Films that were once loved that are now not considered great

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I am watching them all this week, Extended Edition of course

Feck it's all sucking me back in

pixelburp

Battle for Middle Earth (and it's sequel) were each one of the best RTS games ever made. It's such a shame the rights change means the games can't be bought anymore...

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

Battle for Middle Earth (and it's sequel) were each one of the best RTS games ever made. It's such a shame the rights change means the games can't be bought anymore...

I have 2 and Rise of the Witch King :)

sabat

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

A strange aside but do we have a thread for that weird occurance of 80s movies having both a soundtrack and a single?
Can we rank them?

Ghostbusters-
Power of love - Huey Lewis and the news for back to the future
Footloose
Top gun
And on and on.

So many 80s films weirdly had a single. Almost all of Them.

It's called "synergy" and the practice was invented and perfected by Don Simpson and Jerry Bruckheimer. 'High Concept' is a must-read for anyone who grew up in the 80s and wants to understand how films became so asinine and poisoned our young minds, plus it has lots of salacious anecdotes. When you were young the idea of a contemporary pop song playing over a montage/love scene/action sequence was so ubiquitous that it seemed that that's just what films were like, and that they had always been that way. In reality it was to both cover up the lack of plot-hence 'high on concept, low on story'-and as a very effective and insidious form of cross-media marketing. Some films they made were so heavily reliant on this that it actually becomes impossible to separate the two as distinct products eg Flashdance.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/High-Concept-Simpson-Hollywood-Culture/dp/0747542627/

The story of how they got Stallone to pull out of Beverly Hills Cop, which the actor wanted to make as a straight action flick, is worth the cover price alone.

jh79

sabat wrote: »

It's called "synergy" and the practice was invented and perfected by Don Simpson and Jerry Bruckheimer. 'High Concept' is a must-read for anyone who grew up in the 80s and wants to understand how films became so asinine and poisoned our young minds, plus it has lots of salacious anecdotes. When you were young the idea of a contemporary pop song playing over a montage/love scene/action sequence was so ubiquitous that it seemed that that's just what films were like, and that they had always been that way. In reality it was to both cover up the lack of plot-hence 'high on concept, low on story'-and as a very effective and insidious form of cross-media marketing. Some films they made were so heavily reliant on this that it actually becomes impossible to separate the two as distinct products eg Flashdance.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/High-Concept-Simpson-Hollywood-Culture/dp/0747542627/

The story of how they got Stallone to pull out of Beverly Hills Cop, which the actor wanted to make as a straight action flick, is worth the cover price alone.

Cobra is his take on it i think. Havn't see it so don't if it is any good.

Dades

sabat wrote: »

It's called "synergy" and the practice was invented and perfected by Don Simpson and Jerry Bruckheimer. 'High Concept' is a must-read for anyone who grew up in the 80s and wants to understand how films became so asinine and poisoned our young minds, plus it has lots of salacious anecdotes.

It's a great read, as are any of William Goldman's books on Hollywood.

I wouldn't be quite so negative on the effect of Simpson & co. The reinvented entertainment, and to quote Maximus, "Are you not entertained?" :P

Enzokk

For me a film that I loved but have fallen out of love with is Saving Private Ryan. Don't get me wrong, when it is on I will watch the first 25 or whatever minutes as that is some of the best film ever. But after that it is just a paint by numbers war movie. I still think it should have won the best picture Oscar that year, for the opening scenes, but the story from there on in has not aged well for me.

CrankyHaus

Enzokk wrote: »

For me a film that I loved but have fallen out of love with is Saving Private Ryan. Don't get me wrong, when it is on I will watch the first 25 or whatever minutes as that is some of the best film ever. But after that it is just a paint by numbers war movie. I still think it should have won the best picture Oscar that year, for the opening scenes, but the story from there on in has not aged well for me.

Felt exactly this rewatching it this year but didn't have the courage to come out to anyone with my shameful secret lest they turn on me.

A lot of the legal thrillers made in the 90s, typically adapted from John Grisham novels, are now considered merely good (at best) in contrast to the great reviews they got at the time. The Client, while decent, had some bits that didn't stand up so well when I rewatched it last year.

Tammy!

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Felt exactly this rewatching it this year but didn't have the courage to come out to anyone with my shameful secret lest they turn on me.

A lot of the legal thrillers made in the 90s, typically adapted from John Grisham novels, are now considered merely good (at best) in contrast to the great reviews they got at the time. The Client, while decent, had some bits that didn't stand up so well when I rewatched it last year.

The Client kind of reminds of films like the The Net. They always seemed to be on and you'd watch them but they weren't great films. Just ok films.

