All-Ireland SFC Final 2019.- Dublin V Kerry - Read Mod Note in Post #1

EICVD

Bonniedog wrote: »

Front combined six:

Scully, Kilkenny, Howard, Mannion, Callaghan, Rock.

Great minds & all that Bonnie

Slattsy

Bonniedog wrote: »

Front combined six:

Scully, Kilkenny, Howard, Mannion, Callaghan, Rock.

I lol'd into my coffee at this.

moghrasa

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Not sure exactly what have Meath, Kildare and Cork done to warrant being ahead of some of those other sides?

They're not from Ulster or The Wesht is about the best I can come up with.

99problems1

I find Kilkenny so over rated. He rarely ever kicks the ball. It's called football for a reason.

His trotting across the 45 soloing is not impressive.

Snow Garden

As a Galway neutral - Is it me or is the buildup to this All Ireland very muted? I don't hear many people talking about it. I will absolutely watch it and I would go if I got a ticket.

99problems1

Snow Garden wrote: »

As a Galway neutral - Is it me or is the buildup to this All Ireland very muted? I don't hear many people talking about it. I will absolutely watch it and I would go if I got a ticket.

Likewise.

All feels very routine for Dublin.

Snow Garden

99problems1 wrote: »

I find Kilkenny so over rated. He rarely ever kicks the ball. It's called football for a reason.

His trotting across the 45 soloing is not impressive.

Ah no I cannot agree with that; he calms things down, constantly provides an option, dictates the play and especially the point of attack, brings other players into the attack, passes well, comes up with crucial scores, rarely wastes or loses possession etc. Absolutely vital cog in the Dublin machine. Kerry would love it if he did not play.

moghrasa

Snow Garden wrote: »

Ah no I cannot agree with that; he calms things down, constantly provides an option, dictates the play and especially the point of attack, brings other players into the attack, passes well, comes up with crucial scores, rarely wastes or loses possession etc. Absolutely vital cog in the Dublin machine. Kerry would love it if he did not play.

When you look at the games in which Dublin have struggled, its usually because Kilkenny has been tied up (at least for a while). Notable example being Lee Keegan in 2017, or even a few weeks ago where Kilkenny sprung to life at half time. It is essential to keep him quiet.

Bonniedog

moghrasa wrote: »

When you look at the games in which Dublin have struggled, its usually because Kilkenny has been tied up (at least for a while). Notable example being Lee Keegan in 2017, or even a few weeks ago where Kilkenny sprung to life at half time. It is essential to keep him quiet.

Very good point. Mayo's relative success in curbing Dublin has been based on targeting Kilkenny. I don't mean that in a nasty way either. They are in your face, aggressive and smart.

I don't think Kerry have anything like that to be honest.

As for him not being a "footballer,2 hardly deserves a reply to be honest. Tony Hanahoe is generally regarded as a great player and I saw him in matches where he was key to Dublin winning - 1976 and 1977 v Kerry especially - where he played a very similar role to Kilkenny although ball was not held up as much then.

On one famous Dublin rout of a team I think in a league semi final, Hanahoe is alleged not to have touched the ball for about 40 minutes! just dragged the CHB out of the centre. Genius.

Snow Garden

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I had a gawk at the 2016 AI Semi-Final Highlights Dublin v Kerry.

Here is it for youse/ye.

Jayus there was some great scores in it.
I have a feeling that Sunday is going to be just as good with those forward lines.

Was trying to think which six forwards you would pick from the two sides combined if you combined them.
The all-star judges are going to have some headaches.

Super game. Connolly point at the end was majestic.

blanch152

99problems1 wrote: »

I find Kilkenny so over rated. He rarely ever kicks the ball. It's called football for a reason.

His trotting across the 45 soloing is not impressive.

Yes, you could be right, he only had 3 goal assists in the semi-final against Mayo, definitely a sign of an over-rated player.

C__MC

Snow Garden wrote: »

As a Galway neutral - Is it me or is the buildup to this All Ireland very muted? I don't hear many people talking about it. I will absolutely watch it and I would go if I got a ticket.

