Greta and the aristocrat sail the high seas to save the planet.

dont bother

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Don't be upset. We're all fine. Maybe take some time for yourself.

who's "we" and why are you speaking for others?
all the other little college girls giving out about climate change seem to me to be extremely upset about the whole thing.

you have been the VICTIM of brainwashing.

you can add that to the list of things you've been victimised the next time you're talking to your friends in school over a soy non dairy latte.

KyussB

Also: Children and teengers have a right to political representation as well, especially given that they are not of voting age - so spare me the faux 'concern' about upcoming generations having political representation, as being 'abuse' of those generations - that's a load of bollocks.

If anything, people from upcoming generations should have far more political representation - especially given that they are going to be bearing the brunt of the cost from todays policies, which exacerbate climate change.

SafeSurfer

KyussB wrote: »

You already discussed that with me earlier in the thread. Governments never fund anything 100% through taxes - that's not how government finances work - balanced budgets are incredibly rare.

An unbalanced budget is funded through borrowing. How is borrowing funded? I’ll I’ve you a hint. It begins with T.

gormdubhgorm

KyussB wrote: »

Who gives a toss what hyperbole she's used - it's all generated discussion and awareness, that's a success.

Not really it is only short term noise there is no 'how' is mentioned.
Plus it all seems very hypocritical as it seems to be lead by youngsters from the western world who's lifestyle has benefited from the very industrialisation they decry.

They are basically telling those in underdeveloped nations to stay underdeveloped , we have caused enough damage so stop. You can't so what we did!

KyussB

SafeSurfer wrote: »

An unbalanced budget is funded through borrowing. How is borrowing funded? I’ll I’ve you a hint. It begins with T.

Public Debt is funded indirectly through GDP growth - that's why it is effectively rolled-over forever. The proper course is to maximize GDP/economic-output first, and let Public Debt wax and wane to accomodate that.

Government finances are nothing like personal finances.

KyussB

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Not really it is only short term noise there is no 'how' is mentioned.
Plus it all seems very hypocritical as it seems to be lead by youngsters from the western world who's lifestyle has benefited from the very industrialisation they decry.

They are basically telling those in underdeveloped nations to stay underdeveloped , we have caused enough damage so stop. You can't so what we did!

The Green New Deal. Massive and varied Green infrastructure project in the US, with variations of the same GND policy being pushed throughout the western world.

In my view, the GND doesn't go far enough - but it's a start and shows that it is simply not true, that there are no solutions presented.

The solutions like that, just get decryed as 'Communism' by Libertarian/oil-oligarch think-tank puppets (in this very thread, posters are literally citing Exxon Mobil as an authority).

Sean.3516

KyussB wrote: »

You already discussed that with me earlier in the thread. Governments never fund anything 100% through taxes - that's not how government finances work - balanced budgets are incredibly rare.

You say that as though an unbalanced budget is simply where the govt plucks the money it doesn’t have from thin air.

It simply offloads the burden onto the future which will eventually have to pay for it either through inflation or taxes.

hetuzozaho

dont bother wrote: »

who's "we" and why are you speaking for others?
all the other little college girls giving out about climate change seem to me to be extremely upset about the whole thing.

you have been the VICTIM of brainwashing.

you can add that to the list of things you've been victimised the next time you're talking to your friends in school over a soy non dairy latte.

Ok will do. It's delicious actually. Thanks again.

SafeSurfer

KyussB wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

An unbalanced budget is funded through borrowing. How is borrowing funded? I’ll I’ve you a hint. It begins with T.

Public Debt is funded indirectly through GDP growth - that's why it is effectively rolled-over forever. The proper course is to maximize GDP/economic-output first, and let Public Debt wax and wane to accomodate that.



Government finances are nothing like personal finances.

I’ll ask again. How is the deficit serviced and funded? How is any government borrowing funded?
Is a little honesty too much to ask?

KyussB

Sean.3516 wrote: »

You say that as though in an unbalanced budget is simply where the govt plucks the money it doesn’t have from thin air.

It simply offloads the burden onto the future which will eventually have to pay for it either through inflation or taxes.

All money is plucked from thin air - we live in fiat economies - that's how money creation works.

You don't understand how government finances work, and are treating them like personal finances. Interest rates are presently negative - there is no cost to borrowing.

AudreyHepburn

I find it pathetic and laughable how so many seemingly rational thinking adults who should know better are getting so offended over a young girl with more backbone than all of them out together.

Climate Change is real, it’s happening before our eyes and I commend Greta for having the courage to do what we all should have been doing long before now.

After all if we don’t start making changes and taking seriously the threat we pose to our planet it is Greta’s own the generations after her that will suffer.

KyussB

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I’ll ask again. How is the deficit serviced and funded? How is any government borrowing funded?
Is a little honesty too much to ask?

By rolling over debt, and letting GDP growth minimize Public Debt vs GDP.

dont bother

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I find it pathetic and laughable how so many seemingly rational thinking adults who should know better are getting so offended over a young girl with more backbone than all of them out together.

Climate Change is real, it’s happening before our eyes and I commend Greta for having the courage to do what we all should have been doing long before now.

After all if we don’t start making changes and taking seriously the threat we pose to our planet it is Greta’s own the generations after her that will suffer.

"climate change is real"
why do you believe that so ferociously ?

because you were told so many times by a corrupt world media?
you want to fit in with your peers?

which?

yes nobody is saying it's not real. it is real, it just isnt caused by humans the way they are trying to make you believe it is.

personally, i dont care a bit about it, i just find it amusing to watch this new generation of supposedly educated youngsters getting themselves into a flap about the world ending.

it's harry potter level of fantasy right there.

SafeSurfer

KyussB wrote: »

Sean.3516 wrote: »

You say that as though in an unbalanced budget is simply where the govt plucks the money it doesn’t have from thin air.

It simply offloads the burden onto the future which will eventually have to pay for it either through inflation or taxes.

All money is plucked from thin air - we live in fiat economies - that's how money creation works.

You don't understand how government finances work, and are treating them like personal finances. Interest rates are presently negative - there is no cost to borrowing.

Government borrowing being rolled over doesn’t mean that they don’t have to be serviced and repaid through taxation.

What part of that can you not understand?

dont bother

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Ok will do. It's delicious actually. Thanks again.

you're welcome sweetcheeks

SafeSurfer

KyussB wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I’ll ask again. How is the deficit serviced and funded? How is any government borrowing funded?
Is a little honesty too much to ask?

By rolling over debt, and letting GDP growth minimize Public Debt vs GDP.

I’ll try again. Why does GDP growth increase ability to borrow and service public debt? Has it anything to do with taxation?

AudreyHepburn

dont bother wrote: »

"climate change is real"
why do you believe that so ferociously ?

because you were told so many times by a corrupt world media?
you want to fit in with your peers?

which?

yes nobody is saying it's not real. it is real, it just isnt caused by humans the way they are trying to make you believe it is.

personally, i dont care a bit about it, i just find it amusing to watch this new generation of supposedly educated youngsters getting themselves into a flap about the world ending.

it's harry potter level of fantasy right there.

If not us then what’s causing it? The ice caps aren’t melting of their own accord. Forests aren’t depleting themselves. Thousands of species aren’t on the verge of extinction for no reason.

KyussB

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Government borrowing being rolled over doesn’t mean that they don’t have to be serviced and repaid through taxation.

What part of that can you not understand?

? If a debt is rolled over and paid through reissuing debt, then it is not paid through taxation.

Since we have negative interest rates, we actually generate a profit from rolling over debt like this.

You might then say: "But we have to pay this debt off in the future"

However, our GDP will have grown enormously by the time the debt matures - reducing Public Debt vs GDP - and we can just roll the debt over again.

This is why you have to think about government finances, in a completely different way to personal finances.

I've made enough posts in a short period of time in the thread, so I don't want to discuss that further.

Micky 32

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So would you be all for opening coal mines if we had large deposits of coal here if it meant creating jobs?

Bit of an exaggeration there, we opening up coal mines in Lanesborough? I'm confident if you were one of the workers there you wouldn't have posted this.

SafeSurfer

KyussB wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Government borrowing being rolled over doesn’t mean that they don’t have to be serviced and repaid through taxation.

What part of that can you not understand?

? If a debt is rolled over and paid through reissuing debt, then it is not paid through taxation.

Since we have negative interest rates, we actually generate a profit from rolling over debt like this.

You might then say: "But we have to pay this debt off in the future"

However, our GDP will have grown enormously by the time the debt matures - reducing Public Debt vs GDP - and we can just roll the debt over again.

This is why you have to think about government finances, in a completely different way to personal finances.

I've made enough posts in a short period of time in the thread, so I don't want to discuss that further.

You don’t want to discuss it further? I’m not surprised.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/budget-2018-where-does-all-your-tax-money-go-1.3245485?mode=amp

Micky 32

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

If not us then what’s causing it? The ice caps aren’t melting of their own accord. Forests aren’t depleting themselves. Thousands of species aren’t on the verge of extinction for no reason.

