All-Ireland SFC Final 2019.- Dublin V Kerry - Read Mod Note in Post #1

Bonniedog

Wouldn't have much time for whoever is in charge of "entertainment" in CP. Would much prefer seeing kids playing games and shut the fkn tannoy off so we can worry in peace.

keane2097

Bonniedog wrote: »

Wouldn't have much time for whoever is in charge of "entertainment" in CP. Would much prefer seeing kids playing games and shut the fkn tannoy off so we can worry in peace.

I dunno does anyone remember, they used to play this bizarre cover version of 'Gypsys, Tramps & Thieves' before every game I went to there for about five years.

It was the weirdest thing. Like, a terrible song, totally inappropriate and a mind-bogglingly **** version of it - and it was played in Croke Park repeatedly! Very strange, I'd love to get the story behind that some time.

I agree wholeheartedly about the 'entertainment' & the tannoy.

FrancieBrady

robbiezero wrote: »

Not really following you at all.
As mentioned earlier, Fitzsimons made a nice block from a somewhat lazy effort at a shot from Geaney. Ball deflected out over the end line. No reward at all for the good defending as Kerry got a relatively straightforward kick at goal as a result and got a point anyway (straightforward for the likes of Sean O'Shea).
I don't see any relationship between that and the rugby advantage for foul play.

You want to change the rule for putting the ball out over your own line?

So there would be no 'reward' for good attacking?

I think you have lost it here tbh.

gormdubhgorm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Wouldn't have much time for whoever is in charge of "entertainment" in CP. Would much prefer seeing kids playing games and shut the fkn tannoy off so we can worry in peace.

Did you not break into a 'ring-a-ring-a-rosey' with Phelim Drew?

robbiezero

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You want to change the rule for putting the ball out over your own line?

So there would be no 'reward' for good attacking?

I think you have lost it here tbh.

I disagree. Why is the ball being deflected over the end line "good attacking" rather than "good defending"?
Possession back should be enough for the attacking team rather than a dead ball scoring chance.
I would imagine at the time of the initial implementation of the rule didn't foresee that in the future, these would be relatively straightforward chances (especially in hurling with the lighter sliotar).

corny

keane2097 wrote: »

That's a Raglan Road reference, before you say it I know he's from Monaghan!

I do think it's bizarre that pre-match that at a neutral venue on All Ireland final day while both teams are warming up on the field, someone somewhere decided that it was an appropriate thing to bring out the son of one of the Dubliners to sing a song about Dublin to the Dublin fans.

Like could you stretch to feeling the slightest bit of empathy as to why we might find that a bit obnoxious and a bit annoying? I'm not a (totally) rabid lunatic (I think) but Christ the GAA seem almost to be deliberately antagonising the rest of us at times with every little decision they make.

I thought there was balance. The young, blind Kerry lad got his chance to stir the crowd up moments earlier. At least his speech was rousing. All the younger Drew did was suck the life out of the stadium.

salmocab

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You want to change the rule for putting the ball out over your own line?

So there would be no 'reward' for good attacking?

I think you have lost it here tbh.

Surely the reward for good attacking would be a score, I think he’s right and had never thought about it before people make great saves or blocks only for the attacking team to be rewarded with often an easier chance to score. Putting it out on purpose is different to making a block and the ball deflecting wide.

keane2097

corny wrote: »

I thought there was balance. The young, blind Kerry lad got his chance to stir the crowd up moments earlier. At least his speech was rousing. All the younger Drew did was suck the life out of the stadium.

I forgot about your man being interviewed. I suppose you could look at it that way. I think we would most of us agree that we could do without any of that stuff, and particularly that gob****e from Florida at half time - Christ Almighty someone needs to be taken around the back of the stand and shot for that, not to mind losing their job.

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

Seriously, Aslan playing in Croke Park were given as one of the reasons why Dublin win All-Irelands.

I couldn't care less about who sings, but to be fair, all the better songs are from Dublin (the worst thing about a Mayo All-Ireland victory would be hearing moonlight in mayo), but that is for another forum.

