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Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

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    #4472
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,427 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Johnson will be coming to Dublin to blame Varadkar. That's his only purpose.


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    #4473
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    Shelga wrote: »
    The way the House of Commons conducts its business is just disgraceful. Obviously, emotions are running high and time is of the essence, but the way they scream and jeer and shout at each other like drunken louts is so undignified.

    It’s like some nightmarish back to school scenario. Oh well, at least that sociopath Raab got a nice tan on his holidays.

    I believe this is one of the major issues with the HoC that it ends up being close to a shouting match and trying to shout louder than the other guy instead of actually debating the issues and counterpointing. Hell wasnt their a EUparl session a while back with one of the MEPs taking a snipe at a Brexiteer saying this isnt the house of commons? Cant find it while on a mobile :X


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    #4474
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,786 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The "opposition" also includes ex-Labour MP Jared O'Mara who doesn't turn up and is meant to resign today. That by-election will definitely go Lib Dem but won't be held that quickly.


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    #4475
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,731 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Water John wrote: »
    Johnson will be coming to Dublin to blame Varadkar. That's his only purpose.
    I presume that is completely anticipated by the Irish Govt


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    #4476
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,991 ✭✭✭Christy42


    _Puma_ wrote: »
    Bojo to parachute into Dublin on Monday for a last throw of the dice.

    Not even. Like May all his foreign trips are simple pr exercises. What is he going to say? "I come offering a hard border"?

    For tonight's vote it seems like there were already enough rebels for him to lose. While it does count outgoing MPs for labour, Boris' side also includes people like Hanmond who have been massively anti Boris.


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    #4477
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,786 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Dodds comes on the Sky stream. Have to turn off as his voice is intolerable. Its like being in the worst Belfast taxi basically.


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    #4478
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    I presume that is completely anticipated by the Irish Govt
    At some point yes, photo op at best and some mutual back-slapping but no substance.


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    #4479
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    I presume that is completely anticipated by the Irish Govt
    He's sounding so incoherent in parliament right now, that I'm not sure any message he tries to release will get further than the microphone.


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    #4480
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    Water John wrote: »
    Johnson will be coming to Dublin to blame Varadkar. That's his only purpose.
    My, how the great empire has fallen, the pm of great britian coming cap in hand to the Irish


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    #4481
    gooch2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭gooch2k9


    L1011 wrote: »
    Dodds comes on the Sky stream. Have to turn off as his voice is intolerable. Its like being in the worst Belfast taxi basically.

    Dodds calling it an undemocratic backstop. The man's hypocrisy knows no bounds!


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    #4482
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,786 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    gooch2k9 wrote: »
    Dodds calling it an undemocratic backstop. The man's hypocrisy knows no bounds!

    What I did notice was that he was speaking against an NI-only backstop not the UK-wide one in the WA. Then it just became angry taximan.


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    #4483
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,220 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    Another good thread (maybe confirmation bias for myself) on the origin of this mess:

    https://twitter.com/FFbpe/status/1168264347900108800?s=20


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    #4484
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Leo's latest comments on it.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49563469


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    #4485
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users Posts: 45,594 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Dodds wants the Taoiseach to sit down with unionists to discuss removal of the backstop. He knows full well that the EU is looking after its border with a third country and that can't be settled by the Irish state alone. We're back to the old 'divide and rule' tactic from two years ago. Didn't work then, won't work now.

    What is notable from the exchange is Johnson said they are at one on the removal of the backstop, which makes it seem unlikely he'll ditch them and go with an NI only backstop. (Unless his plan is to cobble together something that does the same thing and call it something else. Who knows what the agenda is.)


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    #4486
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    BBC now have the government at -1 excluding SF and others - 319/320

    4c39979c-3f60-4900-ba5a-b717e56e32c9.png


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    #4487
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,380 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    Dodds wants the Taoiseach to sit down with unionists to discuss removal of the backstop. He knows full well that the EU is looking after its border with a third country and that can't be settled by the Irish state alone. We're back to the old 'divide and rule' tactic from two years ago. Didn't work then, won't work now.

    What is notable from the exchange is Johnson said they are at one on the removal of the backstop, which makes it seem unlikely he'll ditch them and go with an NI only backstop. (Unless his plan is to cobble together something that does the same thing and call it something else. Who knows what the agenda is.)

    sit down with unionists?

    sure aren't they in the minority in Northern Ireland?

    arrogant man.


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    #4488
    ZeroThreat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭ZeroThreat


    SNIP. No more one-liners please.


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    #4489
    Panrich
    Registered Users Posts: 3,825 ✭✭✭Panrich


    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    Dodds wants the Taoiseach to sit down with unionists to discuss removal of the backstop. He knows full well that the EU is looking after its border with a third country and that can't be settled by the Irish state alone. We're back to the old 'divide and rule' tactic from two years ago. Didn't work then, won't work now.

