Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

trellheim

Andrew Neil and a lot of others despise Cadwallader even though she is one of the most highly lauded journos out there, a pulitzer finalist for finding out about Cambridge Analytica

J Mysterio

Latest Andrew Neil shownis basically going to be three people who agree with each other.

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1171822938296860672

"Journalism".

Also, Kwasi Kwarteng today said that 'people are beginning to question the impartiality of judges' and 'why are they getting involved in politics'.

With many of these politicians, you have to decide if they are just stupid or if they are nefarious. Either way, they are dangerous.

J Mysterio

trellheim wrote: »

Andrew Neil and a lot of others despise Cadwallader even though she is one of the most highly lauded journos out there, a pulitzer finalist for finding out about Cambridge Analytica

What a coincidence. I hadn't seen your post.

prawnsambo

J Mysterio wrote: »

Latest Andrew Neil shownis basically going to be three people who agree with each other.

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1171822938296860672

"Journalism".

Also, Kwasi Kwarteng today said that 'people are beginning to question the impartiality of judges' and 'why are they getting involved in politics'.

With many of these politicians, you have to decide if they are just stupid or if they are nefarious. Either way, they are dangerous.

"People are saying...". Straight from the Trump playbook.

Joe_ Public

"Cadswallop". Wasnt that what Neil tweeted one time when having a go at her on twitter. Think he had to subsequently delete it.

To be entirely fair, though, i'd have to point out that when it comes to interviewing, i've always found Andrew Neil to be an equal opportunities savager. Brexiteers, remainers, in betweeners - he'll take them all down with equal gusto if or when the opportunity arises. That time he got Johnson on the GATT24 thing was epic, all the interviews Johnson was doing around that time and it wasn't until Neil got hold of him that he was actually made to squirm. Not saying he's a pleasant chap or anything, and no secret he's a brexiteer, but he's damn good at the job he does, that i wouldn't try to deny.

Calina

J Mysterio wrote: »

Sunday Times journalist believes she has the scoop on the redacted element of Yellowhammer

https://twitter.com/RosamundUrwin/status/1171873763295682560

ST originally published story so I would not be surprised by this.

prawnsambo

More on that section 15 here.

Mefistofelino

J Mysterio wrote: »

Sunday Times journalist believes she has the scoop on the redacted element of Yellowhammer

https://twitter.com/RosamundUrwin/status/1171873763295682560

This has significant consequences for Ireland - the majority of our petroleum products come from UK refineries

Mr.Nice Guy

Farage with a predictable response.

https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1171878181264953344

It really is like a cult at this point. Anything negative will be dismissed as Project Fear, scaremongering, a 'Remoaner' plot etc.

L1011

Mefistofelino wrote: »

This has significant consequences for Ireland - the majority of our petroleum products come from UK refineries

I thought Whitegate was slightly above 50% of road fuels? Still "slightly" is not a reassuring position!

woohoo!!!

Mefistofelino wrote: »

J Mysterio wrote: »

Sunday Times journalist believes she has the scoop on the redacted element of Yellowhammer

https://twitter.com/RosamundUrwin/status/1171873763295682560

This has significant consequences for Ireland - the majority of our petroleum products come from UK refineries

Including some of our reserves or at least that was the case.

J Mysterio

Joe_ Public wrote: »

"Cadswallop". Wasnt that what Neil tweeted one time when having a go at her on twitter. Think he had to subsequently delete it.

To be entirely fair, though, i'd have to point out that when it comes to interviewing, i've always found Andrew Neil to be an equal opportunities savager. Brexiteers, remainers, in betweeners - he'll take them all down with equal gusto if or when the opportunity arises. That time he got Johnson on the GATT24 thing was epic, all the interviews Johnson was doing around that time and it wasn't until Neil got hold of him that he was actually made to squirm. Not saying he's a pleasant chap or anything, and no secret he's a brexiteer, but he's damn good at the job he does, that i wouldn't try to deny.

There's no doubt he can be tough on anyone, but tonight's show for example, where is the balance in the guests? All three of them are Brexiteers, including the host. That means that even if he is tough on them, who is espousing or championing the anti-Brexit viewpoint?

You would have to question the editorial policy there and im sure Neil has plenty of input as a very senior, respected figure. Even if he asks the other two tough questions, no one is speaking against Brexit.

What has Farage to offer? He is constantly platformed and is a clear cheat and liar. He's married to a German and his children have German passports for gods sake. Thats probably 'not kosher' to mention...

BBC is just worthless these days. Brexit Broadcasting Corporation? I remember I used to be very critical of Sky, but they have played a blinder throughout Brexit.

Enzokk

If I link some tweets already posted I apologize,

https://twitter.com/RosamundUrwin/status/1171864228879372289?s=20

So basically they have changed the heading on the documents and will now claim that these are the worst case scenario where before it was the base case. Then they will go onto the airwaves and tell people not to worry about the document because they are only the worst case. This is ridiculous and it is dangerous.