CrankyHaus

Tammy! wrote: »

The Client kind of reminds of films like the The Net. They always seemed to be on and you'd watch them but they weren't great films. Just ok films.

Yeah 30 Rock taking the mick with the Rural Juror "Based on the novel by Kevin Grisham" was fairly on the nose.

El Duda

Primal Fear

The ending just doesn't have the impact anymore. That kind of twist has been done to death now. What were once subtle hints are now glaringly large telegraph poles.

The Late Late Show

One type of film once loved but now more or less despised are all those return to Vietnam to rescue POWs such as Missing in Action and other variants of this such as Delta Force. They usually starred the wooden Chuck Norris and were usually made by Cannon or Golan Globus. The first 2 Rambo sequels entered into the same territory and were better made variants of the same theme. In all these, communists (often Russian advisors in Vietnam) were portrayed as barbaric savages. Sometimes, the action switched to the Middle East (Delta Force, were Palestinians replace commies as the 'bad guys') or Afghanistan (Rambo 3 against, of course, the Russians!).

These films were very much of their times and their popularity was brief. In the last years of the cold war in the 1980s, they thrived. Of course, they were 100% American propaganda and sold themselves to a world that largely fell for the argument 'American good, Russia/Communism bad'. But with the making of more mature Vietnam war films like Full Metal Jacket, Platoon and the like, the appetite for Norris' films and the like was gone. Needless to say, things like the Iraq war and the state of America's government from 9th April 2018 to date have not helped these films to be fondly remembered either, especially Chuck Norris' ones as Norris remains an unapologetic supporter of the John Bolton regime.

I remember an uncle of mine back then used to love watching Chuck Norris all the time and couldn't get enough of his films and similar ones. Looking back on it today, he said that he would not appreciate them now but at the time people just watched them for the action and ignored the biased messages in them or the lack of proper acting and storylines in them.

sabat

I remember the old VHS of Rambo 3 used to have a full screen tribute at the end before the credits saying "dedicated to the brave mujahideen of Afghanistan." Seems to have vanished now for some reason...

The Late Late Show

sabat wrote: »

I remember the old VHS of Rambo 3 used to have a full screen tribute at the end before the credits saying "dedicated to the brave mujahideen of Afghanistan." Seems to have vanished now for some reason...

I remember this and then a later one 'Dedicated to the gallant people of Afghanistan'.

PsychoPete

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Police Academy movies haven't aged well.

vladmydad

The Late Late Show wrote: »

One type of film once loved but now more or less despised are all those return to Vietnam to rescue POWs such as Missing in Action and other variants of this such as Delta Force. They usually starred the wooden Chuck Norris and were usually made by Cannon or Golan Globus. The first 2 Rambo sequels entered into the same territory and were better made variants of the same theme. In all these, communists (often Russian advisors in Vietnam) were portrayed as barbaric savages. Sometimes, the action switched to the Middle East (Delta Force, were Palestinians replace commies as the 'bad guys') or Afghanistan (Rambo 3 against, of course, the Russians!).

These films were very much of their times and their popularity was brief. In the last years of the cold war in the 1980s, they thrived. Of course, they were 100% American propaganda and sold themselves to a world that largely fell for the argument 'American good, Russia/Communism bad'. But with the making of more mature Vietnam war films like Full Metal Jacket, Platoon and the like, the appetite for Norris' films and the like was gone. Needless to say, things like the Iraq war and the state of America's government from 9th April 2018 to date have not helped these films to be fondly remembered either, especially Chuck Norris' ones as Norris remains an unapologetic supporter of the John Bolton regime.

I remember an uncle of mine back then used to love watching Chuck Norris all the time and couldn't get enough of his films and similar ones. Looking back on it today, he said that he would not appreciate them now but at the time people just watched them for the action and ignored the biased messages in them or the lack of proper acting and storylines in them.

But the Russians and communists were bad

Heckler

I think what SPR did was to show a more realistic side to war. Apart form the opening scene, Mellishs' fight with the german and stabbing was brutal. Upham standing aside on the stairs despite having a rifle. Lot of cliches of course too but it set a bar. Made way for BoB, Black Hawk Down, Hurt Locker, Lone Survivor etc.

Loads of horrific foreign war films too but I think for a western audience these were a bit of an eye opener.

Ipso

The Late Late Show wrote: »

sabat wrote: »

I remember the old VHS of Rambo 3 used to have a full screen tribute at the end before the credits saying "dedicated to the brave mujahideen of Afghanistan." Seems to have vanished now for some reason...

I remember this and then a later one 'Dedicated to the gallant people of Afghanistan'.

