Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

VinLieger

What is with Johnsons obsession with answering every every journo by responding specifically with their first name?

boggerman1

Boris speaking rubbish,check.leavin on Oct 31st,check,our friends in EU,check.Leo is steady whilst delivering a few subtle digs at the hapless Johnson.

McMurphy

Boris completely sidestepped the questions relating to the border.

johnnyskeleton

VinLieger wrote: »

What is with Johnsons obsession with answering every every journo by responding specifically with their first name?

It's a trick that, if they know the journalist well, makes it seem like they are friends and that it is an intimate Q&A session rather than a formal setting. As a former journalist, there's a plausibility to the suggestion that he is friendly with them all.

However, calling the Taoiseach "Leo" just seems disrespectful on this occasion and his references to the Irish journalists somewhat patronising.

Call me Al

VinLieger wrote: »

What is with Johnsons obsession with answering every every journo by responding specifically with their first name?

He seems to think the overfamiliarity is endearing. It isn't. I find it very disrespectful, especially towards the Taoiseach.

I noted in Varadkar's statement, so competently delivered, to the effect of "we are your friend and ally, and how you exit the EU will dictate if that remains the case". Very pointed in its meaning.
And very sad that it has come to this.

Infini

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Boris completely sidestepped the questions relating to the border.

I'd be honest saw a report saying hes disbanded his negotiating team this morning and between his attitude and bluster hes only intending to do one thing: Crash the UK out of the EU. He's not interested in anyone else but himself and as far as I can see the only thing is if a crashout happens is that so long as the UK is run by him that any agreement reached post Brexit is only for basic humanitarian stuff like food and medicines. Everything else gets tariffed and if they try the singapore on thames approach then take countermeasures as needes.

It's sad its come to this but unless theres a last minute change by Parliment to force Boris out and have a caretaker appointed to undo this mess its gonna get messy and well need to protect ourselves against their toxic bolloxology.

Call me Al

Infini wrote: »

I'd be honest saw a report saying hes disbanded his negotiating team this morning and between his attitude and bluster hes only intending to do one thing: Crash the UK out of the EU. He's not interested in anyone else but himself and as far as I can see the only thing is if a crashout happens is that so long as the UK is run by him that any agreement reached post Brexit is only for basic humanitarian stuff like food and medicines. Everything else gets tariffed and if they try the singapore on thames approach then take countermeasures as needes.

It's sad its come to this but unless theres a last minute change by Parliment to force Boris out and have a caretaker appointed to undo this mess its gonna get messy and well need to protect ourselves against their toxic bolloxology.

And in that case the border, and the chaos that will follow, is the only real bargaining chip they have.

It doesn't get much more irresponsible, and it's all to save the Tory party skin.

coolshannagh28

The dynamic is interesting ; progress on the backstop could save Boris career and that may motivate him as he is ultimately a me feiner . There were strong hints that movement is possible.

Zubeneschamali

Akrasia wrote: »

He is still claiming that he is definitely going to leave on 31st of October even though he has no proposals for a negotiated deal and no desire to pass May's Deal.

No Deal was always his plan.

lawred2

Call me Al wrote: »

He seems to think the overfamiliarity is endearing. It isn't. I find it very disrespectful, especially towards the Taoiseach.

I noted in Varadkar's statement, so competently delivered, to the effect of "we are your friend and ally, and how you exit the EU will dictate if that remains the case". Very pointed in its meaning.
And very sad that it has come to this.

It can be - if it comes from a place of genuine origin..

Nothing about Johnson seems sincere or genuine so it comes across as manipulative and calculated.

It's playbook PR stuff with the aim of personalising the relationship with the interviewee so that they might be less likely to ask difficult questions. Strips them of their anonymity. He's forever pulling such stunts. Like that time he came out of his house carrying a tray of tea and biscuits for reporters camped outside his house.

He's a manipulator.

VinLieger

lawred2 wrote: »

It can't be - if it comes from a place of genuine origin..

Nothing about Johnson seems sincere or genuine so it comes across as manipulative and calculated.

It's playbook PR stuff with the aim of personalising the relationship with the interviewee so that they might be less likely to ask difficult questions. Strips them of their anonymity. He's forever pulling such stunts. Like that time he came out of his house carrying a tray of tea and biscuits for reporters camped outside his house.

He's a manipulator.

