Greta and the aristocrat sail the high seas to save the planet.

James Brown

mad muffin wrote: »

I don’t believe in human accelerated climate change. I’m sure the earth is going through a climate change. It’s gone through it before and it will keep going through it the earth isn’t static, nor does it exist In a vacuum.

I just look to see what the rich are doing. Normally they’ll be clued in well before us plebs.

And by the looks,of it it’s business as usual for the rich. Still got their fleet of cars. Still got their mansions around the world. Still got their private jets.

Just recently the Obama’s bought a beach side mansion for $15 million. Can’t see anyone concerned with rising sea levels going to buy a beach side mansion.

And what if ignoring it makes them richer than acting on it?
Have no doubt the top folk will remain on top switching from oil when it runs out to likely water but we'll be f***ed by then.

KyussB

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

As expected. Any comments on Naomi Klein and her agreeing this is not about climate change?

She didn't say that, she said it's about climate change in addition to reigniting Keyne's style New Deal politics/economics - since they happen to blend together perfectly.

Pa ElGrande

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Do you or would you vote Green papa grande?

Why would I vote for the party of the urban gentry? Urban constituencies who view rural Ireland as a wilderness that ought to stay that way for their enjoyment. This is a party that banned the bedsit and in 2013 after they were out of power, lots of poor men with problems found themselves sleeping under the stars.

mad muffin

Matt Barrett wrote: »

And what if ignoring it makes them richer than acting on it?
Have no doubt the top folk will remain on top switching from oil when it runs out to likely water but we'll be f***ed by then.

I don’t think they are. They don’t spare a second telling us how we’re ****ed if we don’t act. As they get into their v8 powered luxobarge on their way to their private jet, flying to their luxury mansion in the Bahamas.

Thelonious Monk

That homeless guy at Dail Eireann didn't need to be homeless. Us urban gentry dandies certainly don't view rural Ireland as Wilderness, there is no wilderness in Ireland. It's just one off housing and cows and polluted rivers.

This series of tweets sums up how you guys f*cked up the whole countryside

https://twitter.com/collbradan/status/1166416101997273089

James Brown

mad muffin wrote: »

I don’t think they are. They don’t spare a second telling us how we’re ****ed if we don’t act. As they get into their v8 powered luxobarge on their way to their private jet, flying to their luxury mansion in the Bahamas.

So you'll only take environmental advice from someone who lives in the woods? Fair enough, stick with the oil tycoons and billionaires, they've your best interests at heart

mad muffin

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So you'll only take environmental advice from someone who lives in the woods? Fair enough, stick with the oil tycoons and billionaires, they've your best interests at heart

Oh they already have their snouts in the troughs of the new green deals.

James Brown

mad muffin wrote: »

Oh they already have their snouts in the troughs of the new green deals.

Sorry, was taking you serious. My bad.

gozunda

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

That homeless guy at Dail Eireann didn't need to be homeless. Us urban gentry dandies certainly don't view rural Ireland as Wilderness, there is no wilderness in Ireland. It's just one off housing and cows and polluted rivers. This series of tweets sums up how you guys f*cked up the whole countryside

https://twitter.com/collbradan/status/1166416101997273089

Nah for sure he wanted to be living on the streets- the feking scrounger :mad:

Certainly doesn't stop you lot wanting the entire countryside to be depopulated, agriculture eradicated and replaced with nice little woodlands where you can walk on paved paths to see "boar' and other exotic wildlife frolicking at a distance. God help us that people currently live there and try and earn an income!

It's like for a few - urban areas are some god given paradise where no **** is pumped onto the sea and concrete and tarmac covering every fuking square mile. That comment sure sums up how a few eejits trying to banjax the entire country because god help us they think cows smell or whatever and suggest somehow they are agricultural experts that know everything there is to know ... Sure thing boss.



Oh and btw Irelands grasslands have been recognised as an important carbon sink by the European Environmental Agency. But sure what the fuk would theyv know compared to the resident experts here or some gob****es on twitter ...

mad muffin

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Sorry, was taking you serious. My bad.

