Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

Leroy42

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Listening to a podcast last night, the possibility was raised of Johnson asking an EU country (eg Hungary) to block the request for an extension. So he could still force through a No Deal.

Makes no sense. Why would, for example, Hungary take the blame for kicking the UK out of the EU?

kalych

Joe_ Public wrote: »

But what exactly is in it for TBP in helping remain/2nd referendum parties win seats? Surely the best strategy for Farage is to start targeting seats, labour and conservative, and win as many as possible instead of the scattergun run candidates in every constituency approach he seems to be favouring. Personally i think he's a bad electioneer and wont run a good campaign, even though the lessons of his ukip days should be standing to him.

Taking over from the Cons as a permanent party of 'the right'? I dunno, Farage can have any number of motives as he's clearly funded by vested interests and money of unknown origin.

briany

FrancieBrady wrote: »

European press reaction is not good. One wonders how the EU are viewing it all and the point, if any, of granting an extension.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/04/fighting-for-survival-european-papers-maul-johnson-after-defeat?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1b3ekot7vnT7ROuiiYJ85mNQ7znsWHiDGSEQ64pXtU0Jzk9Qun_raBnqo#Echobox=1567583816

We all know that the UK will promptly waste whatever time they are given, if they're given any at all. In the event of getting an extension, it should be the length of the proposed transition period.

Joe_ Public

Conserative MP in house just now: "Three years ago the public gave us the largest ever mandate in British politics."

This is untrue and keeps being repeated. 52-48% is nowhere near the largest ever mandate in british politics. Wish they'd stop trotting that hoary old chestnut out.

Mr.Nice Guy

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1169290886343200773

This recognition of the need for divergence between NI and GB is interesting.

boggerman1

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1169290886343200773

This recognition of the need for divergence between NI and GB is interesting.

Make sure Sammy Wilson sees that.surely burst a few blood vessels

devnull

boggerman1 wrote: »

Make sure Sammy Wilson sees that.surely burst a few blood vessels

Not like the Tories need the DUP anymore though is it, even with them they're well short of a majority. May as well burn them now it's obvious that they are going to lose any votes regardless of Arlene's support.

beggars_bush

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Conserative MP in house just now: "Three years ago the public gave us the largest ever mandate in British politics."

This is untrue and keeps being repeated. 52-48% is nowhere near the largest ever mandate in british politics. Wish they'd stop trotting that hoary old chestnut out.

Nobody ever mentions the turnout in that referendum

Kermit.de.frog

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1169290886343200773

This recognition of the need for divergence between NI and GB is interesting.

That would still require checks on other trade.

What Coveney has been saying is no infrastructure or related checks.

ancapailldorcha

Delay bill passed in first vote.

beggars_bush

They're going to ditch the DUP, aren't they?

Oh please let it be so

fash

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1169290886343200773

This recognition of the need for divergence between NI and GB is interesting.

Only deals with 30% of the problem but concedes the principle that divergence in the UK to a system where "subject to foreign rules" is ok. Will be interesting to see where the illogic leads

Itssoeasy

beggars_bush wrote: »

They're going to ditch the DUP, aren't they?

Oh please let it be so

They might. I mean when they hadn't kicked out 21 of their own members the DUP became even more vital to have some chance of doing anything.

Infini

beggars_bush wrote: »

Nobody ever mentions the turnout in that referendum

17.4million voted to leave..... out of a population of 64million+.

"Good sir I do belive that is not a strong enough grounds for leaving" :P

beggars_bush wrote: »

They're going to ditch the DUP, aren't they?

Oh please let it be so

The moment Boris lost his majority they instantly became excess baggage and will shortly be getting their well deserved comeuppance.

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Alex_Negueruela/status/1169265030287810561

Honestly, the only good to come of this photo are the countless memes being produced.

Mods, I hope this is ok to post, might lighten up the mood in here.

Let it be said that Moggles is getting the comeuppance he deserves and the ridicule he needs to show everyone what kind of vile person he is and how this basically shows exactly what's he out for: Himself and to profit on everyone elses misery.

ZX7R

Leroy42 wrote: »

Makes no sense. Why would, for example, Hungary take the blame for kicking the UK out of the EU?

Doesn't make sense is right , there is nothing for Boris to offer in return

fash

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/04/brexit-minister-complains-eu-has-offered-no-solutions-to-irish-backstop
Not sure if anyone linked to this so far- almost stated swearing when I saw the headline.

Itssoeasy

I might be making more of this, but I wonder how the old guard Tories feel about the current PM kicking the grandson of Winston Churchill out of the party and may have hastened his decision to not stand at the next election. For all his issues, Winston Churchill is a huge figure in the 20th Century of British and world history,and his because his grandson voted against the government once he's out when the current PM voted against his party many times before with no consequences.

cryptocurrency

fash wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/04/brexit-minister-complains-eu-has-offered-no-solutions-to-irish-backstop
Not sure if anyone linked to this so far- almost stated swearing when I saw the headline.