Not all afghanis were in the taliban, unless that’s what you think.

California Dreamer

iamtony wrote: »

The van damm films (not movies) are disappointing to rewatch these days. Probably weren't great in the day but as a child watching kickboxer and the likes it was amazing stuff that got you roundhousing your brother afterwards.

Don't agree the commitments hasn't held up it's proper nostalgia and the music is great. Would watch anytime it's on.

One of those actors that was in a lot of those military/martial arts movies was Michael Dudikoff. Horrendous viewing now. You can probably add the Iron Eagle movies into that bunch too.

Technocentral

American Beauty absoloutely dire.

E mac

Behind Eneny Lines Is hard to stomach now with all its pro American tosh.

CrankyHaus

The Late Late Show wrote: »

One type of film once loved but now more or less despised are all those return to Vietnam to rescue POWs such as Missing in Action and other variants of this such as Delta Force. They usually starred the wooden Chuck Norris and were usually made by Cannon or Golan Globus. The first 2 Rambo sequels entered into the same territory and were better made variants of the same theme. In all these, communists (often Russian advisors in Vietnam) were portrayed as barbaric savages. Sometimes, the action switched to the Middle East (Delta Force, were Palestinians replace commies as the 'bad guys') or Afghanistan (Rambo 3 against, of course, the Russians!).

These films were very much of their times and their popularity was brief. In the last years of the cold war in the 1980s, they thrived. Of course, they were 100% American propaganda and sold themselves to a world that largely fell for the argument 'American good, Russia/Communism bad'. But with the making of more mature Vietnam war films like Full Metal Jacket, Platoon and the like, the appetite for Norris' films and the like was gone. Needless to say, things like the Iraq war and the state of America's government from 9th April 2018 to date have not helped these films to be fondly remembered either, especially Chuck Norris' ones as Norris remains an unapologetic supporter of the John Bolton regime.

I remember an uncle of mine back then used to love watching Chuck Norris all the time and couldn't get enough of his films and similar ones. Looking back on it today, he said that he would not appreciate them now but at the time people just watched them for the action and ignored the biased messages in them or the lack of proper acting and storylines in them.

They still make those films - just not in America.



Check out the current Chinese actioners like Operation Mekong and it's like a mirror image - with China Stronk stepping in for Murica. An elite team of Chinese police special forces gallivant around South East Asian countries on a manhunt after 13 Chinese sailors are murdered in the Golden Triangle. This is basically a revenge fantasy based on the real-life 2011 Mekong River Massacre.



The evil narco-terrorists are of course masterminded by an obese Indian man who speaks English in all of his scenes. Having Chinese forces blow the bejesus out of other countries shopping malls and downtowns is thinly legitimised with some nonsense about a regional policing task-force, that of course China takes the lead in for the good of the smaller countries. Basically all of the elements of current Chinese imperialism are there, as well as plenty of cheesy 80s staples. The Thai President threatened to ban the film, which topped the box office in China.

PsychoPete

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I am watching them all this week, Extended Edition of course

I watched all 3 back to back last week because they are still great movies and also I've no life

The Late Late Show

vladmydad wrote: »

But the Russians and communists were bad

There were of course a lot of bad Russians (both communist and capitalist ranging from Czars to Stalinists) and bad communists who were not Russian (Ceausescu). But there are and were lots of bad Americans too especially the current regime.

Ipso wrote: »

Not all afghanis were in the taliban, unless that’s what you think.

I am well aware of that. The Mujahedin were fighting against a communist government in Afghanistan. The Taliban were one faction. The other faction developed into the Northern Alliance and later on the currrent Afghan government.

Stone Deaf 4evr

California Dreamer wrote: »

One of those actors that was in a lot of those military/martial arts movies was Michael Dudikoff. Horrendous viewing now. You can probably add the Iron Eagle movies into that bunch too.

Oh my god, I just had a flashback to the local video shop, with wall to wall copies of naff action films, like American Ninja, and Best of the Best.

although to be fair, we were easily pleased back then, some fighting, and a pair of exposed boobs every now and again and we were happy out!

italodisco

Not without my Daughter............

Think my gran must have watched that bloody thing 20 times.

Utter crap

B_ecke_r

Absolute shambles that LOTR has been mentioned in this thread.

Unreal trilogy. Extended edition adds so much too.

B_ecke_r

B_ecke_r wrote: »

Absolute shambles that LOTR has been mentioned in this thread.

Unreal trilogy. Extended edition adds so much too.

Agreed, I have to bite my tongue with the turning of Gimli from a proud, honourable, and able to change character to pretty much angry comic relief along with the badly handled Ents but such things happen in adaption. I also had these grievances from the off, not something I only now consider.

