Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

WomanSkirtFan8

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Nice quote from Edward Carson in 1921:

"What a fool I was. I was only a puppet and so was Ulster, and so was Ireland in the political game that was to get the Conservative Party into power."

beautiful and very accurate too.

Charles Babbage

LeinsterDub wrote: »

That certainly isn't going to happen in less than 52 days.

No reason why not.
Recall parliament, they would probably vote for this proposal.

Imreoir2

LeinsterDub wrote: »

That certainly isn't going to happen in less than 52 days.

Of course not, but an extension is UK law at this point. Can't see any way Brexit happens at the end of October so there should be plenty of time for NI to give itself the Backstop as a Christmas presant if the UK government want to take that escape route from their hopelessly contradictory stance on Brexit.

Professor Moriarty

LeinsterDub wrote: »

That certainly isn't going to happen in less than 52 days.

No, but if Johnson went to the EU and asked for an extension based on accepting the WA after a positive NI backstop referendum, then the EU would probably grant it. If the ERG are happy to dump the DUP then their glove puppet will be equally happy to dump the DUP.

WomanSkirtFan8

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Here's the thing. If such a referendum were held, it would probably pass.

Absolutely and it'd probably pass with quite a over whelming majority too.:)

ElectronVolt

WomanSkirtFan8 wrote: »

Absolutely and it'd probably pass with quite a over whelming majority too.:)

Unless Stormont manages to reassemble, I don't really see who'd be calling it though.

Professor Moriarty

WomanSkirtFan8 wrote: »

Absolutely and it'd probably pass with quite a over whelming majority too.:)

58% would vote in favour of remaining aligned with the EU and having a border down the Irish sea.

ElectronVolt

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

58% would vote in favour of remaining aligned with the EU and having a border down the Irish sea.

I'd have no doubt it would pass by a big margin, but it's just how would the process of actually arranging such a referendum in this kind of time remaining even happen?

It would need to be called today.

Joe_ Public

ElectronVolt wrote: »

Unless Stormont manages to reassemble, I don't really see who'd be calling it though.

As johnson says, where there's a will there's a way....

As for the issue with time, i wonder is there a chance the EU, assuming they're au fait with an extension, will insist on a longer period than january and so bringing the possibility of a referendum, not just in NI, into the picture.

Professor Moriarty

ElectronVolt wrote: »

I'd have no doubt it would pass by a big margin, but it's just how would the process of actually arranging such a referendum in this kind of time remaining even happen?

It would need to be called today.

Well, very recently, the Tories have been making noises about reintroducing direct rule...

bazermc

Well at least JRM is sitting upright this time

Itssoeasy

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

Who gives Royal Assent if the monarch is incapaciated (ill or gone nuts or something like that ) ?

The privy council ? That's a guess. If the sitting monarch is out action from reading history, it's either the heir to the throne.

Itssoeasy

ElectronVolt wrote: »

WomanSkirtFan8 wrote: »

Absolutely and it'd probably pass with quite a over whelming majority too.:)

Unless Stormont manages to reassemble, I don't really see who'd be calling it though.

The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland I presume ?

josip

As someone earlier posted, they quite possibly already know what it is they want from the disclosure and release request.
And they may already have someone on the inside who wants to release it but may be unable to do so for fear of prosecution or the Official Secrets Act.
This is a way to legitimise obtaining the information.
Could be a slam dunk.

ath262

dream team upcoming the the EU Trade Commission - Tony Connelly understands that big Phil will be confirmed as EU's chief trade negotiator... He will be assisted by the secretary general of DG Trade by Sabine Weyand, one of the leading negotiators in Michel Barnier's Brexit Task Force

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1171148606964994049

fash

J Mysterio wrote: »

Precisely. But - I suppose - if something were to later be revealed which had been suppressed now, that would be damaging. So they have to make that calculation. Nonetheless, I expect they will/ would try to suppress anything and everything.

Apparently aim is for the documents already prepared for disclosure as part of the recent Scottish case but which could not be provided finally as nobody could sign witness statement without facing jail. As documents prepped for that purpose, they are in the hands of lawyers already, so must be handed over on pain of expulsion of the lawyer from the profession. So no way not to provide. According to David Allen Green anyway...

Infini

ath262 wrote: »

dream team upcoming the the EU Trade Commission - Tony Connelly understands that big Phil will be confirmed as EU's chief trade negotiator... He will be assisted by the secretary general of DG Trade by Sabine Weyand, one of the leading negotiators in Michel Barnier's Brexit Task Force

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1171148606964994049

I get the feeling they're gonna put out the big guns to utterly destroy them so long as the tories are anywhere near the wheel. "Negotiations" will likely end up somewhere between "we came here to laugh at you" and "You'll get nothing and like it" at least until this bunch of chancers is finally dislodged and people with actual integrity and more importantly credibility and trust takes the wheel at the UK to negotiate properly.

