Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

gooch2k9

Nicholas Soames to vote against whip tonight, so Johnson will deselect Churchill's grandson.

Does Johnson plan to call the election in the morning if he loses the SO24 vote or after the bill has been debated and voted on?

Leroy42

The very fact that their own rules (FTPA, VoNC etc) seem almost at odds with each other shows the depths that the UK finds itself in politically.

They have a PM which even his own party doesn't trust, a senior advisor that isn't even part of the ruling party, almost complete warfare within the party itself, a party within the party (ERG) and an opposition tha can't agree on what it wants.

According to the Peter Foser tweet thread earlier, the EU and particularly Ireland, is now faced with the certainty of a border in Ireland. One option is No Deal with the hope that reality can force the UK back to the table. The other is a deal, which legitimises the border and ensures it for the long term. As Foster says, while both are bad there really is only option for the EU and Ireland to go with.

Why Johnson is allowed to continue to spout this nonsense about getting closer to a deal, why Give is allowed to stand in the HoC and comment that No Deal will bring challenges but in the same breath claim their are opportunities within giving any indication of either is beyond a joke.

ath262

John Bercow says he is satisfied that the application is acceptable.

MPs stand to express their approval, so the debate will go ahead. (BBC Blog)

devnull

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Does Johnson plan to call the election in the morning if he loses the SO24 vote or after the bill has been debated and voted on?

He cannot just call an election on a whim.

There are rules in relation to Fixed term Parliament act, but can get around that by what I said above.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Fantastic to see everything beginning to burn for Johnson, might refocus British minds regarding Brexit and that there are worse than the EU out there.

The worst BJ anyone has ever had.

gooch2k9

devnull wrote: »

He cannot just call an election on a whim.

There are rules in relation to Fixed term Parliament act, but can get around that by what I said above.

Poorly phrased on my part, replace "call an election" with "attempt to trigger one".

I'm curious as opposition won't go with it if it's prior to the legislation passing so it would be a waste of his time.

Headshot

ath262 wrote: »

John Bercow says he is satisfied that the application is acceptable.

MPs stand to express their approval, so the debate will go ahead. (BBC Blog)

It was brilliant watching Bercow burning Peter Bone

Infini

Derek Eager Registrar wrote: »

Fantastic to see everything beginning to burn for Johnson, might refocus British minds regarding Brexit and that there are worse than the EU out there.

The worst BJ anyone has ever had.

Johnson was one of those who helped pushed that referendum over the line so to see the whole thing implode on his watch is nothing short of Karma being a bìtch.

Now all we need to see is a withdrawal of A50 and investigations expecially into Farage and those who have poisoned the well with misinformation and damn we have the comeuppance we all deserve to see.

Water John

If Johnson loses tonight, he loses control of Parliament tomorrow, so cannot attempt to call an election.

I would no matter what expect UK to still do a Brexit, maybe soft.

martingriff

So did they just vote Boris as the leader and PM just to see him burn and get him out of politics for ever

Limpy

Infini wrote: »

Johnson was one of those who helped pushed that referendum over the line so to see the whole thing implode on his watch is nothing short of Karma being a bìtch.

Now all we need to see is a withdrawal of A50 and investigations expecially into Farage and those who have poisoned the well with misinformation and damn we have the comeuppance we all deserve to see.

Bull.... The democratic will of the people must be respected. They voted leave. Get over it.

And take those crusty lefties outside Westminster away too.

Nody

Nody wrote: »

EU screwing over Ireland (again) as Brexiteers have been saying for years...

Source here.

Damn you EU; damn you to hell! How dare you back stab Ireland like this!!1 oh wait...

Aw this actually has me nursing a semi

Would pay to see Brexiter reaction to that announcement

martingriff

Why is Corbyn doing a leaders question kind of thing

Kermit.de.frog

Johnson's performance at the dispatch box earlier in the Commons was dreadful. Like some randomer from off the street. Think the Tories looked shocked at how actually bad this guy is.

theguzman

Could Boris return to her Majesty and seek a longer prorogation until Nov 1st? I was amazed he didn't just simply choose to suspend Parliament to ensure a No Deal Exit.

sdanseo

theguzman wrote: »

Could Boris return to her Majesty and seek a longer prorogation until Nov 1st? I was amazed he didn't just simply choose to suspend Parliament to ensure a No Deal Exit.

He'd be run out of town, pitchforks and all if he did that. Whatever about accusing his current stance as being undemocratic, that would be an unquestionably dictatorial step, regardless of pedantic legality.

prawnsambo

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

That’s from a unionist. Mad

1. Any backstop seeks to maintain the status quo of the Good Friday Agreement so CANNOT be in breach of it.
2. A "no deal" brexit breaches the GFA in 9 specific areas. (there are a few more less blatant).

https://twitter.com/snevin1/status/1168933647329742852?s=21

Cynthia Hermon is a rock of sense in what is largely a gibbering mess of unionist politics as illustrated by the DUP. It's a real pity there aren't more like her. Because quite a lot of unionists are and the DUP give them a bad name.

ath262

nice moment when the SO24 debate was raised - from LauraK twtter

"About a dozen or so Tory MP s stood to back Letwin when he called for the emergency debate, opposition MP s even applaud .. mood has to change a lot if govt has any chance of winning"

martingriff

Limpy wrote: »

Bull.... The democratic will of the people must be respected. They voted leave. Get over it.

