenous group. Many people accept it was a dive or that it wasn't a bookable offence even if it somehow was a foul.

Don't forget those other soft frees Dublin got and the two other penalties that should have been awarded to Kerry. And that the penalty should have been retaken.

Dublin can count themselves very, very lucky to have been on the right end of so many favourable decisions from Gough.

There's no agenda on my end, just an ability to analyse things impartially.

blanch152

DDC1990 wrote: »

But by the rulebook those Journalists are incorrect on the O'Sullivan one. His foul is a ticking offence. Any further Jersey pull by O'Sullivan would have resulted in a second yellow.

Are you sure?

https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/ho83ln0nlaxxzws1nryx.pdf

"5.5 To hold an opponent with the hand(s)."


PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS-
(i) Free kick from where the foul occurred except
as provided under Exceptions of Rule 2.2.
(ii) Caution offender for committing any of the
above fouls a second time. Order off for a
further repetition or for other cautionable foul."


"5.8 To push an opponent with the hand(s)."

"PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS -
(i) Free kick from where foul occurred,
except as provided under Exceptions of
Rule 2.2.
(ii) Caution offender for persistently
committing such fouls.
Order off for further repetition or for other
Cautionable Foul "


You don't get a second tick, you go straight to a second caution.

The_Honeybadger

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Replay ticket prices announced

60 for stand
30 for terrace
10 for kids.

Are they going on general sale? How will they manage the kids allocation?

Bonniedog

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Stillorgin I hear

Roysh.

I was going to say something about queering the pitch, but don't want to be done for hate crime by Rebel Girl. Goodnight again.


Bonnie + bed = not getting sacked an/or court summons.

Good luck. do it all again in two weeks.

Fr Tod Umptious

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Are they going on general sale? How will they manage the kids allocation?

They are not going on general sale.

threeball

gaffer91 wrote: »

A good game, Dublin will win the replay.

Dublin were very lucky with Gough- the penalty and red card decisions were correct and it's not getting the "rub of the green" for the referee to enforce the rules.

Dublin had numerous soft frees in both halves, including when Small dived to try and get Tom O'Sullivan sent off.

The penalty should have been retaken and Kerry had two other legitimate penalty shouts, before the Geaney miss and when McCaffrey fouled Stephen O'Brien in the second half.

So definitely Dublin had the refereeing breaks, all the whinging from their supporters and media sycophants (e.g Joe Brolly) is laughable.

That was a definite penalty, grabbed his arms twice and hands on the back when kicking. Waved off because he gave a penalty in the first and had sent off Cooper.

bruschi

Free out

keane2097

Serious straw clutching about the ref from the Dubs.

threeball

keane2097 wrote: »

Serious straw clutching about the ref from the Dubs.

Its as bad as the KK whinging about the sending off in the hurling.

jimmytwotimes 2013

11 frees to 2 correct for 2nd half? Saw unofficial source saying it, was wondering if true

gaffer91

keane2097 wrote: »

Serious straw clutching about the ref from the Dubs.

It's absolutely bizarre given how they were actually on the favourable receiving end of all dodgy decisions.

Snow Garden

bruschi wrote: »

Free out

:D:D

Fr Tod Umptious

gaffer91 wrote: »

It's absolutely bizarre given how they were actually on the favourable receiving end of all dodgy decisions.

What's absolutely bizarre is that some people think that a ref is capable of giving all dodgy decisions to one team.

DDC1990

blanch152 wrote:

"PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS - (i) Free kick from where foul occurred, except as provided under Exceptions of Rule 2.2. (ii) Caution offender for persistently committing such fouls. Order off for further repetition or for other Cautionable Foul "

We are interpreting the same rule in 2 different ways.

Tom O'Sullivan didn't "persistently" commit the same foul. At worst he committed the same foul twice and Gough erred in giving the first Yellow. (Again a Jersey pull is a ticking)

What I believe is Gough gave the first yellow for a high tackle for a hand over the shoulder. The second free was for a Jersey pull which is a ticking. O'Sullivan didn't persistently commit the same foul or commit a second "cautionable foul".

It's hard to know without seeing what Gough gave the first yellow for.

blanch152

DDC1990 wrote: »

We are interpreting the same rule in 2 different ways.

Tom O'Sullivan didn't "persistently" commit the same foul. At worst he committed the same foul twice and Gough erred in giving the first Yellow. (Again a Jersey pull is a ticking)

What I believe is Gough gave the first yellow for a high tackle for a hand over the shoulder. The second free was for a Jersey pull which is a ticking. O'Sullivan didn't persistently commit the same foul or commit a second "cautionable foul".

It's hard to know without seeing what Gough gave the first yellow for.

It seems that I am interpreting it the same way as two different reporters from the two main daily newspapers, and while journalists are infallible, I am happy that I am correct, given that is the consensus across much of the media coverage.

gaffer91

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

What's absolutely bizarre is that some people think that a ref is capable of giving all dodgy decisions to one team.

Well that's not bizarre given that it happens not infrequently.

But it was mostly Dublin fans claiming that the ref gave all the dodgy decisions to one team. But what was bizarre was that they thought that team was Kerry when anyone with two functioning eyes (one eye might even do) could see that wasn't the case and that it was Dublin who benefitted, consistently.

Dublin can count themselves very lucky to get all the dodgy breaks from the referee once again.