'Seriously', what was stated about aslan is exactly what is being said now about the halftime entertainment by keane2097 at the weekend. It is disrespectful to one set of fans and to a team who deserve to be there as much as anyone else does. It is simply a bad idea no matter what way you look at it. How much you care about it isn't relevant.

FrancieBrady

salmocab wrote: »

Surely the reward for good attacking would be a score, I think he’s right and had never thought about it before people make great saves or blocks only for the attacking team to be rewarded with often an easier chance to score. Putting it out on purpose is different to making a block and the ball deflecting wide.

Putting the ball out over your own line, or being forced to make a save...is the result of a good attack.

Attacking teams generally are given the advantage for a reason. It makes for a better game.

gormdubhgorm

keane2097 wrote: »

Who will they wheel out to do the pre-match singalong with the Dublin fans at next week's neutral venue replay?

Enjoyed Phelim Drew's ten minute rendition of the Rare Old Times during the warm-up. Maybe a bit of Damien Dempsey next time?

corny wrote: »

I thought there was balance. The young, blind Kerry lad got his chance to stir the crowd up moments earlier. At least his speech was rousing. All the younger Drew did was suck the life out of the stadium.

keane2097 wrote: »

Whoever you think - I don't mind. Ye'd have a better idea of that stuff

I just want the chance to bask in that lovely pre-match feeling again where you soak in the raspy Dublin accent, wistfully recall memories of Grafton Street in Novembers long past and whisper softly to yourself 'oh, the beautiful neutrality of it all'!

They did have Damien Dempsey billed as pre match entertainment in one of the AI's v Mayo. It was either before the minor or half time at the minor.
He did a good job and even threw in a few 'up the dubs'

Personally I would prefer songs with a bit of 'go' in them in CP. Aslan 'Crazy World'/ Bagatelle 'Summer in Dublin'
All the Trad stuff can be a bit of a buzz kill and is more suited to the pub - there are not many upbeat trad songs!

I did laugh when P.Drew was serenading the hill, it was a bit odd felt out of place. Wondering what Kerry would make of it all.

From the top of my head I cannot think of any Kerry singers or a decent Kerry song. That is part of the problem - does 'The Rose of Tralee' really get the place jumping? Kerry are more known for thier playwrights not singers.

What they should have done for Kerry supporters - was get someone from Kerry to read out this quote from John B.Keane -

"Being a Kerryman, in my opinion, is the greatest gift that God can bestow on any man. When you belong to Kerry you know you have a head start on the other fellow. In belonging to Kerry you belong to the elements, to the spheres spinning in the Heavens. You belong to History and Language and Romance and Ancient Song. It is almost unbearable being a Kerryman and it is an awesome responsibility."

Maybe then they could have introduced young Michael O'Brien from Kerry or better still Michael could have read out the quote if they wrote it for him in braille?
It would have really lifted the whole crowd, and not just the Kerry people.

Bonniedog

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Did you not break into a 'ring-a-ring-a-rosey' with Phelim Drew?

I did not,

And for the very good reason that the Hill was in full voice singing that particular song in 2006 when Mayo got the goal that turned the tide.

gormdubhgorm

Bonniedog wrote: »

I did not,

And for the very good reason that the Hill was in full voice singing that particular song in 2006 when Mayo got the goal that turned the tide.

haha and I thought it was only the Kerry people like Paidi O'Sé believed in the Piseogs!

keane2097

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They did have Damien Dempsey billed as pre match entertainment in one of the AI's v Mayo. It was either before the minor or half time at the minor.
He did a good job and even threw in a few 'up the dubs'

Personally I would prefer songs with a bit of 'go' in them in CP. Aslan 'Crazy World'/ Bagatelle 'Summer in Dublin'
All the Trad stuff can be a bit of a buzz kill and is more suited to the pub - there are not many upbeat trad songs!

I did laugh when P.Drew was serenading the hill, it was a bit odd felt out of place. Wondering what Kerry would make of it all.

From the top of my head I cannot think of any Kerry singers or a decent Kerry song. That is part of the problem - does 'The Rose of Tralee' really get the place jumping? Kerry are more known for thier playwrights not singers.

