Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

Imreoir2

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Proposed by lame Duck Theresa May and with no mandate.

Its amazing how few people understand why tge backstop was never going to get through the HOC.

May could have proposed anything but unless it passed the HOC it was useless. But still people cling to the failed backstop.

Its dead, move on.

What alternative do you propose?

There is no workable alternative to the backstop that I am aware of, at least not as long as the UK maintains its red lines. Either the UK backs down or it is no-deal. Given that no-deal is akin to the UK being set on fire, I don't think it will be long before they come back to the table and adjust their attitude to the backstop.

ToBeFrank123

Imreoir2 wrote: »

All you are doing is spouting nonsence and calling other people idiots. A border will not do any significant damage to Irelands economey, trade with NI is peanuts compared to trade with the rest of the EU. Calling it "economic suicide" is simply wrong. It would not "kill the Irish economey", where are you getting your information from? It's still not something we want to do, but it is certainly something we could do if forced to do so by the UK.

Try telling that to people who commute across the border daily.

Throwing your fellow Irish man under the bus, great solution.

This mess is of the EU and UKs making. Leave them at it. But throwing up border posts and inconviencing our own people so we can please the EU is rash and foolish.

54and56

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The idiocy knows no bounds.

First you have people supporting a backstop that was never going to get through the House of Commons. It was right up there with believing in the toothfairy to believe it would get through.

So why did the UK Govt propose it?

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

If the EU don't budge its a no deal and economic damage for Ireland. In that situation to put up border posts almost immediately as a few on here have advocated would kill the Irish ecocomy and send us into immiediate recession.

But hey keep the idiocy going.

A deal was entered into between the UK Govt and the EU27. The UK haven't been able to deliver their end of the deal and are now throwing their toys out the pram like a spoilt child who orders a strawberry ice cream, gets a strawberry ice cream but then decides it wants a chocolate ice cream and starts screaming and shouting blaming everyone else that he doesn't want a strawberry ice cream and if someone doesn't give him a chocolate ice cream ASAP he's going to soil himself and sit in it for years.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

And some responses on here prove to me its Angela and co who run this country, not Varadkar.

Sounds like the burden of proof standard you employ to arrive at your conclusions is kindergarten level.

VinLieger

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Nope. We go toe to toe with the Germans for a change and tell them to cop on, that we're not dividing our country.

The UK divided our country 100 years ago and are out to do it again.

Maintaining our security in the single market is absolutely integral to a United Ireland ever happening and us being able to anywhere near afford it.

ToBeFrank123

54and56 wrote: »

So why did the UK Govt propose it?



A deal was entered into between the UK Govt and the EU27. The UK haven't been able to deliver their end of the deal and are now throwing their toys out the pram like a spoilt child who orders a strawberry ice cream, gets a strawberry ice cream but then decides it wants a chocolate ice cream and starts screaming and shouting blaming everyone else that he doesn't want a strawberry ice cream and if someone doesn't give him a chocolate ice cream ASAP he's going to soil himself and sit in it for years.



Sounds like the burden of proof standard you employ to arrive at your conclusions is kindergarten level.

The backstop is dead. It doesn't matter who proposed it. It was repeatedly voted down in the HOC including by Labour, Jeremy Corbyn and most of the opposition.

Imreoir2

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Try telling that to people who commute across the border daily.

Throwing your fellow Irish man under the bus, great solution.

This mess is of the EU and UKs making. Leave them at it. But throwing up border posts and inconviencing our own people so we can please the EU is rash and foolish.

Again, membership of the Single Market is a vital national interest, what part of that do you not get? Border posts annoying some people is not ideal, but it is not in the same league as wrecking the natioanl economey.

Brexit is a mess of the UKs making, they did not need the EUs help to s**t the bed on that one.

ToBeFrank123

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Again, membership of the Single Market is a vital national interest, what part of that do you not get? Border posts annoying some people is not ideal, but it is not in the same league as wrecking the natioanl economey.

Brexit is a mess of the UKs making, they did not need the EUs help to s**t the bed on that one.

Let the EU and UK sort it out. Their problem.

They will eventually.

They won't if we offer to put up border posts.

