Environmental effects of Farming

yosemitesam1

Say my name wrote: »

Yose you must be going to open a Brazilian shop!


I'd say we all know what the end game is here.
Emmanuel Macron is going to have this discussed at the G7 talks. The G7 are the only ones who'd have a bit of plamas for anything environmental.

We're talking a task force going into to establish the world's first world natural park.
The Brazilian States that were getting the aid from Germany and Norway are open to it as they said they'd deal directly with Germany and Norway instead of going through Bolsonaro. Watch this space.

I don't doubt that there's issues that could be improved upon, but this sensationalism is very dangerous. It does nothing to solve any issues out there and when the media get bored. Who will they turn on next?

Say my name

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

I don't doubt that there's issues that could be improved upon, but this sensationalism is very dangerous. It does nothing to solve any issues out there and when the media get bored. Who will they turn on next?

It's well founded sensationalism.

I don't know. They could turn on those midget people..

We'll see what happens after the G7 talks.
It's more interesting than Boris anyways.

Not you, ..but seeing what those right wing Brazilian nut jobs are coming up with online is entertaining too.

yosemitesam1

https://www.science20.com/robert_walker/nasa_say_the_amazon_is_burning_at_below_average_rates_yet_many_news_stories_say_record_rates-240959

emaherx

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

https://www.science20.com/robert_walker/nasa_say_the_amazon_is_burning_at_below_average_rates_yet_many_news_stories_say_record_rates-240959

Still don't have any issue with practices over there being highlighted, intentional fires of that magnitude are an environmental disaster. You really would wonder about people worrying about burps from grass fed cattle here when you see what's going on in the rest of the world.

We shouldn't be importing products produced in those regions be it meat or soy/grain based products.I would certainly have more respect for our governments speil about reducing our carbon footprint of their plans didn't just involve exporting our carbon footprint to countries with much higher footprints.

Gawddawggonnit

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

https://www.science20.com/robert_walker/nasa_say_the_amazon_is_burning_at_below_average_rates_yet_many_news_stories_say_record_rates-240959

https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/1164870059698937857?s=21

Say my name

Meanwhile Bolsonaro is sending the military to the Amazonian regions to counter any decision which may arise from the G7 talks.

Ireland and France are the only EU countries at present to call for the Mercosur deal to be scrapped over the current destruction.

yosemitesam1

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/1164870059698937857?s=21

Was managing a few Peruvians in aus, good hard working people who had very little starting off in terms of money, education or job opportunities at home. It's not really acceptable to be forcing many of those people into emigrating to do our ****ty jobs when the large scale destruction is almost always driven by big business

Das Reich

Say my name wrote: »

Meanwhile Bolsonaro is sending the military to the Amazonian regions to counter any decision which may arise from the G7 talks.

Ireland and France are the only EU countries at present to call for the Mercosur deal to be scrapped over the current destruction.

Would love if this french provokation would end the occupation and colonialism of French Guiana. We need also to remember that the African countries that are still explored by France such as Mali or Niger, have the worst standard of living of the world. Years ago Burkina Faso tried to liberate from French neocolonialism and president Tankara died. French colonialism is the worst form of colonialism.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Say my name wrote: »

Meanwhile Bolsonaro is sending the military to the Amazonian regions to counter any decision which may arise from the G7 talks.

Ireland and France are the only EU countries at present to call for the Mercosur deal to be scrapped over the current destruction.

He might have to send them to Angola and the Congo first, more fires burning there than Brazil.
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-08-23/more-fires-now-burning-in-angola-congo-than-amazon-maps?__twitter_impression=true

Say my name

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

He might have to send them to Angola and the Congo first, more fires burning there than Brazil.
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-08-23/more-fires-now-burning-in-angola-congo-than-amazon-maps?__twitter_impression=true

We're definitely phucked in this country now!! :eek:

Angolan and Congon beef and butter in SuperValu..
Ah I wouldn't be too worried about them fellas over there. Diseases and guns means they never get their houses in order.
As for Brazil however, it's amazing what can be achieved by a right wing leader promising the Sun, moon and stars for all/the few against a big bad world!!


https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/24/opinions/global-emergency-in-the-amazon-salazar-lopez-allen/index.html

I still naively hope for this world first world natural park of the Amazon (not Brazil) takes hold in the imagination of the illuminati. Wouldn't that be some legacy.