What they should have done for Kerry supporters - was get someone from Kerry to read out this quote from John B.Keane -

"Being a Kerryman, in my opinion, is the greatest gift that God can bestow on any man. When you belong to Kerry you know you have a head start on the other fellow. In belonging to Kerry you belong to the elements, to the spheres spinning in the Heavens. You belong to History and Language and Romance and Ancient Song. It is almost unbearable being a Kerryman and it is an awesome responsibility."

Maybe then they could have introduced young Michael O'Brien from Kerry or better still Michael could have read out the quote if they wrote it for him in braille?
It would have really lifted the whole crowd, and not just the Kerry people.

I think it's more a Cork song but I'd go for a bit bit of Poc Ar Buile if I was given the option. Either that or Gypsys, Tramps & Thieves just to wreck heads!

Poor_old_gill

That song about 'Sam Maguire is coming home to Mayo' to the tune of the Banana boat song would give everyone an ironic laugh and break the pre-match tension

Bonniedog

That's mean, but at least it would be funny.

Anyone remember the year they had a bizarre race across the pitch at half time between a Kerry person in a large bubble and a Dub?

Kerry person won and someone in front of us proposed that this was a good omen. To general mirth on all sides.

They could maybe have telly bingo or something.

tomwaits48

keane2097 wrote: »

That's a Raglan Road reference, before you say it I know he's from Monaghan!

I do think it's bizarre that pre-match that at a neutral venue on All Ireland final day while both teams are warming up on the field, someone somewhere decided that it was an appropriate thing to bring out the son of one of the Dubliners to sing a song about Dublin to the Dublin fans.

Like could you stretch to feeling the slightest bit of empathy as to why we might find that a bit obnoxious and a bit annoying? I'm not a (totally) rabid lunatic (I think) but Christ the GAA seem almost to be deliberately antagonising the rest of us at times with every little decision they make.

where you at the match? before this they had a nice young Kerry blind boy whipping up the Kerry crowd

gormdubhgorm

Bonniedog wrote: »

That's mean, but at least it would be funny.

Anyone remember the year they had a bizarre race across the pitch at half time between a Kerry person in a large bubble and a Dub?

Kerry person won and someone in front of us proposed that this was a good omen. To general mirth on all sides.

They could maybe have telly bingo or something.

Oh yeah I vaguely remember that - I suppose at least they were trying something.

I was watching a bit of Old Brendan Grace stuff lately. And I thought what if they put a comedian out at half time.
Someone like Des Bishop throw a few remarks about the teams and the players etc.
That could work better then the flat songs.
It needs to be something that all generations in the crowd can get into.

gormdubhgorm

tomwaits48 wrote: »

where you at the match? before this they had a nice young Kerry blind boy whipping up the Kerry crowd

Michael O'Brien only 11 he told the wexford hurlers to 'dream big', and the Kerry lads to 'dream bigger'!

There were no nightmares from either of them anyway so it must have worked!

gormdubhgorm

keane2097 wrote: »

I think it's more a Cork song but I'd go for a bit bit of Poc Ar Buile if I was given the option. Either that or Gypsys, Tramps & Thieves just to wreck heads!

Poc ar buile I like that one didn't know it was known as a Kerry song.
I didn't know that Gypsys, Tramps & Thieves song till you mentioned it.
Jayus it is awful.
Maybe one of the Healy-Rae's could sing it maybe a duet?

keane2097

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Poc ar buille I like that one didn't know it was known as a Kerry song.
I didn't know that Gypsys, Tramps & Thieves song till you mentioned it.
Jayus it is awful.
Maybe one of the Healy-Rae's could sing it maybe a duet?

God be with the days there were two constituencies in Kerry so we could blame the Healy-Raes on the southerners.

Bonniedog

The Boys of Barr na Sráide is best Kerry song.

In 70s they used to have a song the band played for each team before a big game. "20 Men from Dublin Town" was Dublin one. Can't actually remember the Kerry one but most had some historical/republican flavour and so of course that fell under the Conor Cruise Fatwa.

gormdubhgorm

Bonniedog wrote: »

The Boys of Barr na Sráide is best Kerry song.

