Can pubs ban a person

mazwell

A strange question for you all. My husband is an alcoholic who nearly died recently from an alcohol related issue. He was off the drink for a few months then but hes started drinking again.
I've rang around the pubs/shops in the area and explained what happened and they've agreed not to serve him. Am I allowed to do this?

frag420

You can always ask. I’ve seen it done a few times before but where there’s is a will there is a way...

While I appreciated this is the legal discussion thread I think your problem is a lot bigger than getting him barred from the local pubs!

Hope things improve!

Sharp MZ700

Not sure of the legalities either but what's promised on the phone may not necessarily filter down to the staff/(till).

Best of luck.

JustJoe7240

mazwell wrote: »

A strange question for you all. My husband is an alcoholic who nearly died recently from an alcohol related issue. He was off the drink for a few months then but hes started drinking again.
I've rang around the pubs/shops in the area and explained what happened and they've agreed not to serve him. Am I allowed to do this?

Just like any shop/restaurant, Pubs have the right to refuse service to any patron.

mazwell

Thanks for all the replies genuinely appreciated

Losty Dublin

JustJoe7240 wrote: »

Just like any shop/restaurant, Pubs have the right to refuse service to any patron.

Subject to the specified grounds under our Equality Laws, that is

coylemj

OP, if your husband has access to a car, you need to bear in mind that him getting jar in the local may be the lesser of two evils if the alternative is that he drives to the next town or suburb, gets hammered and then drives home.

You have to think of all of the practicalities, which includes that someone addicted to drink or drugs will go through all sorts of hoops and overcome all obstacles to get a fix.

slipperyox

Most Pubs need alcoholics to make a living. sorry for your predicament OP

slipperyox

slipperyox wrote: »

Most Pubs need alcoholics to make a living. sorry for your predicament OP

Nonsense.

Most pubs need large numbers of people to buy a few drinks, not a few people to buy a large number of drinks.

Having people with an addiction/illness sitting at the counter intoxicated is not conducive to running a pub which will appeal to the young and old who want a social drink. Having worked in pubs for many years while in college, dealing with an alcoholic can be difficult, no pub owner needs them to make a living.

Eric Cartman

Dav010 wrote: »

Nonsense.

Most pubs need large numbers of people to buy a few drinks, not a few people to buy a large number of drinks.

Having people with an addiction/illness sitting at the counter intoxicated is not conducive to running a pub which will appeal to the young and old who want a social drink. Having worked in pubs for many years while in college, dealing with an alcoholic can be difficult, no pub owner needs them to make a living.

the young people and old arent there monday to wednesday night or 10am-6pm monday - friday, thats when (outside of tourists spots) these alcoholics keep the lights on.

Phileas Frog

Dav010 wrote: »

Nonsense.

Most pubs need large numbers of people to buy a few drinks, not a few people to buy a large number of drinks.

When you can't get A, you need B. Which is the point that was bring made

Hoboo

Dav010 wrote: »

Nonsense.

Most pubs need large numbers of people to buy a few drinks, not a few people to buy a large number of drinks.

Having people with an addiction/illness sitting at the counter intoxicated is not conducive to running a pub which will appeal to the young and old who want a social drink. Having worked in pubs for many years while in college, dealing with an alcoholic can be difficult, no pub owner needs them to make a living.

Some pubs rely on alcoholics, that's a fact. I know of 3 within 2 miles of each other that are packed at 11am and empty at 9, 7 days a week. Same 10-15 people in each all spending 50-80 a day. Every day. Their owners need them to make a living, they say it themselves. Without them they'd have 4 or 5 people in the evening for a couple for pints.

Phileas Frog

Phileas Frog wrote: »

When you can't get A, you need B. Which is the point that was bring made

Most alcoholics do not drink in pubs, they drink alone.

Dial Hard

Dav010 wrote: »

Most alcoholics do not drink in pubs, they drink alone.

Plenty do both.

Dial Hard

Dial Hard wrote: »

Plenty do both.

Actually they don’t. Though some will, the majority of people who suffer from alcohol addiction drink in private, usually in their homes. Most alcoholics do not want others to know they have a problem, hence the term “Alcoholics Anonymous” so do not drink in public. There is also the economic consideration in that most alcoholics cannot afford to drink in pubs.

