Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

030802

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Any solution needs to be accepted by all parties and you cannot constrain another country to accept a deal against its will. Ireland and the EU have a relationship between them which means that they should be able to agree a solution. If not, maybe the ECJ can enforce one.

Grand. Just go then. We gently advise you not to, but please own your decision and its consequences.

briany

I'm sure Cameron has regrets about Brexit, but wherever he is now, he has to be laughing his head off at the mess his old frenemy Johnson finds himself in.

sdanseo

briany wrote: »

I'm sure Cameron has regrets about Brexit, but wherever he is now, he has to be laughing his head off at the mess his old frenemy Johnson finds himself in.

Whatever regrets he might have, resigning certainly isn't one of them!
Best decision he ever made and that he made it so swiftly after the result shows he was in a different league to May and BJ.

fash

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Two countries are involved in the GFA, the UK and Ireland.

If the GFA requires open borders and free trade (as is claimed by the EU) then the two countries obviously need to have Common Travel Area and a Free Trade Agreement. Any other Treaties or Agreements should be subject to this.

... And neither party would be allowed to unilaterally leave such common travel area and free trade agreement without proposing a solution which is equivalent and agreed to by the other side.
Now you get it.

J Mysterio

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Two countries are involved in the GFA, the UK and Ireland.

If the GFA requires open borders and free trade (as is claimed by the EU) then the two countries obviously need to have Common Travel Area and a Free Trade Agreement. Any other Treaties or Agreements should be subject to this.

No sh1t. And it is the UK who is leaving our union which enables this. That is why the UK are being asked to help solve the problem, not simpy back out without a solution and blame the EU for the resultant problem.

J Mysterio

Strazdas wrote: »

I referred to the BXP being a ghastly party and said I believed many of their members (electoral candidates) are closet racists.

I cannot comment on their 'supporters' or voters as I don't have enough information about them.

They are ghastly, uninformed, or both.

fash

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

So did Newcastle's but Nottingham voted to Leave.

The Referendum was UK wide so the fact that different areas voted different ways is meaningless.

Neither Newcastle but Nottingham are subject to a peace treaty based on membership of the EU to resolve a centuries long racist murderous oppression and suppression of Irish people by British.

fash

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Any solution needs to be accepted by all parties and you cannot constrain another country to accept a deal against its will.

Indeed - no backstop, no deal.

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Ireland and the EU have a relationship between them which means that they should be able to agree a solution. If not, maybe the ECJ can enforce one.

Indeed the solution is no backstop, no deal.

Forty Seven

fash wrote: »

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

So did Newcastle's but Nottingham voted to Leave.

The Referendum was UK wide so the fact that different areas voted different ways is meaningless.

Neither Newcastle but Nottingham are subject to a peace treaty based on membership of the EU to resolve a centuries long racist murderous oppression and suppression of Irish people by British.

Irish are not a seperate race so you can shuffle that card right back into your pack.

fash

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

It should be across the English Channel or as Francophones call it, "La Manche."

So long as the UK agreed to follow Ireland's rules, then sure thing.

Timistry

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Of course leave could win again, that would be fair enough, off with them.

Just like giving Boris a majority in the election, they would bring the locusts/rain of frogs etc on themselves and I will be stockpiling popcorn as the show will not be over for a long, long time.

The thing that gets me about brexit is how they STILL cant see what they voted for was a lie, a false dawn, a con. Even as the stark reality becomes fact, in law, no, lets forge ahead. In years gone by in the "empire" it would be treason and the gallows to attempt to destroy your economy. Hope that the vote today becomes law

BonnieSituation

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

One poll gives the Tories 340 seats in an October election, and just 266 if the UK is still in the EU in November:

https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1170019633702821891

Any poll showing Scotland with a CON seat isn't worth considering. They're beyond dusht there.

J Mysterio

Youth are rallying.

Nearly 200,000 people have applied to register to vote in just 72 hours, and more than half of them are under 35.

BBC

Timistry

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Of course leave could win again, that would be fair enough, off with them.

Just like giving Boris a majority in the election, they would bring the locusts/rain of frogs etc on themselves and I will be stockpiling popcorn as the show will not be over for a long, long time.

J Mysterio wrote: »

Youth are rallying.

Nearly 200,000 people have applied to register to vote in just 72 hours, and more than half of them are under 35.

BBC

Not the thick drones that the media portrays them to be then

Enzokk

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Personally I would have been quite happy for that, but I have never said that Ireland should leave the Single Market anyway. The Single Market is the EU's problem, they need to work out how you have full access to the Single Market (as is your right) without breaching the GFA which they claim is of paramount importance.

The EU has a solution but Brexiteers keep voting against it, 3 times now. You need to ask the likes of Mark Francois why he keeps delaying Brexit when a solution was provided for him. Your Company Director has also rejected the solution, it is not up to the EU to provide you with solutions for problems you keep creating. There are other areas that need their attention and frankly the UK isn't really that important that we will bend the rules for you only. Carry on like you have and you will find this out the hard way, taking jobs and possible lives on this island with you.