In 70s they used to have a song the band played for each team before a big game. "20 Men from Dublin Town" was Dublin one. Can't actually remember the Kerry one but most had some historical/republican flavour and so of course that fell under the Conor Cruise Fatwa.

I never heard that The Boys of Barr na Sráide one it's good bit slow which always seems to be the problem with the Trad ones.

They should bring out this one to sing it -

Better than looking at a beardy Drew anyway!

salmocab

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Putting the ball out over your own line, or being forced to make a save...is the result of a good attack.

Attacking teams generally are given the advantage for a reason. It makes for a better game.

The posters point though is that someone makes an excellent block and they nearly needn’t have bothered because the attacker gets another much easier chance. I think it might make sense to change these to indirect so the attacking team still have the ball but not an almost guaranteed point.

keane2097

salmocab wrote: »

The posters point though is that someone makes an excellent block and they nearly needn’t have bothered because the attacker gets another much easier chance. I think it might make sense to change these to indirect so the attacking team still have the ball but not an almost guaranteed point.

The notion that a 45 is an easy chance is daft. I can't dig out the exact figure for 45 success rate but I know a few years ago dontfoul had it at less than 50%

jr86

keane2097 wrote: »

The notion that a 45 is an easy chance is daft. I can't dig out the exact figure for 45 success rate but I know a few years ago dontfoul had it at less than 50%

45s maybe not, but the 65 in hurling anywhere in front of the goal is a very straightforward chance for any half decent free-taker even in underage. Even ones near the sideline any county free-taker will put over 9 times out of 10.

The likes of Ronan maher are putting feckin sideline cuts over from 70 plus yards out nowadays!

FrancieBrady

salmocab wrote: »

The posters point though is that someone makes an excellent block and they nearly needn’t have bothered because the attacker gets another much easier chance. I think it might make sense to change these to indirect so the attacking team still have the ball but not an almost guaranteed point.

You can't give an advantage for putting the ball out of play either accidentally or purposefully. And if it 'stops' an attack you can be damn sure that it would become an infuriating/damaging part of the game. While some teams are good at it, a 45 is never a sure score.

Another case of not thinking of the whole game that is played by more than the top elite skilled players.

keane2097

jr86 wrote: »

45s maybe not, but the 65 in hurling anywhere in front of the goal is a very straightforward chance for any half decent free-taker even in underage. Even ones near the sideline any county free-taker will put over 9 times out of 10.

The likes of Ronan maher are putting feckin sideline cuts over from 70 plus yards out nowadays!

Yerra who cares about hurling

Strumms

Hammer Archer wrote: »

With all due respect, going by your posts this season, the only way a referee would have a "good game" to you would be if every single decision was given to Dublin. And even then you'd probably find fault. Your posts regarding referees in Dublin games are some of the most biased here.
Gough had a decent game. The reason you're complaining is that he made crucial but correct decisions that affected Dublin.

With all due respect if you believe that you might want to back it up with facts or indeed quote said posts of mine that articulated or intimated that for a referee to have a “good game” he would need to give “every single decision to Dublin”. Unfortunately what you have posted is simply inaccurate hyperbole.

The reason I and other fans of the sport including respected players current and former from several counties are complaining is that he performed very poorly consistently throughout the game and negativity impacted it as a fair spectacle and sporting occasion which is tough to take for a final, the showpiece most important game of the year.

liosnagceann75

Strumms wrote: »

With all due respect if you believe that you might want to back it up with facts or indeed quote said posts of mine that articulated or intimated that for a referee to have a “good game” he would need to give “every single decision to Dublin”. Unfortunately what you have posted is simply inaccurate hyperbole.

The reason I and other fans of the sport including respected players current and former from several counties are complaining is that he performed very poorly consistently throughout the game and negativity impacted it as a fair spectacle and sporting occasion which is tough to take for a final, the showpiece most important game of the year.

Ref was fair to both sides. Time to move on

Strumms

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

Ref was fair to both sides. Time to move on

His performance would indicate otherwise..time to move HIM on.

robbiezero

Strumms wrote: »

His performance would indicate otherwise..time to move HIM on.

