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Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

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    #6062
    20silkcut
    Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    cryptocurrency wrote: »
    what hope is that really? Spend some time in the UK outside of London and you will know they have no hope

    Elections regularly produce big surprises that’s why we have them.


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    #6063
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    A Shropshire Lad wrote: »
    Civil servents and judges dont vote on legislation


    If you look at the recent papers released by the courts regarding the prorogation you will notice that it was a recommendation. Probably from a civil servant, they influence policy much more than the lords. It is not easy for the lords to reject government policy. The best they can do is to delay or amend. Civil servants influence both the creation of policy and the implementation of policy from the very top to the end user.



    Judges can overturn or block government policy under Judicial Review. This is very common.


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    #6064
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,914 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    He started the week loudly claiming he did not want an election.

    The only reason he wants one now is that he has lost control of parliament, his majority, 20+ Mps and his first 3 votes as PM, the first PM in history to do so.

    His very last hope to stay in #10 and avoid being the worst PM ever is to win a majority in an election, so now he needs one.

    And Corbyn will let him have one after his "Do or die" deadline of 31 Oct has passed and No Deal is deferred to 2020.

    He as always wanted an election as he knew his party would not vote to no deal. So what he does is drop he will go to Queen to purlong the parliament know that there will be some way by his opponents to stop it. He knows he will fail so he then says he will go for an election. Why else was himself and Rees Mog so flippant. He probably did not think so many would deflect.

    This is why Corbyn does not want to vote for it straight away until the bill is in law (which has an amendment apparently in it that says they have to go by the next deadline. Which the government made happen by not having there teller on the No lobby


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    #6065
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,694 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Forty Seven wrote: »
    If you look at the recent papers released by the courts regarding the prorogation you will notice that it was a recommendation. Probably from a civil servant, they influence policy much more than the lords. It is not easy for the lords to reject government policy. The best they can do is to delay or amend. Civil servants influence both the creation of policy and the implementation of policy from the very top to the end user.



    Judges can overturn or block government policy under Judicial Review. This is very common.

    Was he called Dominic Cummins by any chance?


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    #6066
    cryptocurrency
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭cryptocurrency


    Derek Eager Registrar wrote: »
    It's getting all very suicidal in many ways. The British PM would rather be dead than look for an extension and this constant use of no deal against the EU is metaphorical Britain putting a gun to its head and threatening to pull the trigger if they don't get their way.

    So much bitterness then among themselves, it's going to take a lot of time to mend this mess.

    it's all part of the parliament vs the people mantra. You do sense this is the calm before the storm of an election where the UK public vote for the complete opposite to the remain parliament in there now and set the UK on a head on course with the EU


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    #6067
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Was he called Dominic Cummins by any chance?


    I would imagine it may be linked to him. Don't know for sure.



    He is a great example of an unelected civil servant that has much more power and influence than the house of lords.


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    #6068
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Forty Seven wrote: »
    That really depends which way you look at him. He is a hero to the leavers. He has masterfully taken control of the Brexit parties position to protect his own voter base and has now got the strong backing of half the country who see him as a strong leader.
    But for every leave vote he gains, he loses a moderate. And they have to go somewhere. Those votes will probably go to the LibDems. Not sure that's a net gain for him at all, just stealing the BPs clothes while the LibDems steal his.
    Forty Seven wrote: »
    Everyone else views him as a fool. He is neither. He knows exactly what he is doing and he is do or die foolish with it. A very dangerous game is being played here but he had no choice with the Brexit party fielding candidates and breathing down his neck he had to take this position.
    He thought he knew what he was doing. But it backfired spectacularly. He's lost control of the house, has no majority and has irrevocably split his party. Control is gone and now he's literally trying to goad Corbyn into rescuing him. He looks weak because he is. The tabloids are doing their best to spin it for him, but only the true believers are swallowing it. I agree it's a dangerous game, the country is at stake after all.