As much as i hate the man that tray of tea stunt was fantastic

lawred2

VinLieger wrote: »

As much as i hate the man that tray of tea stunt was fantastic

yeah it was - but it didn't come from a nice place

Itssoeasy

The answers boris Johnson gave when asked about the border was unbelievable. He might as well have read the betting results back as an answer.

josip

I'm not a Johnson fan, (for a while his name was banned in our house) but I've no problem with the dropping of titles and calling people by their names.
It's a bit snowflakey to be complaining that people are being disrespectful to someone because they didn't use their formal title.
When I go to see my TD in their clinic, am I supposed to address them as 'Minister'?

VinLieger

josip wrote: »

I'm not a Johnson fan, (for a while his name was banned in our house) but I've no problem with the dropping of titles and calling people by their names.
It's a bit snowflakey to be complaining that people are being disrespectful to someone because they didn't use their formal title.
When I go to see my TD in their clinic, am I supposed to address them as 'Minister'?

Id expect it to happen during formal diplomatic occasions between 2 countries leaders which this most definitely is, his refusal to use the title is trying to pretend they are friendly and any discussions will thus be far less acrimonious than they actually will be in reality. Also i think part of it is due to the ingrained conservative refusal to accept Ireland as an equal.

lawred2

josip wrote: »

I'm not a Johnson fan, (for a while his name was banned in our house) but I've no problem with the dropping of titles and calling people by their names.
It's a bit snowflakey to be complaining that people are being disrespectful to someone because they didn't use their formal title.
When I go to see my TD in their clinic, am I supposed to address them as 'Minister'?

well that's a false equivalence

Fionn1952

lawred2 wrote: »

josip wrote: »

I'm not a Johnson fan, (for a while his name was banned in our house) but I've no problem with the dropping of titles and calling people by their names.
It's a bit snowflakey to be complaining that people are being disrespectful to someone because they didn't use their formal title.
When I go to see my TD in their clinic, am I supposed to address them as 'Minister'?

well that's a false equivalence

I'd be curious how Boris Johnson would react to a foreign diplomat referring to the Queen as, 'Liz'.

ath262

from the BBC - confirmation that Parliament will be prorogued from the end of Today's sitting until 14th October.

Plaid Cymru looking at option to try and impeach Johnson if he ignores the no-deal law.

ancapailldorcha

It's weird watching the world's oldest political party (according to The Economist) tear itself apart like this. Since receiving Cameron's medicine in 2015, instead of healing the rift, the disease's progress has quickened and now the party looks genuinely to be beyond saving unless it is taken over by a new generation of leaders after a spell in the electoral wilderness.

If the party wins a general election, it will proceed with hard Brexit which will result in the permanent banishment of any talented One-Nation and Whig MP's in favour of recruiting yes-people who will be chosen for loyalty to Johnson and Brexit above all else. This from Philip Hammond indicates the current state of affairs:

https://twitter.com/PhilipHammondUK/status/1170633949879635968

The Conservatives used to genuinely care about the country. There's a reason that the party perceived as being that of fiscal responsibility and prudence kept funding Northern Ireland. Now, we have an unelected spad coming out with this:

https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1170979456611233792

The party of law and order now has MP's encouraging the leader to break the law:

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1170776874190090240?s=19

The party seems to have been completely captured by vested interests in the media and the financial sector who have managed to convince swathes of the public that their disaster capitalist project is a working class revolution when it is exactly the opposite, possibly because of the EU's anti-tax avoidance directive.

I know a civil servant in DoIT. He has been sanguine bordering on cheerful about a no deal Brexit but he's spent the last week picking my brain about moving to Ireland and is applying for jobs there. He adamantly refuses to live in the UK under a Johnson government and I do not blame him. If Johnson wins and implements no deal, this country's standing and economy along with the quality of life of many of its citizens and residents will be irrevocably damaged. If the remain coalition actually comes together and can engineer some sort of victory and then call an informed referendum to bring this charade to an end then further damage should be prevented and hopefully they can work towards healing the divide in this country that the Tories along with several identikit neoliberal politicians from Labour and the Liberal Democrats have exploited and expanded.

Zubeneschamali

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

If the remain coalition actually comes together and can engineer some sort of victory and then call an informed referendum to bring this charade to an end then further damage should be prevented

I hope this can be done in the near term as it stops the damage to Ireland and the EU, but...

The ERG wing of the Tory Party + Brexit Party supporters will scream betrayal and treachery, and will never accept a Remain victory, and will be a permanent presence in Westminster, waiting for a chance to seize the wheel and steer the UK bus back towards the cliff.

And if Scotland ends up leaving, the Westminster maths swings back their direction.

ancapailldorcha

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I hope this can be done in the near term as it stops the damage to Ireland and the EU, but...