They are and were amazing films in their own right.

MfMan

Enzokk wrote: »

For me a film that I loved but have fallen out of love with is Saving Private Ryan. Don't get me wrong, when it is on I will watch the first 25 or whatever minutes as that is some of the best film ever. But after that it is just a paint by numbers war movie. I still think it should have won the best picture Oscar that year, for the opening scenes, but the story from there on in has not aged well for me.

No need to feel bad about it. I thought that about it at the time. Hanks as usual is dull as dishwater and why would anyone go to so much trouble as to save Matt Damon? Kelly's Heroes is always a good guilty pleasure to counter the upright ickiness of '..Private Ryan'.

Stop moaning ffs

MfMan wrote: »

No need to feel bad about it. I thought that about it at the time. Hanks as usual is dull as dishwater and why would anyone go to so much trouble as to save Matt Damon? Kelly's Heroes is always a good guilty pleasure to counter the upright ickiness of '..Private Ryan'.

Ah man. Kelly’s hero’s. That’s such a brilliant film. Haven’t seen it in too long.

o1s1n

italodisco wrote: »

Not without my Daughter............

Think my gran must have watched that bloody thing 20 times.

Utter crap

i always really liked that film, oddly because I remember watching it with my gran too!

patmahe

Not sure if its been mentioned but Independence Day (original) is an atrocious film, especially considering what a blockbuster it was at the time. America saves the world while the rest of the world sits back and waits for them to do it. So many stereotypes and clichés in that film its amazing.

razorblunt

Alot of "great" that I've seen, I've been more than happy to never revisit, I don't doubt if I rewatched them I'd think less of them.
Requim for a Dream is brilliant but there's no way in shíte I'm ever putting myself through that again.

LOTR is brilliant and I look forward to watching them with my son when he's older but The Hobbit Trilogy was never really called out for what it was at the time, a pure cash grab. The 3 of those are borderline unwatchable in parts.

The Nal

silverharp wrote: »

The lord of the rings movies? great at the time, I doubt you could pay me to watch them now

They were shíte then aswell. A big budget school play with hammy acting.

bkrangle

italodisco wrote: »

Not without my Daughter............

Think my gran must have watched that bloody thing 20 times.

Utter crap

I was forced to watch this in secondary school religion classes ~20 years ago

We were meant to be learning about Islam and I do not think this offered a fair or balanced depiction. Thankfully I don't think teachers would get away with this nowadays.

Dades

patmahe wrote: »

Not sure if its been mentioned but Independence Day (original) is an atrocious film, especially considering what a blockbuster it was at the time. America saves the world while the rest of the world sits back and waits for them to do it. So many stereotypes and clichés in that film its amazing.

ID4 was groundbreaking. It was about spectacle and still is.

razorblunt wrote: »

Alot of "great" that I've seen, I've been more than happy to never revisit, I don't doubt if I rewatched them I'd think less of them.
Requim for a Dream is brilliant but there's no way in shíte I'm ever putting myself through that again.

LOTR is brilliant and I look forward to watching them with my son when he's older but The Hobbit Trilogy was never really called out for what it was at the time, a pure cash grab. The 3 of those are borderline unwatchable in parts.

Yes, and yes.

Requiem is brilliant. But if it's that, or The Spy Who Loved Me showing on ITV2 on a Sunday afternoon I know which one I'm watching.

The Hobbit - big time cashgrab from the studio and self indulgence from Jackson.

Church on Tuesday

Never got the fuss for Casino.

Stop moaning ffs

Dades wrote: »

ID4 was groundbreaking. It was about spectacle and still is.

Yes, and yes.

Requiem is brilliant. But if it's that, or The Spy Who Loved Me showing on ITV2 on a Sunday afternoon I know which one I'm watching.

The Hobbit - big time cashgrab from the studio and self indulgence from Jackson.

To be fair it wasn’t Jackson. He wasn’t even involved intially. The two studios that owned the rights wanted it made as it was guaranteed bank. Jackson only stepped in when Guillermo Del toro had to leave the project.

His hobbit would have been a very different film.

Capt'n Midnight

MfMan wrote: »

No need to feel bad about it. I thought that about it at the time. Hanks as usual is dull as dishwater and why would anyone go to so much trouble as to save Matt Damon?

How much money has been spent attempting to bring Matt Damon back from distant places?

