Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

beggars_bush

VinLieger wrote: »

Ahh yes the poor unionists, so accepting of other beliefs and opinions that for their biggest celebrstion of the year they spend it burning flags and effigies of everyone they disagree with....

As others have pointed out the unionist projection that in a UI they would be treated in a similar way to how they would want to treat nationalists if unionists had 100% power is just incorrect. It simply wouldnt happen because we are not bitter old troglodytes but also ironically the laws of the EU wouldnt let it happen either.

They'd probably have more freedoms to express their culture in a UI.

A Dub in Glasgo

Forty Seven wrote: »

That's just not true. It was well sold to the populace.

No it was not

Controlling immigration was and there is plenty the UK can do within the EU to control it but it chose not to. Leaving the EU will have zero affect on non-EU immigration which the UK has 100% control but again decided not to use their powers

Akrasia

Forty Seven wrote: »

It is, I often use it to quote or refer to a story. Can't pretend it is not a refuge for the left though. It is the opposite of the Mail.

The mail has a political bias, which is fine. The reason I don’t like it is all the actual lies and misinformation it reports on a daily basis

Akrasia

cryptocurrency wrote: »

EXcept the very document before the referendum sent to 9 million homes

That same document was denounced as ‘project fear’during the referendum campaign

Leave voters voted based on promises from the leave campaign that all the warnings from the remains side were exaggerated and untrue...

murphaph

Akrasia wrote: »

That same document was denounced as ‘project fear’during the referendum campaign

Leave voters voted based on promises from the leave campaign that all the warnings from the remains side were exaggerated and untrue...

Exactly. This BS argument that leavers knew their vote would mean leaving the SM because the government pamphlet said so, while at the time same time the leave campaign said the pamphlet was project fear and could be ignored. We are expected to believe that leave voters actually did not actually believe this leave campaign position and assumed it was a lie but still voted for the liars?!

Zubeneschamali

Peregrinus wrote: »

the more Johnson protests that he won't comply with the law requiring him to seek an extension on 19 October, the more incentive he gives the Labour party to put off the election until after 19 October.

Not claiming this poll I grabbed from Twitter is authoritative, but it shows what some people are predicting - if the election is before 31st, Boris gets the Brexit vote. If he stumbles into November and Brexit hasn't happened, that vote defects to the Brexit Party:


https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1169737496642629634

prunudo

murphaph wrote: »

Exactly. This BS argument that leavers knew their vote would mean leaving the SM because the government pamphlet said so, while at the time same time the leave campaign said the pamphlet was project fear and could be ignored. We are expected to believe that leave voters actually did not actually believe this leave campaign position and assumed it was a lie but still voted for the liars?!

And I've yet to see any interview where they're taken to task on this. The journalist either give the Brexiters a free pass or brush over the usual project fear reply. If they do happen to ask again they're hit with the 'but the people voted' or 'do you not believe in democracy' bs.

gmisk

Water John wrote: »

Mogg has apologised. Had no option really.
The Jo Johnson resignation is doing Alexander Johnson severe damage.

What did Mogg apologise for?

Enzokk

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

It's not something that comes naturally to us in Ireland, we hear a plummy English accent and think "w@nker", but I was watching a Stephen Fry show about language at one stage, and he was visiting a call centre. The boss was explaining to him that they set up in the North East because the Geordie accent is the most liked in the UK, it's seen as the most friendly.


But, said the boss, if the person calling isn't happy and wants to speak to a supervisor to sort out a problem, Stephen Fry would be perfect for that role because his Oxbridge accent tells the caller that he has authority.


So yes, lots of ordinary people across the UK are used to thinking that an important person, a person who should naturally be in charge, sounds like Boris. It's just part of their class system from birth.

I can see that, but I wonder what effect it will have that the posh accents has caused the problems for the last 9 years? It's all good and well when such a person tells you he knows what is wrong and he can fix it by doing, A B and C, but to have such a person waffle and have no plan should surely play a role. Cameron would be someone with a posh accent and a sense of authority that would play well with people and why he easily beat Ed Miliband. He just looked and sounded like he knew what he was doing.

For Johnson part of his charm is that he isn't like Cameron, he makes mistakes and says the wrong things which is charming. But when it comes to sorting out people's problems this may not be the right person they are looking for right now. Johnson's plan was perfect, take over from Cameron when things were still going to be stable after the UK stayed in the EU, but to have his style try to navigate them out of a crises?

c.p.w.g.w

Love when they interview brexiters who claim a second referendum would be undemocratic. Yet no mention the fact the public were deliberately mislead with the "Red Bus of bullsh!t" or the fact that voting to just leave was problematic due to the fact leaving consisted of numerous scenarios, many of which were absolute fantasy from the "vote leave" crowd

Roger_007

gmisk wrote: »

What did Mogg apologise for?

