Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

Strazdas

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's a feeling I've had almost since he became PM. Everything he's done with his 'no deal' threats, seemed more aimed at a domestic audience than the EU. It's parliament that's prevented a deal and the one obstacle that he needs to get past, regardless of what deal he's pursuing. So wind down the clock, wind up the rhetoric and frighten them into a corner where they feel thay have no choice.

Parliament has been surprisingly resilient though. So still up in the air.

A lot of the talk coming out of the EU seems to be on the NI only backstop. It appears to be the only way the UK can possibly leave with a WA.

Both Tony Connelly and Katya Adler are focusing on the NI only backstop in their reports this evening.

gooch2k9

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Dont know if anyone saw the tory spad on sky news earlier, forget the name, but he is currently unemployed since Amber Rudd's resignation and felt willing and able to speak freely about the party's election chances. According to him, extensive private polling and focus groups by No.10 over the past few weeks had led them to conclude it would be a "tough election" for them. The number mentioned was 295-300 seats which was the top number he felt they could reach. They would lose seats in London, the south-west and Scotland and felt they'd have to win 35 seats in areas they'd never won before and that was just to stand still!

Potential bait for the opposition tonight? They haven't really tried much to this point, bar the chicken stuff.

Rjd2

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Dont know if anyone saw the tory spad on sky news earlier, forget the name, but he is currently unemployed since Amber Rudd's resignation and felt willing and able to speak freely about the party's election chances. According to him, extensive private polling and focus groups by No.10 over the past few weeks had led them to conclude it would be a "tough election" for them. The number mentioned was 295-300 seats which was the top number he felt they could reach. They would lose seats in London, the south-west and Scotland and felt they'd have to win 35 seats in areas they'd never won before and that was just to stand still!

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1171046516452204544

Seems to be a lot of disinformation out their to try and force a general election regarding that poll. Oddly coming out just as Boris trying to force an early election...:rolleyes:

I have said before that it will be Labour coalition after next election, but will admit I could be wrong. 4 parties all doing well in one poll or other,,if John Curtice is reluctant to predict what will happen,,,well:eek:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-general-election-poll-boris-johnson-conservatives-labour-lib-dems-vote-a9097216.html

devnull

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Dont know if anyone saw the tory spad on sky news earlier, forget the name, but he is currently unemployed since Amber Rudd's resignation and felt willing and able to speak freely about the party's election chances. According to him, extensive private polling and focus groups by No.10 over the past few weeks had led them to conclude it would be a "tough election" for them. The number mentioned was 295-300 seats which was the top number he felt they could reach. They would lose seats in London, the south-west and Scotland and felt they'd have to win 35 seats in areas they'd never won before and that was just to stand still!

It's a deliberate, mischievous leak in order to try and hoodwink people into voting for an election. That much is completely obvious.

If any opposition leader falls for it they'll be the most gullible politician of all time.

Joe_ Public

devnull wrote: »

It's a deliberate, mischievous leak in order to try and hoodwink people into voting for an election. That much is completely obvious.

If any opposition leader falls for it they'll be the most gullible politician of all time.

I suppose anything's possible, but i dont think so all the same. Doubt very much it was any sort of government manoeuvre, as the guy releasing the info to Sky this morning is an ex member of the government (Jason Stein, as named above). Nor do i think it can achieve anything only to put the tories position regarding an election into focus and embarrass them a little further. Not going to affect the opposition one way or the other.

briany

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I suppose anything's possible, but i dont think so all the same. Doubt very much it was any sort of government manoeuvre, as the guy releasing the info to Sky this morning is an ex member of the government (Jason Stein, as named above). Nor do i think it can achieve anything only to put the tories position regarding an election into focus and embarrass them a little further. Not going to affect the opposition one way or the other.

The opposition will have done their own polling anyway.

Joe_ Public

briany wrote: »

The opposition will have done their own polling anyway.

