Greta and the aristocrat sail the high seas to save the planet.

Mebuntu

Tell me how wrote: »

This child has decided all along what she wanted to do having initially to convince her sceptical parents it was worth doing.

There is no exploitation here, what evidence have you of a point that's being missed?

No child and especially a naive and vulnerable child with disabilities should be allowed to "decide" on such matters. Her parents have obviously decided that their daughter is better off trying to achieve worldwide "fame" rather than considering the importance of her education and stability. The cause campaigners should have disowned her from the beginning as, otherwise, they are complicit.

The people here who continue to believe this child should continue in the present vein are, plainly, missing the point.

Tell me how

Mebuntu wrote: »

No child and especially a naive and vulnerable child with disabilities should be allowed to "decide" on such matters. Her parents have obviously decided that their daughter is better off trying to achieve worldwide "fame" rather than considering the importance of her education and stability. The cause campaigners should have disowned her from the beginning as, otherwise, they are complicit.

The people here who continue to believe this child should continue in the present vein are, plainly, missing the point.

We get the point alright, 'We'd have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky kids'.

Half joking but people are very riled with the idea a child is leading by example.

xckjoo

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So you are saying that more climate predictions have proved to be accurate than inaccurate?

Jesus that's some false extrapolation from a single word response.

Tell me how

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So you are saying that more climate predictions have proved to be accurate than inaccurate?

It's the consensus which is relevant, not the specific exact timeframe or outcome.

Pa ElGrande

Tell me how wrote: »

It's the consensus which is relevant, not the specific exact timeframe or outcome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnsiZOJjfUg

joe40

Mebuntu wrote: »

No child and especially a naive and vulnerable child with disabilities should be allowed to "decide" on such matters. Her parents have obviously decided that their daughter is better off trying to achieve worldwide "fame" rather than considering the importance of her education and stability. The cause campaigners should have disowned her from the beginning as, otherwise, they are complicit.

The people here who continue to believe this child should continue in the present vein are, plainly, missing the point.

There is an argument that maybe she is too young to be put in this position, but that ultimately depends on the support system that surrounds her.
However, and this is important, it seems to me that everyone that is opposed to her and what she is saying is also opposed to the idea of climate change.
All the faux concern for her well being is just hypocritical, because what they really want is for her to shut up, because a lot of people, especially young people are listening to her.

Maybe some poster here could say they fully accept that climate change is a drastic issue needing urgent and decisive action, but still dislike the way Greta is used. None have said so yet. Nor have any of her detractors in the media.

They all simply want to attack greta because they want to attack her message.

Tell me how

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Don't worry about it.

gozunda

Tell me how wrote: »

There's so much in this post that just exists within your own head that I'm nearly tempted to ignore it. However, let's try again.She's advocating the development of alternative solutions for energy as opposed to fossil fuels. Saying we have to get to that point is not the same as saying the pumps should be turned off immediately which is what a ban would be.Again, 12 years, 30 or 100 isn't really the point as it is insignificant in terms of life in Earth timeframe. She has said she doesn't have the solutions but that they are needed.If her father was using her as you suggest, why did she have to convince her entire family it was important she protested for the environment. What has led you to think he is trying to manipulate her?

And again what the fuk would a 16 year old child know about any of that?

The answer she doesnt. Shes telling everyone that the fossil fuels have to left where they are. Turn off the taps and let's sit in the dark. Now. What's not to understand?

Again you only listen to the hype - her mother and father were involved in the deep green wash movement long before gretas little head was stuck in the mix. But even they balked at her bunking her special needs school to go off down the town during school time because she had become obsessed with one singular topic. But she did it anyway. And they have given in to their child as she clearly gets what's she wants. They have now decided they might as well make it a good thing for them as for certain theres bugger all else they can do evidently. And the fact she is talking obsessively about the eotr thing in 11 years 4 months and 12 days doesn't bother you at all? Lol..

