Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

Strazdas

prawnsambo wrote: »

I'm suspicious of the no deal rhetoric. Because it's coming with conveniently and regularly leaked no deal Armageddon briefing papers. I'm mindful of Sir Humphrey Appleby's aphorism that the ship of state is the only ship that leaks from the top. So you have brave Sir Boris boldly (but reluctantly) prepared to lead his country into no deal brexitland and simultaneously telling them of all the perils that lie before them there. He's setting himeself as all things to all brexiters.

We don't know what he is really up to. I'm not even convinced he is a Brexiteer or that he believes in Brexit. This sets him apart from all the ideological lunatics in his party who genuinely believe in it.

Spanish Eyes

serfboard wrote: »

The problem with Johnson's rhetoric is that no-deal is now being sold as almost the "best" solution, and anything less will then be seen as insufficient by those who don't really understand what no-deal is.

I'd love for someone to do a Vox pop asking the British public what they think no-deal means.

Well unfortunately no matter what anyone says, the Brexit mantra is not for turning now, but may it is receding a bit now.

But I agree with you, I doubt many Brexiters really understand the implications of it. But if they are told to think about it, the barriers come up, and you know the rest.

Seth Brundle

Unelected Fermanagh woman criticises Taoiseach for defending NI stability and prosperity plan...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/arlene-foster-criticises-taoiseach-for-standing-by-backstop-1.3992207

prawnsambo

Well at least Boris knows how much cheese the UK buys from Ireland. But like many of his (on the surface} compliments, there's an inherent "Nice place you have here, shame if it all burned down" threat about it. He does have a remarkable facility to say lots of words without actually making any statement or answering any question.

serfboard

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Unelected Fermanagh woman criticises Taoiseach for defending NI stability and prosperity plan...

In fairness to Arlene, she is elected - she's the MLA for Fermanagh and South Tyrone.

Admittedly that is to an assembly that is currently not functioning ...

J Mysterio

serfboard wrote: »

In fairness to Arlene, she is elected - she's the MLA for Fermanagh and South Tyrone.

Admittedly that is to an assembly that is currently not functioning ...

I think the point he is making is she is not an MP.

Capt'n Midnight

Enzokk wrote: »

Here is an interesting comment piece on Corbyn and his Brexit stance.

Jeremy Corbyn’s latest Brexit strategy: I don’t care about Brexit and neither should you



This article has hit the spot for me on Corbyn.

For me it was this short video clip of what I watched live back in 2016

Jeremy Corbyn says his passion for remaining in the EU rates at about "seven, or seven and a half" out of 10

But listen to how dismissive he is just going through the motions.
At best he wants to cherry pick , doesn't want the Free Market etc.
Wants reform, but not enough to have campaigned to remain.


The most unforgivable thing is that he didn't try to thwart the sort of people that were proposing Brexit. That sort of thing should be visceral.

Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing
- John Stuart Mill

Every other previous Labour Leader tried to get Labour voters out by painting a bleak picture.

if we leave the EU. Labour communities would face a double threat: the return of recession, led by a Tory government with an emboldened right wing. In such circumstances, Labour communities would suffer most: from spending cuts, neglect for the needy and a bonfire of workers’ rights.

Tell me how

J Mysterio wrote: »

I think the point he is making is she is not an MP.

Nor a TD (which would give her some authority to comment on Leo)

Capt'n Midnight

prawnsambo wrote: »

Well at least Boris knows how much cheese the UK buys from Ireland. But like many of his (on the surface} compliments, there's an inherent "Nice place you have here, shame if it all burned down" threat about it. He does have a remarkable facility to say lots of words without actually making any statement or answering any question.
twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1083854662774579200

"We buy 78,000 tonnes of your cheese every year!"

Back in January down near Waterford Port
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/glanbia-ireland-planning-140m-cheese-factory-in-kilkenny-1.3766540

Glanbia Ireland plans to partner with a Dutch dairy producer to build a €140 million continental cheese-manufacturing facility
...
Glanbia Ireland expects the new facility to have a production capacity of 450 million litres of milk per year,

It takes between 7 to 10 Litres to make 1Kg of cheese so that's 45,000-60,000 tonnes of cheese sorted for starters.

54and56

Pretty interesting and balanced article on BoJo's letter to the EU, given it is in The Telegraph!!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/20/boris-johnson-attempting-pin-blame-brussels-hard-border-brexit/

Joe_ Public

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

For me it was this short video clip of what I watched live back in 2016

Jeremy Corbyn says his passion for remaining in the EU rates at about "seven, or seven and a half" out of 10

But listen to how dismissive he is just going through the motions.
At best he wants to cherry pick , doesn't want the Free Market etc.
Wants reform, but not enough to have campaigned to remain.


The most unforgivable thing is that he didn't try to thwart the sort of people that were proposing Brexit. That sort of thing should be visceral.

Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing
- John Stuart Mill

Every other previous Labour Leader tried to get Labour voters out by painting a bleak picture.

I think he does want some sort of close alignment to the single market, however that might work, but doesn't want to be in the single market because they believe you cant renationalise former public utilities when you are in it. I actually dont know if he's correct in that though, the rail networks are public owned in lots of EU countries as it stands. As i've said here before i dont agree with some of the corbyn criticism, but it's very fair to say his views can be very confusing to say the very least for them.

J Mysterio

Courtesy of RTE news - Dutch plan big Brexit beach party

Thousands of people have signed up on Facebook to a Dutch beach party for Brexit, featuring food from across the European Union to mark Britain's departure.

Created by media worker Ron Toekook, the event calls for partygoers to meet at the seaside village of Wijk aan Zee near Amsterdam on 31 October, the date Britain is meant to leave.