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    #6069
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    cryptocurrency wrote: »
    it's all part of the parliament vs the people mantra. You do sense this is the calm before the storm of an election where the UK public vote for the complete opposite to the remain parliament in there now and set the UK on a head on course with the EU


    The one good thing that may come out of this is turnout numbers finally rising and the young taking the opportunity to vote. A small appeasement within the bunkered madness but it may breed a new type of political class for the future.


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    #6070
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    cryptocurrency wrote: »
    Derek Eager Registrar wrote: »
    an election where the UK public vote for the complete opposite to the remain parliament in there now and set the UK on a head on course with the EU

    Right now, my sympathies are with Remain and I hope they can succeed.

    But if the English give Boris a majority, they will deserve what they get. Just as I cheer on any sports team taking on the English, I will enjoy the spectacle of their national humiliation for the next decade or two.


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    #6071
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    cryptocurrency wrote:
    it's all part of the parliament vs the people mantra. You do sense this is the calm before the storm of an election where the UK public vote for the complete opposite to the remain parliament in there now and set the UK on a head on course with the EU

    The UK political sideshow is of no interest to anyone else.

    The UK public can vote for who and what they like. The EU will deal with whatever emerges.


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    #6072
    Roger_007
    Registered Users Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    I do not really believe that Boris Johnson really gives a hoot whether the UK is in or out of the EU or whether they leave with or without a deal.
    Boris has only one objective and that is to occupy No 10 as PM for as long as he can. He has unashamedly used the whole Brexit debacle as a convenient vehicle to get himself through the black door. He now needs an election to enable him to stay there, (he hopes).
    Boris, like that other blonde across the pond, is simply an unprincipled opportunist with a gigantic ego. Brexit doesn't matter to him one way or the other, it's all about Project Boris.


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    #6073
    BluePlanet
    Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    Forty Seven wrote: »
    The remain vote is split across all parties. The leave vote is right behind Boris now.
    They are not.
    He has purged Leave Anti-No Deal people from his party and they are now among the opposition.


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    #6074
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    BluePlanet wrote: »
    They are not.
    He has purged Leave Anti-No Deal people from his party and they are now among the opposition.


    I'm talking about voters. Not parliamentarians.


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    #6075
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Forty Seven wrote: »
    Austerity ended yesterday. Nobody is talking about it. That was as big as it gets.
    Please see my post Yesterday, 19:31 which you seem to have missed.
    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Chancellor Sajid Javid declares end of austerity

    They've rediscovered the magic money tree. To be done with borrowing.

    SKY did a review of the budget and it's nearly back to 2009 in real terms.

    Of course its dependent on rules, so if there's a recession ....

    AFAIK Manufacturing is in recession and service industry is barely growing.

    And all moot if Sajid doesn't have a job.


    Javid made promises he did not expect to have to deliver which is why the media didn't make a big deal of it either.


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    #6076
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,991 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Forty Seven wrote: »
    I'm talking about voters. Not parliamentarians.

    Are there no leave with a deal voters? I mean many seem to want it over and done with and that is the closest way that can happen.

    No deal pits it front and cent for the next decade at a minimum.


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    #6077
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Please see my post Yesterday, 19:31 which you seem to have missed.




    Javid made promises he did not expect to have to deliver which is why the media didn't make a big deal of it either.


    I'm on permanent disability and was recently migrated onto the hated universal credit. I have nothing good to say about tory economic policy. I believe I was pointing out how policy was not going to factor in the next election and used the lack of coverage of the 'end of austerity' to make that point. This election will be a referendum in all but name.


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    #6078
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Are there no leave with a deal voters? I mean many seem to want it over and done with and that is the closest way that can happen.

    No deal pits it front and cent for the next decade at a minimum.


    The deal is dead, the EU won't renegotiate. There is only no deal or stay now. It all comes down to if those 'leave with a deal' voters decide to switch to remain or no deal. That's the big question now.


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    #6079
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,636 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Forty Seven wrote: »
    The deal is dead, the EU won't renegotiate. There is only no deal or stay now. It all comes down to if those 'leave with a deal' voters decide to switch to remain or no deal. That's the big question now.

    A border down the Irish Sea could solve the Brexiteers' problems ie. shaft the DUP / Unionists.


