Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

devnull

Sardonicat wrote: »

There's a lot of MPs still sitting on the opposition benches. Are they abstaining?

If they don't want an election they should just vote against it, abstaining is stupid and just giving Boris ammo that they should simply avoid.

I know some of them will say they want an election but not now so that is why they will abstain, but they need to think less about image and more about taking no risks and just doing what needs to be done to achieve their aims.

Itssoeasy

DOCARCH wrote: »

Thursday I believe?

If House of Lords sits 24/7, then no matter how long it takes (48, 72, 96 hours, etc.) to get through all the amendments, it is counted as one day.

If the House of Lords is still on its Thursday sitting on Monday, I think proroguing parliament/HOC has to be delayed until House of Lords sitting has ended.

So the house of Lords is the parliamentary equivalent of Mastermind ? They've started so they'll finish.

Panrich

schmittel wrote: »

To be fair to the Tories it is difficult to find fault with the argument that the majority of them voted to trigger article 50, i.e leave on 29th March, and then failed to find any consensus to do so.

The current crop of MPs as a whole have shown they are unable to agree on a way to leave, so the only possible solution is a general election to try and get a new make up of MPs.

Yet Johnson is offering them one and now they are saying they don't want that either!

If Johnson loses this vote, as looks likely, I think he should offer to ask for the extension as the price of an election on October 14th.

He can campaign on give me a majority and I will make sure we leave on 31st October deal or no deal.

Similiarly Labour can campaign on we will leave but with a CU deal or whatever it might be.

And Lib dems can campaign on we will revoke Article 50.

If the electorate believe in any of the above positions, somebody will get a majority, and if it is Johnson, parliament ought to respect it.

It is clear that if there is an election on 14th October it is clearly a single issue election - Brexit. It is essentially a people's vote.

I don’t think the tories deserve any sympathy here. TM waded in feet first ruling out CU-SM-ECJ before any engagement with the EU.

If there was consensus in the country and parliament that a hard Brexit was warranted then these red lines might have been understandable.

However given the closeness of the referendum result, the mandate was surely for very close alignment.

DOCARCH

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So the house of Lords is the parliamentary equivalent of Mastermind ? They've started so they'll finish.

That's what I heard on Newsnight last night.

Itssoeasy

DOCARCH wrote: »

That's what I heard on Newsnight last night.

Fair enough but the house of Lords at the moment are having a vote on some amendment and having gone back to the last speaker it seems to be about the bill from the commons.

boggerman1

Jeze that blond Tory woman on sky back on again tonight and still spouting the same bull about how great Johnson is.

devnull

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Fair enough but the house of Lords at the moment are having a vote on some amendment and having gone back to the last speaker it seems to be about the bill from the commons.

House of Lords is live here
https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/3ee21ab2-8e9e-4ea5-aa0c-ee785b88212c

If this vote fails then all eyes will be on Lords until Boris tries another way of manufacturing an election.

kowloon

Headshot wrote: »

This Brexit stuff is better than the last season of GOT

It's thrilling stuff

And people will be even more upset at how it ends.

Itssoeasy

boggerman1 wrote: »

Jeze that blond Tory woman on sky back on again tonight and still spouting the same bull about how great Johnson is.

Any time I'm watching the HOC sittings I just watch a youtube streams which is in better quality then the official stream and I don't get the talking heads.

ath262

66% not reached

devnull

VOTES FOR: 298
VOTES AGAINST: 56

amacca

10000maniacs wrote: »

Has Stephen Kinnock, trying to make a name for himself inadvertently scuppered Benn's bill?
If his amendment is carried, I see a lot more peers not going for it.

Tony Connelly seemed to be of the opinion that was at least a possibility I think.

Itssoeasy

Didn't get the required two thirds needed.

Akrasia

schmittel wrote: »

To be fair to the Tories it is difficult to find fault with the argument that the majority of them voted to trigger article 50, i.e leave on 29th March, and then failed to find any consensus to do so.

.