Courage Under Fire (Gulf War 1 helicopter rescue): $300k

Saving Private Ryan (WW2 Europe search party): $100k

Titan AE (Earth evacuation spaceship): $200B

Syriana (Middle East private security return flight): $50k

Green Zone (US Army transport from Middle East): $50k

Elysium (Space station security deployment and damages): $100m

Interstellar (Interstellar spaceship): $500B

The Martian (Mars mission): $200B

Dots1982

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Never got the fuss for Casino.

Ah no. That’s sacreligious.

The Departed I found an uninvolving film. It’s watchable but I never felt much empathy for di caprio’s character. Parts of the script are also in need of a rewrite.

Gangs of NY as well is decent visually and cinematically but not a great execution of the story.

Silver Linings playbook... I always thought it was rubbish but I wonder is the penny dropping for anyone else since that it’s a ****ing annoying movie with annoying characters.

American Hustle is another terrible movie that was well received at the time.

Syriana, I watched recently. Jesus it’s godawful.

Church on Tuesday

Dots1982 wrote: »

Ah no. That’s sacreligious.

The Departed I found an uninvolving film. It’s watchable but I never felt much empathy for di caprio’s character. Parts of the script are also in need of a rewrite.

Gangs of NY as well is decent visually and cinematically but not a great execution of the story.

Silver Linings playbook... I always thought it was rubbish but I wonder is the penny dropping for anyone else since that it’s a ****ing annoying movie with annoying characters.

American Hustle is another terrible movie that was well received at the time.

Syriana, I watched recently. Jesus it’s godawful.

It left me cold TBH, I wanted to like it but nothing there for me. Very hollow.

Dislike Gangs. DDL is great in it though, if a tad OTT. Would not consider it a film that has aged well.

Another film around that time of American Hustle that didn't deserve the hype was Foxcatcher.

Dades

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

To be fair it wasn’t Jackson. He wasn’t even involved intially. The two studios that owned the rights wanted it made as it was guaranteed bank. Jackson only stepped in when Guillermo Del toro had to leave the project.

His hobbit would have been a very different film.

Del Toro could have really done something different. I wouldn't absolve Jackson of blame for the bloated Hobbit trilogy. He didn't have to make them. He must have been given enough licence to at least make them tighter, and not 3 hours each.

But we'll always have his LOTR movies, and for those we should be thankful.

Stop moaning ffs

I loved gangs of New York and read a couple of the books they sourced for the film and eventually got to visit the five points in NYC and it was obviously nothing like depicted in the film except the bones of it. Wide open space with loads of narrowish roads running off. There was nothing there except a small park in the Center that reminded me of the one in Harold’s cross.

Great to go visit it though having read about it and the history

Enzokk

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Another film around that time of American Hustle that didn't deserve the hype was Foxcatcher.

I think Foxcatcher is like La Vie en Rose, the film is made better for the performance of the lead actor in it. I found the acting of Steve Carell, Mark Rufallo and Channing Tatum made the movie Foxcatcher probably better than it is. Just like Marion Cotillard made the movie better than it is with her performance.

Dots1982

Enzokk wrote: »

I think Foxcatcher is like La Vie en Rose, the film is made better for the performance of the lead actor in it. I found the acting of Steve Carell, Mark Rufallo and Channing Tatum made the movie Foxcatcher probably better than it is. Just like Marion Cotillard made the movie better than it is with her performance.

Yeah I liked foxcatcher.

Heckler

Everyone seemed to be in love with The Notebook at the time. Awful ****e .Am I the only one who knew from the start that they were the same couple ?

Was this meant to be a twist ?

vladmydad

The Late Late Show wrote: »

There were of course a lot of bad Russians (both communist and capitalist ranging from Czars to Stalinists) and bad communists who were not Russian (Ceausescu). But there are and were lots of bad Americans too especially the current regime.



I am well aware of that. The Mujahedin were fighting against a communist government in Afghanistan. The Taliban were one faction. The other faction developed into the Northern Alliance and later on the currrent Afghan government.

The current president may be mad as a brush but he’s not evil and definitely not a war monger

vladmydad

o1s1n wrote: »

i always really liked that film, oddly because I remember watching it with my gran too!

Oddly enough I read an article recently that said there’s no way in hell that movie would be made now. Showing the controlling Muslim husband mistreating his western wife etc

uchimata83

Some really strange choices in this thread. Lord of the rings trilogy was an amazing achievement for the time. It's high fantasy and delivers on that with spades in terms of cinematography, sound track and pacing. Special effects hold up too, especially after seeing the Hobbit again recently.

The first film I thought of was Carlito's way, loved it at the time but the inner monologue is awful.

loyatemu

Most of the Best Picture winners for the last 20 years have been fairly mediocre films (there are plenty of bad BP winners from before that, but the recent winners have been particularly weak).