Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

BluePlanet

You've described complacency BarryD2.
You have become complacent regarding your suppliers.
Economies don't remain the same, they change and you have to move to keep pace with that change.

Kermit.de.frog

Telegraph reporting an old customs post in Lifford has been turned in to a construction site

(paywalled)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/30/fears-rise-hard-border-ireland-brexit-old-customs-post-turned/

prawnsambo

Apparently the whole EU citizens rights in the UK thing is not going so well. The country that brought us Windrush is now embarked on a pretty obvious two-tier system for EU migrants with up to 42% getting 'pre-settled' status instead of settled status.

maynooth_rules

I listen to lbc a little bit, but the comments on their Facebook posts would really make you believe that the UK needs to disastrous hard Brexit as a wake up call for some people. But then again, if that happens the EU would still get blamed.

Thargor

Water John wrote: »

Cummings is the Pied Piper now, Johnson is the puppet and you know what the rest are.

Is he though? I mean everybodys talking about him like he's the sinister puppet master all of a sudden but no puppet master could have orchestrated this sh1tshow. Cameron calling the referendum, May throwing away her majority, the unbelievable aggressive stupidity of every single government minister of a G7 country for the last 3 years etc, you could not plan and execute something like this deliberately.

Water John

He is Pied Piper since entering No 10 as Johnson's Chief Advisor. He really comes off the Bannon playbook.

prawnsambo

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Telegraph reporting an old customs post in Lifford has been turned in to a construction site

(paywalled)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/30/fears-rise-hard-border-ireland-brexit-old-customs-post-turned/

From the photos, it just looks like the site has been fenced off. After it was a customs post it was a department of social protection office and was then demolished as it was deemed to be unsafe. The fencing has gone up recently and the OPW say they have no plans for the site. I'm pretty sure state infrastructure doesn't need planning permission, so there'd be no way to find out afaik.

FrancieBrady

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Telegraph reporting an old customs post in Lifford has been turned in to a construction site

(paywalled)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/30/fears-rise-hard-border-ireland-brexit-old-customs-post-turned/

The reality is they have to prepared for any eventuality. They have been spotted with theodolites etc around the border here too.

Larbre34

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The reality is they have to prepared for any eventuality. They have been spotted with theodolites etc around the border here too.

Waste of time. Any structure on either side of the border wouldn't last a day before being burnt out. And rightly so.

Enzokk

Thargor wrote: »

Is he though? I mean everybodys talking about him like he's the sinister puppet master all of a sudden but no puppet master could have orchestrated this sh1tshow. Cameron calling the referendum, May throwing away her majority, the unbelievable aggressive stupidity of every single government minister of a G7 country for the last 3 years etc, you could not plan and execute something like this deliberately.

Ian Dunt seems to describe the situation well with Cummings,

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1167343302955454464?s=20

'Once upon a time this bloke made up a bunch of lies to win a yes/no referendum on the status quo, in the aftermath of a financial crash and austerity. A genius that does not make.'

We will have to wait and see how this turns out for him but if he is out of a job in No.10 in a few months then what does that make him? On the other hand if the UK has left without a deal and he has orchestrated a Johnson majority election campaign, then he is some evil genius. I don't know though.

Infini

BarryD2 wrote: »

Why? For the same reasons that we've all 'happily' emigrated to the UK for decades/ centuries. We speak the same language, whether we like it or not and we have broadly similar cultures. We understand each other better and the UK is closer.

Generally happy to spend a week on holidays in France or Italy but no wish to start doing business there. Yes that's an insular attitude you may say but you know, we do live on an island. Better the divil you know etc etc.

On top of all this, we are increasingly lectured about our carbon responsibilities, so it's make more sense to do business in Ire and UK, rather than the European & global shipping solutions that people champion here.

Look to be honest the simple truth is that while it's more convenient and maybe more comfortable dealing with distrubuters and such in the UK the one core point to remember is this: Britain is less at fault rather it's British POLITICS that are to blame and unfortunately because of this your business partners will be left in a compromised position or risk being buried altogether by the idiocy of the conservatives and DUP.

