Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

VinLieger

Headshot wrote: »

The recent Welsh by election should be the blue print for how the remaining parties need to work together and make sure that other remaining parties do not dilute the votes.

I just couldnt see the likes of the Conservatives or the Brexit party doing this and therefor their votes will be weakended

Farage has suggested it however I can't see the tories agreeing or the brexit party being competant or level headed enough to not screw it up on day one

Spanish Eyes

There is far too much complacency on the Remain side. They should be manning the barricades and blocking roads etc. at this travesty of democracy (prorogation).

Their lack of fight back is enabling the current sh it storm by Cummings et al.

What are they afraid of?

woejus

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

If there was a General Erection surely ....

Is that a 2nd Referendum in your pants, or are you just glad to see me...

Mirafiori

VinLieger wrote: »

Farage has suggested it however I can't see the tories agreeing or the brexit party being competant or level headed enough to not screw it up on day one

I could see the Brexit Party volunteering not to run candidates against pro-brexit Conservative MPs. I can't see the Conservatives opting to give the Brexit party a clear run in any constituency, even strong Labour seats where the Labour MP is anti-Brexit. It would be very damaging to any local organisation, and it should be a principle that a prospective government would run a candidate in every constituency.

Funnily enough, though, the main parties never run candidates in Northern Ireland. Maybe the Brexit party could run some candidates there.

sabat

is_that_so wrote: »

It actually originally goes back to the 1920s, it's reciprocal, so that's very doubtful. Johnson has said it will not change. A memorandum of understanding was signed in May this year.

Not least because there are still hundreds of (Irish) people here who were born in the UK as it was then. Yet another legal circle that can't be squared...

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

Next thing for the chop is the CTA no doubt. I don't believe that anything is sacrosanct for this lot any more.

No Chance, the Irish are not considered as "foreigners" by most people in Britain, they are just like the Scots or the Welsh (from another part of the UK).

lawred2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No Chance, the Irish are not considered as "foreigners" by most people in Britain, they are just like the Scots or the Welsh (from another part of the UK).

Yeah but we've been very uppity of late. Maybe we need a smackdown.

FrancieBrady

UUP trying to steal some ground of the DUP. Still sounds like 'trust us' to me.

A former Ulster Unionist Party leader has proposed the creation of a new North-South ministerial body as a means of monitoring and regulating trade across the Border after Brexit.

Lord (Reg) Empey has also proposed as an alternative to the backstop that the British government would indemnify the European Union against single market infractions.

He further proposed the creation of a new offence in British law for knowingly transporting non-compliant goods to the EU.

Lord Empey said he was putting forward the proposals in good faith in a bid to break the stalemate over the backstop.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-uup-suggests-proposals-to-replace-irish-backstop-1.4004058?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&fbclid=IwAR0jfBeHp6vOlM3mN8CBSTMbie0GAc7LLVBUE5udvEm0gF_MdWY7mFmpUZg

prawnsambo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

UUP trying to steal some ground of the DUP. Still sounds like 'trust us' to me.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-uup-suggests-proposals-to-replace-irish-backstop-1.4004058?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&fbclid=IwAR0jfBeHp6vOlM3mN8CBSTMbie0GAc7LLVBUE5udvEm0gF_MdWY7mFmpUZg

Mad how they still don't understand what they're dealing with. Everything would be a single market infraction.

Akrasia

is_that_so wrote: »

Sure it was advisory and of no real legal standing but what government was ever going to go against it.

It would have been very easy to question the legitimacy of that vote given the illegal campaigning of the two main anti EU campaigns. The biggest political donation in UK history bring under investigation as coming from an illegal source is a good place to start....

The leave campaign was full of lies and misinformation so the referendum vote should not be considered proper informed consent and should have been rerun

Strazdas

Akrasia wrote: »

It would have been very easy to question the legitimacy of that vote given the illegal campaigning of the two main anti EU campaigns. The biggest political donation in UK history bring under investigation as coming from an illegal source is a good place to start....

The leave campaign was full of lies and misinformation so the referendum vote should not be considered proper informed consent and should have been rerun

It's a pity the referendum wasn't binding. The courts would have thrown out the result for the numerous illegalities - the right wing press would have reacted with apoplectic rage to this of course, but the whole process would have been moved on.

bilston

Johnson telling Tory MPs tonight they will be deselected if they don't back the government in any vote.

He is out of control.

An Ciarraioch

Rory Stewart's reaction was notable:

https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1168266343793221632

briany

I believe Dominic Grieve has already been threatened with deselection by his local constituency. Given his relative outspokenness on Brexit, his chances of holding his seat are pretty low, so he doesn't have much to lose by voting his conscience.

First Up

briany wrote:

I believe Dominic Grieve has already been threatened with deselection by his local constituency. Given his relative outspokenness on Brexit, his chances of holding his seat are pretty low, so he doesn't have much to lose by voting his conscience.

He has been saying this for a while.

Spanish Eyes

That fella Rory Stewart is something else. He had an interview with James O'Brien on the Full Disclosure podcast and I confess I hung on to his every word.

He will go far. But it may take a while.

