All-Ireland SFC Final 2019.- Dublin V Kerry - Read Mod Note in Post #1

gormdubhgorm

Do Kerry people think Walsh will start the next day?
Surely he is a definite with Dublin's back line unsettled as it is?
I think if Walsh brought on earlier there would have been a lot of depressed Dubs, and happy Kerry people at the final whistle.

moghrasa

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

I disagree strongly. He had a good game in a pressure cooker environment. Wouldn't like to see him ruled out for future big games

No, no. He didn't give everything to Dublin. So clearly he's an incompetent twit that be sent to bed with a slapped arse to think about the consequences of his actions...

Strumms

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

Just because you keep repeating the same point doesn't make it right. The general consensus seems to be that he had a good game, with of course other people disagreeing. I'm yet to hear anyone who isn't a Dub, or an honorary Dub (I'm looking at you Brolly) express real concerns with his performance. Question some decisions yes, but you're making it sound like he made mistakes as big as Martin Sludden's or whoever that ref from Offaly v Clare in 98 was

Rather than ‘repeating the same point’ I’m entering into a discussion, which last time anyone checked was a pretty common occurrence on boards.ie

Interesting that you are classing Joe Brolly as an ‘honorary’ DUB simply by virtue of him stating the fact the the referee was poor and that his lack of quality penalized Dublin in the main...

gormdubhgorm

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

I disagree strongly. He had a good game in a pressure cooker environment. Wouldn't like to see him ruled out for future big games

I felt sorry for the fella he was put under extra pressure with all the guff surrounding him pre-match.
Granted he made a few mistakes/calls here and there that could have gone the other way. But sure every game as those. I thought he was doing his best.
Very finicky ref though.

liosnagceann75

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Do Kerry people think Walsh will start the next day?
Surely he is a definite with Dublin's back line unsettled as it is?
I think if Walsh brought on earlier there would have been a lot of depressed Dubs, and happy Kerry people at the final whistle.

I'd still bring him on but sooner. If he starts and doesn't make an impression then I'd think it would act negatively on the other Kerry players. I'm a big fan of Tommy's and felt he was poorly treated by the previous management team

ArnoldJRimmer

Strumms wrote: »

Rather than ‘repeating the same point’ I’m entering into a discussion, which last time anyone checked was a pretty common occurrence on boards.ie

Interesting that you are classing Joe Brolly as an ‘honorary’ DUB simply by virtue of him stating the fact the the referee was poor and that his lack of quality penalized Dublin in the main...

Yes, and the same 'discussion' since Sunday at around 4 o clock. You don't like the ref, and you're trying to frame a narrative for over 48 hours that he was somehow negligent in the game. We get it, feel free to continue going on about it, thats what discussion forums are for, and similarly I can talk about how you're making the same point over and over again

Brolly has been gushing over the Dubs for years and years now, its not based on one incident on Sunday.

Strumms

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I thought he was doing his best.
Very finicky ref though.

He was very whistle happy and finicky, while doing his best I just felt that the quality of his performance was totally sub par, beyond belief for a final with so much at stake. Dublin were on the receiving end of more errors then the opposition.

Strumms

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

Brolly has been gushing over the Dubs for years and years now, its not based on one incident on Sunday.

Dublin have won from memory... six of the last ten all Ireland’s or thereabouts. Playing attractive, attacking and stylish football. If a pundit has been gushing or been delivering praise on those basis ‘for years’ then I guess he has been doing that element of his job pretty well.

ThunbergsAreGo

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

I disagree strongly. He had a good game in a pressure cooker environment. Wouldn't like to see him ruled out for future big games

I felt sorry for the fella he was put under extra pressure with all the guff surrounding him pre-match.
Granted he made a few mistakes/calls here and there that could have gone the other way. But sure every game as those. I thought he was doing his best.
Very finicky ref though.

Yeah I don't like seeing him referee Dublin games, not cos he's pro or anti Dub just that he is infuriatingly inconsistent.

It's like he calls pulls off the ball or steps for 5 mins and forgets about it for the rest of the game. It just gives people a platform to have a go at him.

Was very surprised he got the final after his mistake in the Dublin Cork game.