Big Oil goes Big Green

Oil companies give billions to climate alarmists, but hardly a dime to climate realists

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/04/big-oil-goes-big-green/

Pa ElGrande

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

That homeless guy at Dail Eireann didn't need to be homeless. Us urban gentry dandies certainly don't view rural Ireland as Wilderness, there is no wilderness in Ireland. It's just one off housing and cows and polluted rivers.

This series of tweets sums up how you guys f*cked up the whole countryside

https://twitter.com/collbradan/status/1166416101997273089

Natural undisturbed woodland in Ireland looks nothing like that picture he has with the bluebells, that is managed wood. Undisturbed woodland is impassible as in you need a machete or bow saw to hack a path through it, such woodland is an absolute swampy mess if you try and traverse it and it can be ghostly quiet and dark. Natural woodland in Ireland is a mix of hazel, oak, blackthorn and ash trees interlaced with fungi, moss, brambles and nettles.

When I first arrived in Ireland, it was to a farm that had not been modernised since the 1950s, electricity was for lights radio and the television (bought for the 1969 moon landing), water was from a well, we used bedpans and there was not even an outhouse toilet. That changed very quickly for the better. I am not a farmer but at the time milking cows was a labour intensive process and there were not that many cattle, I spent several summers in the bog cutting and footing turf and they there was trying to save hay, always a precarious option with our wet weather. Ministers in Brussels decided cheap food was necessary and the subsidies modernised the farm production and created the landscape you see today - no more farm cats falling into the milk and drowning trying to get the cream. Silage made Winter forage harvesting much more reliable and efficient, and the new breeds of cattle need better grass.


In recent years as all the small holders have died off the landscape in my old parish has turned to coniferous forest and Wind Turbines with agriculture activity restricted due to conservation of the hen harriers habitat (a non native species I might add). This is what the countryside is gradually turning into.

Thelonious Monk

No the countryside isn't turning into that, beef and dairy is growing, more and more cattle, no one seems to want to put a limit on numbers. So it's going to get more polluted, and there's going to be less wildlife, and yes maybe the odd turbine and coniferous forest thrown in for good measure.
I don't really care at this stage, Ireland is a lost cause environmentally, but I wish people wouldn't try and say otherwise.

Dr. Bre

Overpopulation is the elephant in the room. Nobody wants to talk about it. How do we decrease it? World wars use to but none recently .

James Brown

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Overpopulation is the elephant in the room. Nobody wants to talk about it. How do we decrease it? World wars use to but none recently .

It's cool thousands are killed every day in oil wars so sure they cancel each other out

gozunda

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

No the countryside isn't turning into that, beef and dairy is growing, more and more cattle, no one seems to want to put a limit on numbers. So it's going to get more polluted, and there's going to be less wildlife, and yes maybe the odd turbine and coniferous forest thrown in for good measure.
I don't really care at this stage, Ireland is a lost cause environmentally, but I wish people wouldn't try and say otherwise.

We have less cattle in the country now than we had in 1973. And thats according to the Central Statistics Office - not some bloke on twitter.

I swear to god if we had a cent for each piece of daft misinformation on agriculture posted in your comments - I could probaly retire.

The thing is - if you bothered to look and took the head out of the clouds - in agricultural areas there's loads of wildlife and even uncultivated land and good strong hedges and ditches coming down with wild plants and invertebrates. But then I suppose none of that really suits the propaganda ...

That said no idea what any of this has got to do with gretas voyage to the new world - other than a soap box for more of the usual. But there you go ...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Pa ElGrande

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

No the countryside isn't turning into that, beef and dairy is growing, more and more cattle, no one seems to want to put a limit on numbers. So it's going to get more polluted, and there's going to be less wildlife, and yes maybe the odd turbine and coniferous forest thrown in for good measure.
I don't really care at this stage, Ireland is a lost cause environmentally, but I wish people wouldn't try and say otherwise.

Most of the Irish countryside has been under human management for hundreds if not thousands of years. Today my old parish has a population around 1,500 people, back before the 1840s potatoe famine it was close on 7,000 people who were nearly all subsistence farmers. You can still see find some of the foundations of the cottages where families with up to 14 children grew up before emigrating to the United States or Britain.

During the 1950s there were no hares in the parish, so the local coursing club that was founded at that time travelled up to Galway and netted the hares and established a breeding program which ran successfully for several decades. However due to fears of liability hunting has been limited over the past 2 decades and greyhound coursing has fallen out of favour, as a consequence the fox population exploded and killed off the hares.