As for how the BBC is covering the Yellowhammer release, well obviously it is objective and behind the facts for the people to understand.

https://twitter.com/ChrisMasonBBC/status/1171866717657735168?s=20

https://twitter.com/ChrisMasonBBC/status/1171867143966793728?s=20

"Operation Yellowhammer" document marked "official sensitive" is "reasonable worst case scenario." It talks of lorries having to wait between one and a half and two and half days to cross Channel

The take from this BBC journalist that this is now the worst case scenario instead of the base is just repeating the party line. This is much the same as Laura Kuenssberg earlier where she only tweeted official release quotes and never seemed to question why the PM lied to the Queen.

Take the Channel 4 news piece on the events of today, they point out that the court found he lied to the Queen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usDAv2Y14T0

Itssoeasy

woohoo!!! wrote: »

Fascinating to read the heavily redacted info on yellow hammer. Of course they've resisted releasing communications, it would identify a lot of important folk of conspiring to lie to the public, parliament and the queen to get parliament suspended. Her maj must be considering invoking full monarchy powers to run the country, temporarily, considering the utter hames the current shower are making of it. Along with the Scottish court ruling and the poll on NI re Irish reunification, it's fair to say we're watching the UKs political authority crumbling. And of course the various factions are too focused on their cunning wheezes and counter-wheezes, to realise the danger.

Heavily reacted ? There's one paragraph redacted.

Strazdas

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Farage with a predictable response.

https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1171878181264953344

It really is like a cult at this point. Anything negative will be dismissed as Project Fear, scaremongering, a 'Remoaner' plot etc.

Brexiteers simply cannot handle bad news about Brexit. Anyone who delivers bad news is dismissed as a liar and a fraud, no matter how high up or eminent.

As you say, it's some sort of brainwashed cult. It's extraordinary to see in a modern democracy.

Calina

Itssoeasy wrote: »

woohoo!!! wrote: »

Fascinating to read the heavily redacted info on yellow hammer. Of course they've resisted releasing communications, it would identify a lot of important folk of conspiring to lie to the public, parliament and the queen to get parliament suspended. Her maj must be considering invoking full monarchy powers to run the country, temporarily, considering the utter hames the current shower are making of it. Along with the Scottish court ruling and the poll on NI re Irish reunification, it's fair to say we're watching the UKs political authority crumbling. And of course the various factions are too focused on their cunning wheezes and counter-wheezes, to realise the danger.

Heavily reacted ? There's one paragraph redacted.

Seriously doubt that is the ectent of documentation on Operation Yellowhammer. There is no actual operation in that doc.

Enzokk

J Mysterio wrote: »

There's no doubt he can be tough on anyone, but tonight's show for example, where is the balance in the guests? All three of them are Brexiteers, including the host. That means that even if he is tough on them, who is espousing or championing the anti-Brexit viewpoint?

You would have to question the editorial policy there and im sure Neil has plenty of input as a very senior, respected figure. Even if he asks the other two tough questions, no one is speaking against Brexit.

What has Farage to offer? He is constantly platformed and is a clear cheat and liar. He's married to a German and his children have German passports for gods sake. Thats probably 'not kosher' to mention...

BBC is just worthless these days. Brexit Broadcasting Corporation? I remember I used to be very critical of Sky, but they have played a blinder throughout Brexit.

Neil may the one of the best, if not the best interviewer out there but this doesn't mean that his personal views and conduct has been below standard for a long time. He keeps on posting personally on twitter where he links articles that are skeptical of climate change and calls Cadwalladr a "mad cat lady" constantly and a conspiracy theorist. This while she keeps being vindicated by stories she uncovers.

James O'Brien mentioned today that he was told/asked by the BBC not to bring up that Johnson has lied to almost everybody while he was still doing work for them. They were uncomfortable with him pointing out that he lied to his wives about his girlfriends even though it was factually true. But they allow Neil to tweet away without any problems? The BBC really seems to have lost its way and its dependence on the government to ensure it has enough funding lets itself open to be manipulated.

VinLieger

Something being pointed out is they seem to have relabeled this from being "base scenario" ie the most likely to be the "worst case scenario" in an attempt to pretend this isnt all deffinitely going to happen.

However we all know already that the worst case scenario is a seperate document called black swan.

J Mysterio

Enzokk wrote: »

much the same as Laura Kuenssberg earlier where she only tweeted official release quotes and never seemed to question why the PM lied to the Queen.

Honestly, I hold Kuenssberg in contempt. She is reactionary rather than pro-active and regurgitates whatever she is fed. She is also a classic example of a journalist who gets to close to the subject and is then soft for fear of upsetting the people she essentially works with every day - need to keep a good working relationship! Really she just comes across as though she is enjoying herself, it's all a lark.

bilston

Strazdas wrote: »

Brexiteers simply cannot handle bad news about Brexit. Anyone who delivers bad news is dismissed as a liar and a fraud, no matter how high up or eminent.