UK just needs to throw NI under the backstop bus and undercut all of europe on the mainland. Could even make NI corporation tax 1%

Can't they even make NI the most disobedient member ever? Team up with the likes of Orban and just veto all the business the EU does until it is paralysed?

Itssoeasy

fash wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/04/brexit-minister-complains-eu-has-offered-no-solutions-to-irish-backstop
Not sure if anyone linked to this so far- almost stated swearing when I saw the headline.

I hadn't seen that but like you I read the headline and didn't feel like swearing but rolled my eyes. The backstop was a UK suggestion first.

prunudo

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Cummings should be frog marched out of Downing Street. This coming from senior Tory elders!

https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1169237425568342018

Lord Patton on Sky News now having a similar pop and attacking the Johnson/Cummings leadership for the shenanigans they're pulling. Mentioning the fillabustering(sp) in house of lords and how they'll do anything to get their way.
The old guard aren't happy with the way their party is going.

Enzokk

fash wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/04/brexit-minister-complains-eu-has-offered-no-solutions-to-irish-backstop
Not sure if anyone linked to this so far- almost stated swearing when I saw the headline.

The part that gets me is this,

A UK government spokesman conceded that there was yet to be a meeting of minds in the talks but said the pace of negotiations would be intensified this month.

He said: “The prime minister wants to get a deal and is ready to work in an energetic and determined way to get it done. The prime minister’s sherpa [David Frost] will meet with the A50 taskforce this week and throughout September as talks intensify."

When did doing something almost entirely only with energy and determination succeed? I mean I could line up for Ireland this weekend against Wales/Switzerland and run around with determination and energy but I will not achieve anything. This must be another buzz word to use to describe Johnson, because I can see no other purpose as it is not doing anything to help the negotiations.

ToBeFrank123

trashcan wrote: »

If there is any upside to all of this shenanigans it’s the spectacle of the Tory party tearing itself apart. Long may that continue.

Its not tearing itself apart. Its sheding moderates and moving to the far right. They will still come back as the largest part after the next election. But it will be a crying shame to lose people like Clarke, Stewart and Soames to the HoC if they are deselected.

Enzokk

cryptocurrency wrote: »

UK just needs to throw NI under the backstop bus and undercut all of europe on the mainland. Could even make NI corporation tax 1%

Can't they even make NI the most disobedient member ever? Team up with the likes of Orban and just veto all the business the EU does until it is paralysed?

Why? The EU project is failing so it doesn't need one of its members to help it along. I also find your thoughts that a country in the EU will actually try to harm it intentionally when it receives more than it gives. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face, but the UK will know all about that and would see it as a viable option.

Enzokk

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Its not tearing itself apart. Its sheding moderates and moving to the far right. They will still come back as the largest part after the next election. But it will be a crying shame to lose people like Clarke, Stewart and Soames to the HoC if they are deselected.

How is their record on the economy and the NHS and why would people vote for it to continue?

is_that_so

cryptocurrency wrote: »

UK just needs to throw NI under the backstop bus and undercut all of europe on the mainland. Could even make NI corporation tax 1%

Can't they even make NI the most disobedient member ever? Team up with the likes of Orban and just veto all the business the EU does until it is paralysed?

Pretty much everything is Qualified Majority Voting(QMV) in Europe since Lisbon so it would have little effect.

cryptocurrency

Enzokk wrote: »

Why? The EU project is failing so it doesn't need one of its members to help it along. I also find your thoughts that a country in the EU will actually try to harm it intentionally when it receives more than it gives. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face, but the UK will know all about that and would see it as a viable option.

if the UK can't sign up to a backstop that gives them no say but want to leave and can't then they surely can bring the EU to its knees to the point they are begged to leave

Kermit.de.frog

Brexit hard man Steve Barclay is on his feet so the vote must be imminent.

Harry Palmr

Just a word that Andrew Neil's new political digest starts in BBC Two now.

Infini

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Its not tearing itself apart. Its sheding moderates and moving to the far right. They will still come back as the largest part after the next election. But it will be a crying shame to lose people like Clarke, Stewart and Soames to the HoC if they are deselected.

The Conservatives are basically turning into NewKIP and the Brexit Looneys are UKIP 2.0. They'll eat each other and rip themselves apart as more sane people will move away to the other parties. The conservatives look like they might get back in BUT remember May fell for that and they hardly got that far. Between Boris acting the bollocks and Farage with his urge for the limelight they could end up evicerating one another and the Lib Dems Labour and SNP all clean house.

Whenever theres an election the only chance the UK has at this point is if they dump the conservatives, they basically booted out those last night who were the pragmatic type so all Labour and the other's have to do is paint the rest as kippers in sheeps clothing to bury them.

Enzokk

cryptocurrency wrote: »

if the UK can't sign up to a backstop that gives them no say but want to leave and can't then they surely can bring the EU to its knees to the point they are begged to leave

I am not talking about the EU, but Hungary. You posted that the UK should work with Hungary but the UK will not have a say in anything that happens in the EU. That is what happens when you leave, you lose all say in the project. But then to ask Hungary to undermine the EU when they are not a net contributor, how will that help Hungary?