    What is notable from the exchange is Johnson said they are at one on the removal of the backstop, which makes it seem unlikely he'll ditch them and go with an NI only backstop. (Unless his plan is to cobble together something that does the same thing and call it something else. Who knows what the agenda is.)

    Ok Nigel. We can absolutely ditch the backstop as soon as you persuade Boris to keep the UK in the SM/CU.


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    #4490
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,621 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Johnsons agenda is pretty clear, he is being given far too much credit for some genius plan that there is simply no evidence of.

    He is trying to bully the EU into giving up the Backstop, trying to take the Trump approach of threatening and acting crazy on the basis that the other side have some scruples and actually care.

    The problem is that the US have the military and industrial strength to do pretty much whatever they want, whilst the UK is facing up against a much larger union. Johnson's gambit is that asking nicely didn't work so they will simply demand on the basis that if he can get them to believe he is crazy enough they will bend.

    Hence they are continually dismissing the notion that a crash out will cause anything major in the UK, whilst simultaneously claiming a a crash out will cause so much havok in the EU that they must capitulate.

    And that is it. Not other plan,nothing else but a massive bluff to try to get out of this mess. The thinking being that at the very least they can then blame the EU for all the, obvious, problems should they crash out. So, to Johnson, it is a win-win or at least no lose sitation.


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    #4491
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,821 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    Dodds wants the Taoiseach to sit down with unionists to discuss removal of the backstop. He knows full well that the EU is looking after its border with a third country and that can't be settled by the Irish state alone. We're back to the old 'divide and rule' tactic from two years ago. Didn't work then, won't work now.

    What is notable from the exchange is Johnson said they are at one on the removal of the backstop, which makes it seem unlikely he'll ditch them and go with an NI only backstop    . (Unless his plan is to cobble together something that does the same thing and call it something else. Who knows what the agenda is.)

    I think the Tories genuinely have concerns about an election right now, and want to keep the DUP on board. They are getting attacked from both sides, remainers on their left, Brexit party on their right.

    As far as they are concerned, no point coming out for the backstop and removing your last ally from the house.


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    #4492
    Panrich
    Registered Users Posts: 3,825 ✭✭✭Panrich


    awec wrote: »
    I think the Tories genuinely have concerns about an election right now, and want to keep the DUP on board. They are getting attacked from both sides, remainers on their left, Brexit party on their right.

    As far as they are concerned, no point coming out for the backstop and removing your last ally from the house.

    I’m not 100% sure you can even put the Brexit party to the right of this mob.


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    #4493
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,838 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    awec wrote: »
    I think the Tories genuinely have concerns about an election right now, and want to keep the DUP on board. They are getting attacked from both sides, remainers on their left, Brexit party on their right.

    As far as they are concerned, no point coming out for the backstop and removing your last ally from the house.

    Even with the DUP, the government doesn't have a majority anymore.


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    #4494
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Even with the DUP, the government doesn't have a majority anymore.
    The market seems to like the idea.


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    #4495
    LoughNeagh2017
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭LoughNeagh2017


    I just sit back and enjoy the storm that I helped create by voting to leave, I voted to leave because of my views on immigration but I never thought the final result would have been leave. Ulsters a miserable hole anyway, hopefully I have helped make it even more miserable for our future generations.


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    #4496
    InTheShadows
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭InTheShadows


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    Another good thread (maybe confirmation bias for myself) on the origin of this mess:

    https://twitter.com/FFbpe/status/1168264347900108800?s=20

    All this matters not a jot. The UK is leaving the EU in a few weeks. Both sides had their opportunities to make their case to the UK electorate and remain lost.


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    #4497
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,821 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Even with the DUP, the government doesn't have a majority anymore.

    Right, but so long as the tories remain against the backstop that is 10mps they can count on to effectively vote with them.

    They may also see the DUP as a necessary ally in any future parliament if there is a GE.


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    #4498
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Water John wrote: »
    Johnson will be coming to Dublin to blame Varadkar. That's his only purpose.

    He's just aiming to drag Leo into the web he's spinning for the HoC. Bit like a drowning man is our Boris, will cling on where he can and drag down anyone who gets too close. Or he might just survive and send the others to the bottom.


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    #4499
    farmchoice
    Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭farmchoice


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    All this matters not a jot. The UK is leaving the EU in a few weeks. Both sides had their opportunities to make their case to the UK electorate and remain lost.
    if this move by the Opposition works out and it looks like it very well might then there is next to no chance of the UK leaving on 31st of october.


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    #4500
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,648 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Anna Soubry claims that Johnson rang the editor of the Telegraph today to tell him off for publishing the Peter Foster story (not because it was untrue, just for publishing it).


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    #4501
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,838 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    All this matters not a jot. The UK is leaving the EU in a few weeks. Both sides had their opportunities to make their case to the UK electorate and remain lost.

    It's looking like Boris will have to break the law if he is going to fulfill his 'promise'.


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