Calendar has destroyed the new championship

Fan of Netflix

Snow Garden wrote: »

As a Galway neutral - Is it me or is the buildup to this All Ireland very muted? I don't hear many people talking about it. I will absolutely watch it and I would go if I got a ticket.

Never been as lowkey. You wouldn't even know it was on if you were a neutral. I've heard more talk about Electric Picnic, local club championship and the Ireland Switzerland match next week. I suppose that is what happens if the result is a foregone conclusion. It's boring, the buzz and interest is gone. Sad to see.

Tombo2001

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Never been as lowkey. You wouldn't even know it was on if you were a neutral. I've heard more talk about Electric Picnic, local club championship and the Ireland Switzerland match next week. I suppose that is what happens if the result is a foregone conclusion. It's boring, the buzz and interest is gone. Sad to see.

Think this is overkill.

The 5 in a row thing is definitely of interest no matter what way you cut it.

I can remember plenty of crap football finals that I wouldnt have looked forward to with any interest.

This year isnt one of them.

bcklschaps

99problems1 wrote: »

I find Kilkenny so over rated. He rarely ever kicks the ball. It's called football for a reason.

His trotting across the 45 soloing is not impressive.

Get up the garden outta that !!!! what sport are you watching ? posting silly stuff like that

Ciaran Kilkenny is the player who runs the show for Dublin. He's the instigator of most attacks and a the link man in the attacks, and often enough he is the finisher too.

You watch as Kerry double mark him on Sunday to try to disrupt Dublin.

Fortunately I think Dublin have a plan B, where they can use others to play that role as well, if CK is swallowed up.



PS. Hand passing has always been there in football, in the past 20 years or so its become far more widely used ... as teams have cottoned on to the fact that the percentage success rate of a hand pass is much higher than a kick pass.

Utopia Parkway

Snow Garden wrote: »

As a Galway neutral - Is it me or is the buildup to this All Ireland very muted? I don't hear many people talking about it. I will absolutely watch it and I would go if I got a ticket.

No talk about it at all around our place anyway but it's an All-Ireland final. You'll still end up watching it.

99problems1

moghrasa wrote: »

When you look at the games in which Dublin have struggled, its usually because Kilkenny has been tied up (at least for a while). Notable example being Lee Keegan in 2017, or even a few weeks ago where Kilkenny sprung to life at half time. It is essential to keep him quiet.

Show me a game where Dublin have struggled where other players were not tied up.

Fenton was nowhere in the first half v Mayo for example. Callaghan nowhere. Rock nowhere.

I just find Kilkenny one of the results of the style that is killing excitement in the game. He's admired for never losing possession. That shouldn't be encouraged to his extent. If you like that kind of thing go watch basketball. I wonder how many times himself and MDM have actually kicked a ball this year.

99problems1

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, you could be right, he only had 3 goal assists in the semi-final against Mayo, definitely a sign of an over-rated player.

And Bernard Brogan could have got a couple of goals in an all ireland quarter final and yet he's not even in the matchday squad.

blanch152

99problems1 wrote: »

Show me a game where Dublin have struggled where other players were not tied up.

Fenton was nowhere in the first half v Mayo for example. Callaghan nowhere. Rock nowhere.

I just find Kilkenny one of the results of the style that is killing excitement in the game. He's admired for never losing possession. That shouldn't be encouraged to his extent. If you like that kind of thing go watch basketball. I wonder how many times himself and MDM have actually kicked a ball this year.

Complete nonsense. From the Irish Times report of the Mayo semi-final.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/shock-and-awe-as-dublin-lay-waste-to-mayo-1.3983103

"The power and cool, accurate finishing behind Con O’Callaghan’s two goals and the majestic point-taking by Paul Mannion will feature in the highlights reel of this day in the years and decades to come. But Ciaran Kilkenny was the furnace throughout this period. His fingerprints were all over that 10-minute spell, when he seemed to both challenge for every breaking ball and then immediately turn playmaker. He caused havoc.

It was Kilkenny who played the through-ball for O’Callaghan’s first goal, Kilkenny who hit the Cuala man again with a free for his second that was less a kick than a drone missile strike and Kilkenny who drew half the Mayo defence onto him before squaring a hand pass to set up Niall Scully for another goal chance which went whistling over Rob Hennelly’s bar."