I hope he apologised for sleeping on the job and taking up three seats in the HoC while he was doing it.
He could also apologise for showing contempt for the important debate that was taking place at the time.

Enzokk

gmisk wrote: »

What did Mogg apologise for?

Was it for dismissing Dr Nichol's fears on what delays would mean for people that need medication everyday? Or was it for linking the Doctor to someone who was roundly dismissed by peers and lost his license? Or was it for treating parliament with contempt and having a lie down during the debate the other night?

gmisk

Roger_007 wrote: »

I hope he apologised for sleeping on the job and taking up three seats in the HoC while he was doing it.
He could also apologise for showing contempt for the important debate that was taking place at the time.

Nope. I had no idea which one of his sh#tty statements it would be there are so many
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/05/brexit-lords--blow--boris-johnson-pass-bill-stopping-no-deal-politics-live

---

Jacob Rees-Mogg has apologised after comparing a consultant who helped draw up no-deal medical plans to the disgraced anti-vaxxer Andrew Wakefield.
Rees-Mogg had told MPs that, in warning about the possible effects of a no-deal Brexit on medical supplies, Nicholl was being as irresponsible as Wakefield, who was struck off the medical register in 2010 after suggesting a link between the MMR vaccine and autism. Rees-Mogg apologised after intense pressure from the medical profession, as well as Westminster colleagues.

boggerman1

Anyone that listened to Eamon dunphy's podcast from this week with that plastic paddy Brendan O'Neill will know the real reason poor mogg had to lounge about.according to Brendan its because he's so tall that he finds it difficult to sit up straight in them uncomfortable benches.I kid u not

listermint

Forty Seven wrote: »

This referendum came about and was voted in because of immigration. There would be no support for the single market as it comes with free movement of people.

Sorry but that's a ridiculous notion. Voter's were poisoned to think immigration in the final days of the campaign. It was a ploy by the unhonourable Cummings.


You nor the other 30 odd million voters in that referendum gave a crap about the EU before it. In fact I'd say it came up in conversation never.

Enzokk

I found this tweet interesting on Labour's position on Brexit. It is starting to make sense on what they are doing, still trying to fulfill the mandate of the referendum but then giving people a vote on what they want to accept.

https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1169869104754253824?s=20

You may not agree with them on it but it is no worse than trying to force through a Brexit that nobody campaigned or voted for.

Peregrinus

Enzokk wrote: »

Was it for dismissing Dr Nichol's fears on what delays would mean for people that need medication everyday? Or was it for linking the Doctor to someone who was roundly dismissed by peers and lost his license? Or was it for treating parliament with contempt and having a lie down during the debate the other night?

The correct answer is (b), for six points. Mogg has apologised to Dr. David Nicoll, whom he compared to the disgraced anti-vaxxer Andrew Wakefield.

Zubeneschamali

Enzokk wrote: »

I can see that, but I wonder what effect it will have that the posh accents has caused the problems for the last 9 years?

9 years? They've been doing it for 400 years!


It's only relatively recently that the PM was always Lord This or The Duke of That.

Zubeneschamali

Roger_007 wrote: »

I hope he apologised for sleeping on the job and taking up three seats in the HoC while he was doing it.

I have seen it suggested that this is a Cummings special for Search Engine Optimization.

A Tory lies on the Government benches so that when someone googles "Tory Government Lies" they get a comical image instead of what they wanted.

Same as Boris invented a hobby of painting model buses so that when people google Brexit bus boris they get that instead of the 350m red bus.

gmisk

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I have seen it suggested that this is a Cummings special for Search Engine Optimization.

A Tory lies on the Government benches so that when someone googles "Tory Government Lies" they get a comical image instead of what they wanted.

Same as Boris invented a hobby of painting model buses so that when people google Brexit bus boris they get that instead of the 350m red bus.

Bizarre....but you could be right...it worked with the bus thing!

listermint

That would work if people actually Googled Tory government lies. But its such an unnatural sentence they wouldn't.

Peregrinus

listermint wrote: »

That would work if people actually Googled Tory government lies.

No, it wouldn't. I've just googled it, and I didn't get anything about JRM slouching.