It's all alreay been detailed in this thread. But anything you dont like - you just ignore and sing la la la la

Tell me how

gozunda wrote: »

And again what the fuk would a 16 year old child know about any of that?

The answer she doesnt. Shes telling everyone that the fossil fuels have to left where they are. Urn off the toss. Let's sit in the dark. Now. What's not to understand?

Again you only listen to the hype - her mother and father were involved in the deep green wash movement long before gretas little head was stuck in the mix. But even they balked at her bunking her special needs school to go off down the town during school time because she had become obsessed with one singular topic. But she did it anyway. And they have given in to their child as she clearly gets what's she wants. And the fact she is talking bs about the eotr thing in 11 years 4 months and 12 days doesn't bother you at all? Lol..

It's all alreay been detailed in this thread. But anything you dont like - you just ignore and sing la la la la

Just because BS is posted repeatedly, does not make it non-BS.

Your posts are getting quite erratic by the way. Maybe take a breather.

weisses

gozunda wrote: »

And again what the fuk would a 16 year old child know about any of that?

The answer she doesnt. Shes telling everyone that the fossil fuels have to left where they are. Turn off the taps and let's sit in the dark. Now. What's not to understand?

Again you only listen to the hype - her mother and father were involved in the deep green wash movement long before gretas little head was stuck in the mix. But even they balked at her bunking her special needs school to go off down the town during school time because she had become obsessed with one singular topic. But she did it anyway. And they have given in to their child as she clearly gets what's she wants. They have now decided they might as well make it a good thing for them as for certain theres bugger all else they can do evidently. And the fact she is talking obsessively about the eotr thing in 11 years 4 months and 12 days doesn't bother you at all? Lol..

It's all alreay been detailed in this thread. But anything you dont like - you just ignore and sing la la la la

No hype

You cannot deal with the facts in regards to sustainability coz it might involve a big change in your own profession .... change is scary, specially if you get schooled by a 16 year old

gozunda

Tell me how wrote: »

Say 500,000,000 have heard Greta's story
1% = 5,000,000
.1% = 500,000
If these 500k people decide on just one occasion not to fly transatlantic, that's 500,000 transatlantic trips not taken.

If wishes were fishes, we'd all swim in the sea.

Any more daft imaginations about the kinda thing that the child greta can magic up by appearing to the faithful?

Maybe she will pee off those 500k people who will just get so annoyed at all this baloney she is spouting about fear, panic, eotr - that they will just say fek it and fly anyway - ever think of that?

Tell me how wrote: »

She's not being used.She is still controlling where she goes, who she talks to and what she says.She's being supported by like-minded people who believe we should protect the environment.

I can only believe you are being deliberatly naive in your thinking if you believe any of that tbh.

She is a 16 year old child. She may indeed be getting what she thinks she wants. Still doesn't mean that people smarter than her are not using her for their own ends. That much is clear.

gozunda

weisses wrote: »

No hypeYou cannot deal with the facts in regards to sustainability coz it might involve a big change in your own profession. change is scary, specially if you get schooled by a 16 year old

Considering you didn't even know what 'sustainability' was shows that comment is about as deep as a puddle.

Let me show how such poor attempts at mud slinging can backfire - Do you drive a car ? Do you have central heating? Do you buy cheap imported food and not really give a fuk where it comes from or that it is often produced with few if any environmental or ethical standards? What about the cheap flights you bought to fly off somewhere. All involve huge amounts of fossil fuels and are not sustainable. Indeed change for you will be terrifying. And yet you point your pointy stick at others lol.

Why do you always have to try personalisation of every argument. It's like you can't engage in a real discusdion without engaging in this type of rubbish. Says a lot tbh.

Are you saying you are 16 years old or are you referring to gretta - genuine question?

joe40

joe40 wrote: »

it seems to me that everyone that is opposed to her and what she is saying is also opposed to the idea of climate change.
All the faux concern for her well being is just hypocritical, because what they really want is for her to shut up, because a lot of people, especially young people are listening to her.

