Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

BorneTobyWilde

There was a time when two groups entered a room and did not leave it until they had an agreement, nowadays it's all twitter messages and sound bytes .
UK and EU should have showdown talks, and thrash a deal out, each need to give a bit. UK needs to be free to do it's own trade deals, but also have a deal with EU in place.
N.I can't be sorted. Build the dam border and be done with it, or allow N.I who voted to remain to remain, and **** the DUP.

N.I need to be separated from rest of UK on paper only.

sondagefaux

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Parliament have already had Meaningful Votes on most of the options. And rejected them.

So we even know how to rank them.

Majority Motion
6 Customs union
27 Referendum on the Withdrawal Agreement
70 Labour alternative
94 "Common Market 2.0"
109 Revocation to avoid No Deal
240 No Deal
283 "Managed No Deal"
313 EFTA membership


LOL

The words leave and remain were chosen to get a leave vote
The Brexit party logo was an arrow pointing to their box at the top of the ballot paper.

I can guarantee Leave will mount legal challenges against whatever form of wording is used

If Parliament sets out the wording in an Act of Parliament, there can be no legal challenges.

If the Brexit Party is convinced a majority of UK voters want No Deal Brexit, let them put that option to the people in a referendum:

No Deal v SM for all UK, with added CU for Northern Ireland.

No Deal would be trounced.

Joe_ Public

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I don't think it is remarkable. 52% voted to leave, and the parties are finally (3 years later) sorting into Brexit/Tory party for Leave at all costs, everyone else for Remain (or at least allow folks to vote again to Remain).


Whatever you may think about how utterly and pathetically useless Boris has been, he has been making all the right noises to attract Brexit voters.

Given there were 400 or so leave voting constituencies in the 2016 vote it seems a sound enough strategy on the surface, but problem with it is it puts a premium on Johnson mopping up the vast majority of that brexit vote as he will be potentially alienating the 40% of conservatives who voted to remain and would have been appalled by some of the shenanigans they witnessed in the Commons last week. Time will tell, but i suspect without making some kind of arrangement with farage - which is anathema to him - he will struggle to even get near a majority.

listermint

I can see that 400 odd voting leave constituencies falling dramatically. They didn't even know what leave meant and j refuse to believe they did. That's nonsense peddled by brexitukip

sondagefaux

Forty Seven wrote: »

Nonsense like this just feeds the leavers. The UK is a global power and will remain so. Permanent UN security council member, nuclear power, financial powerhouse, major tourist destination and cultural behemoth.
This type of belligerent schadenfreude is just uncalled for and does not help anyone.

A nuclear power that needs permission from the USA to launch missiles?

A financial behemoth? The City of London is a global financial centre because of the UK's membership of the EU.

Major tourist destination? So is Thailand, so is Greece. I presume they're major world powers?

Cultural behemoth? For how much longer?

Venice is now essentially a very large museum. It was once the capital of Europe's largest trading state.

Rome is no longer the most important urban centre for Europe, North Africa and the Middle East.

Nothing is certain in this world apart from change and death.

A Shropshire Lad

Sammy Wilsons face is getting even redder in the last few days. Must be something up

sondagefaux

Forty Seven wrote: »

I too share concerns over the rise of nationalism. I made a post about it a few pages back.

Imperialism however is history. The empire is history.

Which empire? I'm pretty sure that Wales was incorporated into England as a result of military conquest, Ireland came under English, later British, rule in similar fashion, that Northern Ireland's creation came about because of colonial settlement, and that Scotland's incorporation into the British state was partly as a result of a failed imperial venture.

The empire isn't history, it still exists. It's called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland but essentially that state is an imperial construct, largely created and sustained by English imperialism and domination of its immediate neighbours.

LiamoSail

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Remarkable really, considering the person currently at the helm. I think a lot of that comes from pure Brexit fatigue rather than any sort of coherent opinion on how best to proceed.

Given 52% were racist/foolish enough to vote for Brexit, it’s hardly surprising that a racist fool’s party can command such apparent support.

sondagefaux

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

in European Elections a UK vote counts less than that of any other nation.

The EU uses a system called degressive proportionality to allocate MEPs to its member states.

Basically, the larger the population, the less MEPs a country has per head of population.

The system is designed to ensure that member states with smaller populations have a greater say in the European Parliament to balance their smaller voting weight in the Council.

Germany has by far the largest population of any EU member state, so it has fewer MEPs per head of population than any other EU nation, including the UK.

Seth Brundle

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

Sammy Wilsons face is getting even redder in the last few days. Must be something up

His DUP buddy Jeffrey Donaldson reckons the UK will agree to some form of deal before leaving (note: there is only one deal on offer, which his party opposes!)

He also told the Kennedy Summer School that

a future solution for the Republic would be to join the Commonwealth.