Unfortunately the reality is that if there's a crash out these businesses you deal with will be by no fault of their own be on the wrong side of the fence thanks to Boris and co ruining their country and the only realistic option at this point is start looking at alternatives rather than just simply pass costs on because what will happen is if your costs rise then other competitors or customers begin looking for alternatives and if they find someone cheaper thats when the trouble begins. Lets not forget that there's reports buisnesses are being too slow to adjust in part because till now noone knows if they (UK) have been serious about such a disastrous crash out.

Remember when they crash out it's essentially all trade deals being invalidated all at once. This mean's immediate tariffs and customs charges being implimented that risks making your business nonviable so quickly that the reports of a hard border predicts some going under in 72 hours of Brexit. The real problem in all of this is that no matter how much we try to predict this there is no real world instance of an event of such stupidity happening we honestly cannot predict how much collateral damage this can cause because it's only when the little things begin colliding with one another and piling up that we see how damaging this will be.

We might be neighbours with Britain but remember history, the worst of them have come out of the woodwork in the form of the toxic media rags of the Telegraph, Daily Mail, UK sun and Express, we have deliberate misinformation campaigns on social media polluting the narrative and we got the conservative party that's been poisoned by the likes of Mogg's and his European Troll Group and Boris being the opportunist he is. These people are the ignorant or utter arrogant kind who have no trouble in the past of thinking to strongarm Ireland into a position favourable to themselves.

The reason we joined the EU all those years ago was to be able to diverse ourselves away from them and now we're in a position where we no longer have to accept that kind of carryon where unlike in the past where those running Britain could push Ireland around because they were bigger its now a case of if they intend to push such damage at us, now we can turn around and basically say "We don't have to put up with that, oh and by the way my 26 other friends over there aint impressed with your carry-on either".

If they're intent on wrecking themselves we're not dependent on them we have a market of 26 other countries to draw help on if we need them, we're resourceful and can work around the problems but we don't have to be dragged down by Britain if they implode in their crowning moment of idiocy.

ToBeFrank123

Imreoir2 wrote: »

We have a responsibility to protect the integrity of the single market, just like all the other members, tell the EU to go jump and we are destabelising the bedrock of our own economey and putting our place in the EU at risk.

Yes so long as we appease our European superiors that is the main thing.

Pleasing Angela is far more important than allowing our own people freely cross back and forth.

Nonsense.

Too many people willing to bend over backwards to please the EU. I for one am getting sick of it.

54and56

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Even with a hard brexit it will take months if not years for customs posts to get up and running.

If the EU insists on us putting them up at the border we should just tell them to go jump.

Impossible to fully police a border anyways.

As a full EU member it's our duty to protect the Single Market at our border. The "EU" aren't forcing us to do that, we signed up to it and we'll do it because being part of the Single Market is central to our economy.

If we can't or won't secure our own border to protect the Single Market we won't be in it for much longer.

Imreoir2

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Yes so long as we appease our European superiors that is the main thing.

Pleasing Angela is far more important than allowing our own people freely cross back and forth.

Nonsense.

Too many people willing to bend over backwards to please the EU. I for one am getting sick of it.

I don't really care what you are getting sick of, our fundemental economic interests require that we remain in the EU. Like it or lump it, we are staying in the EU.

ath262

prawnsambo wrote: »

The brexit secretary ladies and gentlemen. The delusion is strong in this one.

this guy is incredible, either disillusional, dim or not paying attention for the last 3 years - there will be no mini-deals, next step is agree the WA and discuss the future relationship OR UK is headed for a no deal-brexit

Capt'n Midnight

Balanadan wrote: »

Looks like the Brextremists are talking about Ireland leaving the EU and re-joining them. ****in' hell

In Ireland we have transferable votes. So unlike the UK you don't waste your vote.

There are hundreds of thousands of UK citizens living here entitled to vote any which way.

The official Irexit candidate Hermann Kelly was editor of the Irish Catholic so should presumably have attracted some of the one third of voters who voted against the eight amendment.

