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Greta and the aristocrat sail the high seas to save the planet.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Greta ain't no scientist although in her fcuked up brain she probably thinks she knows better than the scientists

    Good man.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,315 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    lola85 wrote: »
    It’s excellent.

    Put her back in her box.

    F*cking sad, it really is. I'm so glad she gets under all you fella's skin though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    F*cking sad, it really is. I'm so glad she gets under all you fella's skin though.

    If they mean it, it's sad. If they don't mean it, it's even sadder.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭Stevieluvsye


    Good man.

    FTR My comment wasn't based on her disease just on the general ****e she comes out with everytime she opens her mouth


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭Doctors room ghost


    Not with that attitude. There is absolutely no reason why cycling infrastructure in Galway, Limerick, Dublin should not aim to mimic what has been done in dutch cities. None of those cities could be considered mountainous and even Cork wouldn't be beyond feasible.

    This was Amsterdam in the 1970's versus more recently. It's the same street.

    Amsterdam-two.jpg



    There isn’t one fcuker in Galway using the coca cola bikes.another waste of money.all shapes for the first month and nobody using them since.a small novelty for the eco sheep that wasn’t long going off them.
    They should land them out to Galway metal and crush them.they are an eyesore rotting in their expensive stands.
    The novelty of cycling around in the p1ssing rain wasn’t long grounding a few of the dreamers


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    FTR My comment wasn't based on her disease just on the general ****e she comes out with everytime she opens her mouth

    Sure. Aspergers and OCD aren't diseases.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,315 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    There isn’t one fcuker in Galway using the coca cola bikes.another waste of money.all shapes for the first month and nobody using them since.a small novelty for the eco sheep that wasn’t long going off them.
    They should land them out to Galway metal and crush them.they are an eyesore rotting in their expensive stands.
    The novelty of cycling around in the p1ssing rain wasn’t long grounding a few of the dreamers

    Last time i was in galway it was one giant traffic jam. An absolute nightmare. Are you ok with that


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    KyussB wrote: »
    . . .
    You only have ideological objections to this - you don't have any actual arguments against it.





    The Manhattan projects goal was to produce the atom bomb which destroyed the lives of thousands of people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the United States government remains the only state to use nuclear weapons (including depleted uranium) against civilians. Nuclear weapons and their expanding programs worldwide are still a man made problem with an obvious man-made solution that is dispose of them. If governments won't get rid of nuclear weapons which is something fully within their control, they what makes you so sure they are going to do anything about something about ephemeral weather patterns.


    Massive government funding means either massive taxation, borrowing inflation and rationing or a combination of all of the above. They were so short of materials for the war effort that consumers were restricted for the duration of the war and long afterwards in some countries. The consequence of that was the creation of the military industrial complex and continuing promulgation of wars which destroy lives and property.





    Are you really that naive that you think launching a war on carbon production is not going to kill lots of people? Why not admit you want to deny the use of fossil fuels to poor people to lift them of poverty? Why don't you live the life of the Amish? The reality is that carbon emissions growth and economic growth track together and that has bought about your very high standard of living, you know that which given you access to clean water, literacy has increased, and increased life expectancy. Why would you deny that opportunity to others less fortunate than you? It's easy to sit before a group of wealthy politicians and say "how dare you" for not implementing one's desired climate policy. I imagine it's slightly harder to tell a south east Asian textile worker that she's had it too good, and we need to put the brakes on economic growth. For her own good, of course. There is more to the world outside the votes of self-hating first world urbanites.



    There is a reason the green slime is pouring money into the NGOs supporting these green campaigns, they see an opportunity to get rich via wealth redistribution on taxpayer funded subsidies.