Erm, okay. So which politician wants to end their career and demand that this question be put that to the people of the Republic?
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dup-mp-jeffrey-donaldson-says-uk-not-to-exit-eu-without-deal-1.4011376

ElectronVolt

He does realise the Commonwealth is just a purely symbolic organisation, without any trade role or legal powers, right?
Then again the DUP do tend to get caught up with symbols of identity and very little else.

sondagefaux

This bodes well.

New research by the British Chambers of Commerce (BCC) shows 41% of UK firms have done no risk assessment on the impact of Brexit.

The BCC survey canvassed the views of more than 1,500 business leaders.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49605461

bilston

Amber Rudd just found her spine which she had recently lost.

sondagefaux

Forty Seven wrote: »

To be fair you will hardly going to get a report saying he was welcomed in Wakefield from the Guardian. The guy shouting at him has a strong Irish accent so can we really take this at face value? Wakefield voted strongly for leave. 66.3% in favour. The Guardian is incredibly biased.

Voting Leave =/= voting Tory.

Harry Palmr

Amber Rudd has jumped.

Kermit.de.frog

Brexit hard man Steve Barclay has written an Op ed for the Telegraph tomorrow.

It's pay walled. Anyone have the gist of it?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/07/eu-setting-test-impossible-meet/

Headshot

sondagefaux wrote: »

This bodes well.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49605461

I always find it funny when Sky News do interviews in towns that voted to leave the EU but rely on tourism to survive.

What goes through peoples head ill never understand.

There's a reason why the wealthy and the Conservatives want Brexit and it's not to help the man on the street, it's to line their pockets and benefactors with more money

Tell me how

bilston wrote: »

Amber Rudd just found her spine which she had recently lost.

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Amber Rudd has jumped.

https://twitter.com/AmberRuddHR/status/1170429481879842817

Nody

sondagefaux wrote: »

This bodes well.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49605461

I honestly think a lot of this is down to people not realizing how interconnected service chains are today. Sure, your company don't import stuff from the continent but your supplier or your supplier's supplier may and that will suddenly throw a wrench into things not expected. And trying to switch supplier is likely to show all suppliers have a similar issue because once again they are importing for a reason and not for the funzies.

bilston

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Amber Rudd has jumped.

Resigned from the cabinet and according to Twitter has resigned the Tory whip as well.

listermint

The twitter bots are all over the Rudd thing too. Who funds this stuff. It's an awful shame twitter isn't being investigated for pumping multiple accounts spamming big announcements.

Headshot

Tell me how wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AmberRuddHR/status/1170429481879842817

She let herself and values down big time to even go into government with BJ in the first place and now the rats are escaping a sinking ship

I use to have a good bit of time for her but she has let herself down big time

Joe_ Public

I agree. Too little too late for Rudd to reclaim any honour as far as i'm concerned. Plus, why didn't she speak out last week when it was all going down and her colleagues could have done with her support?

Patser

Big blow to Boris's credibility and semblance of balance in his cabinet - its increasingly becoming just Boris and his cronies.

Edit: Wonder about the timing, will it make Sunday paper headlines, or are they all printed and gone now

Inquitus

Amber Rudd resigns from Cabinet and Party

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49623737

Strazdas

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Brexit hard man Steve Barclay has written an Op ed for the Telegraph tomorrow.

It's pay walled. Anyone have the gist of it?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/07/eu-setting-test-impossible-meet/

From the comments underneath, he appears to be going on about the "undemocratic backstop" : a nonsense article aimed at the Brexit faithful obviously

Headshot

Andrew Marr and Sophy Ridge tomorrow, going to be great tv

Tell me how

Inquitus wrote: »

Amber Rudd resigns from Cabinet and Party

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49623737

The entire article. Bold added by me.

Amber Rudd has quit the cabinet and Conservative Party saying she cannot "stand by" while "loyal moderate Conservatives are expelled".
The work and pensions secretary said she no longer believed leaving the EU with a deal was the government's "main objective".
She described the sacking of 21 Tory MPs on Tuesday as an "assault on decency and democracy".
The MP for Hastings and Rye supported Remain in 2016 referendum.

There are only 69 words in the article (breaking sat night news in fairness) but those last 11 words are fairly telling.
They are all but calling her a remoaner and will lead many readers to respond with 'Good riddance'.

Impartial BBC....

fr336

Everyone should keep an eye on Michael Gove. Unlike Boris, a true leaver. Someone who wants to leave but not no deal. Will he make a move for the leadership? Sounds mad but if Boris has another week like this anything is possible.

Strazdas

Patser wrote: »

Big blow to Boris's credibility and semblance of balance in his cabinet - its increasingly becoming just Boris and his cronies.

Edit: Wonder about the timing, will it make Sunday paper headlines, or are they all printed and gone now

Plenty of time for the later editions. Many haven't published their front page yet.