Just keep in mind the sun has got hotter in the last 100 years, just keep that in mind. But no one wants to discuss that.

gormdubhgorm

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I find it pathetic and laughable how so many seemingly rational thinking adults who should know better are getting so offended over a young girl with more backbone than all of them out together.

Climate Change is real, it’s happening before our eyes and I commend Greta for having the courage to do what we all should have been doing long before now.

After all if we don’t start making changes and taking seriously the threat we pose to our planet it is Greta’s own the generations after her that will suffer.

That is just like one of her speeches high on generalities and rhetoric but no solutions.
It is nothing to do with the fact that she is young or a young girl for me.
It is just the fact that she makes noise and makes no real solutions.
Similar to Bono about Africa.
It sounds silly.

Might as well be a boardsie with a mike making general statements like myself or yourself. Sure aren't we great?
I always find those activists irritating regardless of thier cause.

AudreyHepburn

Micky 32 wrote: »

Just keep in mind the sun has got hotter in the last 100 years, just keep that in mind. But no one wants to discuss that.

What happened to the Ozone Layer that’s supposed to protect us from that?

Stop hiding your head in the sand.

KyussB

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You don’t want to discuss it further? I’m not surprised.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/budget-2018-where-does-all-your-tax-money-go-1.3245485?mode=amp

We literally get paid for issuing debt, due to negative interest rates - and debt paid off through rolling it over, isn't paid through taxes.

Furthermore, maximizing the GDP portion of Public Debt vs GDP keeps the debt sustainable.

What more is there you need to know? It's perfectly manageable to sustain funding through Public Debt permanently - the main constraint is maximizing GDP throughout the economic cycle, that is what keeps it sustainable.

SafeSurfer

KyussB wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You don’t want to discuss it further? I’m not surprised.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/budget-2018-where-does-all-your-tax-money-go-1.3245485?mode=amp

We literally get paid for issuing debt, due to negative interest rates - and debt paid off through rolling it over, isn't paid through taxes.

Furthermore, maximizing the GDP portion of Public Debt vs GDP keeps the debt sustainable.

What more is there you need to know? It's perfectly manageable to sustain funding through Public Debt permanently - the main constraint is maximizing GDP throughout the economic cycle, that is what keeps it sustainable.

I agree that it can be sustainable to fund public debt permanently but you are ignoring the fact that this is only sustainable if the debt can be serviced through taxation.

Do you understand this?

Micky 32

Tell me how wrote: »

It's because he cares about the long term livelihoods of society that he is saying this is a step back.

If you want to adopt the position of 'I'm only concerned about what affects me right now' then that's your prerogative, but you should own it.

I'm sure if Mr Ryan came up to you and said " you know your job isn't great for the environment would you give it up for me?" I know what you'd tell him .....

is_that_so

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

What happened to the Ozone Layer that’s supposed to protect us from that?

Stop hiding your head in the sand.

It's at its smallest in 30 years I believe.

Faugheen

Still don’t understand how a 16 year old child who wants to make the world a better place gets so much guff for it.

KyussB

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I agree that it can be sustainable to fund public debt permanently but you are ignoring the fact that this is only sustainable if the debt can be serviced through taxation.

Do you understand this?

The debt is serviced by rolling it over. That doesn't require service through taxation.

We actually get paid to issue debt right now - due to negative interest rates - that means we actually make a profit by issuing debt and rolling over existing debt.

Time matters. You're treating all debt as if it's a tax burden - but that's not true - because time passes, GDP grows, and debts are rolled over - forever, effectively. You can't treat debt as if it is issued and paid off on the same day. You have to look at the passage of time, and how inflation and the growth of GDP and debt-rollovers affects that. It's actually very unusual for debt to be paid down instead of rolled over.

splinter65

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I find it pathetic and laughable how so many seemingly rational thinking adults who should know better are getting so offended over a young girl with more backbone than all of them out together.

Climate Change is real, it’s happening before our eyes and I commend Greta for having the courage to do what we all should have been doing long before now.

After all if we don’t start making changes and taking seriously the threat we pose to our planet it is Greta’s own the generations after her that will suffer.

How is she displaying backbone and courage? I don’t see it at all I’m afraid. It’s not as if she’s under any threat. It’s clear she’s merely parroting well rehearsed lines written by someone else, the same as any other child actors.
Where is the bravery?!?