It will take me some effort, I should put together a series of photographs showing the spread of the coniferous forest and the wind turbines across the parish over the past 3 decades. The change is quite noticeable to someone like me who has been away from there for some time.

Almost everything you see in the Irish and English landscape is shaped by man.

Thelonious Monk

Ok can you just tell me if we should limit the amount of cattle on the island? I think it's 9 million now. How many do you think is too many?

Pa ElGrande

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Overpopulation is the elephant in the room. Nobody wants to talk about it. How do we decrease it? World wars use to but none recently .

You forgot famine, disease and pestilence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FACK2knC08E

Pa ElGrande

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Ok can you just tell me if we should limit the amount of cattle on the island? I think it's 9 million now. How many do you think is too many?

Average beef farm loss at €116/ha excluding subsidies – IFAC

On the beef front, some 61% of beef farmers did not make a profit before EU subsidies, according to the report findings.

source

VIEWPOINT – Farming without subsidies – a better way. Why New Zealand agriculture is a world leader.

Uniquely among developed countries, New Zealand farmers are almost totally exposed to world market forces. They receive no subsidies from government and have to compete with subsidised production from other producing countries.

source

Here is the future

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5KfCgyl8kQ

gozunda

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Ok can you just tell me if we should limit the amount of cattle on the island? I think it's 9 million now. How many do you think is too many?

What has your continous obsession with 'how many' (sic) cattle (on practically every thread btw) got to do with gretas voyage to the new world?

Not only repeating the very same question again and again and again - you are now apparently making things up!

According to the CSO there were approx 6.5 million cattle as of December 2018. Down from 2017 and less than 1973 when Ireland joined the EU.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/lsd/livestocksurveydecember2018/

9 million? Did you pull your figures out of the ether with that type of BS figure?

Tell me Thelonious should the biotechnology sector be closed down because they are producing lots of products for export? IT sector? Anything else? No just agriculture? Why is that?

And people wonder why many are pointing out the rubbish and misinformation that is been promoted as the new green wash...

recedite

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Natural undisturbed woodland in Ireland looks nothing like that picture he has with the bluebells, that is managed wood. Undisturbed woodland is impassible as in you need a machete or bow saw to hack a path through it, such woodland is an absolute swampy mess if you try and traverse it and it can be ghostly quiet and dark. Natural woodland in Ireland is a mix of hazel, oak, blackthorn and ash trees interlaced with fungi, moss, brambles and nettles.

I think that photo is quite nice, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder, they say.
What you see there is timber and green renewable electricity being produced in a nice synergy between a wind farm and a tree farm.
While also providing a high quality public amenity space for recreational activities.


BTW there is an ancient woodland near me, and it is oak and bluebells.
The woodland you describe above is not our native ancient woodland, it is what grows up fairly quickly within a generation or two when land is abandoned.

Pa ElGrande

The Ceide fields estimated 5,000 - 6,000 years ago before the climate changed and they got covered in bog.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yACQTWTbE3U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVPUFMwm73Y

Pa ElGrande

recedite wrote: »

BTW there is an ancient woodland near me, and it is oak and bluebells.
The woodland you describe above is not our native ancient woodland, it is what grows up fairly quickly within a generation or two when land is abandoned.

The stuff near me has streams run through it and its maybe been 4 generations or more since the large oaks were cut from it. It was used for coppicing but that has ceased since the end of the 19th century hence the large stand of hazel.

Fr_Dougal

Some sense:

A workplace strike shows company owners and management that workers are able to harm them economically. A school strike, on the other hand, constitutes a form of self-harm, undertaken to attract adult attention. And the global school strike for climate is led by a girl with a long and tragic history of self-harm to her own body.

In Scenes from the Heart, when Greta eventually starts eating again, she only allows herself certain foods. Her mother has to prepare the same food every day for Greta to bring to school and keep in the school refrigerator: pancakes filled with rice. Greta will eat them only if there is no sticker with her name on the container: stickers, paper and newspapers trigger Greta’s OCD against eating.


“I want you to panic. I want you to feel the fear I feel every day,” Greta said when she addressed the world’s leaders in Davos.