    The Manufacturing of Greta Thunberg – for Consent: They Mean Business [Volume II, Act IV]




    The video above features Achim Steiner promoting the Green New Deal in 2009. Back then, it was promoted as a solution to save the economy; now, it is promoted as a solution to save the climate. In both instances, its sole purpose has been to inject growth into a global economic system on the verge of collapse. The main difference today is that the Green New Deal encompasses the assigning of monetary value to nature. This will transform the global financial system itself, bringing into existence a new financial accounting system which has taken well over a decade to refine. The Green New Deal is essentially a Trojan horse for the ultimate corporate coup of the commons.


    source

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭Doctors room ghost


    Last time i was in galway it was one giant traffic jam. An absolute nightmare. Are you ok with that



    No and I’ve said this several times.
    Every set of lights in Galway should also be landed out to Galway metal along with the Coca Cola Bike’s and crush the lot.
    There wasn’t half the hold ups in Galway with roundabouts when traffic was let flow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭Doctors room ghost


    If half of the bluffers waffling on about climate change went outside and went picking some rubbish maybe things would change for the better.
    It’s without doubt the most useless generation ever produced this one.
    Technically advanced but seriously work shy.
    Laughable all those people gathered for a protest.half them getting lifts to Dublin in the latest diesel.
    Would be more in their line to stay home and pick some rubbish out of the ditches or beaches.
    It’s not like the council are going to do it.same crowd wouldn’t work in a fit


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Okay everybody. Pick up rubbish and stop climate change. Sorted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    . . .same crowd wouldn’t work in a fit


    “Everybody wants to save the Earth; nobody wants to help Mom do the dishes.” ― P.J. O'Rourke, All the Trouble in the World

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭optogirl


    FTR My comment wasn't based on her disease just on the general ****e she comes out with everytime she opens her mouth

    Disease? :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    gozunda wrote: »
    Oh yes there is :pac: And not just me saying that...

    The light in the distance isn't a beacon to mark your way - it's a juggernaut with no driver heading straight at you ...

    https://www.economist.com/democracy-in-america/2019/02/11/the-problem-with-the-green-new-deal

    Excellent article from which, a quote:

    Unless governments can come up with policies to slow global warming, climate change will make life extremely unpleasant for mankind. To prevent a 1.5°C increase temperature relative to pre-industrial times, greenhouse-gas emissions would probably need to be halved by 2030 and brought to zero by 2050.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Excellent article from which, a quote:

    Unless governments can come up with policies to slow global warming, climate change will make life extremely unpleasant for mankind. To prevent a 1.5°C increase temperature relative to pre-industrial times, greenhouse-gas emissions would probably need to be halved by 2030 and brought to zero by 2050.

    Well exactly. You do not have to be accused of being a "denier" to point out much of what is being pushed as the 'solution' is actually bollux.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,523 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    KyussB wrote: »
    As I said: No actual arguments against it.

    Is there anything to argue about? At present it is just a promise of rainbows and unicorns for everybody with no indication of how this could be achieved.

    End the fossil fuel industry and all ancillary industries, transport, aviation, plastics etc.

    Employ all those replaced by the revolution

    Retrofit all buildings and transport

    Oh and end economic and racial inequality.

    Pie in the sky.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    The Manhattan projects goal was to produce the atom bomb which destroyed the lives of thousands of people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki...*snip*

    Massive government funding means either massive taxation, borrowing inflation and rationing or a combination of all of the above. *snip*

    Are you really that naive that you think launching a war on carbon production is not going to kill lots of people? *snip*

    There is a reason the green slime is pouring money into the NGOs supporting these green campaigns, they see an opportunity to get rich via wealth redistribution on taxpayer funded subsidies.
    Why do you shite random YouTube videos into every post, that nobody watches?

    If a video makes an argument you want to put forward - then why don't you just put it in your own words, instead of wasting peoples time?

    Manhattan Project TLDR: In terms of an R&D project, amazing success. None of the other ramblings around it are relevant here, so I'll ignore them.

    Government funding TLDR: Funding the GND is not a problem - Libertarians are always scaremongering about inflation - going to extremes like rationing etc. is not needed.

    'War' on Carbon Emissions TLDR: Economic growth is not inextricably tied to carbon emissions - there's enough energy hitting the planet at every moment to continue with economic growth for centuries, by developing the right tech. The idea of a GND killing poor people is bollocks - not having a GND however, will kill poor people, as the changing climate is going to decimate crop production in lower latitudes, i.e. predominantly where poor people live.

    'Green Slime' TLDR: What's more likely - a tiny green energy industry with very little influence, being able to mount a giant conspiracy which captures politics and business, usurping the oil industry - or the fossil fuel industry with demonstrated political/business influence/clout going back well beyond a century, which already has control over politics/business and much of our economies, is trying to crush an environmental movement that will end their power?

    The one thing that is worth noting on that last point, is that there will certainly be attempts to hijack the Green New Deal, to redirect it away from government-led efforts for R&D and arresting carbon emissions - and into NeoLiberal-style solutions to arresting carbon emissions, that are predominantly market-based and doomed to fail. The latter is not what the GND envisaged by AOC/Sanders, and environmentalists in general, is about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    gozunda wrote: »
    Well exactly. You do not have to be accused of being a "denier" to point out much of what is being pushed as the 'solution' is actually bollux.

    It's an opinion piece. So it's opinion. I agree with the piece I quoted. I also agree with this:

    "...a carbon tax, subsidies for nuclear-power generation, an increase in research funding for carbon-capture and carbon-storage, to name a few."

    To "name a few" implies other remedies and there are much more required. But this opinion piece is a wonderful example of why nothing of importance will happen. The writer attacks the Green Deal. And the Green Deal people will attack people like the writer. And Donald will attack Greta and Greta will attack Trump. And useful idiots will pretend that climate change doesn't exist. So no consensus will be achieved. Which is why debates such as this thread are just ways of passing time pleasantly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 caranown


    she is a brave one, I am so proud of her


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    It's an opinion piece. So it's opinion. I agree with the piece I quoted. I also agree with this:
    "...a carbon tax, subsidies for nuclear-power generation, an increase in research funding for carbon-capture and carbon-storage, to name a few."To "name a few" implies other remedies and there are much more required. But this opinion piece is a wonderful example of why nothing of importance will happen. The writer attacks the Green Deal. And the Green Deal people will attack people like the writer. And Donald will attack Greta and Greta will attack Trump. And useful idiots will pretend that climate change doesn't exist. So no consensus will be achieved. Which is why debates such as this thread are just ways of passing time pleasantly.

    And yet you like it ;)
    Excellent article...
    Changed your mind?

    The OP opined there were no arguments against the new glorious green new deal. I simply pointed out yes there were plenty of arguments already voiced about the green new deal Capiche?

    Tbh I see very little denying going on in those articles. The most common mention of such denislism is that which is thrown at those brave enough to point out the puerile use of rhetoric and pie in the sky thinking.

    But hey if anyone does not wish to engage in the discussion further - there's no skin lost evidently ...


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    KyussB wrote: »
    Why do you shite random YouTube videos into every post, that nobody watches?If a video makes an argument you want to put forward - then why don't you just put it in your own words, instead of wasting peoples time?Manhattan Project TLDR: In terms of an R&D project, amazing success. None of the other ramblings around it are relevant here, so I'll ignore them.
    Government funding TLDR: Funding the GND is not a problem - Libertarians are always scaremongering about inflation - going to extremes like rationing etc. is not needed.
    'War' on Carbon Emissions TLDR: Economic growth is not inextricably tied to carbon emissions - there's enough energy hitting the planet at every moment to continue with economic growth for centuries, by developing the right tech. The idea of a GND killing poor people is bollocks - not having a GND however, will kill poor people, as the changing climate is going to decimate crop production in lower latitudes, i.e. predominantly where poor people live.'Green Slime' TLDR: What's more likely - a tiny green energy industry with very little influence, being able to mount a giant conspiracy which captures politics and business, usurping the oil industry - or the fossil fuel industry with demonstrated political/business influence/clout going back well beyond a century, which already has control over politics/business and much of our economies, is trying to crush an environmental movement that will end their power?The one thing that is worth noting on that last point, is that there will certainly be attempts to hijack the Green New Deal, to redirect it away from government-led efforts for R&D and arresting carbon emissions - and into NeoLiberal-style solutions to arresting carbon emissions, that are predominantly market-based and doomed to fail. The latter is not what the GND envisaged by AOC/Sanders, and environmentalists in general, is about.

    TLDR ...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Is there anything to argue about? At present it is just a promise of rainbows and unicorns for everybody with no indication of how this could be achieved.

    End the fossil fuel industry and all ancillary industries, transport, aviation, plastics etc.

    Employ all those replaced by the revolution

    Retrofit all buildings and transport

    Oh and end economic and racial inequality.

    Pie in the sky.

    When computerisation became the norm hundreds of thousands lost jobs. That was progress, tough s***, move on. Meant more profits you see.
    Now we've to worry about oil riggers losing work so f*** the environment?
    It's all down to money. It shouldn't be, but it is. The US is owned by corporations and so too are many nations beholden to them, so it's not going to be easy, if it happens at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    When computerisation became the norm hundreds of thousands lost jobs. That was progress, tough s***, move on.Meant more profits you see.
    Now we've to worry about oil riggers losing work so f*** the environment?
    It's all down to money. It shouldn't be, but it is. The US is owned by corporations and so too are many nations beholden to them, so it's not going to be easy, if it happens at all.

    but computers increased productivity, lowered costs and had a massive environmental saving. All of humanity benefitted from that except those who lost their jobs, but thankfully could retrain as something better. We currently don't have anything better and cheaper than oil, aviation etc... when somebody comes up with something truly better then I'm sure we'd all just gladly make the switch, like the computer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    but computers increased productivity, lowered costs and had a massive environmental saving. All of humanity benefitted from that except those who lost their jobs, but thankfully could retrain as something better. We currently don't have anything better and cheaper than oil, aviation etc... when somebody comes up with something truly better then I'm sure we'd all just gladly make the switch, like the computer.

    That's my point Eric.
    The cry of 'Cheaper', is the problem. What will we do when the oil runs out, give up, go live in a cave? I doubt it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    gozunda wrote: »
    The list of arguments identifiable in those articles are, paraphrasing: "Funding the GND means increasing taxes" - false, already dealt with - "We don't need to stop spouting increasing amounts of carbon into the atmosphere" - except the scientific consensus is that we do need to stop this - "Lets put mirrors into space to reflect the sun away" - ah yes, a literal 'pie in the sky'... - "The GND is bad because it's progressive" - if anything that makes it more popular - "It will be politically difficult" - greter public awareness/attention (including thanks to Greta and all) is turning the tide, here.

    That list of articles just goes to show that the quality of attempted arguments against it, really don't amount to much - if anything, they are so bad that they strenghten the argument for a GND.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    That's my point Eric.
    The cry of 'Cheaper', is the problem. What will we do when the oil runs out, give up, go live in a cave? I doubt it.

    At the moment these green issues and resolutions are like finding a cure for a disease that only impacts the third world but the cure costs 50,000 dollars a go. If its not accessible to where its needed then it may aswell not exist outside a research lab at all.

    until you have a solution for energy, transport etc... that is as cheap and as productive as oil we shouldn't be sanctioning oil or trying to put an end to it. Give a real viable alternative and the oil industry will fall into the ground by its own hand.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,315 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    At the moment these green issues and resolutions are like finding a cure for a disease that only impacts the third world but the cure costs 50,000 dollars a go. If its not accessible to where its needed then it may aswell not exist outside a research lab at all.

    until you have a solution for energy, transport etc... that is as cheap and as productive as oil we shouldn't be sanctioning oil or trying to put an end to it. Give a real viable alternative and the oil industry will fall into the ground by its own hand.

    Or we could try to be happier with less and just tone down the ridiculous levels of consumption. Although I doubt someone like you would agree to any type of inconvenience even if it's for the greater good.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 271 ✭✭lleti




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Is there anything to argue about? At present it is just a promise of rainbows and unicorns for everybody with no indication of how this could be achieved.

    End the fossil fuel industry and all ancillary industries, transport, aviation, plastics etc.

    Employ all those replaced by the revolution

    Retrofit all buildings and transport

    Oh and end economic and racial inequality.

    Pie in the sky.
    It calls for a transformation of industry away from fossil fuels, not a complete end to them - and it expressly advocates massive government investment and employment of people in order to do it all - as you know, since it's been said so many times in the thread...

    It does include the Job Guarantee policy - which would be a permanent end to involuntary unemployment.

    It does call for retrofitting buildings to minimize energy usage and emissions - and massive expansion of public transport, also to reduce emissions.

    A lot of this also inherently helps resolve economic inequalities that have become so prevalent since the crisis - even just the Job Guarantee alone tips the balance, enormously, there...

    So yea, concrete policies for achieving all of that - and funding it - and the only objections people have are, once again, ideological...


This discussion has been closed.
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