By a mile, the general consensus is that he had a very good game. The likes of Whelan, Brolly and Brennan made eejits of themselves on TV.
Where are " respected players current and former from several counties " who thought he had a poor game. The vast majority of commentary would indicate otherwise.

liosnagceann75

Strumms wrote: »

His performance would indicate otherwise..time to move HIM on.

Who'd want to be a ref with the amount of flak they get. You do know there's a new ref for the replay

robbiezero

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can't give an advantage for putting the ball out of play either accidentally or purposefully. And if it 'stops' an attack you can be damn sure that it would become an infuriating/damaging part of the game. While some teams are good at it, a 45 is never a sure score.

Another case of not thinking of the whole game that is played by more than the top elite skilled players.

With all the effort that modern day teams put into retaining possession I think it is very unlikely teams will start putting the ball out over their own line and give possession back to their opponents.
You are losing it here tbh.

FrancieBrady

robbiezero wrote: »

With all the effort that modern day teams put into retaining possession I think it is very unlikely teams will start putting the ball out over their own line and give possession back to their opponents.
You are losing it here tbh.

It would be a way to reset the chances of possession to 50/50 from a position of being under attack. Not a team in the country who not not exploit that.

Strumms

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

Who'd want to be a ref with the amount of flak they get. You do know there's a new ref for the replay

If you step out and put yourself forward, as a referee, player, manager you know you are a big part of the game, you know that in a free democracy people...supporters, media, players etc. can and will in the spirit and with interest in the game, comment positively, critically or both in regards to the performances of anyone on the pitch or sideline. I’m aware of the new ref as I’ve commented.

ArnoldJRimmer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It would be a way to reset the chances of possession to 50/50 from a position of being under attack. Not a team in the country who not not exploit that.

Imagine what Rory Gallagher, wherever he ends up, would do with a rule such as this. 'No need to play the ball out the field lads, we just need to put it out of play and re-set the formation.'

I think its amazing we're even talking about this. Yes Sean O Shea makes banging over a 45 look easy, its really not though, particularly given the sh!te weather in Ireland for a lot of the GAA season. And how many 45's are there during an average game?

liosnagceann75

Strumms wrote: »

If you step out and put yourself forward, as a referee, player, manager you know you are a big part of the game, you know that in a free democracy people...supporters, media, players etc. can and will in the spirit and with interest in the game, comment positively, critically or both in regards to the performances of anyone on the pitch or sideline. I’m aware of the new ref as I’ve commented.

You seem to have an answer for everything. Fair play to you. Ever try referring yourself?

Strumms

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

You seem to have an answer for everything. Fair play to you. Ever try referring yourself?

Welcome to boards.ie where people post... answers, opinions and engage in debate

I have tried refereeing or ‘referring’ ?, difficult job in fairness. I’d never have considered myself beyond criticism though... or indeed hid behind mistakes or terrible performances.

robbiezero

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

Imagine what Rory Gallagher, wherever he ends up, would do with a rule such as this. 'No need to play the ball out the field lads, we just need to put it out of play and re-set the formation.'

I think its amazing we're even talking about this. Yes Sean O Shea makes banging over a 45 look easy, its really not though, particularly given the sh!te weather in Ireland for a lot of the GAA season. And how many 45's are there during an average game?

Its a minor issue at the moment and its probably not the time or place for it anyway. Its not such an issue in football as it is in hurling at the moment. I'm sure it will come up at a later date.

Someone mentioned it earlier and I thought the same at the time, that from a really poor effort at a point from Geaney and a good block from Fitzsimons, that it seemed a bit harsh that such a good bit of defending was only rewarded with a free shot at goal from the superb and mercurial O'Shea. No big deal either way.

Why Rory Gallagher would advocate giving the ball back to the opposition as you suggest I have no idea.

gormdubhgorm

keane2097 wrote: »

Yerra who cares about hurling

Yeah sure youse even let Vinnie Murphy hurl for Kerry!

https://punditarena.com/gaa/mcorry/vinnie-murphy-kerry-dublin-final/

liosnagceann75

Strumms wrote: »

Welcome to boards.ie where people post... answers, opinions and engage in debate

I have tried refereeing or ‘referring’ ?, difficult job in fairness. I’d never have considered myself beyond criticism though... or indeed hid behind mistakes or terrible performances.