Given the child’s history of precisely that—fear and panic—the adult response should perhaps not be “You go, girl” (the words of Madeleine Albright when she was asked what she thinks of Greta’s school strike), but something considerably more cautious.

Greta does not skip classes from just any school, but one for children with special needs. Many other Swedish families fight hard to get their children into such schools, because places are rare. According to the family’s book, however, resources will be ample for such families once we change the system—including, according to Ernman, “patriarchal structures” that she claims favor boys with neuropsychiatric disorders over girls.

I do not wish to suggest that Greta is too young to understand the consequences of her actions, nor that the challenges she faces make her unsuitable to take a stand on political issues, or even to lead a global movement. No one who has heard her address world leaders in impeccable English can doubt that she is very intelligent. Ernman also stresses that her daughter has never felt better than during her campaign for the climate. Greta herself has said that realizing that she could do something about climate change has helped her recover.

I am also not questioning Greta’s role as a public speaker, nor the power of hundreds of thousands of protesting school children, nor that climate change is an existential threat to humankind.

But adults have a moral obligation to remain adults in relation to children and not be carried away by emotions, icons, selfies, images of mass protests, or messianic or revolutionary dreams.

Greta was recently named ”Woman of the Year” by a Swedish newspaper. But she is not a woman, she is a child. It is time we stopped to ask if we are using her, failing her, and even sacrificing her, for what we perceive to be a greater good.

https://quillette.com/2019/04/23/self-harm-versus-the-greater-good-greta-thunberg-and-child-activism/

recedite

The Ceide Fields mountain in Mayo would have been Scots Pine as mentioned in your link. So similar to Caledonian type ancient forest in Scotland.
Whats interesting about that is..

1) The climate change since then - it got colder. So a bit of warming now is no harm in some ways.
2) The real ecological problem they had was caused by human deforestation of the landscape, leading to leaching and iron pans in the soil.


Most of our uplands could and should be replanted now. Bare blanket bog is not their natural state, its an impoverished landscape maintained by people keeping mountain sheep.

Thelonious Monk

So no one will tell me how many cattle is too many for Ireland?

Pa ElGrande

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So no one will tell me how many cattle is too many for Ireland?

What have you got against Hazel the Kerry cow?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAkO08XuyrY

and other cattle breeds like Dexters and Irish Moiled that were once common on small holdings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D5mNIiZQHs

gozunda

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So no one will tell me how many cattle is too many for Ireland?

Not again :rolleyes:

Why are you having trouble sleeping and are counting cows instead of sheep?

You must have missed the many answers already provided to your question all over boards

Heres the most recent one again ...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111163357&postcount=2181

Pa ElGrande

KyussB wrote: »

She didn't say that, she said it's about climate change in addition to reigniting Keyne's style New Deal politics/economics - since they happen to blend together perfectly.

I think it was Keynes one said "The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent". Lets see how long the oil and gas exporter can sustain their electric car subsidies.


Busting The Myth Of The World’s Hottest Electric Car Market

Based on the above, we can see that the annual cost of Norway’s EV support scheme already exceeds the annual cost of Maternity and Paternity leave pay (21.2B NOK) and also exceeds the annual Unemployment Benefit budget (14.2B NOK) and the Child Benefit budget (16.8B NOK). As a matter of fact, if Norway were to convert all its cars to EVs, the country EV budget would become the second largest government expenditure at 198B NOK, only behind the retirement pension budget at 223B NOK. It is worth noting that Norway is running a sizable 20% primary budget deficit (excluding oil revenues) and 7% deficit including oil revenues. Norway’s EV support is already having a material impact on Norway’s finances, the excise duties on cars and petrol have declined by 25.9B NOK in 5 years from 50.7B NOK in 2013 to 24.8B NOK in 2018. If this revenue item had remained constant, Norway’s budget deficit for 2018 would have shrunk to 4.2% from 7%.
<snip>
Norway has pursued its extreme EV support policy due to the seemingly mistaken belief that one can both fight climate change and maintain a car culture. Considering the limits of of today’s personal vehicle technology and the limitations of public finances, the simultaneous pursuit of these two conflicting objectives is perhaps a well-intentioned folly.


source

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So no one will tell me how many cattle is too many for Ireland?

how many people is too many for ireland