Oh, i'm sure they have and are, but as mentioned above, the idea of labour or other opposition parties falling for such a basic ruse as the one suggested just seems so unlikely that i have to admit i never considered it for a second when i was watching the interview this morning. I suppose its possible, but i'm more inclined to think it was just a guy, maybe a bit peeved at losing his job, giving out information they'd probably prefer to keep in house.

PropJoe10

J Mysterio wrote: »

I've clipped his resignation speech here.

https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/912439c0-627c-4f85-a4ba-14c533a880dd?in=15:37:30&out=15:46:04

As pointed out, the Tory front bench are absolutely loathsome. They can't even give a little clap for a man for 22 years of service to their national parliament (10 years as Speaker). Whether you like him or not, for gods sake have some decency.

Common decency has long since forsaken the Conservative Party. When you see the like of Ken Clarke, Rory Stewart and Philip Hammond ejected for standing by traditional Tory principles, then it really tells you all you need to know about the current rabble on the front bench.

jochenstacker

Nooooo! Bercow resigns!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/john-bercow-quits-resignation-retirement-brexit-parliament-speaker-eu-a9097831.html

Bit cynical

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's a feeling I've had almost since he became PM. Everything he's done with his 'no deal' threats, seemed more aimed at a domestic audience than the EU. It's parliament that's prevented a deal and the one obstacle that he needs to get past, regardless of what deal he's pursuing. So wind down the clock, wind up the rhetoric and frighten them into a corner where they feel thay have no choice.

Parliament has been surprisingly resilient though. So still up in the air.

Well the individual MPs in parliament are fairly well protected from the economic consequences of a no deal exit. Their constituencies are not, but the MPs can blame Johnson for that even though, in many cases, it was the MPs who voted against the deal when they were given the chance.

Headshot

I'm gutted to see John Bercow resign. He was a brilliant speaker but isnt it telling the Toris remained seated when he announced he was leaving. Such a nasty party.

I see the buzzards are already surrounding the carcass looking to get nominated when John steps down. They have no decency or respect at all.

Joe_ Public

Headshot wrote: »

I'm gutted to see John Bercow resign. He was a brilliant speaker but isnt it telling the Toris remained seated when he announced he was leaving. Such a nasty party.

I see the buzzards are already surrounding the carcass looking to get nominated when John steps down. They have no decency or respect at all.

His last great act, though, will be to ensure the next speaker is elected by THIS parliament and not the NEXT one, whenever that is, so i'm not too suprised those tories were fairly peeved with him right to the end.

Professor Moriarty

Grieve talking about whistleblowers and scandal in HoC. Something is rotten in the state...

Capt'n Midnight

Akrasia wrote: »

He'd want to be fair sick to not be able to send a letter when he doesn't even have to buy his own stamps

After using the "takes a week for the ink" to dry to delay the last queens speech they may try the "it's in the post" routine. :pac:


*Tracking and Signature services to Ireland, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Switzerland, Belgium, Sweden, Austria and Luxembourg have a delivery aim of 3-4 working days.


Loss claims should not be submitted until after 20 working days after the due delivery date for items going to Europe


But I'm sure the EU would allow a very short extension to allow for such unforeseen irregularities

Igotadose

Headshot wrote: »

I'm gutted to see John Bercow resign. He was a brilliant speaker but isnt it telling the Toris remained seated when he announced he was leaving. Such a nasty party.

I see the buzzards are already surrounding the carcass looking to get nominated when John steps down. They have no decency or respect at all.

Remarkable none of the government ministers applauded, even when Bercow thanked his family. What a petty bunch.

If it's a minority government after the next election, couldn't the election of Speaker be pretty challenging? Every party in coalition could nominate someone...

Professor Moriarty

Igotadose wrote: »

Remarkable none of the government ministers applauded, even when Bercow thanked his family. What a petty bunch.

If it's a minority government after the next election, couldn't the election of Speaker be pretty challenging? Every party in coalition could nominate someone...

The bookies' favourite is Lindsay Hoyle, deputy speaker.

Joe_ Public

Igotadose wrote: »

Remarkable none of the government ministers applauded, even when Bercow thanked his family. What a petty bunch.