Maybe some poster here could say they fully accept that climate change is a drastic issue needing urgent and decisive action, but still dislike the way Greta is used. None have said so yet. Nor have any of her detractors in the media.

They all simply want to attack greta because they want to attack her message.

you clearly haven't read all that carefully then.
I'm not attacking Greta, neither am I a climate denier nor a right-wing trumplover, as some on here would like to believe.

I don't get it. Why would anyone need a child to tell them exactly nothing?
Climate change is terrible & the world should listen to scientists?
great, thanks for that:rolleyes:
I will just listen to scientists.....

and It's exactly because she is a child , and truth time, because she has special needs, no-one is allowed to say anything against her!

Tell me how

gozunda wrote: »

Let me show how such poor attempts at mud slinging can backfire - Do you drive a car ? Do you have central heating? Do you buy cheap imported food and not really give a fuk where it comes from or that it is often produced with few if any environmental or ethical standards? Whst about the cheap flights you bought to fly off sonewhere. All involve huge amounts of fossil fuels. Indeed change for you will be terrifying. And yet you point your pointy stick at others lol.

I drive a car - already use public transport/cycling when I can.
I have central heating - I made a conscious decision to use it only when necessary, first option when it gets cold? another layer of clothing.
I buy local already wherever I can.
Flights use fossil fuels do they? Fair play to Greta for getting the boat!

So, what are you doing? Be honest now.

Stevieluvsye

gozunda wrote: »

And again what the fuk would a 16 year old child know about any of that?

The answer she doesnt. Shes telling everyone that the fossil fuels have to left where they are. Turn off the taps and let's sit in the dark. Now. What's not to understand?

Again you only listen to the hype - her mother and father were involved in the deep green wash movement long before gretas little head was stuck in the mix. But even they balked at her bunking her special needs school to go off down the town during school time because she had become obsessed with one singular topic. But she did it anyway. And they have given in to their child as she clearly gets what's she wants. They have now decided they might as well make it a good thing for them as for certain theres bugger all else they can do evidently. And the fact she is talking obsessively about the eotr thing in 11 years 4 months and 12 days doesn't bother you at all? Lol..

It's all alreay been detailed in this thread. But anything you dont like - you just ignore and sing la la la la

This is why i stopped posting because of the ignorance who think their word is Gospel and not open to argument.

Veganism at it's finest

Tell me how

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

This is why i stopped posting because of the ignorance who think there word is Gospel and not open to argument.

Veganism at it's finest

Hello pot, kettle here.

Stevieluvsye

Tell me how wrote: »

Hello pot, kettle here.

You haven't stopped posting on this thread since day 1. "He who shouts loudest"

I stated my points previously

gozunda

Tell me how wrote: »

I drive a car - already use public transport/cycling when I can.
I have central heating - I made a conscious decision to use it only when necessary, first option when it gets cold? another layer of clothing.I buy local already wherever I can.
Flights use fossil fuels do they? Fair play to Greta for getting the boat!
So, what are you doing? Be honest now.

Lol. You didn't understand any of that. The point made to the other poster - if you choose to attack some one instead of discussion - it simply becomes a virtual pizzing competition. So point is get with the program and try and actually discuss the topic of the thread and not just throw **** at individual posters. It's that simple.

Ulysses Gaze

Tell me how wrote: »

I drive a car - already use public transport/cycling when I can.
I have central heating - I made a conscious decision to use it only when necessary, first option when it gets cold? another layer of clothing.
I buy local already wherever I can.
Flights use fossil fuels do they? Fair play to Greta for getting the boat!

So, what are you doing? Be honest now.

Unless the flights are powered by just wind and air they will use fossil fuels.

Tell me how

gozunda wrote: »

If wishes were fishes, we'd all swim in the sea.

Any more daft imaginations about the kinda thing that the child greta can magic up by appearing to the faithful?