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Is no-one going to tell me why I'm ghastly then? If the allegation that was made cannot be backed up then it needs to be withdrawn.

Post above leads to this one, if you are happy to accept that lives are a price to pay for a "clean Brexit", then your views are ghastly. Your support for a organization whose views are racist would make your beliefs ghastly as well. I concede that you may not hold the same views as your Company Director, but I would question why you would be a supporter of a company if you didn't share those views.

By the way, did you know you could now become a member of the Brexit Club for only £100 per month? Now I am not one to say how you should spend your money but you could get VIP access to conferences and rallies. I am sure the Company Director would even be happy to have your picture taken with him for that investment. You would still not have a say in the direction the company takes though, that would not suit a private company. You would have to become a shareholder for that but the way the company is going they surely soon will be able to list on the stock market and you will then have your chance to buy shares to have a say.

The Brexit Party has launched a members' club - here's what you get for £100 a month

Nigel Farage's party, which is formally registered as a company, has found new ways increase cash support with a members' club.

For £100 a month, the party's website offers "VIP" access to conferences and rallies. Tickets to the conference tour ordinarily retail at £5 each, but the accompanying picture - of Farage standing at a party event surrounded by supporters - suggests that the club membership might secure you time with the company director himself.

briany wrote: »

I'm sure Cameron has regrets about Brexit, but wherever he is now, he has to be laughing his head off at the mess his old frenemy Johnson finds himself in.

I don't think he cares how Brexit is going, if he did he would have come out against it by now like Major has. Seeing as he has remained quiet and content in his home, I think the assumption that he is fine with the events unfolding is not a unreasonable assumption.

I do agree that he likely has some delight in the fact that his old Etonian schoolmate it having a tough time, its all banter among old school friends that makes for a great reunion at the school.

Enzokk

Another prime example of why the UK finds itself in the trouble it does,

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1170086060568846338?s=20

Boris Johnson would rather defy the law than ask for another Brexit delay, he has indicated, as Labour was accused of plunging Britain into a constitutional crisis

It takes some creative thinking to think that defying the law and ignoring a law passed by parliament as PM is not the reason for a constitutional crises, but the opposition somehow is to blame for that.

robinph

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

In Parliamentary elections a Scottish Vote counts more than an English one, just as in European Elections a UK vote counts less than that of any other nation.

France has a lower ratio of population to MEPs than the UK does. But its basically the same for each of Germany, France, UK, Italy and Spain give or take a few thousand people.

But don't let facts get in the way.

robinph

robinph wrote: »

France has a lower ratio of population to MEPs than the UK does. But its basically the same for each of Germany, France, UK, Italy and Spain give or take a few thousand people.

But don't let facts get in the way.

Surely that can't be. Germany and France literally rule Europe, don't they?

fash

Forty Seven wrote: »

Irish are not a seperate race so you can shuffle that card right back into your pack.

So which actions by the British in Ireland do you deny? Just to start:
The religious oppression? The genocidal actions of Cromwell?
The genocidal famine?
More recently, the gerrymandering and voter suppression in northern Ireland- a state specifically set up as a sectarian supremacist enclave where the state occasionally instructed companies to "fire the Catholics"? The 160 civilians (61 children) killed /murdered (and where such murder was suppressed by the British state) by British soldiers in northern Ireland? The various false imprisonments arising from that?
I would appreciate your response.

Forty Seven

J Mysterio wrote: »

Youth are rallying.

Nearly 200,000 people have applied to register to vote in just 72 hours, and more than half of them are under 35.

BBC

My partner registered to vote yesterday. She lives in Angus, currently Tory. She is voting Tory as the only viable option to keep out the snp and try to prevent independence. She is 31. Make of that what you will.

Tory candidate won a 6.6% majority in 2017. It's her first time in parliament and she is one of the youngest MPs at 30 years of age. Asked how she voted in the 2016 referendum she stated she 'didn't vote as the choice was too difficult'.

The youth ladies and gentlemen. Don't be expecting too much from the under 35s.

Forty Seven

fash wrote: »

Forty Seven wrote: »

Irish are not a seperate race so you can shuffle that card right back into your pack.

So which actions by the British in Ireland do you deny? Just to start:
The religious oppression? The genocidal actions of Cromwell?
The genocidal famine?
More recently, the gerrymandering and voter suppression in northern Ireland- a state specifically set up as a sectarian supremacist enclave where the state occasionally instructed companies to "fire the Catholics"? The 160 civilians (61 children) killed /murdered (and where such murder was suppressed by the British state) by British soldiers in northern Ireland? The various false imprisonments arising from that?
I would appreciate your response.

I deny any of it met the definition of racist. What with us being of the same race and all.

As for Cromwell. Did he affect you in any way? Can I drag up the Germans shooting at my grandfathers for some outrage aimed at the eu? That was a bit more recent and a tad more deadly. How far down the annals of history do you want to go?