More than 7,000 people have already said they will attend, while 52,000 others are interested.

"It will be a nice goodbye to a good friend who is going on an exciting adventure, but is perhaps not too bright," Mr Toekook told the Dutch news agency ANP.

The party will involve "sitting in a deck chair with Dutch chips, French wine and German beer, watching Britain as it closes itself off."

"If there is enough interest there may be a band that can play... 'We'll Meet Again'."

otnomart

J Mysterio wrote: »

Courtesy of RTE news - Dutch plan big Brexit beach party

The Dutch have nothing to celebrate, though.


"The loss to the Dutch economy could total 1.2% of GDP by 2030. This is equal to 10 billion euros."


Source: https://www.government.nl/topics/brexit/impact-of-brexit-on-the-dutch-economy

Tell me how

I'm ok with the Dutch party (it seems good natured more than bitter) but it will probably be matched by one in the UK just to be able to counter it.

Things like football matches will have added tension once the UK leave I reckon.
Very judgemental I know but I reckon a certain cohort of participants will take glee in being particularly patriotic.

Capt'n Midnight

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I think he does want some sort of close alignment to the single market, however that might work, but doesn't want to be in the single market because they believe you cant renationalise former public utilities when you are in it. I actually dont know if he's correct in that though, the rail networks are public owned in lots of EU countries as it stands. As i've said here before i dont agree with some of the corbyn criticism, but it's very fair to say his views can be very confusing to say the very least for them.

There's lots of state run railways in the UK.

Ironically it's other EU states running them #takebackcontrol

West Coast mainline connecting London, Birmingham, Manchester and Glasgow. This week, that train line passed to a consortium of the UK's FirstGroup and Italian state rail operator Trenitalia.
....
German state railway Deutsche Bahn operates four British railways including the London overground and the Grand Central line to Sunderland. Seven UK railways are operated or partly-operated by Dutch state railway Nederlandse Spoorwegen (NS), including Merseyrail, Scotrail and the West Midlands Railway. Seven railways are operated fully or partly by French state railway SNCF, including Transport for Wales and the Thameslink.

Joe_ Public

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

There's lots of state run railways in the UK.

Ironically it's other EU states running them #takebackcontrol

Mind boggling isn't it! State run railways with some of the highest ticket prices in the world. I have a tiny feeling thats not how its supposed to work...

BonnieSituation

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Mind boggling isn't it! State run railways with some of the highest ticket prices in the world. I have a tiny feeling thats not how its supposed to work...

It's oft been said that high British train fares subsidise public transport elsewhere in the EU.

prawnsambo

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's oft been said that high British train fares subsidise public transport elsewhere in the EU.

Nice to know that some things won't change after brexit.

kowloon

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's oft been said that high British train fares subsidise public transport elsewhere in the EU.

When I was regularly going back and forth between Ireland and the UK the train ticket cost more than the flights.

J Mysterio

Telegraph Politics Twitter really nailed it with this headline.

https://twitter.com/drjennings/status/1163851854545113088

prawnsambo

J Mysterio wrote: »

Telegraph Politics Twitter really nailed it with this headline.

https://twitter.com/drjennings/status/1163851854545113088

They've been having a good day on that front.

swampgas

otnomart wrote: »

The Dutch have nothing to celebrate, though.


"The loss to the Dutch economy could total 1.2% of GDP by 2030. This is equal to 10 billion euros."


Source: https://www.government.nl/topics/brexit/impact-of-brexit-on-the-dutch-economy

I imagine the remaining 98.8% of their GDP will tide them over. It's the British that will be printing ration books again.

prawnsambo

swampgas wrote: »

I imagine the remaining 98.8% of their GDP will tide them over. It's the British that will be printing ration books again.

It's 1.2% by 2030. So a negative hit to growth of 0.1% every year to 2030. A billion euro a year. Not sure does that qualify as a bump or a blip.

murphaph

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's 1.2% by 2030. So a negative hit to growth of 0.1% every year to 2030. A billion euro a year. Not sure does that qualify as a bump or a blip.

It's neither to the person in the street as it's projected growth loss and you don't miss what you never had. The UK in contrast will be in full on proper recession by year's end.

Kermit.de.frog

Elmar Brok to be on newsnight 10:30. Normally a good listen.

Unfortunately in the name of balance the sensible have to be evened out with the imbecilic and thus Andrew Bridgen will be on too.

Gwanoman

I'm a geography teacher and sometimes I teach some theory from economic geography and development by Gunar Myrdal.

I'm curious about the UK now.. It is in a system where the rules are all set up to facilitate them being successful. When they leave, the other 27 will immediately look for ways to replace what they can't get from the UK, presumably from the other 27.. And if say, Holland gets some products from Italy now that it originally got from the UK, it will be virtually impossible for the UK to get those deals back at a later date..

Of course, it works the other way around too.. but I think that the EU 27 will have a far easier time replacing by reshuffling from within..

I just can't see any of this ending well for them...

54and56

Bridgen on Newsnight? This should be good.

Sam Russell

kowloon wrote: »

When I was regularly going back and forth between Ireland and the UK the train ticket cost more than the flights.

You can get from Dublin Port to Euston for about €50 with sail&rail, either Stenna or Irish Ferries - about 7 or so hours or more depending on which boat. Also fare takes you to any station, but could be a bit more or less.

allthedoyles

I know a few Irish businesses that have now sourced suppliers in other EU countries rather than UK.
Products arriving from Rotterdam direct to Waterford.

VinLieger

54&56 wrote: »

Bridgen on Newsnight? This should be good.

Poor chap still probably trying to get his irish passport