Professor Moriarty

As an aside, Varadkar's reference to Ireland being Johnson's Athena was very clever. There are a number of parallels. Firstly, in Greek mythology, Athena was the goddess who knocked Hercules out when he went mad, killed his own children and was about to kill his father. So Ireland/Athena is restraining an insane Johnson/Hercules. Secondly, Athena was sometimes known as the goddess of democracy. So Ireland/Athena represents democracy versus a violent Johnson/Hercules. Thirdly, Athena was also Hercules' half-sister which symbolises the historic ties between Ireland and the UK.

Itssoeasy

ath262 wrote: »

dream team upcoming the the EU Trade Commission - Tony Connelly understands that big Phil will be confirmed as EU's chief trade negotiator... He will be assisted by the secretary general of DG Trade by Sabine Weyand, one of the leading negotiators in Michel Barnier's Brexit Task Force

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1171148606964994049

Oh the uk negotiators are in for an awakening. I've never met him but I know people who have and are friends with him.

Spanish Eyes

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

As an aside, Varadkar's reference to Ireland being Johnson's Athena was very clever. There are a number of parallels. Firstly, in Greek mythology, Athena was the goddess who knocked Hercules out when he went mad, killed his own children and was about to kill his father. So Ireland/Athena is restraining an insane Johnson/Hercules. Secondly, Athena was sometimes known as the goddess of democracy. So Ireland/Athena represents democracy versus a violent Johnson/Hercules. Thirdly, Athena was also Hercules' half-sister which symbolises the historic ties between Ireland and the UK.

Carefully crafted words towards a scholar in these matters :P

An Ciarraioch

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Carefully crafted words towards a scholar in these matters :P

Apparently, his speechwriter is Patrick Geoghegan, of Talking History fame.

volchitsa

ath262 wrote: »

dream team upcoming the the EU Trade Commission - Tony Connelly understands that big Phil will be confirmed as EU's chief trade negotiator... He will be assisted by the secretary general of DG Trade by Sabine Weyand, one of the leading negotiators in Michel Barnier's Brexit Task Force

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1171148606964994049

This delights me.

An Ciarraioch

BBC Newsnight confirm the NI backstop rumours:

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-politics-49639294?__twitter_impression=true

Water John

Weemcd posted about Bercow, 'I'd love to buy him a pint.'
So you'll go to the bar and say I want to 'ORDER ORDER' two pints.

Dyr

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

As an aside, Varadkar's reference to Ireland being Johnson's Athena was very clever. There are a number of parallels. Firstly, in Greek mythology, Athena was the goddess who knocked Hercules out when he went mad, killed his own children and was about to kill his father. So Ireland/Athena is restraining an insane Johnson/Hercules. Secondly, Athena was sometimes known as the goddess of democracy. So Ireland/Athena represents democracy versus a violent Johnson/Hercules. Thirdly, Athena was also Hercules' half-sister which symbolises the historic ties between Ireland and the UK.

If memory serves Athena helped Hercules out in numerous ways during his Labours, could be a reference to any of them really

She was also a goddess who championed strategy and guile over brute force (Ares/Boris)

Hopefully Coveney is now going to show up perching a Corinthian helm atop his bonce

Professor Moriarty

The BBC's Nick Robinson:

How to sum up last few days for Boris Johnson:

5 days in Commons + 5 major defeats - 21 Tory MPs = 0 majority + 0 election + 0 plan for Brexit + 5 weeks of Parliament suspended.

Spanish Eyes

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Apparently, his speechwriter is Patrick Geoghegan, of Talking History fame.

Well Mr. Geoghegan hit the spot today anyway. Johnson was grinning like a Cheshire cat at the references. He was off the reservation before that though.

But I wonder if he realised the forensic meaning behind them immediately. I doubt it.

Whatever our views might be on LV/FG, he was just so polished, professional and statesmanlike today. I was very proud to have him representing us on the World stage.

The comparison between both of them was so evident.

Imreoir2

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

As an aside, Varadkar's reference to Ireland being Johnson's Athena was very clever. There are a number of parallels. Firstly, in Greek mythology, Athena was the goddess who knocked Hercules out when he went mad, killed his own children and was about to kill his father. So Ireland/Athena is restraining an insane Johnson/Hercules. Secondly, Athena was sometimes known as the goddess of democracy. So Ireland/Athena represents democracy versus a violent Johnson/Hercules. Thirdly, Athena was also Hercules' half-sister which symbolises the historic ties between Ireland and the UK.

Also, being a goddess, surely Athena was far more powerful than the demi-god Hercules?

lawred2

ath262 wrote: »

dream team upcoming the the EU Trade Commission - Tony Connelly understands that big Phil will be confirmed as EU's chief trade negotiator... He will be assisted by the secretary general of DG Trade by Sabine Weyand, one of the leading negotiators in Michel Barnier's Brexit Task Force

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1171148606964994049

this is so funny really

they are going to shaft Ireland any time now...

lawred2

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Well Mr. Geoghegan hit the spot today anyway. Johnson was grinning like a Cheshire cat at the references. He was off the reservation before that though.

But I wonder if he realised the forensic meaning behind them immediately. I doubt it.

Whatever our views might be on LV/FG, he was just so polished, professional and statesmanlike today. I was very proud to have him representing us on the World stage.

The comparison between both of them was so evident.

What was this about?

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1171052439111442432

:D