Deal with the current crisis and get off your pity pot. ancient history has no place here.

20silkcut

Forty Seven wrote: »

I deny any of it met the definition of racist. What with us being of the same race and all.

As for Cromwell. Did he affect you in any way? Can I drag up the Germans shooting at my grandfathers for some outrage aimed at the eu? That was a bit more recent and a tad more deadly. How far down the annals of history do you want to go?

Deal with the current crisis and get off your pity pot. ancient history has no place here.

Well recent history has shown that since the formation of the EEC/EU, Europeans have stopped shooting at each other.
It has been the most murderous continent on the earth over the past few hundred years. Remember the age of imperialism and nationalism culminated in the industrial mass murder of human beings in purpose built facilities the likes of which this world has never seen before or since. And now we have politicians in the UK telling us that a return to nationalism is the way forward.

lawred2

Strazdas wrote: »

Would be a disastrous move. There's a fair number of closet racists and bigots among their ranks.

I'm not sure that they are in the closet about it

murphaph

Duane Dibbley wrote: »

What would be the options in the second referendum?

No deal crash out/revoke/May's deal. Those are the actual options the country has.

Rank them in order of your preference as with an Irish presidential election (instant runoff). If they still choose the crash out option good luck to them.

listermint

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

I would prefer an good and equitable Free Trade Agreement which means that the UK would not be in the Customs Union and have access to, not membership of, the single market. This essentially would be like other Free Trade Agreements. If this is not on offer then I would be happy to leave without a Withdrawal Agreement. This was my position before and during the Referendum, it's still my position now.

Beforehand....

It was never your position. I'd be quite sure you had no real feelings on the EU prior to 2015

Pretty much like any UK citizen. It's all been nothing but feelings and bluster since. I suppose that's what makes it ghastly for some but utterly hilarious for others. It's like making absolutely infactual nonsense 'feelings' dictate your entire thought process and life.

listermint

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is more likely than ever having heard the words today(yesterday) about a "gradual" introduction of rules that Ireland are expected to implement or otherwise other EU nations are to "back stop" these expectations if Ireland is unable or unwilling to comply with due to the political issues with separating NI from Ireland.

That's the least likely thing to happen. But there are idiotic posters on here with a hard on for it. Who might I have have been shown up time and time again. The same idiots who think irexit is a good thing and that anti EU sentiment is growing here despite positive sentiment at over 85%.


In short.

Ha

First Up

ThePanjandrum wrote:

I would prefer an good and equitable Free Trade Agreement which means that the UK would not be in the Customs Union and have access to, not membership of, the single market. This essentially would be like other Free Trade Agreements. If this is not on offer then I would be happy to leave without a Withdrawal Agreement. This was my position before and during the Referendum, it's still my position now.

They can negotiate a trade agreement but it won't be free trade and it won't allow for the free movement of goods and services into and out of the UK.

That is a game changer for time sensitive industries.

I wish those beating a drum for Brexit would take the time to understand how business actually works in the 21st century.

murphaph

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

The proper choice is easy.

The first referendum decided that the UK should leave.

Leaving under article 50 means leaving with a Withdrawal Agreement or Without one.

Therefore, to be consistent the choice needs to be between leaving with an agreed Withdrawal Agreement and leaving with no Withdrawal Agreement.

Putting Remain on the Referendum when it has been rejected is undemocratic.

So putting Labour on the ballot paper at the next general election would be undemocratic as the people rejected Labour in favour of the Tories 2 years ago?

Or asking the Irish to vote again on divorce in 1995 after they had voted against it in 1983 was undemocratic was it?

People change their minds. David Davis said a country where this is not allowed is not a democracy.

listermint

Forty Seven wrote: »

My partner registered to vote yesterday. She lives in Angus, currently Tory. She is voting Tory as the only viable option to keep out the snp and try to prevent independence. She is 31. Make of that what you will.

Tory candidate won a 6.6% majority in 2017. It's her first time in parliament and she is one of the youngest MPs at 30 years of age. Asked how she voted in the 2016 referendum she stated she 'didn't vote as the choice was too difficult'.

The youth ladies and gentlemen. Don't be expecting too much from the under 35s.

With all due respect. Your partner wouldn't be indicative of what's going on in the wider Scottish vote all polls indicate that. And the style of your posting here would also suggest a very leavery conversation set despite your assertions of the opposite.

So I'd expect nothing more.

You however brushing those feelings onto the rest of the younger vote is very questionable

fash

Forty Seven wrote: »

I deny any of it met the definition of racist. What with us being of the same race and all.

Since "race" is a social construct and not a precise scientific term of the art, one can make whatever assertions one likes as to where a dividing between groups of humans exist.

As the British actors who committed the various atrocities and acts of oppression against Irish certainly did believe that the Irish were "other", I would suggest that their beliefs in the matter- not yours -are more relevant.