Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

Joe_ Public

gooch2k9 wrote: »

How is anyone to know if what the government releases on the basis of this humble address is everything there is? We know they aren't trustworthy.

True enough, but dont forget this will be a direction from Her Maj to the named individuals to release their correspondence in relation to Operation Yellowhammer. My feelings would be they would want to think very carefully before any decision to play fast and loose with the directive.

devnull

gooch2k9 wrote: »

How is anyone to know if what the government releases on the basis of this humble address is everything there is? We know they aren't trustworthy.

What's the odds on people now using burner phones after this and suddenly having a lot more storage space on their device than they had a few days ago and having less emails in their account than they had previously?

Perhaps they could take advice from people who worked for Anglo Irish Bank?

A Shropshire Lad

I imagine all relevent messages were deleted today

Professor Moriarty

MikeSoys wrote: »

so they must provide comms on yellow hammer etc... but even the commons and news indicate this included whatapp msgs ..i thought whatsapp is encrypted? am i missing something?

People will be given a choice. Lie or tell the truth. Lying, if it is discovered, won't bode well for one's future given that it is the sovereign national parliament that is asking the questions.

J Mysterio

MikeSoys wrote: »

so they must provide comms on yellow hammer etc... but even the commons and news indicate this included whatapp msgs ..i thought whatsapp is encrypted? am i missing something?

Yes, they have asked for these to be provided. Encrypted and unencrypted both.

Im sure the government would claim the national interest in ignoring this for the most part, so for me the thing is a matter of principle for it to pass the house, more than anything.

J Mysterio

devnull wrote: »

What's the odds on people now using burner phones after this and suddenly having a lot more storage space on their device than they had a few days ago and having less emails in their account than they had previously?

Perhaps they could take advice from people who worked for Anglo Irish Bank?

Also reminds one of the Hillary scandal whereby she was destroyed for using a private email server for government business. I'd be surprised if similar wasn't prevalent in Westminster also to be honest.

Harry Palmr

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

I imagine all relevent messages were deleted today

I think that sort of thing can be detected in most apps.

20silkcut

What’s app messages can only be deleted by the sender and the evidence of the deletion is left in the context of the chat.
If conversations are released with a lot of deleted messages well then it will be obvious they are hiding something.

Remember the Belfast rape case last year used fairly damning what’s app group chats in evidence.

MikeSoys

J Mysterio wrote: »

MikeSoys wrote: »

so they must provide comms on yellow hammer etc... but even the commons and news indicate this included whatapp msgs ..i thought whatsapp is encrypted? am i missing something?

Yes, they have asked for these to be provided. Encrypted and unencrypted both.

Im sure the government would claim the national interest in ignoring this for the most part, so for me the thing is a matter of principle for it to pass the house, more than anything.

yes i guess they would need to unlock their phone and show them the msg trail.. as opposed to directly reading msgs remotely.. possibly edging toward GDPR issues :-)

Itssoeasy

Harry Palmr wrote: »

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

I imagine all relevent messages were deleted today

I think that sort of thing can be detected in most apps.

So we could have a question to one of the people involved as to why they deleted messages at 19:54pm today given what had happened moments before ? Interesting.

Professor Moriarty

J Mysterio wrote: »

Yes, they have asked for these to be provided. Encrypted and unencrypted both.

Im sure the government would claim the national interest in ignoring this for the most part, so for me the thing is a matter of principle for it to pass the house, more than anything.

Apparently, this can't be legally enforced according to Cox. So it's basically symbolic unless it's pursued by another motion whenever parliament gets to sit again.

MikeSoys

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Harry Palmr wrote: »

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

I imagine all relevent messages were deleted today

I think that sort of thing can be detected in most apps.

So we could have a question to one of the people involved as to why they deleted messages at 19:54pm today given what had happened moments before ? Interesting.

prob a seperate issue out the law itself.. this sort of thing will lead people not having anything in writing again... can the eu just kick them out of eu and protect us from their mess...