As many of said it is a hard job though. Impossible to get it all right.

liosnagceann75

Strumms wrote: »

He was very whistle happy and finicky, while doing his best I just felt that the quality of his performance was totally sub par, beyond belief for a final with so much at stake. Dublin were on the receiving end of more errors then the opposition.

That can be the nature of sport

keane2097

That interview is here if anyone is interested

https://mobile.twitter.com/ShaneSaint/status/1165553816458145793

munster87

Strumms wrote: »

He was very whistle happy and finicky, while doing his best I just felt that the quality of his performance was totally sub par, beyond belief for a final with so much at stake. Dublin were on the receiving end of more errors then the opposition.

Who do you think is the best referee at the moment?

The_Honeybadger

Strumms wrote: »

He was very whistle happy and finicky, while doing his best I just felt that the quality of his performance was totally sub par, beyond belief for a final with so much at stake. Dublin were on the receiving end of more errors then the opposition.

As pointed out previously in the thread the only thing that would make you happy is if Dublin get every single call go their way regardless of whether the decisions are correct or not. I’m not sure how familiar you are with the rules of the game but all of his major decisions Sunday were technically correct as widely agreed by most commentators and he had a fine final. Your cribbing is laughable but continue if it makes you happy.

gormdubhgorm

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

Brolly has been gushing over the Dubs for years and years now, its not based on one incident on Sunday.

Strumms wrote: »

Dublin have won from memory... six of the last ten all Ireland’s or thereabouts. Playing attractive, attacking and stylish football. If a pundit has been gushing or been delivering praise on those basis ‘for years’ then I guess he has been doing that element of his job pretty well.

I wouldn't be paying heed to what Brolly is saying, Donegal were his favourites when they were winning - system etc
Then he decided McGuinness would bore us all to death.
Dublin are definitely his new pets now - great men not just as footballers as people etc. Then Cantwell has to check him on his talking up the Dubs - other footballers are nice people too not just the Dubs!
He will probably switch to Kerry soon.

Much as it pains me to say it I think Tomas O'Sé is the best pundit on the panel - he is clear in his analysis. Is extremely careful not to be biased and calls it as he sees it.
The others can get a bit parochial which is only natural I suppose.

Strumms

munster87 wrote: »

Who do you think is the best referee at the moment?

Maurice Deegan when refereeing seems like a pretty balanced, fair and competent individual.

munster87

Strumms wrote: »

Maurice Deegan when refereeing seems like a pretty balanced, fair and competent individual.

It’s very hard to pick a decent ref. A very split topic. How do you rate Lane?

ThunbergsAreGo

munster87 wrote: »

Strumms wrote: »

Maurice Deegan when refereeing seems like a pretty balanced, fair and competent individual.

It’s very hard to pick a decent ref. A very split topic. How do you rate Lane?

He doesn't allow enough contact for my liking but he's consistent in how he referees the game

gormdubhgorm

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

That can be the nature of sport

To be honest I can't remember being made annoyed at the ref.
If Dublin lost I would have said fair enough Cooper should have gone - he is always getting away with it from less strict refs.
'Playing on the edge' is the phrase used about him.
The peno might be viewed as harsh if it was viewed through the GAA lens of 'it's part of the game'
But Gough is a stickler for rules if he thought it was a foul he called the foul.

Wooly Parkinson agrees that it was a peno as well -

ArnoldJRimmer

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I wouldn't be paying heed to what Brolly is saying, Donegal were his favourites when they were winning - system etc
Then he decided McGuinness would bore us all to death.
Dublin are definitely his new pets now - great men not just as footballers as people etc. Then Cantwell has to check him on his talking up the Dubs - other footballers are nice people too not just the Dubs!
He will probably switch to Kerry soon.

Much as it pains me to say it I think Tomas O'Sé is the best pundit on the panel - he is clear in his analysis. Is extremely careful not to be biased and calls it as he sees it.
The others can get a bit parochial which is only natural I suppose.

