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Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

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    #4442
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,711 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Surprising by Pence. Not very diplomatic to take a dump on your host's lawn.

    Very clear message for Varadkar there. The current US administration is all out for Brexit and Johnson.

    Given Trump and Pence are probably gone in 2020 i'm not sure it matters much.


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    #4443
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    54and56 wrote: »
    12 page leaked UK Govt document dated last week highlighting the inadequacies of the "Alternative Arrangements" - https://www.politico.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/AA-N-Ireland-doc-lobby.pdf
    Anyone with half a brain reading that would just tell them to stop wasting money and close it down. Every single 'solution' holed below the water line. Irretrievably.

    Not that we didn't know that already.


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    #4444
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,716 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Serious discussion only please. Witticisms about the VP are not welcome here.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #4445
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    And drama ensues. Strange days indeed.


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    #4446
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Seems there is a realistic chance that the Government can torpedo the Benn bill, as it steps over a line and dictates how the PM must act in an international negotiation, a matter of Royal Prerogative, and Boris would have to give the Queen's Consent to that.

    So I think they are back to a needing a VoNC and caretaker PM to get an extension.


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    #4447
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1168896364648062976

    The government's majority becomes - 1. Looks like GE time!


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    #4448
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,798 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Referring to the post just deleted, I wouldn't put it past the current British administration to clash with the WTO after a no-deal Brexit if they follow through on their claim their side of the Irish border will be left open. You can make the same type of claims against the WTO as you would against the EU. It's a supranational organisation that bosses the UK around. What right has it got? The UK should form its own trade organisation and convince Commonwealth countries to join. The WTO needs the UK more than the UK needs the WTO. etc. etc.


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    #4449
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1168896364648062976

    The government's majority becomes - 1. Looks like GE time!
    I think it's zero unless I missed another defection?


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    #4450
    Shelga
    Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Shelga


    Does he have to call a GE now that he’s lost his majority?

    I know it’s not up to Johnson himself to call the GE otherwise- but does this loss change things and force an election?


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    #4451
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    I think it's zero unless I missed another defection?

    Think they meant that the govt lost its majority of one by -1.

    I can't keep up with things over there anymore


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    #4452
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,998 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    I think it's zero unless I missed another defection?


    No a majority of 1 becomes -1 as he's moving directly to an opposition party so its subtracting from the government and adding immediately to the opposition


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    #4453
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Shelga wrote: »
    Does he have to call a GE now that he’s lost his majority?

    I know it’s not up to Johnson himself to call the GE otherwise- but does this loss change things and force an election?
    Still has to lose a vote of no confidence really. Getting more likely though.


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    #4454
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,998 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Shelga wrote: »
    Does he have to call a GE now that he’s lost his majority?

    I know it’s not up to Johnson himself to call the GE otherwise- but does this loss change things and force an election?


    Is his majority also counting the labour rebels like Hoey?


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    #4455
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Is his majority also counting the labour rebels like Hoey?
    They're still Labour party members. Unless they actually join the Troy party. Or the DUP (Kate Hoey obvs.).


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    #4456
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Is his majority also counting the labour rebels like Hoey?
    Actual majority who are part of or who support the government(DUP).


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    #4457
    Shelga
    Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Shelga


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Is his majority also counting the labour rebels like Hoey?

    I’m surprised she hasn’t crossed the floor to embrace the Tories yet, actually.


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    #4458
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    What in the name of god is Corbyn talking about? This speech should have been
    • brexit
    • brexit
    • brexit
    • brexit
    • brexit
    • brexit
    • brexit
    • brexit


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    #4459
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,665 ✭✭✭54and56


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    I think it's zero unless I missed another defection?

    No, a defection of 1 has a double effect as it reduces the govt by 1 AND increases the opposition by 1.

    EG. Govt has 50, Opposition 49.

    54and56 defects from the Govt to the Opposition.

    New numbers are:-

    Govt 49, Opposition 50.


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    #4460
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,711 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Can someone clarify something?

    Bercow said there is no vote tonight but a motion...

    So that means the crucial vote is not tonight?


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    #4461
    farmchoice
    Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭farmchoice


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Can someone clarify something?

    Bercow said there is no vote tonight but a motion...

    So that means the crucial vote is not tonight?
    motion to take control of parliment tonight
    take control tomorrow, put forward bill, vote on bill


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    #4462
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Can someone clarify something?

    Bercow said there is no vote tonight but a motion...

    So that means the crucial vote is not tonight?
    It was never tonight just the mechanism for it to be debated and voted on , probably tomorrow.


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    #4463
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,562 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    54and56 wrote: »
    No, a defection of 1 has a double effect as it reduces the govt by 1 AND increases the opposition by 1.

    EG. Govt has 50, Opposition 49.

    54and56 defects from the Govt to the Opposition.

    New numbers are:-

    Govt 49, Opposition 50.

    But if 54 and 56 defects to the opposition is that not 2 defectors?

    Govt has 50, Opposition 49 - Original position

    Govt now 48, Opposition 51 - New position


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    #4464
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1168896364648062976

    The government's majority becomes - 1. Looks like GE time!

    Not necessarily if they're smart they can simply have the government removed via a VONC then nominate a neutral MP to lead temporarily. Thry got 14 days once that happens to decide a replacement. All they need to do is basically say to Jeremy: You need to let someone else take up being a caretaker PM long enough to remove the Brexit Gun poined at everyone as you wont win a majority big enough to be PM while its there.


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    #4465
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    What in the name of god is Corbyn talking about? This speech should have been
    • brexit
    • brexit
    • brexit
    • brexit
    • brexit
    • brexit
    • brexit
    • brexit

    He can't resist, he's like the oul lad at the tenants association meeting who always to shoehorn his hobby horses into everything


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    #4466
    lennymc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,458 ✭✭✭lennymc


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    But if 54 and 56 defects to the opposition is that not 2 defectors?

    Govt has 50, Opposition 49 - Original position

    Govt now 48, Opposition 51 - New position

    i thought that too, but then realised 54and56 is the one person - see OP's username :)


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    #4467
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Bambi wrote: »
    He can't resist, he's like the oul lad at the tenants association meeting who always to shoehorn his hobby horses into everything

    He was addressing all the points in Johnson’s statement which he was given before hand. To be fair.


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    #4468
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,427 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    For many, the bread and butter issues matter a lot in the UK. EU membership is not tangible to many.


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    #4469
    _Puma_
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭_Puma_


    Bojo to parachute into Dublin on Monday for a last throw of the dice.


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    #4470
    Shelga
    Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Shelga


    The way the House of Commons conducts its business is just disgraceful. Obviously, emotions are running high and time is of the essence, but the way they scream and jeer and shout at each other like drunken louts is so undignified.

    It’s like some nightmarish back to school scenario. Oh well, at least that sociopath Raab got a nice tan on his holidays.


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    #4471
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,621 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    briany wrote: »
    Referring to the post just deleted, I wouldn't put it past the current British administration to clash with the WTO after a no-deal Brexit if they follow through on their claim their side of the Irish border will be left open. You can make the same type of claims against the WTO as you would against the EU. It's a supranational organisation that bosses the UK around. What right has it got? The UK should form its own trade organisation and convince Commonwealth countries to join. The WTO needs the UK more than the UK needs the WTO. etc. etc.

    If they follow through with the attempt to get a trade deal with the US, I would not be surprised if they joined the US in attempting to dismantle the WTO. It is many times more complicated to deal with the WTO than it is the EU, and the UK will have less say, so if they had a problem with EU then they will look to get as far away from WTO as possible.


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