Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

Stop moaning ffs

There will be a prime ministerial statement at 6

GM228

Johnson live statement at 6pm from No.10.

Care to speculate?

sondagefaux

The route Foods of Animal Origin (and fish/seafood) will need to take if they're exported from Northern Ireland to the republic, even if the customer is a few kilometers down the road from the Northern Ireland producer.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/sep/02/a-typical-hour-in-the-life-of-the-irish-border

Of course, this assumes that the EU lists the UK as a non-EU country from which it is possible to import Foods of Animal Origin (and fish/seafood) in the first place.

If the UK isn't listed, no Foods of Animal Origin (and fish/seafood) can be imported into the EU from the UK, including Northern Ireland.

Foods of Animal Origin include all meat, including poultry & game, eggs and dairy products (milk, cheese, cream, butter etc).

All such foods entering the EU from outside must pass through a Border Inspection Post. The only Border Inspection Posts in the republic at present are at Dublin Port and Shannon Airport.

https://ec.europa.eu/food/animals/vet-border-control_en

https://ec.europa.eu/food/animals/vet-border-control/bip_en

MrMusician18

Televised statement from Johnson at 6

Stop moaning ffs

GM228 wrote: »

Johnson live statement at 6pm from No.10.

Care to speculate?

Election.

Or wild guess revoke article 50 and start over

prawnsambo

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I said I think it would mean FOM. I didn't say I knew for sure.

It would definitely mean accepting EU rules and regulations in a whole host of matters with ZERO input into those rules and regulations.

In any point, its moot. A majority in the HoC voted against a customs union.

Next...

I think it actually drops a large host of regulations. It's the single market that means regulations. The CU is a single external tariff regime which means no trade deals effectively (some are allowed, but only with EU consent). However anything sold into the SM must meet SM rules.

Iirc, it was a very small majority that voted against the CU.

fash

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Nope, they understood fully the backstop was indefinite unless there was a legally guaranteed timeline to end it.

Which is the reason an indefinite backstop would never clear the HoC. The facts back this up. Too much opposition from across the parties such as Labour, DUP, SNP, as well as ERG. It never had a hope.

It became an exercise in flogging a dead horse in the end and is still being flogged by many, well past its death!

Yet whenever given the opportunity to vote to unilaterally remove the backstop itself, the HOC voted 600 to 24 - over 96% in favour of the backstop - a backstop wanted by 70% of the population of NI.

Itssoeasy

GM228 wrote: »

Johnson live statement at 6pm from No.10.

Care to speculate?

His divorce has finally come through ?

Stop moaning ffs

Itssoeasy wrote: »

His divorce has finally come through ?

Announcement they’ve named the dog

Zubeneschamali

Benn's bill above requests an extension to January 31st. I think the EU will offer only a longer extension, time for something to actually happen in Westminster, like 12 more months.

careless sherpa

GM228 wrote: »

Johnson live statement at 6pm from No.10.

Care to speculate?

Something to do with a kidnapped royal and a pig

or else it is an election. I didn't think he would move this quickly for an election. If it is it is the end of the line for the DUP, next stop the wilderness

prawnsambo

sondagefaux wrote: »

The route Foods of Animal Origin (and fish/seafood) will need to take if they're exported from Northern Ireland to the republic, even if the customer is a few kilometers down the road from the Northern Ireland producer.

I think an example was posted earlier of a chicken sandwich being supplied to a Donegal filling station by a Derry sandwich maker, having to travel 300 miles before it can be delivered. And of course there are certificates required which cost £200 each.

Zubeneschamali

GM228 wrote: »

Johnson live statement at 6pm from No.10.

Care to speculate?

Florid but empty bluster, just as May's Downing Street announcements were dull robotic repetitions of empty talking points.

prawnsambo

Itssoeasy wrote: »

His divorce has finally come through ?

A new dog, an election AND a royal wedding (well Boris getting married again, but hey ho). Tory landslide incoming.

Joe_ Public

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Benn's bill above requests an extension to January 31st. I think the EU will offer only a longer extension, time for something to actually happen in Westminster, like 12 more months.

Could you even squeeze in a referendum by Jan 31 if it was on your list of preferred options? I dont think so, seems a strange date to choose on the face of it.

is_that_so

According to The Guardian, Sky saying he will not talk about an election.

sondagefaux

fash wrote: »

You understand that FOM has nothing to do with a CU? Turkey is in a CU but has no FOM. Do we really need to go through the basics in this?

This reply is aimed at the poster you've replied to.

It would be very helpful if a thread on basic international trade jargon could be set up.

A customs union, as the name implies, unites the customs rules of different countries.

It means that each member of the customs union applies the same tariffs from goods outside of the customs union and the members of the customs union do not apply tariffs on goods from other members.

A customs union facilitates* the movement of goods between its members. It has nothing to do with the movement of people.

*A customs union does not allow for free movement of goods between its members.

The EEC (now the EU) completed its customs union in 1968.

However, there were still non-customs barriers to trade between member states of the EEC, such as different standards for different products. This is why the Single Market (or Internal Market) was created as regulatory union.