99problems1

blanch152 wrote: »

Complete nonsense. From the Irish Times report of the Mayo semi-final.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/shock-and-awe-as-dublin-lay-waste-to-mayo-1.3983103

"The power and cool, accurate finishing behind Con O’Callaghan’s two goals and the majestic point-taking by Paul Mannion will feature in the highlights reel of this day in the years and decades to come. But Ciaran Kilkenny was the furnace throughout this period. His fingerprints were all over that 10-minute spell, when he seemed to both challenge for every breaking ball and then immediately turn playmaker. He caused havoc.

It was Kilkenny who played the through-ball for O’Callaghan’s first goal, Kilkenny who hit the Cuala man again with a free for his second that was less a kick than a drone missile strike and Kilkenny who drew half the Mayo defence onto him before squaring a hand pass to set up Niall Scully for another goal chance which went whistling over Rob Hennelly’s bar."

I suppose Fenton catching clean ball from every kickout was nothing to do with it...and Fenton even got a goal himself!

And if you can pick a piece playing up CK, then I have some too.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/con-ocallaghan-pick-of-the-bunch-in-croke-park-heres-how-dublin-and-mayo-players-rated-in-semi-final-38392352.html

RATING: 7
Brian Fenton: 9

https://www.the42.ie/dublin-v-mayo-player-ratings-4761082-Aug2019/

RATING: 7
Fenton: 8

No one can tell me that if CK wasn't playing and Bernard Brogan was in his place Dublin wouldn't win.

moghrasa

99problems1 wrote: »

Show me a game where Dublin have struggled where other players were not tied up.

Fenton was nowhere in the first half v Mayo for example. Callaghan nowhere. Rock nowhere.

I just find Kilkenny one of the results of the style that is killing excitement in the game. He's admired for never losing possession. That shouldn't be encouraged to his extent. If you like that kind of thing go watch basketball. I wonder how many times himself and MDM have actually kicked a ball this year.

Well, no. If I were even to try and find such a game, it would imply that Dublin are a one man team with Kilkenny being the one man. Of course having Fenton etc tied up has a detrimental effect on their performance. I'm only pointing out that there is a correlation between Kilkenny being well marked and Dublins offence struggling as a symptom.

You could argue Fenton and O'Callaghan were nowhere in that first half partly because they didn't have the supply from Kilkenny. Surely it would be an argument in favour of him being a playmaker to point out that Con and Fenton were quiet in the first half, but once Kilkenny started getting the better of Mayo they magically spring into life and into the game? Food for thought.

What shouldn't be encouraged, ball retention? If that's the case you could always watch the Hurlers thump the ball away at any opportunity :P

99problems1 wrote: »

No one can tell me that if CK wasn't playing and Bernard Brogan was in his place Dublin wouldn't win.

Is anyone really trying to say that? The depth of Dublin's squad means that 1 player being swapped out won't harm them too much. You probably could have stuck Marty Morrissey in for James McCarthy and they'd have still found a way to win. Just because the result wouldn't have changed by taking a player out doesn't mean they're not a good player.

99problems1

moghrasa wrote: »

Well, no. If I were even to try and find such a game, it would imply that Dublin are a one man team with Kilkenny being the one man. Of course having Fenton etc tied up has a detrimental effect on their performance. I'm only pointing out that there is a correlation between Kilkenny being well marked and Dublins offence struggling as a symptom.

You could argue Fenton and O'Callaghan were nowhere in that first half partly because they didn't have the supply from Kilkenny. Surely it would be an argument in favour of him being a playmaker to point out that Con and Fenton were quiet in the first half, but once Kilkenny started getting the better of Mayo they magically spring into life and into the game? Food for thought.

What shouldn't be encouraged, ball retention? If that's the case you could always watch the Hurlers thump the ball away at any opportunity :P

As I have said, it's called football for a reason, not handball.

Nowadays it's all about being an athlete and running and handpassing it. The days of a centre half forward playmaking with clever balls into the corner forward are gone. The likes of Padraig Joyce, Dooher, McDonald, Gooch pulling strings are gone for now.