Imreoir2

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The backstop is dead. It doesn't matter who proposed it. It was repeatedly voted down in the HOC including by Labour, Jeremy Corbyn and most of the opposition.

So what? The HOC can vote to make the sky pink if they like, it does not have the power to alter reality and the reality is that the UK needs a deal and a deal will include the backstop. They can vote against it all they like, but eventually they will have to grit their teeth and bear it or watch their economey and probably their country fall apart.

ToBeFrank123

VinLieger wrote: »

The UK divided our country 100 years ago and are out to do it again.

Maintaining our security in the single market is absolutely integral to a United Ireland ever happening and us being able to anywhere near afford it.

So putting up border posts is vital to a United Ireland?

No its not. Border posts will set back that cause by decades. In fact the DUP would love to see border posts.

54and56

prawnsambo wrote: »

The brexit secretary ladies and gentlemen. The delusion is strong in this one.

He really doesn't come across as very sharp, I'd say it's a toss up between himself and Raab to be the chief useful idiot in the cabinet.

Strazdas

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Nope. We go toe to toe with the Germans for a change and tell them to cop on, that we're not dividing our country.

Merkel is popular and respected in Ireland. What are you talking about? You are giving us some Daily Express version of Irish-EU relations.

ToBeFrank123

Imreoir2 wrote: »

So what? The HOC can vote to make the sky pink if they like, it does not have the power to alter reality and the reality is that the UK needs a deal and a deal will include the backstop. They can vote against it all they like, but eventually they will have to grit their teeth and bear it or watch their economey and probably their country fall apart.

We will soon see. As it stands the UK are committed to leaving on 31st October. My take is Johnson won't compromise on that otherwise he'll be seen in the same light as May.

You also don't understand that the HOC has been taken out of the picture by Johnson. They are in no position to vote on anything.

Imreoir2

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Let the EU and UK sort it out. Their problem.

They will eventually.

They won't if we offer to put up border posts.

We are the EU. Our border is the EUs border. Our choice in a no-deal scenario is to control the border or leave the Single Market, one is unfortunate the other is national self-destruction. It is no-choice at all. We will not be leaving the single market.

The only sure way to prevent a hard border in a no-deal scenario is for NI to vote to rejoin the rest of Ireland. If they choose to stick with the UK knowing the consequences of that choice, then a hard border is as much their fault as it is the UKs.

Infini

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

So putting up border posts is vital to a United Ireland?

No its not. Border posts will set back that cause by decades. In fact the DUP would love to see border posts.

Actually the border itself would only be temporary because the economic ruin caused by British idiocy and DUP incompetence will drastically accelerate a United Ireland by the "look at how better things are here" approach and basically evicerating the DUP by hammering every hollow argument and statement they make with facts and how they facilitate that disaster.

lawred2

There is only one Nation who is and continues to be responsible for partition in this island.

Anyone suggesting that a border on this island is something of our doing is Mod - "incorrect"

54and56

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The official Irexit candidate Hermann Kelly was editor of the Irish Catholic so should presumably have attracted some of the one third of voters who voted against the eight amendment.

He was also a journalist on Irish and UK national papers so not an unknown.


In the EU elections despite all the above he only got 2,441 first preference votes out of an electorate of 884,118.


That's the mandate for Irexit.

That's less than 0.3% of the voting population or to put it another way, 99.7% of voters don't support Irexit.

I'm guessing ToBeFrank123 is one of the 0.3%

firemansam4

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Let the EU and UK sort it out. Their problem.

They will eventually.

They won't if we offer to put up border posts.

In case you didn't realise, we are the EU...

L1011

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Proposed by lame Duck Theresa May and with no mandate.

Its amazing how few people understand why tge backstop was never going to get through the HOC.

May could have proposed anything but unless it passed the HOC it was useless. But still people cling to the failed backstop.

Its dead, move on.

What alternative do you propose?

So you haven't got one then?

Zubeneschamali

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

But still people cling to the failed backstop. Its dead, move on. What alternative do you propose?

No deal. Nothing. No mini deals.

Then wait for England to come crawling back looking for a free trade agreement.

Present the WA without transition, wait for them to sign. Wait 25 years if necessary.

54and56

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Nope. We go toe to toe with the Germans for a change and tell them to cop on, that we're not dividing our country.