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    #6080
    MikeSoys
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭MikeSoys


    what does BJ have against the backstop?


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    #6081
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,636 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    MikeSoys wrote: »
    what does BJ have against the backstop?

    Stops the UK signing trade deals globally, possibly even with the US (as he has to keep the Irish border open)


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    #6082
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,991 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Forty Seven wrote: »
    The deal is dead, the EU won't renegotiate. There is only no deal or stay now. It all comes down to if those 'leave with a deal' voters decide to switch to remain or no deal. That's the big question now.

    They have said repeatedly that if the UK comes up with a workable solution they will consider it. Or if the UK changes it's red lines they will take that into account.


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    #6083
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    MikeSoys wrote: »
    what does BJ have against the backstop?


    He believes it will trap us into the customs union and there is no way to terminate it from our end. he also believes it will hamper other trade deals we may be able to make.


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    #6084
    A Shropshire Lad
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭A Shropshire Lad


    Whats Boris going to do now. He says he wont go back to EU and ask for an extension under any circumstances, but parliamnent are going to compel him to do that ?


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    #6085
    cryptocurrency
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭cryptocurrency


    Strazdas wrote: »
    A border down the Irish Sea could solve the Brexiteers' problems ie. shaft the DUP / Unionists.


    If they do that they would be better to walk away from NI.

    Ireland can't afford to supplement the £10 billion budget deficit to keep the lights on nor the policing and the 1 million who will feel isolated.


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    #6086
    cryptocurrency
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭cryptocurrency


    A Shropshire Lad wrote: »
    Whats Boris going to do now. He says he wont go back to EU and ask for an extension under any circumstances, but parliamnent are going to compel him to do that ?

    Quit, or refuse. Paint himself as a do or die brexiteer and the rest of parliament against the people


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    #6087
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,636 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    A Shropshire Lad wrote: »
    Whats Boris going to do now. He says he wont go back to EU and ask for an extension under any circumstances, but parliamnent are going to compel him to do that ?

    There's speculation he could act in an obstructionist way if he was forced by the Parl to go to the EU ie. turn up in Brussels and then start messing them around.

    Goodness knows what will actually happen in coming weeks.


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    #6088
    cryptocurrency
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭cryptocurrency


    Forty Seven wrote: »
    He believes it will trap us into the customs union and there is no way to terminate it from our end. he also believes it will hamper other trade deals we may be able to make.

    It is exactly that. The backstop is all about the "level playing field" they even admitted it.

    EU knows the UK will totally out compete them without it


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    #6089
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,618 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Forty Seven wrote: »
    I'm on permanent disability and was recently migrated onto the hated universal credit. I have nothing good to say about tory economic policy. I believe I was pointing out how policy was not going to factor in the next election and used the lack of coverage of the 'end of austerity' to make that point. This election will be a referendum in all but name.

    So you expect all those unfortunate like yourself that rely on, and are being mistreated by, the government run by the Tories to vote them back into power on the basis on 'getting BRexit done'?

    Those relying on food banks, those on Zero Hour Contracts. We hear all the time that the public are simply sick and tired on Brexit and that they should just get on with it, but they seemingly care far more about Brexit than even themselves.


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    #6090
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users Posts: 5,805 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    A Shropshire Lad wrote: »
    Whats Boris going to do now. He says he wont go back to EU and ask for an extension under any circumstances, but parliamnent are going to compel him to do that ?

    Tony Connelly says that the magic plan is ... to remove all references to the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement!

    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1169708806173069312


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    #6091
    cryptocurrency
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭cryptocurrency


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    So you expect all those unfortunate like yourself that rely on, and are being mistreated by, the government run by the Tories to vote them back into power on the basis on 'getting BRexit done'?

    Those relying on food banks, those on Zero Hour Contracts. We hear all the time that the public are simply sick and tired on Brexit and that they should just get on with it, but they seemingly care far more about Brexit than even themselves.

    They believe that Brexit is the barrier to fixing their low skilled employment and housing needs.


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