ToBeFrank123

blanch152 wrote: »

Complete nonsense. From the Irish Times report of the Mayo semi-final.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/shock-and-awe-as-dublin-lay-waste-to-mayo-1.3983103

"The power and cool, accurate finishing behind Con O’Callaghan’s two goals and the majestic point-taking by Paul Mannion will feature in the highlights reel of this day in the years and decades to come. But Ciaran Kilkenny was the furnace throughout this period. His fingerprints were all over that 10-minute spell, when he seemed to both challenge for every breaking ball and then immediately turn playmaker. He caused havoc.

It was Kilkenny who played the through-ball for O’Callaghan’s first goal, Kilkenny who hit the Cuala man again with a free for his second that was less a kick than a drone missile strike and Kilkenny who drew half the Mayo defence onto him before squaring a hand pass to set up Niall Scully for another goal chance which went whistling over Rob Hennelly’s bar."

In fairness Mayo were buggered as they were against Kerry.

I can't think of a worse run of injuries for any team in recent years.

That they reached a semi final was an absolute miracle.

99problems1

BTW I really wish they'd stop showing that point by Connolly in 2017 against Mayo.

He took at least 8 steps before his first hop and then 12 steps to make the kick...

moghrasa

99problems1 wrote: »

As I have said, it's called football for a reason, not handball.

Nowadays it's all about being an athlete and running and handpassing it. The days of a centre half forward playmaking with clever balls into the corner forward are gone. The likes of Padraig Joyce, Dooher, McDonald, Gooch pulling strings are gone for now.

The English have a great game where you're only allowed to kick pass. I think they call it soccer, but I'll double check for you if you want.

Fan of Netflix

99problems1 wrote: »

As I have said, it's called football for a reason, not handball.

Nowadays it's all about being an athlete and running and handpassing it. The days of a centre half forward playmaking with clever balls into the corner forward are gone. The likes of Padraig Joyce, Dooher, McDonald, Gooch pulling strings are gone for now.

Very true. It's like watching some warped version of basketball and rugby league. Becoming a no contact sport where players feign injury at the drop of a hat. Not surprised crowds are down.

99problems1

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Very true. It's like watching some warped version of basketball and rugby league. Becoming a no contact sport where players feign injury at the drop of a hat. Not surprised crowds are down.

That's another thing that's crept into it alright, the playacting.

99problems1

Also have to add, I thought the GAA said they increased tickets by 10 euro because it's too messy with change and all that stuff so why have match programmes at an odd 7 euro???

castletownman

Not a Dublin fan, but I enjoy watching Kilkenny play. His tempo-setting and just general demenour on the ball is extraordinary- a bit like Xavi in that great Barcelona side. Okay, he may not be a "flashy" playmaker in the mould of Ja Fallon or Giles or even today's Seanie O'Shea, but Dublin are clearly a better side without him.

One thing I always have to remind myself is that he went to play Aussie Rules. I wonder how different the landscape would look today if he made it over there?

Bonniedog

99problems1 wrote: »

He's admired for never losing possession. That shouldn't be encouraged to his extent. If you like that kind of thing go watch basketball. r.

So he should be encouraged to lose possession.

You may have hit on something revolutionary there ……….

The rules in basketball by the way not exactly conducive to keeping possession for prolonged periods

Bonniedog

99problems1 wrote: »

That's another thing that's crept into it alright, the playacting.

Dublin don't indulge in it.

bucketybuck

99problems1 wrote: »

That's another thing that's crept into it alright, the playacting.

Crept in? Where have you been the last 20 years? There have been lads clinging onto a defenders arm and throwing themselves to the ground since I was a kid. (And the refs have been buying it since then as well)

As an aside, while I understand how Kilkenny is effective I have to say I don't much like him. How can you admire a player whose first thought in every situation is to turn back and look for a pass behind him? Seriously, I would love to see the stats on how many times a game he checks his run and turns looking to pass it back rather than forward. Possession might be king but it ain't much fun.

