Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

Options
1…263264266268269…317

Comments

  • Options
    #7952
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users Posts: 11,035 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    Rumours abounding also that the Government will now release some Yellowhammer documents?
    Could that conceivably be a dead cat? There will be no cats left.


  • Options
    #7953
    fash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭fash


    dublinjock wrote: »
    Thanks this is very interesting and appreciate the explanation.
    Can you tell me Sir Julian King was he an MEP voted in by his constituency or just picked as im not sure.Im going to look into this a bit more.


    Sajid Javid was elected as a MP then given the job as Chancellor of the Exchequer as an elected member of parliament.
    How relevant is the "election as member of parliament" - especially in the UK where because of the FPTP system and "safe seats" an inanimate carbon rod will be elected if the party puts that person forward? What qualifications exactly does a member of parliament have to be chancellor of the Exchequer and what entitles the person who selected him for that role to make that selection?
    Is it a problem that the Queen and the peers in the HOL were not voted for?
    Are you aware that the PM need not be an MP?


  • Options
    #7954
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,651 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    J Mysterio wrote: »
    Rumours abounding also that the Government will now release some Yellowhammer documents?
    Could that conceivably be a dead cat? There will be no cats left.


    Or they know the game is up. They have just been found to have lied to prorogue parliament so another instance of them ignoring democracy and the rule of law might not be a good look, especially with a election coming up.

    I would not be surprised if some civil servants start fighting back against Cummings. The worst that can happen is that they will be fired but will win a employment tribunal most likely, so why not do as you are basically told by parliament.


  • Options
    #7955
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,939 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Things are getting a little spicy now. The government didn't ask for a stay until the Supreme Court heard it, so moves are afoot to restore parliament.

    Would love to be sitting in a room with bercow right now to hear what his thoughts were


  • Options
    #7956
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Enzokk wrote: »
    Or they know the game is up. They have just been found to have lied to prorogue parliament so another instance of them ignoring democracy and the rule of law might not be a good look, especially with a election coming up.

    I would not be surprised if some civil servants start fighting back against Cummings. The worst that can happen is that they will be fired but will win a employment tribunal most likely, so why not do as you are basically told by parliament.
    Can Cummings actually fire civil servants? I would have thought he could remove them from whatever posts they hold in Number 10, but not actually fire them. They would just be redeployed or returned to whatever department they came from I would have thought.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7957
    dublinjock
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭dublinjock


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    The Queen?

    Im opposed to the royal family in its current structure.
    Totally unelected with some having far to much say.


  • Options
    #7958
    fash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭fash


    dublinjock wrote: »
    I understand what your saying about the President being like a head od state. But its an important role and they get to have say more than any other head of state would on matters.
    Im a firm believer any head of state should stand for an election and be voted in by the people.
    "the President of the European commission" is no more "the President of Europe" than "Vice President of McDonalds Europe" is the "vice President of Europe".
    Should we also elect who gets to be monarch of the UK?


  • Options
    #7959
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,340 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    There is no structure of a royal family that could be elected, and while some of them may have opinions, the only one with any clout, the queen, says remarkably little.


  • Options
    #7960
    dublinjock
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭dublinjock


    Calina wrote: »
    The UK's head of state is a hereditary monarch. Election is nowhere near schedule.


    In terms of Presidents of EU institutions, it is worth bearing in mind that président also translates as chairman as well as president and a lot of terminology came from French.

    If you look at the roles in each of the 3 main institutions, for Commission and Council, the role maps more to Chairperson than a head of state. For Parliament, I would say the mapping is more to speaker in terms of role.

    The UK royal family is a totally unelected head of state and im not a believer in the royal family in its current role.


  • Options
    #7961
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,651 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Can Cummings actually fire civil servants? I would have thought he could remove them from whatever posts they hold in Number 10, but not actually fire them. They would just be redeployed or returned to whatever department they came from I would have thought.


    Well in the legal sense special advisers are temporary civil servants and that is who he fired from Sajid Javid office, so he has that power (for the moment) and is using it.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7962
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    J Mysterio wrote: »
    Rumours abounding also that the Government will now release some Yellowhammer documents?

    Last time they tried to dodge a Humble Address, they were found to be in contempt of Parliament, the first Government ever to be so.


  • Options
    #7963
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Enzokk wrote: »
    Well in the legal sense special advisers are temporary civil servants and that is who he fired from Sajid Javid office, so he has that power (for the moment) and is using it.
    No, I understand spads (although some are actually career civil servants) it was just the OP i replied to didn't specify them as such. Hence the question.