alps

Amazon rainforest not the only one being cleared. Siberian forests, 20% of the worlds trees, are being cleared at an alarming rate. They probably don't have the carbon capturing capability of rain forests, but corruption drives their demise, purely down to demand for timber..

https://russiabusinesstoday.com/agriculture/siberian-forests-shrinking-due-to-strong-china-timber-demand/

gctest50

Then you've this :


https://www.transportenvironment.org/publications/one-corporation-pollute-them-all



The results show that the luxury cruise brands owned by Carnival Corporation & PLC emitted in 2017 in European seas alone 10 times more sulphur dioxide than all of Europe’s 260+ million passenger vehicles

Buford T. Justice XIX

It's hard to know what to believe in this post truth world but the NY Times is claiming the majority of burning is happening on land already being used for agricultural production.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/24/world/americas/amazon-rain-forest-fire-maps.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

emaherx

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

It's hard to know what to believe in this post truth world but the NY Times is claiming the majority of burning is happening on land already being used for agricultural production.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/24/world/americas/amazon-rain-forest-fire-maps.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Dose it matter? Surely in an age where people are counting cow burps for their carbon footprint, fires burning on this scale whether for deforestation or clearing of land is not good.

Buford T. Justice XIX

emaherx wrote: »

Dose it matter? Surely in an age where people are counting cow burps for their carbon footprint, fires burning on this scale whether for deforestation or clearing of land is not good.

I think it does matter, tbh. The media portrays the fires as all being the Amazon being burned to clear ground for agriculture. There's a lot of evidence that that's not the case, that a lot of it is common land management like burning of crop residues that occurs every year and is totally unrelated to any forestry burning for land clearance.

Truth does still matter over an activists narrative, doesn't it?

Say my name

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I think it does matter, tbh. The media portrays the fires as all being the Amazon being burned to clear ground for agriculture. There's a lot of evidence that that's not the case, that a lot of it is common land management like burning of crop residues that occurs every year and is totally unrelated to any forestry burning for land clearance.

Truth does still matter over an activists narrative, doesn't it?

You've no evidence whatsoever Buford.

All you've got is tweets from pro Bolsonaro tweeters, look away from here diversions, and conjecture that the environmental agency in Brazil shouldn't be believed.

If someone was to believe some it was Vegan, NGO's, burning farmland all as a plot to overthrow Bolsonaro..:rolleyes:

Money travels both ways Buford, if you do believe in conspiracies.

Birdnuts

Say my name wrote: »

You've no evidence whatsoever Buford.

All you've got is tweets from pro Bolsonaro tweeters, look away from here diversions, and conjecture that the environmental agency in Brazil shouldn't be believed.

If someone was to believe some it was Vegan, NGO's, burning farmland all as a plot to overthrow Bolsonaro..:rolleyes:

Money travels both ways Buford, if you do believe in conspiracies.

Al Jaazera have reporters on the ground in Rondonia state - the epicentre of deforestation and ranching mafia activity over the last 4 decades. They sent up Drones last week and the footage clearly shows large areas of forest being incinerated. Apparently this state has already lost 70% of its forest cover and the remaining forest fragments have dried out due to lower soil moisture levels, ground water depletion etc. and are becoming more and more susceptible to fires over the last 2 decades:(

Say my name

Birdnuts wrote: »

Al Jaazera have reporters on the ground in Rondonia state - the epicentre of deforestation and ranching mafia activity over the last 4 decades. They sent up Drones last week and the footage clearly shows large areas of forest being incinerated. Apparently this state has already lost 70% of its forest cover and the remaining forest fragments have dried out due to lower soil moisture levels, ground water depletion etc. and are becoming more and more susceptible to fires over the last 2 decades:(

Eliminate the forest, eliminate the transpiration, eliminate the clouds, eliminate the rain.
Change the weather in unknown places throughout the world.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Say my name wrote: »

You've no evidence whatsoever Buford.

All you've got is tweets from pro Bolsonaro tweeters, look away from here diversions, and conjecture that the environmental agency in Brazil shouldn't be believed.

If someone was to believe some it was Vegan, NGO's, burning farmland all as a plot to overthrow Bolsonaro..:rolleyes:

Money travels both ways Buford, if you do believe in conspiracies.

Don't know, Say my name, just have a look at the pic in the tweet and tell me where we should be getting concerned with.
https://twitter.com/GHGGuru/status/1165833222032281600?s=19

Say my name

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Don't know, Say my name, just have a look at the pic in the tweet and tell me where we should be getting concerned with.
https://twitter.com/GHGGuru/status/1165833222032281600?s=19

That's still misdirection from the Amazon problem.

