Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

RickBlaine

sdanseo wrote: »

Strikes me no one expected that suspension. Is something happening at the eleventh hour or does Bercow need the loo?

He looks shattered. It's been a long day for him.

Enzokk

I am done, I can complain about the behaviour all night but it will only make me miserable. I think the reason why there was a noisy room tonight was that many politicians spent a lot of time in the bars beforehand and thus it was worse than other times. Another one of those situations where parliamentarians get away with behaviour that would get most people fired on the spot.

hometruths

Whilst this is disastrous for Johnson for those of us following the minutiae, he may yet get some credit where it counts - with undecided voters.

It is hard to argue with the point that he makes saying if opposition parties want to delay Brexit, ask the people and get the mandate for that delay.

If you are trying to sum up what happened tonight, whatever you think of the characters involved, essentially it can be explained by saying one party sought a general election to break the deadlock in parliament, and the others said no, the deadlock suits us presently. If that is the narrative, I think it is a strong one in Johnson's favour.

What are his next steps? I still think he will try and get imminent agreement from Europe for TM's deal with a customs border down the Irish sea, special status for NI etc, and he will try and pass that through the house before October 31st.

If he fails to get that through the house I think he will resign as PM on the grounds that he will not ask for extension, thereby clearing the way for somebody else - most probably Corbyn - to ask for the extension.

As soon as it is requested, he could call for a Vote of No Confidence in that government, which I suspect he will win.

Nobody else can form a government, Johnson will have his election, will campaign on I will deliver Brexit and not humiliate Britain by asking for another extension etc etc.

In that scenario I think the Tories might do well. With the Lib Dems campaigning on revoke, and Labour on a second referendum it will be very interesting!!

Lucy8080

Shelga wrote: »

Haha me too! He does like his flowery language alright, basically means ‘prevarication’, right.

Yup,but also desertion of a cause,position,party or faith. What an interesting word!

BonnieSituation

The suspension until 110am did come out of nowhere. Any

delly

sdanseo wrote: »

Strikes me no one expected that suspension. Is something happening at the eleventh hour or does Bercow need the loo?

Did he not say they are back at 01:10.

sdanseo

delly wrote: »

Did he not say they are back at 01:10.

Yes brief suspension not adjourned.

I want it to be something dramatic, it's like watching a horrible, three year long horror movie.

On the flip side, he could quite literally have just needed to use the facilities.

Duane Dibbley

Boris is clearly not going to ask for an extension no matter if he is breaking the law or not.

Tell me how

schmittel wrote: »

Whilst this is disastrous for Johnson for those of us following the minutiae, he may yet get some credit where it counts - with undecided voters.

It is hard to argue with the point that he makes saying if opposition parties want to delay Brexit, ask the people and get the mandate for that delay.

It is entirely disengenuous to suggest that looking for a General election is Johnson trying to give the people a say on Brexit. The simplest way to do that would be to grant the wishes of those who asked for it in the debate of a peoples vote with Remain and the negotiated WA being the two options on the ballet.

If they had selected to have a GE tonight, the Tory strategy would not be to clarify Brexit for the population but to attack Corbyn and the Labour for being socialists and saying that it is paramount that they are stopped.

sdanseo

Tell me how wrote: »

It is entirely disengenuous to suggest that looking for a General election is Johnson trying to give the people a say on Brexit.

While that is true, his argument that the opposition are afraid of an election because they think they'd lose is utterly correct. I'm for a new referendum all day and night but oppositions refusing elections is nearly unheard of and completely unsustainable, in the short term it might get them past the 31st October deadline but will be no help for the next one. It's a dangerous game - they could easily be seen as the ones being undemocratic by the British public.

Tell me how

sdanseo wrote: »

While that is true, his argument that the opposition are afraid of an election because they think they'd lose is utterly correct. I'm for a new referendum all day and night but oppositions refusing elections is nearly unheard of and completely unsustainable, in the short term it might get them past the 31st October deadline but will be no help for the next one. It's a dangerous game - they could easily be seen as the ones being undemocratic by the British public.

I actually believe in this instance that their motivations for not allowing an election are because of the implications doing so now could mean in relation to Brexit.

J Mysterio

Apparently this happened??...

https://twitter.com/NewtonEmerson/status/1171179834371973122

hometruths

Tell me how wrote: »

It is entirely disengenuous to suggest that looking for a General election is Johnson trying to give the people a say on Brexit. The simplest way to do that would be to grant the wishes of those who asked for it in the debate of a peoples vote with Remain and the negotiated WA being the two options on the ballet.