10000maniacs

VinLieger wrote: »

Ahh yes the poor unionists, so accepting of other beliefs and opinions that for their biggest celebrstion of the year they spend it burning flags and effigies of everyone they disagree with....

As others have pointed out the unionist projection that in a UI they would be treated in a similar way to how they would want to treat nationalists if unionists had 100% power is just incorrect. It simply wouldnt happen because we are not bitter old troglodytes but also ironically the laws of the EU wouldnt let it happen either.

One of Johnsons solutions to the backstop got it's inspiration from one of Ian Paisley (snr)'s early 70's racist rants that went something like "My people are British, my cattle are Irish". Where else would Johnson go for his inspiration?

Roger_007

What has become apparent is that the so-called 'unwritten constitution' in the U.K. is not worth the paper that it's not written on.
The proposal doing the rounds that the government could amend the Fixed Term Parliaments Act by introducing a piece of legislation that would suspend the 2/3 majority requirement in the Act and replace it with simple majority requirement only goes to prove that the government can literally do anything it likes provided it has a majority in the HoC.
All of the legislation, conventions and precedents that make up the 'constitution' go out the window if the government of the day chooses to ignore them.
The government could in theory abolish the Monarchy, the Supreme Court, the House of Lords or any other 'cherished' institution if they so wished.
They can change any legislation at any time that might prevent them from doing any of the above.

Peregrinus

Roger_007 wrote: »

What has become apparent is that the so-called 'unwritten constitution' in the U.K. is not worth the paper that it's not written on.
The proposal doing the rounds that the government could amend the Fixed Term Parliaments Act by introducing a piece of legislation that would suspend the 2/3 majority requirement in the Act and replace it with simple majority requirement only goes to prove that the government can literally do anything it likes provided it has a majority in the HoC.

But it doesn't have a majority in the HoC, not even close. Even counting the DUP as government votes, the government it's 44 votes off a majority.

Roger_007 wrote: »

All of the legislation, conventions and precedents that make up the 'constitution' go out the window if the government of the day chooses to ignore them.
The government could in theory abolish the Monarchy, the Supreme Court, the House of Lords or any other 'cherished' institution if they so wished.
They can change any legislation at any time that might prevent them from doing any of the above.

No. Parliament does or can do these things, not the government. As Johnson is discovering to his chagrin.

CelticRambler

Roger_007 wrote: »

What has become apparent is that the so-called 'unwritten constitution' in the U.K. is not worth the paper that it's not written on.
The proposal doing the rounds that the government could amend the Fixed Term Parliaments Act by introducing a piece of legislation that would suspend the 2/3 majority requirement in the Act and replace it with simple majority requirement only goes to prove that the government can literally do anything it likes provided it has a majority in the HoC.
All of the legislation, conventions and precedents that make up the 'constitution' go out the window if the government of the day chooses to ignore them.

I wouldn't get too worked up about whether or not their constitution is written down - across the pond, "our friends in America" have one beautifully written and on display for all to see, but that hasn't deterred the current administration from finding ways to ignore its provisions.

Mr.Wemmick

Enzokk wrote: »

Was it for dismissing Dr Nichol's fears on what delays would mean for people that need medication everyday? Or was it for linking the Doctor to someone who was roundly dismissed by peers and lost his license? Or was it for treating parliament with contempt and having a lie down during the debate the other night?

I think Mogg's role is now the joker - keep distracting the public from Bojo's dying political bluster. Pure Shakespeare.

gmisk

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

I think Mogg's role is now the joker - keep distracting the public from Bojo's dying political bluster. Pure Shakespeare.

That would make sense to a degree....but its kind of a take your pick from the range of jokers available situation at the minute.

Enzokk

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

I think Mogg's role is now the joker - keep distracting the public from Bojo's dying political bluster. Pure Shakespeare.

Or, he was never considered for a role in the cabinet because he has nothing to bring to the role and like his boss is way over his head when it comes to running the country.

jm08

10000maniacs wrote: »

One of Johnsons solutions to the backstop got it's inspiration from one of Ian Paisley (snr)'s early 70's racist rants that went something like "My people are British, my cattle are Irish". Where else would Johnson go for his inspiration?

I don't think that was a racist rant, more an answer to either BSE or Foot and Mouth when the British Beef and Lamb industry was wiped out and British Beef banned from Europe. Paisley agreed that Northern Irish Beef was now Irish! That entailed checks coming in from GB onto the island of Ireland.