Maybe she will pee off those 500k people who will just get so annoyed at all this baloney she is spouting about fear, panic, eotr - that they will just say fek it and fly anyway - ever think of that?



I can only believe you are being deliberatly naive in your thinking if you believe any of that tbh.

She is a 16 year old child. She may indeed be getting what she thinks she wants. Still doesn't mean that people smarter than her are not using her for their own ends. That much is clear.

Why do you dislike her so much, it seems to go way beyond disagreement.

You think I am being deliberately naive, what do you think your position comes across as?

Tell me how

gozunda wrote: »

Lol. You didn't understand any of that. The point made to the other poster - if you choose to attack some one instead of discussion - it simply becomes a pizzing competition. So get with the program and try and actually discuss the topic of the thread and not just throw **** at individual posters. It's that simple.

So nothing then.....

joe40

joe40 wrote: »

There is an argument that maybe she is too young to be put in this position, but that ultimately depends on the support system that surrounds her.
However, and this is important, it seems to me that everyone that is opposed to her and what she is saying is also opposed to the idea of climate change.
All the faux concern for her well being is just hypocritical, because what they really want is for her to shut up, because a lot of people, especially young people are listening to her.

Maybe some poster here could say they fully accept that climate change is a drastic issue needing urgent and decisive action, but still dislike the way Greta is used. None have said so yet. Nor have any of her detractors in the media.

They all simply want to attack greta because they want to attack her message.

sorry joe, actual dozens of people have taken precisely this position

they are being portrayed as suits the gretafans which tbh underlines the point.

lads there will not be a climate change messiah. cynicism around the attention and buzz given to one- regardless of their age, disability, foot size, whatever- is valid.

take it as a given that a very small minority argue in 100% good faith on any topic that's as hot or runs as long as this one, but let's not pretend one side is all goody two shoes and the other a troll brigade

jackboy

Tell me how wrote: »

That approach sounds even more laudable than just going with her words.

Laudable maybe but they are not her words. Also, who are these people (the non scientists) she is asking for input?

Tell me how

jackboy wrote: »

Laudable maybe but they are not her words. Also, who are these people (the non scientists) she is asking for input?

I don't know. It was you who suggested it.

jackboy wrote: »

She says she asks for input when writing her speeches. Also, she gets her speeches checked by scientists for accuracy. Sensible in theory but who are those providing input and who are the scientists. So, you could say she writes the speeches but to say they are her words is quite a stretch.

joe40

[Deleted User] wrote: »

sorry joe, actual dozens of people have taken precisely this position

they are being portrayed as suits the gretafans which tbh underlines the point.

lads there will not be a climate change messiah. cynicism around the attention and buzz given to one- regardless of their age, disability, foot size, whatever- is valid.

take it as a given that a very small minority argue in 100% good faith on any topic that's as hot or runs as long as this one, but let's not pretend one side is all goody two shoes and the other a troll brigade

If you say "dozens of people" I'll take you word but I haven't heard many of them.
The critics here and in the media are generally the type that are opposed to the idea that climate change is a problem that necessitates drastic action on a global level.

The following article pretty much sums up my position on the Greta thing. Message is sound but not sure all the attention on a 16 year old is right

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/19/greta-thunberg-attackers-climate-crisis-activist

jackboy

Tell me how wrote: »

I don't know. It was you who suggested it.

No, it was Greta that said she asks for input when writing her speeches (beyond the scientists). I wasn't really asking you who they are. I'm saying it's not clear who they are. So, we don't really know the individuals writing her speeches.

Tell me how

joe40 wrote: »

If you say "dozens of people" I'll take you word but I haven't heard many of them.
The critics here and in the media are generally the type that are opposed to the idea that climate change is a problem that necessitates drastic action on a global level.