This whole ‘they voted for article 50 therefore they’re hypocrites to oppose no deal’ is a very dishonest argument. They voted for A50 in good faith that the government would negotiate a good deal to leave the EU while still retaining most of the benefits of being in the EU. Remember that long debate about whether it should be a hard brexit or a soft brexit? Well you don’t hear anything about soft brexit anymore, it’s as if that debate never existed. The ERG have successfully closed the options down to a Hard brexit, or catastrophic no deal. This has forced moderates to choose between accepting a hard brexit in the WA, or pushing for a 2nd referendum and calling the whole thing off.

sjb25

Another zinger

Akrasia

Boris Johnson thinks the leader of the opposition is Marty McFly and he can get him to do anything by calling him a chicken if he doesn’t

Frank Bullitt

Labour abstained.

Cummings really is a master at work.

An Ciarraioch

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Didn't get the required two thirds needed.

Or even a simple majority.

devnull

We'll be back here for another vote via a simple majority vote in a day or two I think, he'll keep trying various ways to force an election before the bill gets through the Lords.

An Ciarraioch

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Or even a simple majority.

No surprise, he has a majority of -46!

Itssoeasy

devnull wrote: »

We'll be back here for another vote via a simple majority vote in a day or two I think, he'll keep trying various ways to force an election before the bill gets through the Lords.

Did I hear/or read right that the PM can introduce a bill that says "we wish to hold an election on date X" and if it passed it would trigger an election ? I definetely heard something like that but can't find where.

Itssoeasy

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Or even a simple majority.

Well when you remove the whip from 21 of your Mp's the night before and you lost the slim majority you had before that, it makes getting a majority a bit difficult.

hometruths

Akrasia wrote: »

This whole ‘they voted for article 50 therefore they’re hypocrites to oppose no deal’ is a very dishonest argument. They voted for A50 in good faith that the government would negotiate a good deal to leave the EU while still retaining most of the benefits of being in the EU. Remember that long debate about whether it should be a hard brexit or a soft brexit? Well you don’t hear anything about soft brexit anymore, it’s as if that debate never existed. The ERG have successfully closed the options down to a Hard brexit, or catastrophic no deal. This has forced moderates to choose between accepting a hard brexit in the WA, or pushing for a 2nd referendum and calling the whole thing off.

‘they voted for article 50 therefore they’re hypocrites to oppose no deal’ is not the point I am making.

My point is that although they voted for Article 50, as members of parliament they have demonstrably failed to find a way of leaving, hard or soft of any flavour.

Ergo the only solution is to try and change the make up of the current members of parliament.

Vote a new lot in to find a solution, whether that is hard/soft or revoke.

bilston

Impressive consistency from Johnson.

3 votes
3 defeats

dublinman1990

So what I can gather from this vote to end tonight's proceedings in the HoC; Labour are waiting to let the Brexit delay bill pass in the HoL first. It is known that Labour are not trusting the government, especially BJ, in having an GE at this moment in time. It's a very sensible decision to make by Labour for now to not have an election. I think after the 31st of October is a good thing for MP's if the extension get's passed in the HoL.

Imreoir2

Gintonious wrote: »

Labour abstained.

Cummings really is a master at work.

Sure, the result of a now minority Conservative government that has no power to do anything at this stage and can be held in place while the opposition punches them with defeat after defeat is a master stroke. Boris's record is one of abject failure thus far. Trying to spin this as Mr Cummings master strategy is really the definition of polishing a turd.

The bleating complaints of Conservative MPs, reduced to schoolboy name calling, is sure to build a winning image when the General Election does come. /s

theguzman

I have been away from the thread and wasn't reading much into what happened today, the HoC has passed a motion to avoid a No-Deal Brexit and is refusing to vote for a General Election? Is this correct? Will Boris go to the EU and accept Theresa May's deal after all? Or is No-Deal Brexit still a possibility and if so how might it come about?

Synode

Gintonious wrote: »

Labour abstained.

Cummings really is a master at work.

Why?

Synode

Synode wrote: »

Why?

I think the poster was being sarcastic.

Sardonicat

Would someone explain to me why so many abstentions?