Joe_ Public

The embarrassment for the government is the thing really, not surprised Johnson isnt showing his face tonight. Four major votes since becoming PM, four whopping defeats. He's surely in the record books already, and he aint finished yet by a long shot. His only "achievement" has been proroguing parliament for which he may yet pay a heavy price.

MikeSoys

they need a general election to know the wishes of the people.. vote boris might mean no deal if no orderly exit.. boris or corbyn.. difficult choices

serfboard

J Mysterio wrote: »

As pointed out, the Tory front bench are absolutely loathsome. They can't even give a little clap for a man for 22 years of service to their national parliament (10 years as Speaker). Whether you like him or not, for gods sake have some decency.

There is a famous speech in the career of Senator Joe McCarthy, given by Joseph Nye Welch in the Army-McCarthy hearings that precipitated the end of McCarthy's career and which applies here. Addressing McCarthy, Welch said:

Joseph Nye Welch wrote:

Until this moment ... I think I never really gauged your cruelty or your recklessness ... Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?

A Shropshire Lad

Tories saying that everyone should obey the law..... but they will interpret the law in any way they see fit

J Mysterio

RE the disclosure of documents... Cummings has already been found in contempt of Parliament. The repercussions of which have been... Nothing?

Joe_ Public

J Mysterio wrote: »

RE the disclosure of documents... Cummings has already been found in contempt of Parliament. The repercussions of which have been... Nothing?

Not sure what sanctions would or could be in place for contempt of parliament but am pretty sure the denial of access to westminster should be an absolute minimum. Should have been escorted off the premises that time he was baiting Corbyn in the main lobby imo.

A Shropshire Lad

Who gives Royal Assent if the monarch is incapaciated (ill or gone nuts or something like that ) ?

Joe_ Public

Possibly interesting....

https://twitter.com/DecLawn/status/1171099647655460864

Professor Moriarty

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Possibly interesting....

https://twitter.com/DecLawn/status/1171099647655460864

Nice quote from Edward Carson in 1921:

"What a fool I was. I was only a puppet and so was Ulster, and so was Ireland in the political game that was to get the Conservative Party into power."

Joe_ Public

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Nice quote from Edward Carson in 1921:

"What a fool I was. I was only a puppet and so was Ulster, and so was Ireland in the political game that was to get the Conservative Party into power."

Excellent!

And Churchill made more than a token effort to sell them out in 1940 so that should ring a few alarm bells for Arlene & Co. Was only last week i was listening to Bridgen bang on about no deal and GATT24 and all the old brexity shibboleths. Quite a shift in that space of time if true.

Professor Moriarty

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Excellent!

And Churchill made more than a token effort to sell them out in 1940 so that should ring a few alarm bells for Arlene & Co. Was only last week i was listening to Bridgen bang on about no deal and GATT24 and all the old brexity shibboleths. Quite a shift in that space of time if true.

Here's the thing. If such a referendum were held, it would probably pass.

Headshot

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Here's the thing. If such a referendum were held, it would probably pass.

The polls in NI are very much in favour of it and why not? They are getting the best of two worlds and could transform NI

Professor Moriarty

Headshot wrote: »

The polls in NI are very much in favour of it and why not? They are getting the best of two worlds and could transform NI

Exactly.

Professor Moriarty

J Mysterio wrote: »

Blackfords tuppence

https://twitter.com/Doozy_45/status/1171137475198300166

He's right.

LeinsterDub

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

Who gives Royal Assent if the monarch is incapaciated (ill or gone nuts or something like that ) ?

A regent. In this case Charles

A Shropshire Lad

Didnt know Ringo Starr was a Brexiteer

John would not approve

LeinsterDub

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Possibly interesting....

https://twitter.com/DecLawn/status/1171099647655460864

That certainly isn't going to happen in less than 52 days.

Dyr

The whole front bench not applauding the speaker is very bad form but also very strange...you wonder if they knew it was coming and cabinet had made a decision to send out some night watchmen to bat (or sit) or were they caught on the hop by his announcement.