Took a while, but the Fruit market Smithfield at last is for development.

gmisk

Mac-Chops wrote: »

Foodhallen in Amsterdam would be another good model and would work well in the area.

Oh that place is amazing!

imme

L1011 wrote: »

Pushed to 2020 I believe.

Haven't heard any timeline, definitely no sign of work ongoing.

imme

Plenty of mention for Cork's English Market.

The English Market is predominantly a market.

The plan for the Dublin Fruit & Veg market says that half the refurbished building will be a food retail market.
Is there business for this in Dublin.
This means premium prices.

There is already the likes of Donnybrook Fair, Fresh, Dollard &Co, and Fallon &Byrne that are providing this premium product.

Will this part work in the location.
A previous poster has said that there are new hotels planned for the area.
Do people staying in hotels buy broccoli or cabbage?

They might be looking for a lunch offer.
Maybe.

Stop moaning ffs

imme wrote: »

Plenty of mention for Cork's English Market.

The English Market is predominantly a market.

The plan for the Dublin Fruit & Veg market says that half the refurbished building will be a food retail market.
Is there business for this in Dublin.
This means premium prices.

There is already the likes of Donnybrook Fair, Fresh, Dollard &Co, and Fallon &Byrne that are providing this premium product.

Will this part work in the location.
A previous poster has said that there are new hotels planned for the area.
Do people staying in hotels buy broccoli or cabbage?

They might be looking for a lunch offer.
Maybe.

The shops you mentioned are definitely pitched to a certain wage bracket.
Even fresh in Smithfield is a good 20% more expensive for basics like milk, than the centra around the corner, the mark up on the rest of their admittedly vast and varied range that you can’t get in centra or Tesco, is prohibitively expensive.

God knows what it’ll be like in the market. Anyone setting up in there would have to take the long view and keep it reasonable if it’s to be viable.

tjc28

I was part of a focus group on this about 6 years ago. Shows how slowly wheels turn to me. What happened with the Iveagh market?

imme

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

The shops you mentioned are definitely pitched to a certain wage bracket.
Even fresh in Smithfield is a good 20% more expensive for basics like milk, than the centra around the corner, the mark up on the rest of their admittedly vast and varied range that you can’t get in centra or Tesco, is prohibitively expensive.

God knows what it’ll be like in the market. Anyone setting up in there would have to take the long view and keep it reasonable if it’s to be viable.

It has to be a premium priced market. It won't be a Tesco Express. That's if they put in a standalone fresh foodstuffs shop.

The alternative is street stall type stalls a la Moore Street. Would customers go out of their way to go to a place off capel street for a few bananas.

So it has to be a premium product if there is to be that element.

Stop moaning ffs

imme wrote: »

It has to be a premium priced market. It won't be a Tesco Express. That's if they put in a standalone fresh foodstuffs shop.

The alternative is street stall type stalls a la Moore Street. Would customers go out of their way to go to a place off capel street for a few bananas.

So it has to be a premium product if there is to be that element.

There isn’t enough of that demographic to keep it sustainable. This will be pitched at tourists primarily I’d say. So loads of coffee shops and variations of same. Stand in Smithfield any evening and it’s riddled with deliveroo lads doing their thing delivering food. Not sure an English market type situation would last long here. If they mixed it up and made it like I mentioned before a spitafelds with clothes shops and furniture shops, whatever, it might get legs. The likes of fallon and Byrne in this market in this location, wouldn’t last long.

Muahahaha

tjc28 wrote: »

I was part of a focus group on this about 6 years ago. Shows how slowly wheels turn to me. What happened with the Iveagh market?

Good question, last I heard was there was a lot of building problems on the site. Not sure if the developer ran out of money to finish it.

HeidiHeidi

Muahahaha wrote: »

Good question, last I heard was there was a lot of building problems on the site. Not sure if the developer ran out of money to finish it.

I don't think the developer ever got started (properly, if at all).


Last I heard, DCC were trying to get control of it back from him.

trellheim

Look at oscars in Smithfield if there was a decent walking route , mary St beside Army Bargains past Smithfield along Marys lane

Also this might be a catalyst for Four Courts LUAS if they make it an easy walk as currently its not really !

But it does need to be upmarket theres a strong axis

Say

Belfry , smithfield, bonobos , markets capel st , thats a good story to tell with frequent buses and LUAS at each end

Also it needs to have a ton of wine bars and restaurants, a shopping food market wont work well except for high-end stuff

petros1980

I don't think a lot of you posters really get what the aim is with the project. It isn't just to create a Fallon and Byrne type fancy grocers; Selling produce for people to take home will be one aspect. But the main focus will be places to eat and drink within the market. It would definitely do well in that regard in terms of workers going to grab a bite for lunch, tourists going for a wander and a snack; and people going for a bite for an hour or so before a night out in town.

Muahahaha

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I don't think the developer ever got started (properly, if at all).


Last I heard, DCC were trying to get control of it back from him.

Yeah the developer Martin Kean began work on it but ran into difficulties and out of money. DCC voted to take back control of it in May 2017. Its been derelict for over 20 years now
https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-city-council-iveagh-markets-3581827-Sep2017/

petros1980 wrote: »

I don't think a lot of you posters really get what the aim is with the project. It isn't just to create a Fallon and Byrne type fancy grocers; Selling produce for people to take home will be one aspect. But the main focus will be places to eat and drink within the market. It would definitely do well in that regard in terms of workers going to grab a bite for lunch, tourists going for a wander and a snack; and people going for a bite for an hour or so before a night out in town.