Spanish Eyes

Tories who are deselected could stand as Independent Tories surely?

Well they should try anyway.

ath262

what does the deselection threat achieve for Boris in the short term, i.e. between now and 31st Oct ?

I suspect these potential Conservative rebels have already factored in any risk to their re-election or deselection in their own constituencies based on Brexit support and all deselection does is drive them to the opposition side until there's a general election

Headshot

By deselecting them, he's majority will be gone in Parliament

lawred2

Headshot wrote: »

By deselecting them, he's majority will be gone in Parliament

It's just another variant of "stop or I'll shoot myself in the head"

Strazdas

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That fella Rory Stewart is something else. He had an interview with James O'Brien on the Full Disclosure podcast and I confess I hung on to his every word.

He will go far. But it may take a while.

He's in the wrong party. He's way too sensible and moderate to be a Tory.

Tikki Wang Wang

Strazdas wrote: »

He's in the wrong party. He's way too sensible and moderate to be a Tory.

He should be leading the LibDems

maebee

Boris is unable to stop the leaks from disgruntled Tory MPs.

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-crisis-govt-analysis-suggests-chaos-at-dover-in-event-of-no-deal-departure-11800263

This report was compiled over the last fortnight and its assumptions are based around current government policy.

The government refused to comment.

ThePanjandrum

ath262 wrote: »

what does the deselection threat achieve for Boris in the short term, i.e. between now and 31st Oct ?

I suspect these potential Conservative rebels have already factored in any risk to their re-election or deselection in their own constituencies based on Brexit support and all deselection does is drive them to the opposition side until there's a general election

Probably not. Under the old regime they were protected. Broxtowe Constituency was not even allowed to consider deselectiong her and other rebels like Nick Boles was allowed to resign from his local constituency so that they could not deselect him but retain his seat and his Conservative Party membership.

ThePanjandrum

maebee wrote: »

Boris is unable to stop the leaks from disgruntled Tory MPs.

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-crisis-govt-analysis-suggests-chaos-at-dover-in-event-of-no-deal-departure-11800263

I'm taking that with a pinch of salt.. Sky News is notorious for its rabid anti-Brexit line and the last I heard, the Government were prepared to wave lorries through if necessary.

None of our hauliers has expressed any concern at present.

ThePanjandrum

Strazdas wrote: »

He's in the wrong party. He's way too sensible and moderate to be a Tory.

Rory Stewart (old Etonian) is great at talking but that's pretty well it. You wouldn't want him to look after your pet hamster while you were away on holiday if you valued its life.

Water John

Parliament can arrest and imprison the PM if he refuses to implement their ruling/law. They have their own Sergeant at Arms and prison, I think.

johnnyskeleton

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

I'm taking that with a pinch of salt.. Sky News is notorious for its rabid anti-Brexit line and the last I heard, the Government were prepared to wave lorries through if necessary.

None of our hauliers has expressed any concern at present.

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Rory Stewart (old Etonian) is great at talking but that's pretty well it. You wouldn't want him to look after your pet hamster while you were away on holiday if you valued its life.

Mod note:

By all means provide detailed and specific rebuttals of the commentary by a news organisation or the policies of a politician. But making vague and unsubstantiated swipes at them is not serious political discussion

Enzokk

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

I'm taking that with a pinch of salt.. Sky News is notorious for its rabid anti-Brexit line and the last I heard, the Government were prepared to wave lorries through if necessary.

None of our hauliers has expressed any concern at present.

And how are you waving Lorries through to France when the stoppage will be at Calais? If I have it correct the vehicles will be checked in France and thus there will be a wait for ferries to be offloaded, which means ferries cannot be loaded or leave the UK. So the problem is not waving them through in Dover, it is having to wait for them to clear in France before they leave the UK.

As for the hauliers not reporting any concern,

Rod McKenzie, managing director of policy and public affairs at the Road Haulage Association, told Sky News: "The sort of delays that Sky News is reporting at the moment would be crippling to many sections of the British industry and the supply chain on which we all depend.

"For example the things that we get in the shops, perishables, foods and so forth, we simply cannot afford to have them sitting in a traffic jam for 48 hours.

"And the same is true for Britain's manufacturing industry and so many parts of the economy. We must keep any delay to an absolute minimum to try and keep the short straights, Dover, Calais and all the other ports working as efficiently as possible to ensure our economic future."

As for the Brexit Party, the problem Johnson has is that they will only back them in a pact if they go for no-deal. If it looks like they will pivot to the WA, as many have said he would, then they will oppose him. Even if he gets it through somehow and calls an election, Farage will run against him on a ticket that he has betrayed the electorate and it isn't really Brexit.

The Withdrawal Agreement is exiting the EU in law, but it doesn't end Brexit. They will still be talking about Brexit for at least the transition and probably longer.

maebee

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

I'm taking that with a pinch of salt.. Sky News is notorious for its rabid anti-Brexit line and the last I heard, the Government were prepared to wave lorries through if necessary.

None of our hauliers has expressed any concern at present.

It doesn't matter which news outlet it was obtained by. The fact is that it is an analysis by Boris Johnson's government.