He was also a journalist on Irish and UK national papers so not an unknown.


In the EU elections despite all the above he only got 2,441 first preference votes out of an electorate of 884,118.


That's the mandate for Irexit.

Infini

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Yes so long as we appease our European superiors that is the main thing.

Pleasing Angela is far more important than allowing our own people freely cross back and forth.

Nonsense.

Too many people willing to bend over backwards to please the EU. I for one am getting sick of it.

Better to work with those who at least will respect you and work fairly with you than be tied to a country with a democratic deficit run by idiots, ideologues and chancers who have no problem screwing Ireland over when they get the chance. Remember these are the ones who made statements like "Starving Ireland" till they get their own way (ignorant of the fact we produce more food than we need while they're FAR short of meeting their domestic demands!).

If there's anything to be sick of it's hearing faulty arguments like "pleasing the EU" or "Pleasing Angela" with complete and utter ignorance of exactly HOW the EU works. It's essentially the "I dont like this because I dont like it" excuse, it's hollow reasoning, its emotive and it's empty of any factual reasoning as to WHY you don't like it. The EU has been vastly better to Ireland over the year's far better than Britain ever and it's better to be part of a union with those who value respect and reason over a "union" that's falling apart and being run by ignorance, stupidity, arrogance and incompetence.

ToBeFrank123

Imreoir2 wrote: »

I don't really care what you are getting sick of, our fundemental economic interests require that we remain in the EU. Like it or lump it, we are staying in the EU.

Where did I say leave the EU?

Putting up border posts on the border, deal or no deal, would be idiotic and economic suicide for most of this country.

Try suggesting putting a border between two German states and see how far you get....now-where.

Imreoir2

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Where did I say leave the EU?

Putting up border posts on the border, deal or no deal, would be idiotic and economic suicide for most of this country.

Try suggesting putting a border between two German states and see how far you get....now-where.

Putting up a border would be less than ideal, but far from economic suicide if you care to have a look at the actual economic data. Trade with NI is not a significant part of our economey. Trade is not the primary reason to avoid a border, peace is. In a no-deal scenario, we will be left with little choice by the UK other than to control the border. If the people of NI truely want there to be no border, then they will have to consider their options and ask if remaining in the UK is in ther interests.

BluePlanet

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Where did I say leave the EU?

Putting up border posts on the border, deal or no deal, would be idiotic and economic suicide for most of this country.

Try suggesting putting a border between two German states and see how far you get....now-where.

I'm not sure you are being genuine.
We have to protect the Single Market, and it's regulations regarding food safety.
If some chlorinated chicken or hormone injected beef enter this state via the NI border, and from here find it's way into Europe then we will be in some serious trouble. It could result in other EU countries not trusting Irish agri-produce and placing checks on our stuff, putting Irish products in the 'slow lane' and hurting our ability to export to our largest market - the EU.

THAT is economic suicide.

ToBeFrank123

The idiocy knows no bounds.

First you have people supporting a backstop that was never going to get through the House of Commons. It was right up there with believing in the toothfairy to believe it would get through.

The backstop is pretty much dead.

If the EU don't budge its a no deal and economic damage for Ireland. In that situation to put up border posts almost immediately as a few on here have advocated would kill the Irish ecocomy and send us into immiediate recession.

But hey keep the idiocy going.

And some responses on here prove to me its Angela and co who run this country, not Varadkar.

Capt'n Midnight

VinLieger wrote: »

Just cant help but think he has to be alienating the entire civil service with his draconian behaviour

Not forgetting the US ambassador either.

They are hamstringing their best assets.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/0531/967284-border-poll/

The Tánaiste said from his experience, the British civil service was arguably the best in the world, but that it needed political direction in terms of making progress on the very complex set of issues linked to Brexit.

lawred2

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The idiocy knows no bounds.

First you have people supporting a backstop that was never going to get through the House of Commons. It was right up there with believing in the toothfairy to believe it would get through.

The backstop is pretty much dead.