The following article pretty much sums up my position on the Greta thing. Message is sound but not sure all the attention on a 16 year old is right

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/19/greta-thunberg-attackers-climate-crisis-activist

It most definitely isn't, but that 16 year old has garnered the attention thus far through encouraging others to follow in her footsteps. One thing we can all agree on is if the conversation ends at what Greta does and doesn't do, then it is a lost cause.

One thing I have been curious about is the absence of Dame Ellen MacArthur in commentary on Greta. Given her promotion of the Circular Economy having been a sailor who saw the impact of discarded rubbish on the oceans, I am surprised that they have not appeared together or that I haven't seen Ellen comment on her.

gozunda

Tell me how wrote: »

So nothing then.....

Lol.

Do you need it spelled out in words of 3 syllables or less so it will make the point of that comment easier to understand no?

joe40

joe40 wrote: »

If you say "dozens of people" I'll take you word but I haven't heard many of them.
The critics here and in the media are generally the type that are opposed to the idea that climate change is a problem that necessitates drastic action on a global level.

The following article pretty much sums up my position on the Greta thing. Message is sound but not sure all the attention on a 16 year old is right

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/19/greta-thunberg-attackers-climate-crisis-activist

im always a fan of asking "who is putting this in front of me, and why"

also

"no war but a class war"

if that means that my climate change rep suffers on boards I'll pay that

theres never a reason not to live smarter and better as a species, theres never a reason not to question when a movement tells you "believe this, or else"

Pa ElGrande

Greta and here handlers are a sideshow the climate battle is moving to one of costs and the trade offs involved. You should be paying attention to what is happening to the local electrical grid especially the impact of unreliable power sources are having on the stability of the electrical grid that we are going to be increasingly dependent on due the pursuit of current policies. For more background see Synthetic inertia in grids with a high renewable energy content. Electricity generation is going to become more expensive in order to ensure reliable supply and we are already 4th highest prices in the EU approaching Denmark and Germany who have high unreliables component on their networks. It would be easy to single out the greens as the scapegoat for this but that on it's own is not sufficient you have to consider the economics of the power generation and prices as a reaction to the addition of more unreliable power sources as there may come a scenario where no one is willing to step up and pay the market price to continue generation and the grid loses inertia as a consequence.


Ensuring a Secure, Reliable and Efficient Power System in a Changing Environment
June 2011

A significant step in understanding the system needs of the future power system was made in June 2010 with the publication of the EirGrid and SONI “Facilitation of Renewables” report. This report augments the results of that study with additional analysis quantifying the level of change required over a range of key operational and plant portfolio metrics. It also considers the implications of the current levels of performance.From this analysis the key challenges and solutions are grouped into four areas:


System Frequency Response

New operational practices are required to ensure system frequency response remains adequate with increasing penetrations of wind. In particular,as the average level of synchronous inertia will potentially fall by 25% in 2020, power imbalances will have a greater impact on the minimum frequency reached and the rate of change of frequency experienced following a disturbance. There will be an increased reliance on fast acting reserve provision from all plant to ensure that system security is not compromised and significant additional curtailment of windfarms is avoided.


Ramping Services

New operational policies are needed to manage the increased variability and uncertainty that wind generation will bring. These policies will need to ensure that there is sufficient ramping capability over multiple time horizons to meet the ramping needs of the system. The effectiveness of these policies will be dependent on the level of controllability of all windfarms, the accuracy of wind forecasts, and the portfolio ramping capability and performance.


Voltage Control

A co-ordinated approach to voltage control across the transmission and distribution systems is required to allow for the changing nature and location of reactive power sources. This approach will need to consider a number of factors: a potential decrease of over 25% on-line synchronous reactive capability; that windfarms reactive capability and their control will be a key requirement to manage voltage; and that the nature of windfarms reactive behaviour during voltage disturbances has implications for the stability of the power system.

Portfolio performance

The current experience is that generators are not reliably meeting the expected performance and capability standards. This creates uncertainty in system service delivery, which manifests itself today in increased costs in the operation of the power system, and in the long run may compromise system security.

source