Definitely aware of the fickleness of Brolly, and how one eyed he is about his new pet. Prior to Donegal, it was Tyrone that could do no wrong in the noughties. Point is, when he is in your corner, he's all in as your biggest fan where he'll defend you to the hilt. Thats the Dubs right now

Tomas O Se is excellent, I like Ciaran Whelan and McStay in small doses. The rest are different levels of poor, with Cavanagh a very distant last

Strumms

munster87 wrote: »

It’s very hard to pick a decent ref. A very split topic. How do you rate Lane?

what I have seen he seems to be not as whistle happy as Gough or that keen to make HIS mark on the occasion.

seligehgit

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

I disagree strongly. He had a good game in a pressure cooker environment. Wouldn't like to see him ruled out for future big games

Zero chance he'll be ruled out for future big games.

ThunbergsAreGo

Bit random but they mentioned on the radio that Hawkeye was called on the Costello point as the Hawkeye person looked at it.

So why is it ever called? If all points are looked at by Hawkeye then they should know if it's over or not before it's been shown to the crowd.

keane2097

naughtb4 wrote: »

Bit random but they mentioned on the radio that Hawkeye was called on the Costello point as the Hawkeye person looked at it.

So why is it ever called? If all points are looked at by Hawkeye then they should know if it's over or not before it's been shown to the crowd.

So far as I know they look at everything and call back mistakes. The umpires can call it if they just don't know. I think the hawkeye person checks every score.

ThunbergsAreGo

keane2097 wrote: »

naughtb4 wrote: »

Bit random but they mentioned on the radio that Hawkeye was called on the Costello point as the Hawkeye person looked at it.

So why is it ever called? If all points are looked at by Hawkeye then they should know if it's over or not before it's been shown to the crowd.

So far as I know they look at everything and call back mistakes. The umpires can call it if they just don't know. I think the hawkeye person checks every score.

So if something like that happens, you know it's not a score !!!!

keane2097

naughtb4 wrote: »

So if something like that happens, you know it's not a score !!!!

Yeah the second the play stopped the last day I said 'yes, that was wide'

tomwaits48

rm75 wrote: »

I'm of the view that most ref's will do their best but mistakes can happen.

If you feel some team is being persecuted over a long period go off and spend your time analyzing it. Best of luck with it.

Your the one making the unsubstantiated claim.

Bonniedog

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I remember there was rumours that Paidi could pick him for the footballers.
Vinnie said it was never going to happen.
My auld fella taught in Vinnie's former secondary school, and said as a young lad Vinnie was a way better hurler than footballer.

I played against him when he was with Monicas. It was Junior Cup, but he was still one of the best players on the pitch and phenomenally fit still at nearly 40. Probably still at it

robbiezero

Bonniedog wrote: »

I played against him when he was with Monicas. It was Junior Cup, but he was still one of the best players on the pitch and phenomenally fit still at nearly 40. Probably still at it

Same. Was quite an experience. A robust full-forward to say the least.

Bonniedog

In that game, he took all the puck outs, all the frees and generally roamed the field like a young bull!

Then at end when we beat them in an heroic Eddie Barron campaign (for which we never 14 years later got a winner's trophy or medal -( They turned on the ref who had to take to his bicycle still in his gear and leg it down to the road to cries of "Go back to Raheny ye count."

aodomhnaill

I think the best move the GAA could make would be to make the referees professional. This would not in any way discredit amateur status/ compromise the integrity of the game. There's about 5 so called decent refs and they've nearly reached celebrity status at this stage with everyone knowing their background etc. who the f*ck knew or cared who or where the ref came 30 years ago, its a joke now with the talk who the ref is...so you've the end the result of some ref like gough becoming centre of attention, ask anyone who the name of the ref was now and they'll know it before they can name 10 starting players. make referees professional and you'll get the best people to make the best judgements and also dish out praise or criticism at their performances. what kind of a mad man would choose to be one voluntarily...needs professionals.

Edgware

aodomhnaill wrote: »

I think the best move the GAA could make would be to make the referees professional. This would not in any way discredit amateur status/ compromise the integrity of the game. There's about 5 so called decent refs and they've nearly reached celebrity status at this stage with everyone knowing their background etc. who the f*ck knew or cared who or where the ref came 30 years ago, its a joke now with the talk who the ref is...so you've the end the result of some ref like gough becoming centre of attention, ask anyone who the name of the ref was now and they'll know it before they can name 10 starting players. make referees professional and you'll get the best people to make the best judgements and also dish out praise or criticism at their performances. what kind of a mad man would choose to be one voluntarily...needs professionals.