Your entitled to your opinion but posting a comment about moving Gough on, knowing that he's not reffing the final is unnecessary

keane2097

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yeah sure youse even let Vinnie Murphy hurl for Kerry!

https://punditarena.com/gaa/mcorry/vinnie-murphy-kerry-dublin-final/

I won't hear a bad word said about Vinnie, a Strand Road legend. He had a great interview last week with one of the guys from Off The Ball where he talked a lot about his time down with us. They were great days. People mightn't realise how good he was. He scored about 11 points his first game in the County League, and the County League was very competitive that time!

I remember standing up to clap him on when he was introduced that day below in Clonmel when most of the rest of the Kerry crowd were booing him :pac:

Incidentally bad form by our crowd booing Connolly when he came on, I don't really see any need for that. Just emotions running high maybe. I remember him checking to see if Crowley was alright after that hit in the SF in 2016 before he realised 'oh **** I better play on' and went down and kicked the insurance point. That he stopped to check was a good sign of him.

Strumms

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

Your entitled to your opinion but posting a comment about moving Gough on, knowing that he's not reffing the final is unnecessary

I was talking about moving him from consideration to referee top games such as All Ireland finals. His performance the last day unfortunately will have led to a lot of players and officials countrywide as well as Croke Park officials having serious concerns as regards his abilities and temperament going forward.

keane2097

Strumms wrote: »

I was talking about moving him from consideration to referee top games such as All Ireland finals. His performance the last day unfortunately will have led to a lot of players and officials countrywide as well as Croke Park officials having serious concerns as regards his abilities and temperament going forward.

We told ye.

gormdubhgorm

keane2097 wrote: »

I won't hear a bad word said about Vinnie, a Strand Road legend. He had a great interview last week with one of the guys from Off The Ball where he talked a lot about his time down with us. They were great days. People mightn't realise how good he was. He scored about 11 points his first game in the County League, and the County League was very competitive that time!

I remember there was rumours that Paidi could pick him for the footballers.
Vinnie said it was never going to happen.
My auld fella taught in Vinnie's former secondary school, and said as a young lad Vinnie was a way better hurler than footballer.

ArnoldJRimmer

Strumms wrote: »

I was talking about moving him from consideration to referee top games such as All Ireland finals. His performance the last day unfortunately will have led to a lot of players and officials countrywide as well as Croke Park officials having serious concerns as regards his abilities and temperament going forward.

Just because you keep repeating the same point doesn't make it right. The general consensus seems to be that he had a good game, with of course other people disagreeing. I'm yet to hear anyone who isn't a Dub, or an honorary Dub (I'm looking at you Brolly) express real concerns with his performance. Question some decisions yes, but you're making it sound like he made mistakes as big as Martin Sludden's or whoever that ref from Offaly v Clare in 98 was

daveorourke77

keane2097 wrote: »

We told ye.

Told us what?

keane2097

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I remember there was rumours that Paidi could pick him for the footballers.
Vinnie said it was never going to happen.
My auld fella taught in Vinnie's former secondary school, and said as a young lad Vinnie was a way better hurler than footballer.

He actually said in that interview there was a bit of communication about him playing at first but when Kerry won the league it put paid to the idea. I got the impression he was so embittered by what had happened with Dublin he would have played.

He said he felt very bad after putting on the jersey to play the hurling. I'm glad it didn't happen with the football in retrospect for both parties. There's no question he was good enough at the time though, he was unreal. I don't think there was anyone better than him other than Maurice in Kerry in '97.

liosnagceann75

Strumms wrote: »

I was talking about moving him from consideration to referee top games such as All Ireland finals. His performance the last day unfortunately will have led to a lot of players and officials countrywide as well as Croke Park officials having serious concerns as regards his abilities and temperament going forward.

I disagree strongly. He had a good game in a pressure cooker environment. Wouldn't like to see him ruled out for future big games