The poster who said pubs need alcoholics to keep the doors open is wrong. No pub would survive if their business was dependent on this alone.

Hoboo

Hoboo wrote: »

Some pubs rely on alcoholics, that's a fact. I know of 3 within 2 miles of each other that are packed at 11am and empty at 9, 7 days a week. Same 10-15 people in each all spending 50-80 a day. Every day. Their owners need them to make a living, they say it themselves. Without them they'd have 4 or 5 people in the evening for a couple for pints.

Some may, but the poster above said most do rely on alcoholics to make a living. This simply is not true.

I find it hard to believe they are spending between €350 and €560 per week. Sorry, they are some rich alcoholics.

Dial Hard

Dav010 wrote: »

Actually they don’t. Though some will, the majority of people who suffer from alcohol addiction drink in private, usually in their homes. Most alcoholics do not want others to know they have a problem, hence the term “Alcoholics Anonymous” so do not drink in public. There is also the economic consideration in that most alcoholics cannot afford to drink in pubs.

The poster who said pubs need alcoholics to keep the doors open is wrong. No pub would survive if their business was dependent on this alone.

My dad is a functioning alcoholic. He goes to the pub every evening for between five and seven pints and then goes home and drinks wine til he passes out, usually two and a bit bottles.

That's the guts of €500 a week. Plenty of alcoholics do have the money. They're not all rattling around at home alone drinking the cheapest, strongest crap they can get their hands on.

28064212

mazwell wrote: »

A strange question for you all. My husband is an alcoholic who nearly died recently from an alcohol related issue. He was off the drink for a few months then but hes started drinking again.
I've rang around the pubs/shops in the area and explained what happened and they've agreed not to serve him. Am I allowed to do this?

Most posts in the thread have ignored the question. OP, the only legal consequence I could think of would be that your husband could technically take a defamation action against you. Unlikely to happen, and you'd have the defense of truth to fall back on, but he could almost certainly get it as far as court. Other than that, I* can't think of anything else you'd be opening yourself up to. Of course, the pubs are under no obligation to follow your request, and I doubt you have any leverage to force them to

* not a lawyer

TheChizler

Could alcoholism now be construed as a disease and they'd be in breach of the equality act to refuse to serve him? Not that it's likely to ever to come to something.

slipperyox

Remember, Pubs are licenced drug dealers.

They can refuse you, if they form an opinion your drunk.

If your over 18 and an adult, why refuse you?

The definition of an alcoholic is open to debate.

So, OP, unfortunately my advice is talk to http://www.al-anon-ireland.org/meetings/

for support.

I drank every day for 14 years, and gave up for 7 years.
I now have a limit of 3 pints, and respect it, the rare times I do have a drink.

nuac

slipperyox wrote: »

Remember, Pubs are licenced drug dealers.

They can refuse you, if they form an opinion your drunk.

If your over 18 and an adult, why refuse you?

The definition of an alcoholic is open to debate.

So, OP, unfortunately my advice is talk to http://www.al-anon-ireland.org/meetings/

for support.

I drank every day for 14 years, and gave up for 7 years.
I now have a limit of 3 pints, and respect it, the rare times I do have a drink.

Congrats. Keep it between the ditches

Thirdfox

And just to add (looking at it from a devil's advocate point of view) - if the pubs/restaurants/off-licenses etc. refuse to serve him and they state the reason why (because his wife said that he's an alcoholic) he might try to pursue a defamation action against the pub if other people are in the vicinity and overhears the conversation.

Ideally - if they privately say they refuse to serve him, or say something along the lines of "unfortunately we're not serving you alcohol because your wife told us you had a drinking issue" - that statement is absolute truth - you as the wife did tell them exactly that.

Good luck with you and your husband

Claw Hammer

Pubs can just say "I think yo have had enough". Pretty much impossible to ague against.

Allinall

Pubs can also refuse service without giving any reason.

You can't force them to serve someone.

coylemj

TheChizler wrote: »

Could alcoholism now be construed as a disease and they'd be in breach of the equality act to refuse to serve him?

If Thyphoid Mary walked into a restaurant and was refused service, would they be in breach of the equality act?