As you say, it's some sort of brainwashed cult. It's extraordinary to see in a modern democracy.

Brexiteers (well some) remind me a bit of the guy at the end of Dr Strangelove riding the nuclear bomb and seemingly loving every minute of it.

bilston

VinLieger wrote: »

Something being pointed out is they seem to have relabeled this from being "base scenario" ie the most likely to be the "worst case scenario" in an attempt to pretend this isnt all deffinitely going to happen.

However we all know already that the worst case scenario is a seperate document called black swan.

As far as I'm concerned worst case scenario is potential martial law, maybe even some kind of civil war. Unlikely, but worryingly not entirely unthinkable.

LeinsterDub

Is 6 pages seriously the sum total of the operation yellowhammer document? Jesus they are so unprepared

Enzokk

Here is Kwasi Kwarteng trying to be smart and telling the people judges are impartial, but he is not saying it. It was mentioned earlier that this is classic Trump,

https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1171887952525443077?s=20

I may not have agreed with Owen Jones on Brexit (he has come around lately though), but he has a point when he tweeted this (not linking the tweet as it has the video again which I don't want to link a second time),

"A lot of people think Kwasi Kwarteng is a liar, a joke, a clown, an absolute embarrassment to humanity. I don't think that, by the way, not at all, but there are lots of people who think he's a liar, a joke, a clown, an embarrassment to humanity."

We can all play this game!

J Mysterio wrote: »

Honestly, I hold Kuenssberg in contempt. She is reactionary rather than pro-active and regurgitates whatever she is fed. She is also a classic example of a journalist who gets to close to the subject and is then soft for fear of upsetting the people she essentially works with every day - need to keep a good working relationship! Really she just comes across as though she is enjoying herself, it's all a lark.

You can bet she is not one of those who will be hit by the rises of food and fuel in a no-deal Brexit.


https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1171763943636951040?s=20

This tweet sums up life in the UK right now. Jeremy Corbyn was lambasted for apparently not bowing low enough to the Queen, but Boris Johnson can lie to her and get away with it? I am looking forward to the headlines of the newspapers tomorrow to see how they are covering this story.

woohoo!!!

Itssoeasy wrote: »

woohoo!!! wrote: »

Fascinating to read the heavily redacted info on yellow hammer. Of course they've resisted releasing communications, it would identify a lot of important folk of conspiring to lie to the public, parliament and the queen to get parliament suspended. Her maj must be considering invoking full monarchy powers to run the country, temporarily, considering the utter hames the current shower are making of it. Along with the Scottish court ruling and the poll on NI re Irish reunification, it's fair to say we're watching the UKs political authority crumbling. And of course the various factions are too focused on their cunning wheezes and counter-wheezes, to realise the danger.

Heavily reacted ? There's one paragraph redacted.

Quite correct, I should have said the full document not being made available, not the executive summary which a small redacted portion. As has been pointed out, it's not a worst case scenario but rather a likely one.

Mefistofelino

L1011 wrote: »

I thought Whitegate was slightly above 50% of road fuels? Still "slightly" is not a reassuring position!

I think 60-70% of our refined products come from the UK

embraer170

I spent some time working in a department of a public administration that was responsible for writing documents such as crisis plans. I am shocked at the Yellohammer doc is: poorly written, low on detail, and proposes nothing.

Itssoeasy

woohoo!!! wrote: »

Quite correct, I should have said the full document not being made available, not the executive summary which a small redacted portion. As has been pointed out, it's not a worst case scenario but rather a likely one.

Well okay that’s fair enough. We could say instead of redacted, that the document is not the full document so it was withheld not redacted.

BonnieSituation

embraer170 wrote: »

I spent some time working in a department of a public administration that was responsible for writing documents such as crisis plans. I am shocked at the Yellohammer doc is: poorly written, low on detail, and proposes nothing.

Given it is a UK Govt document I would not be shocked.

ElectronVolt

dublinjock wrote: »

I understand what your saying about the President being like a head od state. But its an important role and they get to have say more than any other head of state would on matters.
Im a firm believer any head of state should stand for an election and be voted in by the people.

I actually said that the president in those contexts is *NOT* the head of state. Perhaps you were confused? I was actually making the completely opposite point.

The US president is elected by an electoral college using a formula that distorts representation very heavily in favour of low-population and rural areas and away from the places that people actually live.

The Taoiseach is elected by the Dáil and in the UK the PM is appointed by the Queen on the notional idea that they are believed to be likely to be able to command a majority in parliament, they don't even have to stand for election there - Boris Johnson is case and point.

The EU doesn't have a head of state nor is it a state. My whole point was the term "President" in the EU's context does not mean head of state and was never intended to.

BorneTobyWilde

Everyone knew Boris was lying to the Queen. Even the Queen knew it, but she has to fill her role and allow his request for a Queens speech.
5 weeks off is a joke, 5 days, okay that would be normal.