This Regulatory Union means that the members of the EU apply the same standards to almost all goods (there are some exceptions, allowed for in the EU treaties), so that there can be genuine free movement of goods between member states, not just the removal of tariff barriers (aka customs).

Imagine if there were 28 different standards across the EU for house paint. A house paint manufacturer in Ireland would have to meet multiple different standards, massively increasing production costs and the regulatory burden on the business, if it wanted to sell its products across the EU and the Single Market.

The Single Market means it can make its products in Ireland, gain regulatory approval in Ireland, and sell its products to the other EU members, plus other countries that aren't in the EU but in the Single Market: Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein.

Leaving the EU/Single Market will actually increase the regulatory burden on businesses as they have to meet EU standards AND UK standards (which may eventually become significantly different), plus they may need to get certification in the EU, or have someone based in the EU to take legal responsibility for meeting EU standards/getting EU certification, if they want to export to the EU.

Customs duties (tariffs) are not the only barriers to trade.

In fact, 85% of all goods imported into the EU pay 0% tariffs, even goods imported into the EU from countries which the EU has no trade agreements with, as the standard EU tariffs on many goods is 0%.

In the case of Foods of Animal Origin (see my previous post), the EU has to list a non-EU country first before there is even a possibility of exports of such foods from the non-EU country in question.

There is no guarantee that the EU will list the UK for this purpose, especially since listing requires the UK to co-operate and allow EU inspectors into the UK to carry out the necessary checks before listing can be approved.

trellheim

Beth Rigby

Rebels march on. Bill to demand ext until Jan 31st if no new deal passed in HoC or not agreed deal by Oct 19
- Tues; motion to take control of order paper Weds 4th Sept from 3pm
- Weds; 3pm Private Members Bill to stop No Deal Oct 31
- Thurs; if passed Bill to HoL. GE called?

https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1168566568961368065

MrMusician18

Podium out with government crest. Points to that this won't be an election announcement.

I hate all these stupid conventions.

VinLieger

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Podium out with government crest. Points to that this won't be an election announcement.

I hate all these stupid conventions.

They are stupid but i like laughing at how important they seem to find them

trellheim

sky news broadcasting live, no regional firewall if anyone wants in

https://news.sky.com/story/live-boris-johnson-cancels-meeting-with-tory-brexit-rebels-11800419

sondagefaux

prawnsambo wrote: »

I think an example was posted earlier of a chicken sandwich being supplied to a Donegal filling station by a Derry sandwich maker, having to travel 300 miles before it can be delivered. And of course there are certificates required which cost £200 each.

That's actually incorrect. The tweet it was based on incorrectly assumed that the sandwiches could travel directly from Northern Ireland (eg. Newry) to the BIP at Dublin Port.

In fact, once they'd crossed the border between Newry and Dundalk, they would have entered the EU and would have to pass through a BIP, which has to be at border entry point or immediately adjacent, under EU law. Therefore it would not be possible to have a BIP for products entering across the border between NI and the republic located at Dublin Port.

Without BIPs adjacent to the border, even sandwiches (assuming they contained controlled ingredients), along with all other Foods of Animal Origin (including processed foods containing these as ingredients, i.e. a frozen spaghetti bolognese ready meal with beef), would have to enter the state via the BIPs at either Dublin Port or Shannon Airport.

Some Brexiteers have cited the example of a BIP in Rotterdam which is 20km from the port entrance, not realising that the Port of Rotterdam officially extends inland for approximately 40km. So their claim that BIPs can be away from the border doesn't hold up.

Once again, this all presupposes that the EU and the UK can co-operate together after a No Deal Brexit to enable the EU to list the UK as an approved 'third country' (in EU jargon, a country that's not in the EU), for the purposes of exporting Foods of Animal Origin and fish/seafood to the EU.

If the EU doesn't list the UK, the location of BIPs in Ireland will be irrelevant as all exports of Foods of Animal Origin/fish/seafood from the UK to the EU will immediately cease. Any such foods stopped at EU borders/points of entry will be turned back to the UK or seized and destroyed.

Stop moaning ffs

Please not another extension. And if it is what he’s announcing I hope Eu says no

lawred2

More patriotism required is what I expect him to say

Stop moaning ffs

lawred2 wrote: »

More patriotism required is what I expect him to say

Beleave more! Vim vigour oomph and British bulldog spirit

GM228

Itssoeasy wrote: »

His divorce has finally come through ?

One divorce down, one to go...

trellheim

here we go

fash

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I could be wrong here but I believe at one stage or another every single party leader in the UK has said the referendum result needs to be respected.

Here's what Corbyn said.


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-brexit-result-must-be-respected-a3313661.html

Yep, Tory hating Corbyn said that. He didn't say it was illegitimate, he didn't say it was an opinion poll. He said the result must be respected.

Tory hating arch brexiter Corbyn? I'm shocked, shocked that he would support brexit

Harry Palmr

Lively crowd at the gates

trellheim

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Lively crowd at the gates

your not wrong listen to that!