As well as that it is also a missing in link in an east to west spine running from the Spire all the way to the Phoenix Park. When its done tourists will go from the Spire along Henry St, then the Fruit Market and Jameson distillery, Smithfield Sqaure then Collins Baracks and Muesum then the Phoenix Park. The fruit markets will link Henry St nicely with the Smithfield area.

willabur

If its done right this could be a great success. There is plenty of foot traffic in that space and having an attraction there will only drive it further. As long as they don't pack it with starbucks or Freshi or some other bland chain crap then it has a chance, engage with the local businesses and people and not market it directly to tourists. Do it well enough and the tourists will come anyways

pmcc1

Remember the Paris Bakery?*
That place was doing a roaring trade and was having a transformative effect on the Moore St area 2013/4 before being shut down*
And it was happening totally organically too, no planners, no corpo, just hard work, high quality and good eye for opportunity*.
Nothing has filled the gap Paris Bakery left in the North City Centre, so this Fruit Market plan has a good chance if the planners don't screw it up.

* (yes, yes, they didn't cover themselves in glory after they were closed down)

willabur

pmcc1 wrote: »

Remember the Paris Bakery?*
That place was doing a roaring trade and was having a transformative effect on the Moore St area 2013/4 before being shut down*
And it was happening totally organically too, no planners, no corpo, just hard work, high quality and good eye for opportunity*.
Nothing has filled the gap Paris Bakery left in the North City Centre, so this Fruit Market plan has a good chance if the planners don't screw it up.

* (yes, yes, they didn't cover themselves in glory after they were closed down)

What happened there again? Used to go there quite alot

Spanish Eyes

Wishing it every success, but what will the rates be?

I walk up that road now and then just to see what's going on. It is not that enticing at the moment, looking a bit grim and totally uncared for. IMO.

Just like a lot of places around Dublin now.

DCC and its chief need to get real and do something for this lovely city.

The pavements are carp, the room on the pavements for pedestrians is just so small now.

Anyway. Just a rant. But nothing will be done to sort out the every day person will it?

BeerNut

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

the room on the pavements for pedestrians is just so small now.

It's a lot better without the market traders parking their vehicles on it.

Stop moaning ffs

BeerNut wrote: »

It's a lot better without the market traders parking their vehicles on it.

There’s loads and loads of space on both street access front facing sides of the market. The vans etc won’t be there or presumably will be moved into the new car park right beside it. Was that why that car park was built? It’s the size of a city block. It’s pretty huge.

boombang

RTE's Morning Ireland reporting that compensation for the last group of previous stall holders is up to €5million.

My previous post said this will be expensive. This backs up my concerns.

wakka12

imme wrote: »

I can't see the plan coming off,not that I don't want it to.

I don't see the potential in the area for what they propose.

Apart from that I don't see the impetus from the local authority.

It will end up like the Iveagh Market sadly.

Depends on the quality of the market, if its something worth going to people will make the effort. It may be outside the main retail core but its on the luas line so hardly inaccessible, Belfast's titanic quarter is a bit of a trek on foot from the commercial city centre and is immensely popular for instance

Odyssey 2005

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yeah loads have already moved out with an agreement from DCC. The last 8 are due to move out shortly and then it goes to tender to find an operator. 2 years is the expected total timeline before it opens.

At what cost to taxpayers ?.

Muahahaha

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

At what cost to taxpayers ?.

Fairly significant by the looks of it- €5m shared out from 11 remaining stall owners. Not much the council can do but pay them off, they already held the plans up for two years during negotiations and if agreement wasnt reached then it would have been held up forever really. Its a lot of money but at least all 11 agreed, last thing you'd want is one person purposely holding out for millions.

In any case I'm pretty excited about it after the RTE reports this morning. They said that the site is around 8 times the size of the English Market in Cork and that on completion it will have between 60 and 70 food retail outlets. This is food retailing on a mass scale which will give people tons of choice all under one roof. Id predict this will be a huge attraction for both tourists and locals alike, when complete there simply wont be anything else like it in Dublin and it will attract people from far and wide

Stop moaning ffs

They already have the likes of the shop in the pic there. So the area will get gentrified to within an inch of its life. But it’s better than the current situation

willabur

in fairness its an area that needs gentrification, the footfall will bring it on alot

wakka12

The area needs gentrification badly, it is a dire slumland right in the heart of the city. I dont know how it has escaped two economic booms almost completely

Passenger

Anybody have a link to mock ups/pics if the proposed redevelopment? There's little of note on Google.

Zipppy

I wouldn't hold your breadth for this lads...might take a long time...

imme

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Wishing it every success, but what will the rates be?

I walk up that road now and then just to see what's going on. It is not that enticing at the moment, looking a bit grim and totally uncared for. IMO.

Just like a lot of places around Dublin now.

DCC and its chief need to get real and do something for this lovely city.

The pavements are carp, the room on the pavements for pedestrians is just so small now.

Anyway. Just a rant. But nothing will be done to sort out the every day person will it?

"carp" yes, fish everywhere.

Do you want wider footpaths? Then you'll have less vehicle and road space.

imme

wakka12 wrote: »

The area needs gentrification badly, it is a dire slumland right in the heart of the city. I dont know how it has escaped two economic booms almost completely

Does language mean anything anymore?

The area around the Market is public housing heavy not poor quality cheap housing heavy.
Where's the slum?

imme

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

They already have the likes of the shop in the pic there. So the area will get gentrified to within an inch of its life. But it’s better than the current situation

Lots more wanky shops on the way!

Is there a model that anyone has seen overall for the redevelopment throughout Europe that might work.

The redevelopment of Valetta market could be something to look, there is a major concentration on food however.

I can't see fresh oysters etc going down too well in near-Smithfield.