If they had selected to have a GE tonight, the Tory strategy would not be to clarify Brexit for the population but to attack Corbyn and the Labour for being socialists and saying that it is paramount that they are stopped.

But we keep being told that it takes 6 months to organise a referendum so that option is not available.

And the fact is clear that they need a General Election. There is no functioning government at the minute. They will likely lose the Queen's Speech.

And the point I was making was more about the question Johnson was asking Corbyn - "if you want to ensure Brexit is delayed, agree to an election and if you win it, you can delay it. I will campaign on no delay under any circumstances, and if I win it, you must respect the will of the people. What is the problem with that?"

BonnieSituation

sdanseo wrote: »

Yes brief suspension not adjourned.

I want it to be something dramatic, it's like watching a horrible, three year long horror movie.

On the flip side, he could quite literally have just needed to use the facilities.

Parliament has been suspended for 10 minutes to prepare for the prorogation formalities.

hometruths

Tell me how wrote: »

I actually believe in this instance that their motivations for not allowing an election are because of the implications doing so now could mean in relation to Brexit.

That's as may be but irrespective of their motives, as sdanseo correctly says they are opening themselves up to the accusations of being undemocratic.

sdanseo

Tell me how wrote: »

I actually believe in this instance that their motivations for not allowing an election are because of the implications doing so now could mean in relation to Brexit.

If they won a majority they could repeal using emergency legislation in a matter of hours after parliament was recalled. The same goes for almost any combination of hung parliament excluding the DUP and of course SF.

They are not confident, and are doing the right thing in the circumstances in the national interest in my view - but the Brits are quite a patriotic bunch and will be easily led by BJ propaganda.

If the alternative vote referendum hadn't been shot out of the water 8 years ago you would probably have seen an attempt to change the system of voting in the last few days and weeks. But in context of being so recently defeated that proposition would be on just as thin water as another Brexit vote.

In any case, probably safe to say this wasn't a toilet break. Something has happened. How important it was (could be anything from a smashed lightbulb to Boris jumping off the roof) we'll see in a moment as the camera is just back on.

sdanseo

Black Rod coming?

J Mysterio

schmittel wrote: »

That's as may be but irrespective of their motives, as sdanseo correctly says they are opening themselves up to the accusations of being undemocratic.

They already have. He's closing parliament and proclaiming he wont follow law as enacted by parliament, and approved by the queen. Thats pretty undemocratic.

BonnieSituation

sdanseo wrote: »

Black Rod coming?

Yup.

You could watch her heading down from the Lords TV. It was odd.

sdanseo

MPs look like they are refusing to leave the chamber.

Bercow may be about to do the same.

Edit: balls, he's just having a rant before he capitulates.

BonnieSituation

Bit of a kerfuffle at the Speakers Chair

hometruths

J Mysterio wrote: »

They already have. He's closing parliament and proclaiming he wont follow law as enacted by parliament, and approved by the queen. Thats pretty undemocratic.

He has not actually said he will not follow the law. He merely said he will not under any circumstances ask for an extension.

Hence I said I think he could resign. I do not believe he will actively flout the law as prime minister, it is a complete nonsense suggestion.

"You're entitled to your view. I couldn't give a flying flamingo."

RickBlaine

An absolute circus!

sdanseo

Fireworks now.

Strazdas

Bercow looks absolutely furious

BonnieSituation

Opposition benches refusing to head to the HOL. Bercow was really peeved having to leave. This prorogation is going to bite the CONS so hard.

BonnieSituation

sdanseo wrote: »

MPs look like they are refusing to leave the chamber.

Bercow may be about to do the same.

Edit: balls, he's just having a rant before he capitulates.

Capitulate is a bit rich. He has little choice but to go. He registered his disgust. That's all he could do!

Strazdas

Deleted User wrote: »

"You're entitled to your view. I couldn't give a flying flamingo."

I was convinced he was going to go all Mrs Brown on us

sdanseo

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Capitulate is a bit rich. He has little choice but to go. He registered his disgust. That's all he could do!

True that. He's resigning shortly though, would have done his career no harm to huff and puff for a while. Might not get his knighthood then of course, although I am sure he probably doesn't care.

He licks his lips when he's pissed off or feeling particular sense of achievement. He's furious.