And take those crusty lefties outside Westminster away too.

Yes you are right they voted to leave with many promises the amount of money back to the NHS? are they getting that? How about the fact Rees Mog and others saying there was no possibility of a no deal and they will get a great deal? Have they got that?. Let the people decide if they want to crash out by have an election and voting does who want a no deal if they wish then?

Shelga

I know Corbyn has been dire in many respects, and has flip-flopped on Brexit so much that he has lost a huge amount of credibility.

But when you hear him speak today, everything he is saying is sincere and reasonable. He has never been open to the idea of no-deal, at least not publicly. And listening to him now, I believe that he understands how damaging it would be.

I just don't see how anyone can listen to him and Johnson side by side and not quickly come to the conclusion that Corbyn is by far the lesser of two evils.

Stop moaning ffs

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Johnson's performance at the dispatch box earlier in the Commons was dreadful. Like some randomer from off the street. Think the Tories looked shocked at how actually bad this guy is.

People complain about Jeremy and the old doddery geography teacher bit

Keep Boris’ exact performance but change his accent to a deep North Yorkshire accent and what do you get.
He wouldn’t be there

Really think Boris would get where he is (throughout his life never mind PM) if he wasn’t a posh Etonian?
If he had a Yorkshire accent he’d be th loudmouth in the pub.

This whole thing is about optics and privilege and theater. At the cost of a nation in this case.

boggerman1

martingriff wrote: »

So did they just vote Boris as the leader and PM just to see him burn and get him out of politics for ever

Your assumption there is that we are dealing with intelligent people in the Tory party.with the likes of Johnson,raab,and the rest I guess its fairly obvious

gooch2k9

Shelga wrote: »

I know Corbyn has been dire in many respects, and has flip-flopped on Brexit so much that he has lost a huge amount of credibility.

But when you hear him speak today, everything he is saying is sincere and reasonable. He has never been open to the idea of no-deal, at least not publicly. And listening to him now, I believe that he understands how damaging it would be.

I just don't see how anyone can listen to him and Johnson side by side and not quickly come to the conclusion that Corbyn is by far the lesser of two evils.

They come into the situation with a lot of brainwashing about how bad Corbyn would be. Constant negative media from a lot of press outlets over there.

Spanish Eyes

prawnsambo wrote: »

Cynthia Hermon is a rock of sense in what is largely a gibbering mess of unionist politics as illustrated by the DUP. It's a real pity there aren't more like her. Because quite a lot of unionists are and the DUP give them a bad name.

From polls that I have seen (well you know yourself), the Alliance Party seems to be gaining a lot of ground.

I do realise that they had a Unionist possibly Lib Dem background, not sure, but in the absence of the SDLP being able to make much ground sadly now, they may just push through.

Would be great IMO. But I am sure others will hate me for saying that. We do have to move on though. DUP is doing absolutely nothing for NI and I say this because they are supporting Brexit in C+S with Tories in Westminster, and NI will really suffer from their stance.

SF keeping their powder dry. No need to disturb the "enemy" when they are doing it all by themselves I suppose.

ancapailldorcha

No insults please.

Stop moaning ffs

Thatdoesnt looksafe tome AHHHHH!! wrote: »

What are the chances there is a nationalist majority at the 14 October election in the Six Counties (guaranteeing a border poll under the GFA)?

United ireland being discussed in palrliament. Your appearance is weirdly timely.

Capt'n Midnight

Thatdoesnt looksafe tome AHHHHH!! wrote: »

What are the chances there is a nationalist majority at the 14 October election in the Six Counties (guaranteeing a border poll under the GFA)?

None.

It's First Past The Post and the recent poll shows that half don't consider themselves as either tribe.

It's more probable that SF would stand aside in some areas, and that's something they are very unlikely to do even if it means DUP winning seats.

dublinman1990

Wow. What a powerful moment in the HoC.

All of those opposition MP's & Tory MP's who defected against Johnson have my greatest respect amid throughout all of this chaos.

If someone can give a list of those Tory MP's who went against BJ's wishes by calling for this debate tonight. I will be happy to read their names.

L1011

Thatdoesnt looksafe tome AHHHHH!! wrote: »

What are the chances there is a nationalist majority at the 14 October election in the Six Counties (guaranteeing a border poll under the GFA)?

Nil. The growth there is in unaligned voters

devnull

JRM is turning on Bercow now and questioning his impartiality and trying now to get the rules changed and stating that they are not consistent and the motion should be amended.

Honestly the more I hear from JRM the more I hate the guy, it's just his voice and the manner of speaking and the fake portrayal of innocence.