The ERG wing of the Tory Party + Brexit Party supporters will scream betrayal and treachery, and will never accept a Remain victory, and will be a permanent presence in Westminster, waiting for a chance to seize the wheel and steer the UK bus back towards the cliff.

And if Scotland ends up leaving, the Westminster maths swings back their direction.

The histrionics from the ERG and the Brexit party are inevitable once Brexit is exposed for what it is. They'll continue to spout vitriol and blame the EU for everything under the sun. This is unavoidable.

I wasn't confident about the Remain parties working together but Johnson's proroguing of Parliament seems to have been the straw that broke the camel's back. Time will tell of course but there's more reason to be cheerful than before.

Water John

It now seems that No 10, despite all those saying they'd romp in on an election, feel they would not get a majority. They know they have to capture 35 seats they never won before.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1171017492065636352?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1171017492065636352&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2Flive%2F2019%2Fsep%2F09%2Fbrexit-latest-news-eu-no-deal-bill-royal-assent-boris-johnson-parliament-politics-live

That is what may be tempering Johnson. He now knows he won't win a GE.

A Dub in Glasgo

ZE700 (RAF BAe 146) took off from Baldonnel about 10 minutes ago, presume that is Johnson heading back to London

briany

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I hope this can be done in the near term as it stops the damage to Ireland and the EU, but...

The ERG wing of the Tory Party + Brexit Party supporters will scream betrayal and treachery, and will never accept a Remain victory, and will be a permanent presence in Westminster, waiting for a chance to seize the wheel and steer the UK bus back towards the cliff.

And if Scotland ends up leaving, the Westminster maths swings back their direction.

The ERG are seriously gambling with the future of the Conservative party. If they've miscalculated on the level of public support for their views then the party is going to split and they'll never have the parliamentary arithmetic to do a speck of what they want.

Water John

Some of the ERG have been outliers all their political life. That is what they are used to, they are not used to having influence. They will retreat to that obscure corner quite easily.

99problems1

Just brexit it ffs.

A neverending extension is good for no one. Would do insane damage despite having no answer.

Just cut the cord and be done with it and if there is damage we can focus on recovering.

Zubeneschamali

briany wrote: »

The ERG are seriously gambling with the future of the Conservative party. If they've miscalculated on the level of public support for their views then the party is going to split and they'll never have the parliamentary arithmetic to do a speck of what they want.

The ERG don't really care - there will be enough Little Englanders in the heartlands to keep them all on the backbenches for life, and they are natural backbenchers. Doing actual stuff means compromising and facing reality.

briany

Water John wrote: »

It now seems that No 10, despite all those saying they'd romp in on an election, feel they would not get a majority. They know they have to capture 35 seats they never won before.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1171017492065636352?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1171017492065636352&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2Flive%2F2019%2Fsep%2F09%2Fbrexit-latest-news-eu-no-deal-bill-royal-assent-boris-johnson-parliament-politics-live

That is what may be tempering Johnson. He now knows he won't win a GE.

Oof. Johnson has to be seriously considering that the only way forward is to dig the heels in. I wonder how much he's coming around to the idea that prosecution or prison is worth it? He's already hated by one half of the country, so why not forget about them and embrace the other half even more by making himself the 'Nelson Mandela' of Brexit and doing time for his beliefs?

The other option is maybe personally insulting Macron and his nation in the hope that it would make France double down on their threats to veto yet another extension.

On the domestic front, a seat count of 300 makes them the largest party, but so toxic that nobody outside of the DUP will do a deal with them, and that wouldn't be enough for a majority. So, again, actually legislating for a no-deal Brexit becomes virtually impossible, and it can only be brought about by the EU cutting them loose.

Water John

The rabble given voice by the likes of Farage, Johnson Cummings et al, have to be taught that they do not speak for the people. That is why I would collaborate in any way possible with those in the UK who don't want a Crash Out Brexit.

josip

VinLieger wrote: »

Id expect it to happen during formal diplomatic occasions between 2 countries leaders which this most definitely is, his refusal to use the title is trying to pretend they are friendly and any discussions will thus be far less acrimonious than they actually will be in reality. Also i think part of it is due to the ingrained conservative refusal to accept Ireland as an equal.

Perhaps we see it that way when we want to confirm our bias.
He addresses all PMs by their first name.
Whether you like it or not, he's consistent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxVKDeM5LJ8

lawred2 wrote: »

well that's a false equivalence

My TD is also a Minister.