  • Options
    #7964
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,651 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    dublinjock wrote: »
    Im opposed to the royal family in its current structure.
    Totally unelected with some having far to much say.


    Can you tell us which ones have far too much to say and how this is different from, say Gary Linekar or Ricky Gervais making comments on events of the world?

    Also, you seem very uninformed on the EU and how it works and also the complex question that Brexit entails, do you think it is right you had say in such a complex question that will potentially cost people their lives?


  • Options
    #7965
    dublinjock
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭dublinjock


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    OK so you voted to leave the EU.
    Did you vote to leave the single market?
    Did you vote toe leave the customs union?
    Did your vote take into account the other legal aspects affected by exiting the EU such as poorer trade deals, trade tarrifs and so on?
    Did your vote take into account the complexities of Northern Ireland and how existing legal agreements made in part by the UK mean that Brexit cannot happen without negatively affecting the political, economic and social status of Northern Ireland? This in turn would have ramifications on the Uk's reputation across the world (for breaking an agreement registered with the UN).


    So what should the HoC do?
    Should they accept the deal that May agreed with the EU?
    Should they accept the default exit i.e. a crash out which will be a massive economic and social disaster for the UK?
    What should they do because nobody in there seems to agree with the person sitting beside them!



    All them questions was not part of the referendum and i would not be qualified to answer them.
    As for Nortnern Ireland i hope that the UK and Irish govemments stick to there word about being no border. If both stick to this then there be no border.
    As for ramifications i dont know, leaving is going to be a big change and there be winners and losers.


  • Options
    #7966
    theguzman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    Cork Boy 53 wrote: »
    If the Supreme Court upholds the Scottish Court`s decision then I would say that, shortly afterwards, Johnson can expect a summons from the Palace for a "little chat" with the Queen.

    One admires your tenacity Boris, Keep going and get us out of Europe, do mind one's corgi on the way out. The Royal Family absolutely admonish the EU and they want a Tory in power and the UK out of the EU. They like to tell others what to do not take orders from Brussels or Berlin.


  • Options
    #7967
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,651 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    No, I understand spads (although some are actually career civil servants) it was just the OP i replied to didn't specify them as such. Hence the question.


    I got it, I am actually not sure if he has threatened civil servants or just the spads. I get the feeling it is only the spads as he knows he has no real power to fire civil servants working on the day to day goings on of the UK. I think you were replying to me and as usual I typed way too quickly before engaging my brain to check if he had actually done what I thought he did.

    The spads being temporary civil servants is more a technicality as it seems they are not there for the long haul but use it as a stepping stone to bigger things later in life. Look at Nick Timothy and how he has flourished.


  • Options
    #7968
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,925 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    dublinjock wrote: »
    Im opposed to the royal family in its current structure.
    Totally unelected with some having far to much say.

    I think it's fair to say that your understanding of the constitutional vagaries of the UK isn't all that great.


  • Options
    #7969
    dublinjock
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭dublinjock


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    I do find the Brexiter attitude on the EU officials bizarre to say the least. Only yesterday, ex PM May appointed a whole load of failures to the upper house in the UK Houses of Parliament so dublinjock, how did you vote for them? For me as a UK resident, how do I vote for them?

    Im finding it all bizarre to be honest. The UK house of commons has proved to be undemocratic. Im still the same on the EU being undemocratic.

    You can vote through the post or by proxy, get someone to do this for you. If you google it your find its quite easy to do.

    But i dont think voting will change anything.


  • Options
    #7970
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,925 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Things are getting a little spicy now. The government didn't ask for a stay until the Supreme Court heard it, so moves are afoot to restore parliament.

    So with the government the only ones able to recall parliament, it stands to reason that we don't need to wait on BJ to summon parliament if it is still in session as per the advice.

    This prorogation really had gotten out of hand. Delighted.


  • Options
    #7971
    dublinjock
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭dublinjock


    fash wrote: »
    How relevant is the "election as member of parliament" - especially in the UK where because of the FPTP system and "safe seats" an inanimate carbon rod will be elected if the party puts that person forward? What qualifications exactly does a member of parliament have to be chancellor of the Exchequer and what entitles the person who selected him for that role to make that selection?
    Is it a problem that the Queen and the peers in the HOL were not voted for?
    Are you aware that the PM need not be an MP?

