Greta and the aristocrat sail the high seas to save the planet.

how does a 16 year old girl get to that position, who organises and backs her and why cant we focus on it without ye behaving like we slapped your niece on her birthday?

for any of the examples youve both given there anyone can ask about the how and why that person became a public figure, on their own steam or by a particular talent or by being harnessed in a pact that mutually benefits the backers and the figurehead

asking this about greta, who tells headline-grabbing fibs we cant discuss, causes ructions. ye seem to think that an autistic teenage girl has fewer questions behind her placement as an environmental christ

ye are wrong. theres ten times the questions about the use of an autistic child in such a position.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

how does a 16 year old girl get to that position, who organises and backs her and why cant we focus on it without ye behaving like we slapped your niece on her birthday?

for any of the examples youve both given there anyone can ask about the how and why that person became a public figure, on their own steam or by a particular talent or by being harnessed in a pact that mutually benefits the backers and the figurehead

asking this about greta, who tells headline-grabbing fibs we cant discuss, causes ructions. ye seem to think that an autistic teenage girl has fewer questions behind her placement as an environmental christ

ye are wrong. theres ten times the questions about the use of an autistic child in such a position.

Her story is straightforward.

• She became concerned and asked what she could do.
• Someone suggested joining a protest.
• She did, and continued protesting on her own.
• She kept at it.
• Swedish media started to pay attention.
• European media started to pay attention.
• Most who heard her message could see the simple truth in it.
• Millions started to follow her example
• Politicians in high places saw the success she was having and invited her to come and speak.

You can talk about her parents, Soros, taxes, snowflakes, PR, etc and so on but it smacks of tin hat conspiracy beliefs or bitterness at the attention a 16 year old girl has earned or plain old ostrich behaviour. This particularly goes for your statement 'use of an autistic child' like she is being coerced or trafficked in to something against her will.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Her story is straightforward.

• She became concerned and asked what she could do.
• Someone suggested joining a protest.
• She did, and continued protesting on her own.
• She kept at it.
• Swedish media started to pay attention.
• European media started to pay attention.
• Most who heard her message could see the simple truth in it.
• Millions started to follow her example
• Politicians in high places saw the success she was having and invited her to come and speak.

You can talk about her parents, Soros, taxes, snowflakes, PR, etc and so on but it smacks of tin hat conspiracy beliefs or bitterness at the attention a 16 year old girl has earned or plain old ostrich behaviour. This particularly goes for your statement 'use of an autistic child' like she is being coerced or trafficked in to something against her will.

your characterisation of "oh yknow some ppl just noticed her, nbd" is laughable.

instance my mentions of soros, taxes, snowflakes in this entire thread or amend that please (yknow, like you usually do after a while)

justify the description of questioning the platform as conspiracy theory without that hackjob weaving in of those random elements, if you can. my position has been consistent throughout, the platform here is deeply questionable in purposely selecting an autistic child specifically in order that any queries may be shouted down.

i dont hold many further thoughts on who or why may be behind that or what their ideas are, because to have that as a concern is frankly enough for me to dismiss the greta roadshow as a gimmick, totally separate to climate change or anything else.


the "you're with us or against us" cohort get the usual rejection of that intellectually and morally bankrupt position.

the "she believes she's right/her stated goals justify the ends/dont ask awkward questions" crew are much more interesting to me, because id like to know if they can defend that position (for it is very much the position of the most dedicated greta wagoners in this thread imo)

and yes, to your final line. Greta's autism and her youth and quite possibly her upbringing are factors that make her platforming deeply questionable because they each in their own way raise the concern as to the extent she can consent fully to the platform she has been raised to.

any child that becomes a figurehead of an industry or movement is a tool of an adult or a group of them. sometimes thats the parent/s, sometimes they are merely complicit. these ones appear to particularly suck at their role as responsible decision makers imo, and i dont particularly care if saying so makes me an......ostrich....?

Tell me how

^^
Rinse and repeat.

There is nothing anyone can say to you that will make you accept Greta as being a positive influence on the environment discussion. I don't care what you believe.
I don't have posters of her on my wall, I'm not flying a flag for her but I am very impressed by her, admire her efforts and think she is 100% right in her view that we need to support scientists in getting to a solution.

You can carry on looking for your conspiracy theories.

gozunda

Tell me how wrote: »

Her story is straightforward.

• She became concerned and asked what she could do.
• Someone suggested joining a protest.
• She did, and continued protesting on her own.
• She kept at it.
• Swedish media started to pay attention.
• European media started to pay attention.
• Most who heard her message could see the simple truth in it.
• Millions started to follow her example
• Politicians in high places saw the success she was having and invited her to come and speak.

...

The story is far from straightforward and should ring alarm bells for any rational adult.

From her and her parents accounts

• As a young child she watched some highly dramatised environmental videos, became increasingly obsessed with these ideas, was diagnosed with depression, and was later diagnosed with aspergers
  
• She also later refused to go to school and stopped eating.
  
• She appears to have developed an innate fear and belief that civilisation is going to end within the next decade and that school / study is therefore a waste of time. Earlier this year she dropped out of school despite being only 16 years of age.
  
• Her parents seemed to have facilitated her promotion via social media and elsewhere, in the publication of a book written by her mother when she first started protesting and later with her father managing appearances at various events etc.
  
• Many who heard her speeches and or watched her videos have genuine concerns that the teenager is being encouraged in these doomsday beliefs in order to bolster an overt style of climate alarmism
  
• Her behaviour and visceral reaction during a short speech at the UN conference in New York was deeply concerning in many ways.

That others are using the child is without doubt as just after her speech at the Nations Climate Action Summit - she and a group of other other young people officially 'filed' a legal complaint against a number of countries for carbon emissions with the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child - who are now charged with assessing the case.

Just as it is clear that greta did not sail the Atlantic by herself - it is also evident that the the teenager did not organise this latest event by herself and certainly not without significant help and backing.

Tell me how

You can keep repeating the above.
It once again smacks of someone really digging deep to justifying their outrage at her.
And the faux concern? Spare me, I have seen no one express concern who didn't back it up with more of the conspiracy theories.

And as always, if you are that concerned, heed her message. She will be thankful and that will help her.

gozunda

Tell me how wrote: »

You can keep repeating the above. It once again smacks of someone really digging deep to justifying their outrage at her. And the faux concern? Spare me, I have seen no one express concern who didn't back it up with more of the conspiracy theories.
And as always, if you are that concerned, heed her message. She will be thankful and that will help her.

No Tmh - that is simply in reply to your own rather one sided account of gretas rise to fame. Any rational adult or parent watching the teenager should have genuine concerns. No one is 'outraged'. No one is expressing 'faux' concern. It is all very real. There is no conspiracy theory there - it is simply evident she and the other young people did not organise the filling of that complaint off their own bat. Concerns as to the child being used by others- does not mean having to believe her 'message' that civilisation is going to end in the next decade. And doing so will certainly will not 'help' her or any other impressionable young poeople .

Edit:

The UN - using children for over a decade. Opening video used at the UN Climate Meeting in Copenhagen - 2009.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVGGgncVq-4

Tell me how

gozunda wrote: »

No Tmh - that is simply in reply to your own rather one sided account of gretas rise to fame. Any rational adult or parent watching the teenager should have genuine concerns. No one is 'outraged'. No one is expressing 'faux' concern. It is all very real. There is no conspiracy theory there - it is simply evident she and the other young people did not organise the filling of that complaint off their own bat. Concerns as to the child being used by others- does not mean having to believe her 'message' that civilisation is going to end in the next decade. And doing so will certainly will not 'help' her or any other impressionable young poeople .

If the concern is as real as you suggest (it most definitely isn't) then those expressing that concern might reign in the derogatory remarks about those suffering with Asperger. It kind of undermines the image of a compassionate society they are trying to project.

Action is needed.
Unite behind the science.

It's a simple message.

gozunda

Tell me how wrote: »

If the concern is as real as you suggest (it most definitely isn't) then those expressing that concern might reign in the derogatory remarks about those suffering with Asperger. It kind of undermines the image of a compassionate society they are trying to project. Action is needed behind the united science. It's a simple message.

Seriously that's your only reply out of all of that detail - 'aspergers'? If you are going to throw crap like that at least be honest enough to point out where the 'derogatory' remarks are in the above comment.

Oddly enough the condition is highlighted in that she claims the condition as a 'superpower' and uses it as a handle in Twitter profile and yet no one is even allowed to mention that without being accused of being 'derogaroty'. A cheap shot. And no that's not the message being pushed and being heard by other young people like these ...

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-03/sydney-student-at-climate-protest/11077290

Tell me how

gozunda wrote: »

Seriously that's your only reply out of all of that detail - 'aspergers'? If you are going to throw crap like that at least be honest enough to point out where the 'derogatory' remarks are in the above comment.

Oddly enough the condition is highlighted in that she claims the condition as a 'superpower' and uses it as a handle in Twitter profile and yet no one is even allowed to mention that without being accused of being 'derogaroty'. A cheap shot. And no that's not the message being pushed and being heard by other young people like these ...

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-03/sydney-student-at-climate-protest/11077290

There are 6100 comments on this thread. Every post does not specifically mean that items referenced were included in the post quoted.
And if you can't understand the difference between mentioning something and speaking in derogatory terms, then it explains a lot, but is no excuse.

This thread continues to convince me we are close to if not having already passed a threshold where the majority of people support Greta's views, there is no objective argument against it here only nonsense, subjectivity and straw men arguments.

Greta is going very well to communicate a necessary message. Fair play to her.

gozunda

Tell me how wrote: »

There are 6100 comments on this thread. Every post does not specifically mean that items referenced were included in the post quoted.
And if you can't understand the difference between mentioning something and speaking in derogatory terms, then it explains a lot, but is no excuse.This thread continues to convince me we are close to if not having already passed a threshold where the majority of people support Greta's views, there is no objective argument against it here only nonsense, subjectivity and straw men arguments. Greta is going very well to communicate a necessary message. Fair play to her.

Glad you cleared that up - so there's no derogatory comment regarding aspergers there or in the vast majority of comments in this thread. Grand so. But why drag it up as a wet fish in reply in the first place? Looks like little more than cheap shots as again simply no coherent argument to support such bizarre pedestal pushing extreme eco anxiety

Here another alarmist message using children which had to be removed due to its overt style of alarmism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjVW6roRs-w

'The film was made in an attempt to challenge the "no pressure" attitude (allegedly) displayed by governments and individuals towards taking real action on climate change. 10:10 highlighted the urgency of action with claims that carbon dioxide emissions (had to be) be stabilised by 2014* (within four years) in order to avoid disaster'

https://www.eitb.eus/en/news/detail/513293/controversial-climate-change-campaign-film-disgusts-make-a-point/

Ironicname

Tell me how wrote:

And as always, if you are that concerned, heed her message. She will be thankful and that will help her.

That's not how it works. Capitulation to her ideals and not addressing the issue of manipulation will not help in any way.

Tell me how wrote:

If the concern is as real as you suggest (it most definitely isn't) then those expressing that concern might reign in the derogatory remarks about those suffering with Asperger. It kind of undermines the image of a compassionate society they are trying to project.

As has been pointed out, there are very few derogatory comments and mentioning her disability/superpower is fair game as she openly promotes it.

Tell me how wrote:

Greta is going very well to communicate a necessary message. Fair play to her.

No she isn't. There is an even bigger backlash brewing.

Wanderer78

Ironicname wrote:

No she isn't. There is an even bigger backlash brewing.

A few million people around the planet seem to think so, there always will be backlash

Tell me how

Ironicname wrote: »

That's not how it works. Capitulation to her ideals and not addressing the issue of manipulation will not help in any way.

As has been pointed out, there are very few derogatory comments and mentioning her disability/superpower is fair game as she openly promotes it.

No she isn't. There is an even bigger backlash brewing.

So, you dont believe theres an issue with the environment which is partially caused by human behaviours and we need to listen to the scientists who say we need to act? Because those are her ideals. Is she wrong?

First it was there were no derogatory comments, now it's there were very few, at least we're moving towards the truth. Also, she doesn't promote it, she acknowledges it. Big difference.

What bigger backlash? What are you talking about?

Tell me how

Ironicname wrote: »

No she isn't. There is an even bigger backlash brewing.

Here's some of that backlash...

https://twitter.com/jeffgoodell/status/1186291007958245376?s=19

weldoninhio

mzungu wrote: »

Ah listen, she is 16 years old. She does better than most would in that situation. So what if she has a few lapses? Plus, most people in the public eye operate off a script. Whether that be politicians, actors, musicians etc. When things go off script even they start to flounder a little. Usually those that can go free form easily would be academics and journalists, mainly because they would have decades of research in various fields behind them. But a 16 year old? Nah, a few silent moments here and there and some botched answers is not out of the norm.

TL;DR Some of the most world renowned orators would be nowhere near as impressive if they were not working from a script. Nobody just goes out and starts winging it like some kind of open mic rap battle in a Detroit bar.

She was asked what message SHE hoped world leaders would get from HER UN speech. She stuttered for a few seconds then palmed it off to the panel. She hadn’t a clue how to answer it. She works off scripts because she has no clue about climate change.

gozunda

Tell me how wrote: »

So, you dont believe theres an issue with the environment which is partially caused by human behaviours and we need to listen to the scientists who say we need to act? Because those are her ideals. Is she wrong?First it was there were no derogatory comments, now it's there were very few, at least we're moving towards the truth. Also, she doesn't promote it, she acknowledges it. Big difference. ...

Pointing out that greta's alarmism is unhealthy has nothing to do with anyone believing "theres an issue with the environment" or otherwise. But you know that already.

Lol. Making it up? So you are now saying there were derogatory references re. aspergers in my comment to which you went off on a bender about it for no reason? Could you make up your mind there thanks. As clearly stated there was none in that comment. So you can drop the hyperbole and faux outrage you detailed earlier.

blueshade

mzungu wrote: »

Ah listen, she is 16 years old. She does better than most would in that situation. So what if she has a few lapses? Plus, most people in the public eye operate off a script. Whether that be politicians, actors, musicians etc. When things go off script even they start to flounder a little. Usually those that can go free form easily would be academics and journalists, mainly because they would have decades of research in various fields behind them. But a 16 year old? Nah, a few silent moments here and there and some botched answers is not out of the norm.

TL;DR Some of the most world renowned orators would be nowhere near as impressive if they were not working from a script. Nobody just goes out and starts winging it like some kind of open mic rap battle in a Detroit bar.

The problem isn't Greta herself, it's the people manipulating her. Her parents have lied and lied and lied. They've absolutely fooked up both of their kids and shamelessly attention whore them for their own personal gain. A has been actor and a has been singer with grandparents in the entertainment industry too. I've no doubt Greta believes this stuff, she's been fed it all her life and the poor kid self harms because of it. She and her sister should have been taken into care years ago and the parents charged with child abuse. She's just a puppet and her family is doing very nicely financially from it all. No matter to her parents that the kid is well on her way to a nervous breakdown.

Wanderer78

blueshade wrote:

The problem isn't Greta herself, it's the people manipulating her. Her parents have lied and lied and lied. They've absolutely fooked up both of their kids and shamelessly attention whore them for their own personal gain. A has been actor and a has been singer with grandparents in the entertainment industry too. I've no doubt Greta believes this stuff, she's been fed it all her life and the poor kid self harms because of it. She and her sister should have been taken into care years ago and the parents charged with child abuse. She's just a puppet and her family is doing very nicely financially from it all. No matter to her parents that the kid is well on her way to a nervous breakdown.

Self harm is common with autism, particularly with females

Tell me how

blueshade wrote: »

The problem isn't Greta herself, it's the people manipulating her. Her parents have lied and lied and lied. They've absolutely fooked up both of their kids and shamelessly attention whore them for their own personal gain. A has been actor and a has been singer with grandparents in the entertainment industry too. I've no doubt Greta believes this stuff, she's been fed it all her life and the poor kid self harms because of it. She and her sister should have been taken into care years ago and the parents charged with child abuse. She's just a puppet and her family is doing very nicely financially from it all. No matter to her parents that the kid is well on her way to a nervous breakdown.

She's not been manipulated.
Her parents haven't lied and lied and lied.
The thunbeg children have not been '****ed up'.
The children have not been shored for attention.
Her parents aren't 'has been' anything any more than yours are.
She hasn't been force fed anything.
There is no evidence the Thunberg children should have been taken in to care.
There is no evidence the Thunberg children have been abused.
She is not a puppet.
There is no evidence the Thunbergs have financially benefitted from her experience to any great degree.
Greta's demeanour would suggest she is very much enjoying her current experiences and there is no evidence that she is closer to a breakdown than she may have been previously.

Are you Donald Trump?
The amount of lies, innuendo, heresay and libel in this single post was astonishing.
And once again, thanked by someone who later will be saying no one has really said anything untrue about Greta or her parents and are in fact just concerned for her welfare...

Please!

Jimmy Garlic

Tell me how wrote: »

She's not been manipulated.
Her parents haven't lied and lied and lied.
The thunbeg children have not been '****ed up'.
The children have not been shored for attention.
Her parents aren't 'has been' anything any more than yours are.
She hasn't been force fed anything.
There is no evidence the Thunberg children should have been taken in to care.
There is no evidence the Thunberg children have been abused.
She is not a puppet.
There is no evidence the Thunbergs have financially benefitted from her experience to any great degree.
Greta's demeanour would suggest she is very much enjoying her current experiences and there is no evidence that she is closer to a breakdown than she may have been previously.

Are you Donald Trump?
The amount of lies, innuendo, heresay and libel in this single post was astonishing.
And once again, thanked by someone who later will be saying no one has really said anything untrue about Greta or her parents and are in fact just concerned for her welfare...

Please!

Fanboy levels of denial there :pac: Of course her parents stand to financially gain out of Greta... her mother already has in fact with Greta being the basis of the book she conveniently released around the time Greta was handpicked to be a climate messiah. Her father is in the process of making a documentary with Greta center stage, you think he won't have a payday. Then there is the media appearance fees, parties, award ceremonies etc, lots of perks for them.

blueshade

Tell me how wrote: »

She's not been manipulated.
Her parents haven't lied and lied and lied.
The thunbeg children have not been '****ed up'.
The children have not been shored for attention.
Her parents aren't 'has been' anything any more than yours are.
She hasn't been force fed anything.
There is no evidence the Thunberg children should have been taken in to care.
There is no evidence the Thunberg children have been abused.
She is not a puppet.
There is no evidence the Thunbergs have financially benefitted from her experience to any great degree.
Greta's demeanour would suggest she is very much enjoying her current experiences and there is no evidence that she is closer to a breakdown than she may have been previously.

Are you Donald Trump?
The amount of lies, innuendo, heresay and libel in this single post was astonishing.
And once again, thanked by someone who later will be saying no one has really said anything untrue about Greta or her parents and are in fact just concerned for her welfare...

Please!

Keep drinking the Kool Aid.

blueshade

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Fanboy levels of denial there :pac: Of course her parents stand to financially gain out of Greta... her mother already has in fact with Greta being the basis of the book she conveniently released around the time Greta was handpicked to be a climate messiah. Her father is in the process of making a documentary with Greta center stage, you think he won't have a payday. Then there is the media appearance fees, parties, award ceremonies etc, lots of perks for them.

Greta's protests began at the same time her mothers book was published. In fact if anyone cares to do even the most basic of searches they will find out that it's all basically tied to her mother's book and her mother's publishers and the PR company behind that. They'll also find that the kids at Greta's school had zero interest in all of it to begin with. I'm sure that Greta's photo replacing her mother's on the front of her mother's book won't bother her at all. Hey, just as long as those checkout tills are ringing with sales of that book who cares what lies get told and who gets hurt?

Beasty

Posts deleted

@blueshade - keep that type of speculation to yourself

Jimmy Garlic

blueshade wrote: »

Greta's protests began at the same time her mothers book was published. In fact if anyone cares to do even the most basic of searches they will find out that it's all basically tied to her mother's book and her mother's publishers and the PR company behind that. They'll also find that the kids at Greta's school had zero interest in all of it to begin with. I'm sure that Greta's photo replacing her mother's on the front of her mother's book won't bother her at all. Hey, just as long as those checkout tills are ringing with sales of that book who cares what lies get told and who gets hurt?

It so incredibly in your face. The whole messianic Greta show couldn't be more manufactured even if you put Louis Walsh in charge.

Tell me how

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

It so incredibly in your face. The whole messianic Greta show couldn't be more manufactured even if you put Louis Walsh in charge.

When was she last on television?

gozunda

Tell me how wrote: »

...
Are you Donald Trump?
The amount of lies, innuendo, heresay and libel in this single post was astonishing.
And once again, thanked by someone who later will be saying no one has really said anything untrue about Greta or her parents and are in fact just concerned for her welfare...
Please!

Now why would you think that of a poster? Heres an equally daft question - Are you donald duck? The amount of sideswiping and obsession with who thanks who for what - in that comment is astonishing.

Afaik the only thing Mr trump has said about greta was this...

She seems like a very happy young girl looking forward to a bright and wonderful future. So nice to see!”

It was obviously toungue in cheek considering the death stares being levied by Ms thunberg at the president during that conference.

At least she or whoever manages her twitter account appeared to take the tweet in the same vein and simply added the comment temporarily to her twitter profile. So all fine there.

Why the continued and daft personalisations and projections? - none of that make any sense tbh

Thelonious Monk

For all you folk with the India China bollocks, check this out

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/21/britain-is-g7s-biggest-net-importer-of-co2-emissions-per-capita-says-ons

I doubt we're far behind them - it is we rich Europeans and Yanks that are fuelling Chinese pollution.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

For all you folk with the India China bollocks, check this out

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/21/britain-is-g7s-biggest-net-importer-of-co2-emissions-per-capita-says-ons

I doubt we're far behind them - it is we rich Europeans and Yanks that are fuelling Chinese pollution.

Yeah. It's our fault the Chinese are polluting. Nothing to do with the Chinese.

Thelonious Monk

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah. It's our fault the Chinese are polluting. Nothing to do with the Chinese.

It's our fault and their fault