If the EU don't budge its a no deal and economic damage for Ireland. In that situation to put up border posts almost immediately as a few on here have advocated would kill the Irish ecocomy and send us into immiediate recession.

But hey keep the idiocy going.

And some responses on here prove to me its Angela and co who run this country, not Varadkar.

What do you propose?

boggerman1

ath262 wrote: »

this guy is incredible, either disillusional, dim or not paying attention for the last 3 years - there will be no mini-deals, next step is agree the WA and discuss the future relationship OR UK is headed for a no deal-brexit

Are they all just swallowing the crap out of Cummings and spouting it in public.its like as if the past 3 yrs has never happened and the negotiations are just starting.kick them out @ Halloween or before if possible.

Imreoir2

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The idiocy knows no bounds.

First you have people supporting a backstop that was never going to get through the House of Commons. It was right up there with believing in the toothfairy to believe it would get through.

The backstop is pretty much dead.

If the EU don't budge its a no deal and economic damage for Ireland. In that situation to put up border posts immiediately would kill the Irish ecocomy and send us into immiediate recession.

But hey keep the idiocy going.

And some responses on here prove to me its Angela and co who run this country, not Varadkar.

All you are doing is spouting nonsence and calling other people idiots. A border will not do any significant damage to Irelands economey, trade with NI is peanuts compared to trade with the rest of the EU. Calling it "economic suicide" is simply wrong. It would not "kill the Irish economey", where are you getting your information from? It's still not something we want to do, but it is certainly something we could do if forced to do so by the UK.

L1011

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The idiocy knows no bounds.

First you have people supporting a backstop that was never going to get through the House of Commons. It was right up there with believing in the toothfairy to believe it would get through.

The backstop is pretty much dead.

If the EU don't budge its a no deal and economic damage for Ireland. In that situation to put up border posts almost immediately as a few on here have advocated would kill the Irish ecocomy and send us into immiediate recession.

But hey keep the idiocy going.

And some responses on here prove to me its Angela and co who run this country, not Varadkar.

The backstop was proposed by the British Government. It wasn't something suggested externally

What, precisely, are you proposing as an alternative?

ToBeFrank123

BluePlanet wrote: »

I'm not sure you are being genuine.
We have to protect the Single Market, and it's regulations regarding food safety.
If some chlorinated chicken or hormone injected beef enter this state via the NI border, and from here find it's way into Europe then we will be in some serious trouble. It could result in other EU countries not trusting Irish agri-produce and placing checks on our stuff, putting Irish products in the 'slow lane' and hurting our ability to export to our largest market - the EU.

THAT is economic suicide.

Nope. We go toe to toe with the Germans for a change and tell them to cop on, that we're not dividing our country.

Calina

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Yes so long as we appease our European superiors that is the main thing.

Pleasing Angela is far more important than allowing our own people freely cross back and forth.

Nonsense.

Too many people willing to bend over backwards to please the EU. I for one am getting sick of it.

It's not about aopeasing Angela. It is about protecting our economic success. I am sick of people like you suggesting we should just let the UK, which is mainly England tbh, stomp all over us.

In Brussels we have a place at the table. In London at best we would be a doormat.

ToBeFrank123

L1011 wrote: »

The backstop was proposed by the British Government. It wasn't something suggested externally

What, precisely, are you proposing as an alternative?

Proposed by lame Duck Theresa May and with no mandate.

Its amazing how few people understand why tge backstop was never going to get through the HOC.

May could have proposed anything but unless it passed the HOC it was useless. But still people cling to the failed backstop.

Its dead, move on.

What alternative do you propose?

Imreoir2

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Nope. We go toe to toe with the Germans for a change and tell them to cop on, that we're not dividing our country.

In case it escaped your notice, our country is divided. The north eastern corner is under British rule, and that is not Germanys fault. Going toe to toe with the Germans for some reason does not resolve any of the issues Brexit creates. You don't seem to care that isolating ourselves from the single market would be massivly damaging to our economey, but it would. You have not proposed any workable alternatives, only made wildly innacurate claims and false assertions.