    Yes im aware the PM does not have to be an MP. This is wrong totally wrong.
    In Scotalnd our first minister is not an MP Nicola Sturgeon.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7972
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Last time they tried to dodge a Humble Address, they were found to be in contempt of Parliament, the first Government ever to be so.
    Well it seems they're going to release it alright. Just giving it a haircut and mani-pedi before they do it seems.


  • Options
    #7973
    A Shropshire Lad
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭A Shropshire Lad


    What difference does it make whether this parliament is open or closed for a month.
    They cant agree on anything in there anyway.


  • Options
    #7974
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,939 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    dublinjock wrote: »
    Yes im aware the PM does not have to be an MP. This is wrong totally wrong.
    In Scotalnd our first minister is not an MP Nicola Sturgeon.

    Because shes the first minister of the Scottish parliament at Holyrood to which she was elected to as a MSP.........

    You are seriously uninformed about the institutions of the United Kingdom and even though you keep saying you think the EU is undemocratic you havent yet managed to give a good example of how


  • Options
    #7975
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    dublinjock wrote: »
    Im finding it all bizarre to be honest. The UK house of commons has proved to be undemocratic. Im still the same on the EU being undemocratic.

    You can vote through the post or by proxy, get someone to do this for you. If you google it your find its quite easy to do.

    But i dont think voting will change anything.
    I think the HoC is quite democratic. The current PM not so much. And the EU institutions are a lot more democratic than the UK electoral system. But it's all been explained to you, so you can re-read those posts at your leisure until you figure it out. Glad to have been of assistance in that regard.


  • Options
    #7976
    dublinjock
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭dublinjock


    Enzokk wrote: »
    Can you tell us which ones have far too much to say and how this is different from, say Gary Linekar or Ricky Gervais making comments on events of the world?

    Also, you seem very uninformed on the EU and how it works and also the complex question that Brexit entails, do you think it is right you had say in such a complex question that will potentially cost people their lives?

    I don't have the same view as you, just because i don't agree with you does not mean im uninformed.


  • Options
    #7977
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    A Shropshire Lad wrote: »
    What difference does it make whether this parliament is open or closed for a month.
    They cant agree on anything in there anyway.
    Well apart from the obvious "Why does BJ want it closed?", there is some important legislation that hasn't completed its enactment such as the Domestic Violence bill. And of course that other brexit business that's supposed to be finishing up soonish.


  • Options
    #7978
    dublinjock
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭dublinjock


    fash wrote: »
    "the President of the European commission" is no more "the President of Europe" than "Vice President of McDonalds Europe" is the "vice President of Europe".
    Should we also elect who gets to be monarch of the UK?

    We in the UK should not have an unelected head of state.


  • Options
    #7979
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    J Mysterio wrote: »
    Rumours abounding also that the Government will now release some Yellowhammer documents?
    Could that conceivably be a dead cat? There will be no cats left.

    Hyacinth Leadsom said the contents are too scary to publish

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/106465/andrea-leadsom-suggests-no-deal-documents-will-not-be
    A leak involving the documents last month suggested that Britain will face shortages of fuel, food and medicine if it leaves the EU without a deal on 31 October.

    But Ms Leadsom told BBC Breakfast: “I actually do not think that it serves people well to see what is absolutely the worst thing that could happen.”

    “The worst thing that could happen to me is I could walk out of here and get run over. It is not a prediction, but it is something that could happen.

    “And simply putting out there all of the possible permutations of what could happen actually just serves to concern people.


  • Options
    #7980
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,651 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    A Shropshire Lad wrote: »
    What difference does it make whether this parliament is open or closed for a month.
    They cant agree on anything in there anyway.


    They are closing all parliamentary business, so the committee's are closed as well. Today Paypal was supposed to give evidence and obviously hasn't. The PM was also supposed to appear and be questioned and he has dodged that. Parliament is more than just PM's questions and votes.

    dublinjock wrote: »
    I don't have the same view as you, just because i don't agree with you does not mean im uninformed.


    You don't seem to know how the EU works and who is elected or voted in and what positions they serve. Then you don't seem to know that Nicola Sturgeon isn't head of the UK Parliament but leader of the Scottish Government. But you have the confidence to call these institutions undemocratic.

    I feel very safe in my opinion that you have uninformed views and is therefor uninformed on the topics you want to discuss on here.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7981
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,894 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    dublinjock wrote: »
    I don't have the same view as you, just because i don't agree with you does not mean im uninformed.

    It does though, you've spent the last ten pages trying to inform yourself


    At least admit that. Because all the questions are fine, but it means you aren't informed and are trying to be


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement