Greta and the aristocrat sail the high seas to save the planet.

Thelonious Monk

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

No, if the Govt are serious about environmental issues then theres a whole swathe of policies that could be implemented. A massive reduction on Plastics being one, of course this will never happen as it might hurt the profits of the Capitalists. All we get is pushing the costs on to the taxpayer and never on big business. Consumption must never take a hit.

The govt are not serious about environmental issues. That's the whole point.

Clarence Boddiker

Tell me how wrote: »

Once again, this post reads like someone who wants to see action to help the environment and yet, you are here undermining the strongest climate activist in in the world right now.

Why is that?

I don't care about Greta..a puppet. Its those behind her and their motivations that I'm suspicious of.

gozunda

Tell me how wrote: »

Once again, this post reads like someone who wants to see action to help the environment and yet, you are here undermining the strongest climate activist in in the world right now.
Why is that?

You see that's your opinion. Many others on this thread think otherwise.

But of course we all know everyone is entitled to their opinion.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Tell me how

gozunda wrote: »

You see that's your opinion. Many others on this thread think otherwise.

But if course as we all know everyone is entitled to their opinion.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's not just my opinion, the impact of her message, the invitations she has received, the awards she has won is, by some distance more forceful than anyone else at the moment.

Would you or anyone else loke to nominate a stronger climate activist in the world at this point in time?
Let me guess, that's not for you to do either.

Your signature (at this point) is appropriate. Visual graphic of 'Dont ask me, I dont know anything.'

Boredstiff666

Tell me how wrote: »

It's not just my opinion, the impact of her message, the invitations she has received, the awards she has won is, by some distance more forceful than anyone else at the moment.

Would you or anyone else loke to nominate a stronger climate activist in the world at this point in time?
Let me guess, that's not for you to do either.

Your signature (at this point) is appropriate. Visual graphic of 'Dont ask me, I dont know anything.'

I would like to watch and listen to someone else.

biko

I think Greta should go for an open goal - EU parliament's move between Strasbourg and Brussels.
All those trucks used to haul papers etc - that is tonnes of Co2 she could go after.

gozunda

Tell me how wrote: »

It's not just my opinion, the impact of her message, the invitations she has received, the awards she has won is, by some distance more forceful than anyone else at the moment. Would you or anyone else loke to nominate a stronger climate activist in the world at this point in time?
Let me guess, that's not for you to do either.
Your signature (at this point) is appropriate. Visual graphic of 'Dont ask me, I dont know anything.'

Nah I dont agree and apparently many others dont either. But there we go eh?

Is there a competition or award for the best climate alarmist or something? Wow. What are the entry requirements? Tantrums perhaps?

Well if that's the case I'll certainly nominate greta for that anyway :pac:

No the little emoji is Shrugman - just in case you dont know that

He is agreeing that greta is really not that convincing

Glad you like him

KyussB

Tuisceanch wrote: »

Have you got any easier questions as I haven't got a whole government department working for me to collate the data,explore the options available,determine feasibility etc. But in short I can't help but feel that this is a real emergency and responsibility for taking action lies with the Government. I think any real solutions are going to be unpalatable and difficult to sell to the public, plus we, as a country, are reliant on political and economic alliances, so our choices are severely limited. I think that we need the US to lead on this, but I think the impeachment yesterday of Trump in the house of Representatives might backfire on the Democrats, and that's assuming the Democrats would have the courage to embrace more radical solutions.

Heh - fair enough, the questions are difficult - I guess one of the nubs of the questions, is whether people intend government efforts to be funded entirely through taxes? If not, where would the money come from?

Mainly trying to get posters to look beyond taxation.

jackboy

DublinWriter wrote: »

Thunberg has already graduated from secondary education with 14 As and three Bs.

Fair play to her. 17 subjects. Seems a bit much.

Tuisceanch

KyussB wrote: »

Heh - fair enough, the questions are difficult - I guess one of the nubs of the questions, is whether people intend government efforts to be funded entirely through taxes? If not, where would the money come from?

Mainly trying to get posters to look beyond taxation.

Oh I'm having a think about it alright. I think, as another poster pointed out recently, it should ideally be funded by taxing large corporations and closing the loopholes on tax evasion,especially off-shore, rather than imposing punitive taxes on the people least able to afford them but since our competitive advantage comes from our low corporate tax regime then it's not a step I can imagine any Irish Government taking.Since we're part of the Euro we're also not in a position to independently rethink our monetary system in the way I think you're suggesting as outlined in 'The People's Money' but I need to spend more time reading it before commenting further. Much like many I don't think carbon taxes,in the Irish context, are going to be particularly effective given our not so competent track record of managing infrastructural projects. I suspect we will just muddle on as usual.

gozunda

DublinWriter wrote: »

Thunberg has already graduated from secondary education with 14 As and three Bs.
But don't let actual facts get in the way of some good ol' fashioned tabloid mudslinging. Be clever like Trump and make **** up.

Well except that's not how secondary education works in Sweden with regard to progression through to third level education

Swedish secondary education consists of two parts - Lower Secondary up to 16 years of age and Upper Secondary (although not technically compulsory) with approximately 98 percent of all students continuing their schooling in the three-year program after they turn sixteen. 

Students going on to Upper Secondary education may choose from a wide variety of vocational and college preparatory programs for three years after which they would attend Third level if they choose to do so.

At present it would appear that greta has done a bunk rather than continuing her secondary education.

But as you said 'don't let actual facts get in the way of some good ol' fashioned tabloid mudslinging. Be clever like Trump and make **** up'.

Boredstiff666

Tuisceanch wrote: »

Oh I'm having a think about it alright. I think, as another poster pointed out recently, it should ideally be funded by taxing large corporations and closing the loopholes on tax evasion,especially off-shore, rather than imposing punitive taxes on the people least able to afford them but since our competitive advantage comes from our low corporate tax regime then it's not a step I can imagine any Irish Government taking.Since we're part of the Euro we're also not in a position to independently rethink our monetary system in the way I think you're suggesting as outlined in 'The People's Money' but I need to spend more time reading it before commenting further. Much like many I don't think carbon taxes,in the Irish context, are going to be particularly effective given our not so competent track record of managing infrastructural projects. I suspect we will just muddle on as usual.

That's all correct and very well but......

The big corp can move anywhere they like at the drop of a hat and Brexit will most likely happen soon so who knows what will happen then.

Also the advantage of having big corp in Ireland and not taxing them isn't working as because of this and other things Irelands debt is spiraling out of control.

With such a small population the Irish people are such a tiny contributor to all the ****e so really why should we penalise ourselves so much. If there is any carbon taxes make sure that there is a mass tree planting all over Ireland so we can say up yours to anybody who puts us in the same boat as any rich American etc.

If you spend the money on anything but tree planting then you will give ministers the excuse to keep increasing that new tax to feed their greedy ways. Every single penny in any carbon tax should go back into the environment.

feargale

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Climate saint Greta Trunburg is settling sail for UN climate talks in New York to demand that governments socially engineer and tax the little people into oblivion to save the planet. Accompanied by her film maker father who lives vicariously through her, a filthy rich aristocrat from Monaco and some German bloke the trip will no doubt vastly increase the wattage of her halo before she lectures us all about impending climate Armageddon in New York. Hopefully snaps from the trip will make it into Hello! Magazine.

So, if I'm hitchhiking to Dublin and a gas-guzzling Rolls Royce stops to offer me a lift I should say: no thank you, I'm waiting for a pony and trap to come along.

Let's suppose everything bad said about her here is true and fair. Ok. Can we talk about climate change now? Is it happening or not?

KyussB

Tuisceanch wrote: »

Oh I'm having a think about it alright. I think, as another poster pointed out recently, it should ideally be funded by taxing large corporations and closing the loopholes on tax evasion,especially off-shore, rather than imposing punitive taxes on the people least able to afford them but since our competitive advantage comes from our low corporate tax regime then it's not a step I can imagine any Irish Government taking.Since we're part of the Euro we're also not in a position to independently rethink our monetary system in the way I think you're suggesting as outlined in 'The People's Money' but I need to spend more time reading it before commenting further. Much like many I don't think carbon taxes,in the Irish context, are going to be particularly effective given our not so competent track record of managing infrastructural projects. I suspect we will just muddle on as usual.

Government Bonds (especially at todays rates)?

Don't you think it's odd that when they are discussed, it's nearly always in moral terms - with the assumption always being that they are bad - instead of in mathematical/accounting/economic terms, where it is rarely seen that way?

weldoninhio

DublinWriter wrote: »

Thunberg has already graduated from secondary education with 14 As and three Bs.

But don't let actual facts get in the way of some good ol' fashioned tabloid mudslinging. Be clever like Trump and make **** up.

That’s a decent Junior Cert equivalent. Don’t know anyone that puts their Junior Cert results on a CV or college application though.

Tuisceanch

KyussB wrote: »

Government Bonds (especially at todays rates)?

Don't you think it's odd that when they are discussed, it's nearly always in moral terms - with the assumption always being that they are bad - instead of in mathematical/accounting/economic terms, where it is rarely seen that way?

I wouldn't mind if you could elaborate on what you meant by the highlighted text.

In terms of Government Bonds / GDP

The debt to GDP ratio admitted to by the NTMA stood at 68% at the end of 2017. Economists argue that this figure is misleading and the country’s true debt to GDP ratio is probably more like 106%. No one disputes the debt amount. However, the traditional method calculating GDP breaks down in Ireland. This is because the country attracted a lot of foreign multinational companies to make their EU base in Ireland by offering tax exemptions. As a result of this, many US companies run their entire EU revenue through their Irish offices even when the work that earned that money was actually performed in other countries. An example of this distortion of GDP figures occured in 2016, when the Central Statistics Office reported Ireland’s GDP had grown by 26.3% in 2015.

Since you know a lot about this subject can you save me the time of googling and tell me whether the EU imposes any restrictions on the monetary amount of Government bonds each member state can issue?

Tell me how

feargale wrote: »

So, if I'm hitchhiking to Dublin and a gas-guzzling Rolls Royce stops to offer me a lift I should say: no thank you, I'm waiting for a pony and trap to come along.

Let's suppose everything bad said about her here is true and fair. Ok. Can we talk about climate change now? Is it happening or not?

What do you think?

Tuisceanch

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

That's all correct and very well but......

The big corp can move anywhere they like at the drop of a hat and Brexit will most likely happen soon so who knows what will happen then.

Also the advantage of having big corp in Ireland and not taxing them isn't working as because of this and other things Irelands debt is spiraling out of control.

With such a small population the Irish people are such a tiny contributor to all the ****e so really why should we penalise ourselves so much. If there is any carbon taxes make sure that there is a mass tree planting all over Ireland so we can say up yours to anybody who puts us in the same boat as any rich American etc.

If you spend the money on anything but tree planting then you will give ministers the excuse to keep increasing that new tax to feed their greedy ways. Every single penny in any carbon tax should go back into the environment.

Well my point, regarding incentives to attract foreign multinational companies, was that any steps taken that make those conditions less favourable, risks job losses, which we can't readily replace. Obviously those companies don't generally consider social impacts on the host country when making business decisions so that risk is always present.

I don't know how ring fencing taxes to finance mass tree planting adds up in terms of accounting for our emissions and meeting our EU commitments,and there is also the broader question of the carbon budget i.e. we need to actually cut our emissions as well,and also the opposition such a program might also engender.

Trusting people in high office or positions of power not to be greedy isn't also my default position.

Basically as this is such a complex subject and really it was surely the role of COP25 to address these issues.

Although many are not so enamoured with Greta Thunberg, seeing her as a puppet and so forth, it might be useful to consider if whether these words, if uttered by an animated character,like Mickey Mouse, would lose their resonance simply based on that fact?

Swedish climate activist Greta Thunberg denounced the pledges of wealthy countries and businesses to curb climate change for being hollow and deceptive, calling the efforts "clever accounting and creative PR"

That to be mean seems a pretty accurate summing up of the state of play regarding negotiations over actions and so it is irrelevant as far as i'm concerned who said them.

Boredstiff666

Tuisceanch wrote: »

Well my point, regarding incentives to attract foreign multinational companies, was that any steps taken that make those conditions less favourable, risks job losses, which we can't readily replace. Obviously those companies don't generally consider social impacts on the host country when making business decisions so that risk is always present.

I don't know how ring fencing taxes to finance mass tree planting adds up in terms of accounting for our emissions and meeting our EU commitments,and there is also the broader question of the carbon budget i.e. we need to actually cut our emissions as well,and also the opposition such a program might also engender.

Multinational companies that use tax payers money to build and extend factories, then do not tax their profits but include their turnover in the countries GDP is an idiots economy. Any country in the world can do this but I cant think of any that want to. Ireland should build its own economy.

Planting trees........Do you know better ways of turning co2 back into oxygen?

Tuisceanch

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Multinational companies that use tax payers money to build and extend factories, then do not tax their profits but include their turnover in the countries GDP is an idiots economy. Any country in the world can do this but I cant think of any that want to. Ireland should build its own economy.

Planting trees........Do you know better ways of turning co2 back into oxygen?

Yes it's an unjust and ultimately unsustainable economy,in my opinion. What you are suggesting however, would be considered radical by many here and dare I say it 'socialist'. I also don't disagree with planting trees but in terms of real politik I also don't think it will satisfy our obligations to the EU20. All I'm really saying is that I share your sentiments but constrained by our system,lack of public awareness,lack of political imagination,courage and competence it's difficult to envisage us suddenly changing direction any time soon. So hopefully all is for the best in this best of all possible worlds.

Boredstiff666

Tuisceanch wrote: »

Yes it's an unjust and ultimately unsustainable economy,in my opinion. What you are suggesting however, would be considered radical by many here and dare I say it 'socialist'. I also don't disagree with planting trees but in terms of real politik I also don't think it will satisfy our obligations to the EU20. All I'm really saying is that I share your sentiments but constrained by our system,lack of public awareness,lack of political imagination,courage and competence it's difficult to envisage us suddenly changing direction any time soon. So hopefully all is for the best in this best of all possible worlds.

I dont think the EU will be there in it's present form very soon and as regards trees.......Well being as we are all gonna turn veggie, what you gonna do with the land cus there aint gonna be any animals on it.

You cant just leave it because it turns into impenetrable bush land within 10 years and would cost a fortune to clean up again. The animals keep it clean, so you have to keep animals to graze it or plant it with trees.

Mister Vain

feargale wrote: »

So, if I'm hitchhiking to Dublin and a gas-guzzling Rolls Royce stops to offer me a lift I should say: no thank you, I'm waiting for a pony and trap to come along.

Let's suppose everything bad said about her here is true and fair. Ok. Can we talk about climate change now? Is it happening or not?

It is but we're contributing sweet fook all to it.

Tuisceanch

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

I dont think the EU will be there in it's present form very soon and as regards trees.......Well being as we are all gonna turn veggie, what you gonna do with the land cus there aint gonna be any animals on it.

You cant just leave it because it turns into impenetrable bush land within 10 years and would cost a fortune to clean up again. The animals keep it clean, so you have to keep animals to graze it or plant it with trees.

I think any movement to turn us all into veggies will meet with stiff opposition ,certainly based on some of the comments on here,and so it's equally likely that those people might be turned into steaks themselves before we all succumb to a diet of twigs and berries.

Boredstiff666

Tuisceanch wrote: »

I think any movement to turn us all into veggies will meet with stiff opposition ,certainly based on some of the comments on here,and so it's equally likely that those people might be turned into steaks themselves before we all succumb to a diet of twigs and berries.

Chips are nice.

feargale

Tell me how wrote: »

What do you think?

I think it is. What do you think?

Tell me how

feargale wrote: »

I think it is. What do you think?

I think it is.
I think we need an activist to get everybody talking about it and actively calling for serious action to be taken.

feargale

Mister Vain wrote: »

It is but we're contributing sweet fook all to it.

I'm no scientist so I can only go on what my scientific betters tell me.90% plus of them tell me we are contributing to climate change and the destruction of life on our planet, and changes that took millions of years to occur are now happening in what is in evolutionary terms the batt of an eyelid. They also tell me that human activity is contributing to this to an overwhelming degree.
Tell me what motive scientists might have to inconvenience us with this message. Personal profit? I don't think so. Now look at, say, Philip Morris and other tobacco companies and how they spent a fortune in the fifties suppressing information that incontrovertibly linked tobacco to cancer. You think such greed and cynicism has vanished from the world? Dream on. You think there are not large corporations out there dealing in oil, automobiles etc. who are not prepared to bribe people of substance in the scientific world to prostitute their vocation? Dream on.
Yes, you can sometimes uncover hypocrisy on the part of environmentalists. And you can make a meal of some of them availing of climate-unfriendly mod-cons to spread their message such as travelling to international conferences in something other than a sailboat.
Being a sinner never disqualified a person from being a Christian for instance. We are all environmental sinners. That does not invalidate the message. The first step for an alcoholic is to recognise that they are an alcoholic. The bitter medicine comes later. But so long as we are in denial we are doomed.
Of course it's easier to rubbish people on bicycles than to face up to the inconveniece of recognising worsening weather patterns, increased flooding, unprecented heatwaves and unseasonal downpours and storms before our eyes as we speak. I can only conclude that the vast majority of climate change deniers either don't l have grandchildren who will reproach them or don't give a s**t.

Boredstiff666

Tell me how wrote: »

I think it is.
I think we need an activist to get everybody talking about it and actively calling for serious action to be taken.

Great i will just find some more porn to watch before you try and ban that as well. You work away.

Tell me how

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Great i will just find some more porn to watch before you try and ban that as well. You work away.

I'd say your 15 year old self would be delighted with the person you have become and your ability to put across your argument.

Your point has nothing to do with what is being discussed by the way other than giving us a clue as to how and why you picked your username.

Boredstiff666

Tell me how wrote: »

I'd say your 15 year old self would be delighted with the person you have become and your ability to put across your argument.

Your point has nothing to do with what is being discussed by the way other than giving us a clue as to how and why you picked your username.

I thought you were discussing Greta and how right or wrong she is same as the scientists and what you/me/we will have to do about it?