If it's a minority government after the next election, couldn't the election of Speaker be pretty challenging? Every party in coalition could nominate someone...

Michael Gove at least did pay him a fairly decent tribute but even that felt a bit two-handed and it is only a couple of years since Gove, along with William Hague, tried to have Bercow removed. Bercow got a standing ovation after that devious plot to oust him failed too.

briany

Igotadose wrote: »

Remarkable none of the government ministers applauded, even when Bercow thanked his family. What a petty bunch.

If it's a minority government after the next election, couldn't the election of Speaker be pretty challenging? Every party in coalition could nominate someone...

You'd need someone who commands respect across the house. Tough ask.

Joe_ Public

As mentioned above, Bercow's replacement will be nominated before the end of this parliament. No doubt, a parting gift from him to his colleagues sitting to his right.

Headshot

oh no not that bloody blonde woman back on the panel on Sky News again

Butter wouldnt melt in BJ.....

Enzokk

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Grieve talking about whistleblowers and scandal in HoC. Something is rotten in the state...

You have Cummings who is in contempt of parliament and you have the heads of Vote Leave at the heart of government, is it any wonder they would act dishonestly? Listening to Gove it makes my head spin that he was on of the best the Tories had to put forward as leader. Liars and charlatans who have no respect for the law or the people they are supposed to serve.

A Shropshire Lad

Headshot wrote: »

oh no not that bloody blonde woman back on the panel on Sky News again

Butter wouldnt melt in BJ.....

Saw her the other night too. All she kept saying over and over again was "Boris has a vision for the country..."



The obsession the media have with being 'Balanced' really throws up some oddballs.

Joe_ Public

She's just used the word "frit" which should automatically ban her from ever appearing on a political talk show again. Its just a tory pejorative against labour that has no place in serious political discussion, and in parliament too for that matter.

Harry Palmr

Grieve amendment carried

J Mysterio

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Grieve amendment carried

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1171129272511188993

Infini

Joe_ Public wrote: »

His last great act, though, will be to ensure the next speaker is elected by THIS parliament and not the NEXT one, whenever that is, so i'm not too suprised those tories were fairly peeved with him right to the end.

Basically a case of "Up yours" to the Troll Party for thinking they could break convention by running against the speaker in an election. Fair play to him as well he found a way to keep control of procedings out of an increasingly broken and utterly incompetent and pathetic NewKIPTory party.

J Mysterio wrote: »

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1171129272511188993

Well, well, well I wonder what kind of embarassing, underhanded and regressive secrets well find out when this all comes out it's another landmine for these tools that might expose even more of their hypocracy and stupidity.

gooch2k9

How is anyone to know if what the government releases on the basis of this humble address is everything there is? We know they aren't trustworthy.

Professor Moriarty

Enzokk wrote: »

You have Cummings who is in contempt of parliament and you have the heads of Vote Leave at the heart of government, is it any wonder they would act dishonestly? Listening to Gove it makes my head spin that he was on of the best the Tories had to put forward as leader. Liars and charlatans who have no respect for the law or the people they are supposed to serve.

Fairly soon now, you'll see what is left of the Tory party morphing into the Nationalist Party of England. With the EDL as their henchmen.

J Mysterio

gooch2k9 wrote: »

How is anyone to know if what the government releases on the basis of this humble address is everything there is? We know they aren't trustworthy.

Precisely. But - I suppose - if something were to later be revealed which had been suppressed now, that would be damaging. So they have to make that calculation. Nonetheless, I expect they will/ would try to suppress anything and everything.

It's actually quite a strange moment - the thing implicitly indicates a lack of trust in the honor of 'right honourable members' and their advisors, from other members of parliament. I suppose that shouldnt be a surprise but really, this is the most farcical, untrustworthy cabinet ever assembled.

And in relation to that point:

https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1171048539255922688
https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1171130775951106050

MikeSoys

so they must provide comms on yellow hammer etc... but even the commons and news indicate this included whatapp msgs ..i thought whatsapp is encrypted? am i missing something?