How are we dividing the RoI exactly? Where is this new border being drawn?

Or are you referring to the British border in Ireland imposed by the country you propose we throw our lot in with instead of the EU who 97.3% of voters want us to stick with?

54and56

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Proposed by lame Duck Theresa May and with no mandate.

Its amazing how few people understand why tge backstop was never going to get through the HOC.

May could have proposed anything but unless it passed the HOC it was useless. But still people cling to the failed backstop.

Its dead, move on.

What alternative do you propose?

You are seriously deluded my friend. May called an election and returned as PM.

She actually had a mandate.

What mandate does BoJo have?

ToBeFrank123

lawred2 wrote: »

There is only one Nation who is and continues to be responsible for partition in this island.

Anyone suggesting that a border on this island is something of our doing is a troll.

Do you actually know who proposed and who voted against the backstop?

Theresa May proposed it. Corbyn voted against.

If he and most of Labour voted for it, happy days, WA would have passed.

So if you want to point fingers you could start with him. Johnson certainly wouldn't be leader now if he'd supported it. Like others he wasn't happy with the deal including the backstop. Pity that.

Did I suggest the border was of our doing?

declanflynn

lawred2 wrote: »

There is only one Nation who is and continues to be responsible for partition in this island.

Anyone suggesting that a border on this island is something of our doing is a troll.

Theres still a chance that nation will put a border down the Irish sea, after all it would only upset athe airheads in the dup most of England couldn't care less about the dup

54and56

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The backstop is dead. It doesn't matter who proposed it. It was repeatedly voted down in the HOC including by Labour, Jeremy Corbyn and most of the opposition.

Fine so come up with workable alternatives? The EU and Ireland have been absolutely open to the UK proposing an alternative which is workable and can be implemented NOW but thus far no such proposal has been made by the UK and their own Civil Service have estimated it will take 10 years for the currently identified "Alternative Arrangements" to be implemented.

declanflynn

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

But still people cling to the failed backstop. Its dead, move on. What alternative do you propose?

No deal. Nothing. No mini deals.

Then wait for England to come crawling back looking for a free trade agreement.

Present the WA without transition, wait for them to sign. Wait 25 years if necessary.

Yep agree fully, it would be great if the Irish government could say stuff like dis, I bet they want to

54and56

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

We will soon see. As it stands the UK are committed to leaving on 31st October. My take is Johnson won't compromise on that otherwise he'll be seen in the same light as May.

You also don't understand that the HOC has been taken out of the picture by Johnson. They are in no position to vote on anything.

Johnson might be able to bully and sideline the HoC but he won't bully the EU and we are part of the EU.

ToBeFrank123

54and56 wrote: »

That's less than 0.3% of the voting population or to put it another way, 99.7% of voters don't support Irexit.

I'm guessing ToBeFrank123 is one of the 0.3%

What on earth are you talking about?

This thread has gone a bit bizarre.

There are people saying they are against a border but have no problem with border posts going up because that's what the EU want.

As for Irexit, I'm not in favour. I am in favour of standing up for ourselves in Europe, and in that I seem to be the only one around here.

One popular view I've read here is that we stick up border posts, hope the Northern economy tanks and then they coming running to us.

Wishing misery on the North, great idea.

There's very little appetite now or for at least 50 years for a United Ireland particularly in the North. I can't see a group like the DUP ever being in favour.

ToBeFrank123

54and56 wrote: »

Johnson might be able to bully and sideline the HoC but he won't bully the EU and we are part of the EU.

Ah back to the old bullying accusations that have served us so well lately.

54and56

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

There are people saying they are against a border but have no problem with border posts going up because that's what the EU want.

No, people are not saying that. They/we are saying that Ireland will (and wants to) protect the integrity of the Single Market and to do that we have to secure our borders. If we don't we can't be members. Why is that so hard for you to understand? No one wants to to put up a border but we're not giving up our membership of the Single Market just because BoJo & co decide to implement a reckless hard version of Brexit.

ToBeFrank123

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

No deal. Nothing. No mini deals.

Then wait for England to come crawling back looking for a free trade agreement.

Present the WA without transition, wait for them to sign. Wait 25 years if necessary.

I don't think they'll care in 25 years.