Slattsy

Car crash stuff, no wonder this forum has gone to the dogs. It should make for entertaining reading on Sunday, but i for one wont be checking in.

The_Kew_Tour

Looking forward to both games. Minor game will be interesting too. Hopefully weather holds up for both games

99problems1

Bonniedog wrote: »

So he should be encouraged to lose possession.

You may have hit on something revolutionary there ……….

The rules in basketball by the way not exactly conducive to keeping possession for prolonged periods

To his extent. Please read my comments carefully.

I'd say there's rugby players who kick the ball more than Kilkenny.

99problems1

bucketybuck wrote: »

Crept in? Where have you been the last 20 years? There have been lads clinging onto a defenders arm and throwing themselves to the ground since I was a kid. (And the refs have been buying it since then as well)

As an aside, while I understand how Kilkenny is effective I have to say I don't much like him. How can you admire a player whose first thought in every situation is to turn back and look for a pass behind him? Seriously, I would love to see the stats on how many times a game he checks his run and turns looking to pass it back rather than forward. Possession might be king but it ain't much fun.

The likes of McCann falling over....lads holding their face when there's nothing touched on their face.

ToBeFrank123

OK I think we've done Kilkenny enough!

Is there anyone else we can talk about?

99problems1

Bonniedog wrote: »

Dublin don't indulge in it.

True, they do not. Although I thought there was an essence of it of Cooper v Tyrone. Cooper was tackled around the shoulder and he made himself look like he was clothslined, legs went from under him. He got up right away and took the plaudits from commentators but he made it look like it was around the neck.

99problems1

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

OK I think we've done Kilkenny enough!

Is there anyone else we can talk about?

Gatekeeping?

Bonniedog

99problems1 wrote: »

To his extent. Please read my comments carefully.

I'd say there's rugby players who kick the ball more than Kilkenny.

I'd say there are gaelic footballers who perform more rugby tackles than rugby players.

Which is one of the reasons Gavin came up with the bizarre plan not to sportingly boot the ball into a space occupied by the whole of the other team.

Blanket defence has been discredited at a high level because of tactics pioneered by Dublin. One such tactic in which CK is pivotal is to hold up the ball when they all run back like headless chickens and dismantle them with patience.

Quite something to watch in fact.

Fan of Netflix

Kilkenny would make a good Basketball player alright.

Fan of Netflix

Slattsy wrote: »

Car crash stuff, no wonder this forum has gone to the dogs. It should make for entertaining reading on Sunday, but i for one wont be checking in.

Ah sure aren't Shamrock Rovers or some of them other Dublin pub teams playing this evening, you'll have a busy weekend..:D

ToBeFrank123

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Kilkenny would make a good Basketball player alright.

Probably. A lot of the modern gaelic fooballers would make good basketball players. I think a few have played at a high level in basketball.

Bonniedog

Netflix, old chap. I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark here:

You are not a GAA fan. You are a soccer fan obsessed with British teams like "beloved Arsenal" and one of the Glasgow teams.

I would make a further surmise that you dislike Dublin and "the gah" because it is not wendyball.

Am I getting warm?

What county do you support anyway?

(ABD to use you soccer head terminology doesn't count.)

LoughNeagh2017

Are Kerry people actually wasting their money going to this game?

C__MC

If Kerry go down road of a turgid performance like the 1st half v Tyrone, it's done

If we their second half performance showing, they have a chance but Dublin just will have to much

The_Kew_Tour

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

Are Kerry people actually wasting their money going to this game?

I might not be their biggest fan but they have not won what 37 All Irelands for nothing.

They always have a chance.

If any team will win easy it will be the Dubs but I dont think it will be stroll in park and expect Kerry to give them a battle. But that Dublin switch will come and I think it will be enough


But its Kerry

Fan of Netflix

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

Are Kerry people actually wasting their money going to this game?

Probably not seeing as so little of them have attended the Championship so far.

Poor_old_gill

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Probably not seeing as so little of them have attended the Championship so far.

Did you come up with that joke yourself? It's good, original stuff

BonnieSituation

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Did you come up with that joke yourself? It's good, original stuff

I hate it when I agree with you. This week of all weeks.