G7 today however announced a few measly million for both the Amazon and central Africa.


There's no solving this problem bar sticking a fence around these areas and keeping humans out or only have humans controlled in numbers and living a prehistoric subsistence existence in those areas. Both controversial ideas.
Orangutans are nearly extinct whatever about all other species living in tropical rainforests throughout the world and still people just watch it happen and do nothing.
All we'll be left with is farmland and concrete, plastic and depression.

Mooooo

Telling people in other countries what to do won't work, particularly developing nations. It's no more than what we would say when the English monarchs or celebrities flying around the world telling everyone else to cut back, fcuk off is there answer most of the time.
Worldwide is globalisation and drive for constant growth has led to most environmental issues. What can be done? By right locally grown produce should be used in agri circles as well as consumer circles. Even if it was regional, within the EU, within North America, Within Asia etc. Will that happen or work unlikely. Any form of protectionism is already seen as regressive, and for poorer countries it is. At the end of the day it's mass consumerism and the waste associated is the biggest problem.
Neighbour has a kid, smart girl about 16, who is starting to get in to the environment etc and was talking to her about it and farming. He sent her up the stairs to the last rooms she was in and all the lights on. The stuff right in front of her didn't come to mind straight away but these global things which she has little influence over. Thought it was a good interaction. If everyone worried about the things within they're control we'd be a lot better off environmentally

Say my name

There still has to be some sort of authoritarian control on these places if they are to survive.
Personal responsibility has a major role but still more is needed.

Take Chernobyl. Major nuclear accident. Humans had to leave. Wildlife got some breathing space and is now flourishing again there.
The exclusion zone between east and west Germany. Again humans moved out. Wildlife moved in.
The nature reserves in Poland. One even established by the Nazis for a hunting park for bison and made up aurochs. Humans were mostly excluded. Nature moved in.

It's all well and good saying personal responsibility but humans don't behave responsibly.
Most of us don't dump rubbish. But you need the authorities to stop the ones that do.

Gawddawggonnit

Mooooo wrote: »

Telling people in other countries what to do won't work, particularly developing nations. It's no more than what we would say when the English monarchs or celebrities flying around the world telling everyone else to cut back, fcuk off is there answer most of the time.
Worldwide is globalisation and drive for constant growth has led to most environmental issues. What can be done? By right locally grown produce should be used in agri circles as well as consumer circles. Even if it was regional, within the EU, within North America, Within Asia etc. Will that happen or work unlikely. Any form of protectionism is already seen as regressive, and for poorer countries it is. At the end of the day it's mass consumerism and the waste associated is the biggest problem.
Neighbour has a kid, smart girl about 16, who is starting to get in to the environment etc and was talking to her about it and farming. He sent her up the stairs to the last rooms she was in and all the lights on. The stuff right in front of her didn't come to mind straight away but these global things which she has little influence over. Thought it was a good interaction. If everyone worried about the things within they're control we'd be a lot better off environmentally

+1. Virtue signaling.

I find it amusing that there’s an element on here that reckon they have the right (gall?) to pontificate to a developing country of over 200mln people on how to run their country. There’s already over 1mln tons of maize, just maize as I’ve no figures for soya, imported from these regions into Ireland so far this year...if the virtue signalers want to actually *do* something proactive, maybe just buy native grains or French maize??

These posters consider that “inhibited” urea is all that’s needed so as not to shyte on their own doorstep (?). LoL!

A good start would be looking after ones own affairs including maybe getting onto a high horse about untreated sewage being discharged into waterways etc etc etc etc....etc etc etc etc!

Say my name

I'll add a few more to that list Dawg.

No pontificating should be done by anyone if they've children, don't engage in carbon drawdown, don't have a tree planting program and don't participate in vehicle sharing or use public transport.

gozunda

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

+1. Virtue signaling. I find it amusing that there’s an element on here that reckon they have the right (gall?) to pontificate to a developing country of over 200mln people on how to run their country. There’s already over 1mln tons of maize, just maize as I’ve no figures for soya, imported from these regions into Ireland so far this year...if the virtue signalers want to actually *do* something proactive, maybe just buy native grains or French maize??These posters consider that “inhibited” urea is all that’s needed so as not to shyte on their own doorstep (?). LoL! A good start would be looking after ones own affairs including maybe getting onto a high horse about untreated sewage being discharged into waterways etc etc etc etc....etc etc etc etc!

Element? Pontificate? Gall?

Why so much effort in trying to disparage other posters instead of putting forward a decent direct counter argument?

If someone's opinion or views have no merit and are simply borne of 'gall ?' then you should have little trouble posting a solid rebuttal making them look like the idiots you imply them to be. Reckon we are all free to reply to the posts we don't agree with - so why not focus on doing that? Surely that's what healthy debate is and not the boot stomping of posters?

Gawddawggonnit

gozunda wrote: »

Element? Pontificate? Gall?

Why so much effort in trying to disparage other posters instead of putting forward a decent direct counter argument?

If someone's opinion or views have no merit and are simply borne of 'gall ?' then you should have little trouble posting a solid rebuttal making them look like the idiots you imply them to be. Reckon we are all free to reply to the posts we don't agree with - so why not focus on doing that? Surely that's what healthy debate is and not the boot stomping of posters?

Reread my post like a good lad.

I made plenty points, irrefutable points...but you didn’t address even one.

Take your own counsel.

gozunda

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Reread my post like a good lad. I made plenty points, irrefutable points...but you didn’t address even one.Take your own counsel.

Ah indeed good lad. I would dearly love to engage in a proper discussion but alas no 'points' made tbh other than a diatribe about elements pontificate gall etc etc. Ah well sure there we are ...

JJayoo

Digestors should become common place in farming communities. Are there any in the Republic at the moment?

Would it fix everything? Of course not, but it would
1) turn a 'harmful' substance, the gas into a useful substance.

2) help farmers to stop slurry tanks overflowing thus polluting waterways

3) bring money into.rural communities.

How about that for a start, and there are probably a thousand practical small changes that could be introduced.

Why not support and develope the will industry. At the moment wool is worthless, it actually costs the farmer to have it shorn and then it is shipped to China. A product which is naturally fire resistant and could be used in a wide variety of industry such as insulation is banged on to a boat and brought to the other side of the world.

How about some incentive to encourage farmers to plant broadleaf trees on their land? At the money there is zero incentive available. It would be a very easy pain free way of adding a few million broadleaf trees. Once again will it fix things ? Of course not but you add it to all the other little things and you begin to see a tangible impact.

JJayoo

https://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/news/473664/state-company-applies-to-build-a-major-waste-gas-production-plant-in-laois.html

"A waste digestion pond that has a capacity for more than 55 million litres and four large waste digestion tanks are included in a big and complex planning application for a gas production facility to be submitted to Laois County Council.....

The company has previously said that the proposed anaerobic digestion plant could see up to 80,000 tonnes of biodegradable, organic materials converted into gas each year. It is claimed that the gas byproduct could heat around 5,500 homes annually."

No reason why you couldn't have a plant like this in each county when you consider that the raw material going into it is food waste/animal waste which is freely available in every county.

Waffletraktor

JJayoo wrote: »

https://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/news/473664/state-company-applies-to-build-a-major-waste-gas-production-plant-in-laois.html

"A waste digestion pond that has a capacity for more than 55 million litres and four large waste digestion tanks are included in a big and complex planning application for a gas production facility to be submitted to Laois County Council.....

The company has previously said that the proposed anaerobic digestion plant could see up to 80,000 tonnes of biodegradable, organic materials converted into gas each year. It is claimed that the gas byproduct could heat around 5,500 homes annually."

No reason why you couldn't have a plant like this in each county when you consider that the raw material going into it is food waste/animal waste which is freely available in every county.

General waste one's are very smelly and require a whole other level of regs to work over animal waste set ups.

alps

Irish Ag Industry has two years to effectively respond to environmental challenges - Gerry Boyle, Teagasc. #ASA19

Say my name

alps wrote: »

Irish Ag Industry has two years to effectively respond to environmental challenges - Gerry Boyle, Teagasc. #ASA19

Is he going to show us the way, instead of an aimless criticism?
I wonder do some in teagasc really know what they're saying or just looking for that cheap soundbite.

Danzy

Say my name wrote: »

Is he going to show us the way, instead of an aimless criticism?
I wonder do some in teagasc really know what they're saying or just looking for that cheap soundbite.

No nonsense, fierce practical, decisive type.

For many it is important to sound like that at the least.

Dakota Dan

Say my name wrote: »

Is he going to show us the way, instead of an aimless criticism?
I wonder do some in teagasc really know what they're saying or just looking for that cheap soundbite.

The usual blame game nonsense, you'd imagine if it were a real threat they'd come up with solutions instead of blaming those nasty humans for everything. Don't worry when they bring a raft of carbon taxes everything will be grand again.

Keepgrowing

gozunda wrote: »

Element? Pontificate? Gall?

Why so much effort in trying to disparage other posters instead of putting forward a decent direct counter argument?

If someone's opinion or views have no merit and are simply borne of 'gall ?' then you should have little trouble posting a solid rebuttal making them look like the idiots you imply them to be. Reckon we are all free to reply to the posts we don't agree with - so why not focus on doing that? Surely that's what healthy debate is and not the boot stomping of posters?

This posters modus operandi is exactly as you’ve stated, every thread is the same. Not worth engaging with as disparaging will follow

alps

https://www.onegreenplanet.org/environment/will-dairy-and-beef-collapse-in-11-years/

Looks like we'll be engineering food. It will be cheaper and we'll save the planet as well.

is_that_so

alps wrote: »

https://www.onegreenplanet.org/environment/will-dairy-and-beef-collapse-in-11-years/

Looks like we'll be engineering food. It will be cheaper and we'll save the planet as well.

That is a pretty dire piece of clickbait and little more than a shout-out for veganism. It doesn't offer any insights of its own and just builds poorly constructed paragraphs around links to a report.

Buford T. Justice XIX

alps wrote: »

https://www.onegreenplanet.org/environment/will-dairy-and-beef-collapse-in-11-years/

Looks like we'll be engineering food. It will be cheaper and we'll save the planet as well.

The pushing and promotion of mass produced, ultra processed foods is a trend we would want to keep an eye on. The replacement of expensive, high quality ingredients with cheaper, inferior ingredients will not have a good outcome.

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/9/8/e029544#

gozunda

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

The pushing and promotion of mass produced, ultra processed foods is a trend we would want to keep an eye on. The replacement of expensive, high quality ingredients with cheaper, inferior ingredients will not have a good outcome.

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/9/8/e029544#

Something akin to the rise of margarine type 'spreads' in the 80 and 90s. Then it was found that hydrogenated fats were very very bad for peoples health and suddenly - real to goodness butter is back with a bang.

Fake food & meat is a fad driven by corporate investors looking for a share of the market. It never ends well ...

Panch18

I see the vegan nutcases are out and getting attention again

As farmers we need to be extremely aware of this and fight it with everything that we’ve got, because this crowd won’t be happy until it is out lawed

Eating meat could be banned 'to help protect planet from eco-cide'
https://www.independent.ie/world-news/eating-meat-could-be-banned-to-help-protect-planet-from-ecocide-38523519.html

jaymla627

Panch18 wrote: »

I see the vegan nutcases are out and getting attention again

As farmers we need to be extremely aware of this and fight it with everything that we’ve got, because this crowd won’t be happy until it is out lawed

Eating meat could be banned 'to help protect planet from eco-cide'
https://www.independent.ie/world-news/eating-meat-could-be-banned-to-help-protect-planet-from-ecocide-38523519.html

Probably on a nice retainer from a vegan group funded by the Saudi government, had to laugh when I seen a article on the dangers of ultra processed fake meat by a well respected university professor, the vegan internet machine accused her of working for the meat industry etc, she had been a practicing vegetarian for 25 odd years, it’s only a matter of time before we see cancer related illnesses from vegan diets, it will be kept out of the main-steam media for as long as possible but with the social media platforms out their now it will get out to the public.
The steam seems to be gone out of the movement since that lancelot report was rubbished as noting more then extreme propaganda, a lot of their media campaigns are been picked apart on release now, and not taken as fact

Buford T. Justice XIX

Panch18 wrote: »

I see the vegan nutcases are out and getting attention again

As farmers we need to be extremely aware of this and fight it with everything that we’ve got, because this crowd won’t be happy until it is out lawed

Eating meat could be banned 'to help protect planet from eco-cide'
https://www.independent.ie/world-news/eating-meat-could-be-banned-to-help-protect-planet-from-ecocide-38523519.html

I laughed this morning reading that, those articles are getting more shrill by the day.

Tbh, I'm not worried by the vegan campaigns. When your belief system is based on a flawed understanding of the science behind growing food, the whole structure built will collapse with a gentle breeze.

I wonder what the general publics attitude to vegans will be once the basic facts underpinning the role of Agriculture and its necessity to soak up the excess carbon of western lifestyles is laid out before them.

Somehow, I doubt it will be pretty.

emaherx

Panch18 wrote: »

I see the vegan nutcases are out and getting attention again

As farmers we need to be extremely aware of this and fight it with everything that we’ve got, because this crowd won’t be happy until it is out lawed

Eating meat could be banned 'to help protect planet from eco-cide'
https://www.independent.ie/world-news/eating-meat-could-be-banned-to-help-protect-planet-from-ecocide-38523519.html

That's a very tabloid headline. Wouldn't be a reader of the newspaper but is the Independent a tabloid paper?

dmakc

emaherx wrote: »

That's a very tabloid headline. Wouldn't be a reader of the newspaper but is the Independent a tabloid paper?

When it wants to be in the era of social media clicks. This article has caused widespread laughter from what reactions I can see anyway

gozunda

emaherx wrote: »

That's a very tabloid headline. Wouldn't be a reader of the newspaper but is the Independent a tabloid paper?

What was even funnier was the Independant requoting that complete load of cow manure and baking an article out of it - whilst at the same time placing the following advert within the article - for the purchase of land in a holiday resort in Brazil and flying there. You couldn't make it up. Well actually they could ...

Panch18

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I laughed this morning reading that, those articles are getting more shrill by the day.

Tbh, I'm not worried by the vegan campaigns. When your belief system is based on a flawed understanding of the science behind growing food, the whole structure built will collapse with a gentle breeze.

I wonder what the general publics attitude to vegans will be once the basic facts underpinning the role of Agriculture and its necessity to soak up the excess carbon of western lifestyles is laid out before them.

Somehow, I doubt it will be pretty.

You would be amazed at how the general city and town person is thinking and how they believe that beef (and Dairy) is so bad for the environment, and even bad for health.

For example I was a bbq a few weeks ago and the topic turned to environment and the statement was made "I had no idea how bad beef was for the environment", to which there was several "I had no idea either" responses. And this is in a rural village in South Tipp - not in inner city London

The problem as i see is it that the vegans have stolen a march on us and have already got there propoganda machine in full voice. In todays world it doesn't matter if you are right or wrong - it matters if you get your opinion out there first.

Panch18

dmakc wrote: »

When it wants to be in the era of social media clicks. This article has caused widespread laughter from what reactions I can see anyway

Personally i think it would be extremely foolish to just laugh it off

If you keep throwing stuff out there - it doesn't matter if its right or wrong - then eventually some of it will stick

Buford T. Justice XIX

Panch18 wrote: »

You would be amazed at how the general city and town person is thinking and how they believe that beef (and Dairy) is so bad for the environment, and even bad for health.

For example I was a bbq a few weeks ago and the topic turned to environment and the statement was made "I had no idea how bad beef was for the environment", to which there was several "I had no idea either" responses. And this is in a rural village in South Tipp - not in inner city London

The problem as i see is it that the vegans have stolen a march on us and have already got there propoganda machine in full voice. In todays world it doesn't matter if you are right or wrong - it matters if you get your opinion out there first.

It will gain a certain traction by being out first but you cannot eliminate science that contravenes your belief system. I'd say a lot of stuff will be coming live in the near future especially with the amount of research coming out that shows the positives of ruminant agriculture, not least the nutrient density and nutrient availability in animal products.

Like it or not, they're going to have to come to terms with the fact that agriculture and ruminant agriculture in particular will have a huge part to play in reducing the carbon levels emitted because of their lifestyle choices.

Banning plastic straws is the least of their worries, tbh.

Waffletraktor

Can you come and unfook the situation one of the potato gangs has left... Yep sure it's been mostly dry for the last week.



Nah, this situation is totally unfookable til march.

Mooooo

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Can you come and unfook the situation one of the potato gangs has left... Yep sure it's been mostly dry for the last week.



Nah, this situation is totally unfookable til march.

Even if the rain stopped, which isn't likely is there anything you could put on to it a low cost that may take or start growing in Feb, just to do something for the soil? Drained a field here and tbh haven't had enough drying days together to do anything with it since the digger left, I had planned on chancing some cover crop into it but surface is well waterlogged now and a a lot less topsoil than that photo