Andrew00

It's the thousands of aul lads sitting around the counter at 11am in the morning drinking porter that keeps some pubs open

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

Most alcoholics do not want others to know they have a problem, hence the term “Alcoholics Anonymous” so do not drink in public.

Alcoholics Anonymous is a support group name, not a term to describe people who drink at home :P

Assetbacked

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Subject to the specified grounds under our Equality Laws, that is

Unfortunately.

Claw Hammer

Allinall wrote: »

Pubs can also refuse service without giving any reason.

You can't force them to serve someone.

If they are refusing to serve people for no reason it is grounds for objection to their licence. They are Public Houses. The clue is in the word Public.

TheChizler

coylemj wrote: »

If Thyphoid Mary walked into a restaurant and was refused service, would they be in breach of the equality act?

Probably not as that's clearly an illness, not a disability?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Alcoholics Anonymous is a support group name, not a term to describe people who drink at home :P

To those needing support, anonymity is as important as the support itself. Most do not want others to know about their alcoholism, hence why most drink at home.

Claw Hammer

Claw Hammer wrote: »

If they are refusing to serve people for no reason it is grounds for objection to their licence. They are Public Houses. The clue is in the word Public.

A quick google seems to show that as long as the licensee does not discriminate against the person on one of the grounds covered in the Equal Status Act, they can refuse service.

One of the legal professionals might give insight into whether it is an offence under the Intoxicating Liquor Act to supply alcohol to a drunken person and to admit a drunken person to a bar. (A 'drunken person' is someone intoxicated to such a degree that they may endanger themselves or other people). Any licence holder that allows this to occur on their premises is liable on summary conviction to a class B fine for a first offence and a class A fine for any subsequent offence.

coylemj

TheChizler wrote: »

Could alcoholism now be construed as a disease and they'd be in breach of the equality act to refuse to serve him?

coylemj wrote: »

If Thyphoid Mary walked into a restaurant and was refused service, would they be in breach of the equality act?

TheChizler wrote: »

Probably not as that's clearly an illness, not a disability?

Are you now claiming that alcoholism is a disability?

TheChizler

coylemj wrote: »

Are you now claiming that alcoholism is a disability? I thought it was a disease.....

I'm not claiming anything. In my post, which you quoted, I asked could it be considered a disability. I've heard of it treated that way outside of Ireland, I'm wondering what the story is here.

GM228

Dav010 wrote: »

One of the legal professionals might give insight into whether it is an offence under the Intoxicating Liquor Act to supply alcohol to a drunken person and to admit a drunken person to a bar. (A 'drunken person' is someone intoxicated to such a degree that they may endanger themselves or other people). Any licence holder that allows this to occur on their premises is liable on summary conviction to a class B fine for a first offence and a class A fine for any subsequent offence.

You answered your own question there, however the definition of "drunken person" is only applicable to the provisions of the Intoxicating Liquor Act 1993.

Under the provisions of the Licensing Act 1872 (which is still in force) it is illegal for the licensee to allow drunkenness (which is not so defined) in their pub or for the punter to be drunk in a pub, yes it is strictly speaking illegal to get drunk in a pub!

Does anyone remember the Thurles hotel case (2008 I think). Two bar men where charged with manslaughter for serving alcohol to a man who was already drunk and subsequently died the next day from alcohol poisoning. They were acquitted (despite a finding of gross negligence in the discharge of their duties), and the deceased family then took a private case against the bar men (which I think was settled out of court). As a result of the case the fines under the 2003 Act were increased to €5000.

Claw Hammer

Dav010 wrote: »

A quick google seems to show that as long as the licensee does not discriminate against the person on one of the grounds covered in the Equal Status Act, they can refuse service.

They can refuse service for a rational reason, not no reason.

Hotblack Desiato

GM228 wrote: »

Does anyone remember the Thurles hotel case (2008 I think). Two bar men where charged with manslaughter for serving alcohol to a man who was already drunk and subsequently died the next day from alcohol poisoning.

Is that the one where the guy (already pretty drunk) asked for something crazy like a whole pint of whiskey, and they served it to him?

slipperyox

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/please-dont-let-grahams-drink-death-be-in-vain-26732301.html