No way. Professional referees have great history of ****ing up in other sports

aodomhnaill

Edgware wrote: »

No way. Professional referees have great history of ****ing up in other sports

explain...bit vague there.

Edgware

aodomhnaill wrote: »

explain...bit vague there.

Check it out yourself I've more to be doing.

aodomhnaill

Edgware wrote: »

Check it out yourself I've more to be doing.

ok, ive checked it out. apparently professional referees perform to a far higher standard than amateurs. anything to add?

Edgware

aodomhnaill wrote: »

ok, ive checked it out. apparently professional referees perform to a far higher standard than amateurs. anything to add?

Higher standard but still **** up
Its only an amateur sport. After Saturday week it wont be heard of again until the Spring.
Are you prepared to pay extra for your tickets to subsidise these " elite" referees?

keane2097

You could argue the level of professional and amateur analysis has more improvement to make than the level of refereeing.

JustJoe7240

Edgware wrote: »

No way. Professional referees have great history of ****ing up in other sports

Edgware wrote: »

Check it out yourself I've more to be doing.

Makes a sensationalistic statement,

Has "more to be doing" when asked to back up sensationalist statement!

Ok

gormdubhgorm

aodomhnaill wrote: »

I think the best move the GAA could make would be to make the referees professional. This would not in any way discredit amateur status/ compromise the integrity of the game. There's about 5 so called decent refs and they've nearly reached celebrity status at this stage with everyone knowing their background etc. who the f*ck knew or cared who or where the ref came 30 years ago, its a joke now with the talk who the ref is...so you've the end the result of some ref like gough becoming centre of attention, ask anyone who the name of the ref was now and they'll know it before they can name 10 starting players. make referees professional and you'll get the best people to make the best judgements and also dish out praise or criticism at their performances. what kind of a mad man would choose to be one voluntarily...needs professionals.

It is a good idea in theory, but once you introduce money and refs - it opens the door for corruption in the game.

Have to disagree with the other Dubs here, I thought the ref did okay. There were probably more questionable decisions that went against Dublin but the vast majority of the ones which didn't were way more important / in crucial areas of the pitch.

Cooper is an eejit for getting sent off. Nobody to blame but himself. Second yellow for the Kerry lad would have been harsh. Haven't seen a replay of Connolly fouling Lyne but at the time I thought the "no foul, Dublin line ball" call was correct.

Bottom line: Dublin played as badly as I've seen in maybe 4 years. Decision making, shot selection, marking, tracking runners..... All well below par. Kerry team didn't exactly light the place up but, relatively speaking, an above average performance. I was chuffed we managed a draw, relief was pouring off me. Genuinely can't see a repeat of that poor showing n the replay.

liosnagceann75

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Have to disagree with the other Dubs here, I thought the ref did okay. There were probably more questionable decisions that went against Dublin but the vast majority of the ones which did were way more important / in crucial areas of the pitch.

Cooper is an eejit for getting sent off. Nobody to blame but himself. Second yellow for the Kerry lad would have been harsh. Haven't seen a replay of Connolly fouling Lyne but at the time I thought the "no foul, Dublin line ball" call was correct.

Bottom line: Dublin played as badly as I've seen in maybe 4 years. Decision making, shot selection, marking, tracking runners..... All well below par. Kerry team didn't exactly light the place up but, relatively speaking, an above average performance. I was chuffed we managed a draw, relief was pouring off me. Genuinely can't see a repeat of that poor showing n the replay.

Thank you for your very balanced post. Very fair assessment of the match.

Nice article on David Gough on Joe.ie. Sorry I'm unable to post the link.

Fr Tod Umptious

Timmy Moynihan on Terrace Talk on Radio Kerry claimed that it was a "moment of genius" by Eamon Fitzmaurice to highlight questions about Gough's performance in previous games.

So he is suggesting that Gough would have probably not sent Cooper off if Fitzmaurice had not said what he said.

I found it hilarious.

The_Honeybadger

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Timmy Moynihan on Terrace Talk on Radio Kerry claimed that it was a "moment of genius" by Eamon Fitzmaurice to highlight questions about Gough's performance in previous games.

So he is suggesting that Gough would have probably not sent Cooper off if Fitzmaurice had not said what he said.

I found it hilarious.

Moynihan is a bit of an eejit and Terrace Talk is atrocious at this stage I don’t know why you’d be listening to it.
They really need to shake it up and bring in recently retired players like Donaghy and Aidan to give better analysis. Perhaps the guys they have on appeal to a certain type of listener but I don’t bother with it any more.

On the ref all Kerry wanted was a fair shake. There have been a few times in the past where we have gone up to face Dublin in big games and we haven’t gotten that imo.

Bonniedog

Well, if that's his idea of genius then so be it!

Mayo supporters were engaged in similar gloating after Horan made an issue of "Dublin Joe" on similar grounds in 2012.

Only difference being, Mayo won.

I shall leave it at that :-)

liosnagceann75

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Timmy Moynihan on Terrace Talk on Radio Kerry claimed that it was a "moment of genius" by Eamon Fitzmaurice to highlight questions about Gough's performance in previous games.

So he is suggesting that Gough would have probably not sent Cooper off if Fitzmaurice had not said what he said.

I found it hilarious.

Fitzmaurice had his chance and would be better off keeping his mouth shut. Great to see Tommy Walsh, Jack Sherwood and Jonathan Lyne contributing after being deemed surplus to requirements by Fitzmaurice.

Forge83

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

Fitzmaurice had his chance and would be better off keeping his mouth shut. Great to see Tommy Walsh, Jack Sherwood and Jonathan Lyne contributing after being deemed surplus to requirements by Fitzmaurice.

Jonathan Lyne doesn’t contribute much. Would be surprised if he is brought on in the replay. Shane Enright should have been brought on to steady the ship in the last ten minutes.

liosnagceann75

Forge83 wrote: »

Jonathan Lyne doesn’t contribute much. Would be surprised if he is brought on in the replay. Shane Enright should have been brought on to steady the ship in the last ten minutes.

I agree with you. I'd bring on Enright ahead of Lyne. The point I was making is that Fitzmaurice had his chance and should not be interfering or commenting on referees, players, tactics etc. There was an article in the Kerryman a few weeks ago expressing the same sentiment

D'Agger

Forge83 wrote: »

Jonathan Lyne doesn’t contribute much. Would be surprised if he is brought on in the replay. Shane Enright should have been brought on to steady the ship in the last ten minutes.

Agreed - Lyne coughed up posession looking for a free, I don't know what his club form has been like of late but he must be doing something in training that PK put him in ahead of Shane

Poor_old_gill

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

Fitzmaurice had his chance and would be better off keeping his mouth shut. Great to see Tommy Walsh, Jack Sherwood and Jonathan Lyne contributing after being deemed surplus to requirements by Fitzmaurice.

I've almost forgotten what it feels like for every team to create 7/8 goal chances by just putting their head down and running in a straight line through our defence.

I know McCaffrey got a goal the last day but that will be my permanent memory of Fitzmaurice - every team from Waterford to Tipp to Tyrone would find themselves 1 on 1 with the keeper by just running in a straight line - ludicrous defensive set up

Fr Tod Umptious

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Moynihan is a bit of an eejit and Terrace Talk is atrocious at this stage I don’t know why you’d be listening to it.
They really need to shake it up and bring in recently retired players like Donaghy and Aidan to give better analysis. Perhaps the guys they have on appeal to a certain type of listener but I don’t bother with it any more.

On the ref all Kerry wanted was a fair shake. There have been a few times in the past where we have gone up to face Dublin in big games and we haven’t gotten that imo.

Because it's great entertainment, like the bit from Moynihan I just posted about.

The_Honeybadger

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Because it's great entertainment, like the bit from Moynihan I just posted about.

Fair enough. I wouldn’t be taking the analysis too seriously though, or take what they say as the wider Kerry view.