Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

Harry Palmr

Scottish Court of Session looking at a petition re the Ben Bill or something I only caught the story with one ear

ArmaniJeanss

Joylon Maughan news is another court case.

https://twitter.com/bbclornag/status/1172162975978971137

trellheim

ok its to compel the PM to sign the letter by the look of it.



Edit : I tried looking through that website and seem to be able to shop for 39.99 ? with 5.95 delivery....

VinLieger

Textra_vision wrote: »

Ok will give it a try:

https: //i.ibb.co/94PgqW4/image1. jpg

Yeah that's a scam

prawnsambo

Textra_vision wrote: »

Ok will give it a try:

https: //i.ibb.co/94PgqW4/image1. jpg

Found the item on their Irish website priced at €39.99

This could be a result of that old chestnut; distribution channels. So if the product comes into the UK from Europe and then is distributed in Ireland by the UK importer, they are passing on the currency differential that they are suffering because of the weakness of sterling.

Edit: Not very clear who they are, but tracked down a phone number for them and it's in Denmark. So that would bear out what I'm saying above. Or at least doesn't contradict it.

ArmaniJeanss

I'm reading that what makes this case different is that it doesn't just compel Johnson to write the extension letter like Parliament did - if he doesn't then the court is entitled to send it on his behalf.

VinLieger

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I'm reading that what makes this case different is that it doesn't just compel Johnson to write the extension letter like Parliament did - if he doesn't then the court is entitled to send it on his behalf.

Jesus this is going to go down well

lawred2

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I'm reading that what makes this case different is that it doesn't just compel Johnson to write the extension letter like Parliament did - if he doesn't then the court is entitled to send it on his behalf.

a judicial coup if you will

#stopthecoup

Professor Moriarty

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I'm reading that what makes this case different is that it doesn't just compel Johnson to write the extension letter like Parliament did - if he doesn't then the court is entitled to send it on his behalf.

That would be fun. The EU might have two letters in the inbox. One, postmarked Edinburgh, saying "Any chance of an auld extension Boss?". The other, postmarked London, saying "Go ahead, throw us out, we don't care."

prawnsambo

trellheim wrote: »

correct link. https://i.ibb.co/94PgqW4/image1.jpg

heres the sku https://www.only.com/es/en/on/womens-fashion/dresses/shirt-dresses/printed-tie-belt-dress-5714496553982.html

that looks illegal to me.

It's actually not illegal. An item can be priced in any way a seller wishes. Having different prices in different territories is quite normal.

As I say above, it could easily be brexit related by reason of the distribution channel.

L1011

trellheim wrote: »

cough I said that upthread

jolyon maughams a law type so what court judgments are due at 4 ? is it the welsh or ni prorog cases ? He's been coy all day on twitter but he knew about it at 0730 am

Wales = England for legal purposes. It doesn't have its own legal system. There are some Welsh only laws but no courts etc.

trellheim

everyone frantically googles Nobile Officium ....

if granted this removes Johnsons ability to hold the oppositions feet to the fire on any oul muck he comes up with

prawnsambo

VinLieger wrote: »

Jesus this is going to go down well

Well it's just acting on the Benn amendment and if Boris refuses to obey that law, takes it out of his hands and effectively puts a pp beside his name on the letter and sends it on his behalf.

'Nobile officium'. You learn something new every day.

trellheim

Barnier's just updated europarl. Here' s the speech https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/speech-barnier-ep-cop-120919.pdf

hang on while I run it through a translator

Mister President,
Ladies and Gentlemen Group Presidents,
I thank you for this invitation to meet this new Conference of Presidents.
Under your authority, Mr President, and in close cooperation with your Brexit Steering
Group, I will come back to you as regularly as necessary on developments
Brexit.
I want to thank you for your commitment and support throughout this process, since
it began more than three years ago, with many debates and resolutions.
The message of calm, unity and vigilance by the European Parliament is more than ever
necessary on this important topic.
Your new resolution next week will give you the opportunity to bring this
message and defend the fundamental principles and interests of the Union.
[STATE OF PLAY]
 In the United Kingdom, the Brexit situation remains serious and uncertain.
 Prime Minister Johnson's government, since taking office at the end of July, has
taken as a starting point that the United Kingdom would emerge from the Union, in all
circumstances, by 31 October 2019 at the latest.
o On the one hand wishing to renegotiate the withdrawal agreement by demanding the
withdrawal of the backstop provided for in the Protocol on Ireland and Northern Ireland,
as well as serious amendments to the political declaration.
2
o And on the other hand, saying that he is ready for an exit without agreement if his requests were not
not accepted, as if this prospect could lead us to give up
to our principles.
 For its part, the majority of the House of Commons has rejected such a scenario, and a
Extension Act became law on Monday, the object of which is:
o If the Government does not return by 19 October at the latest, just after the Council
with an agreement, then he will be obliged to request an extension of the
negotiation period until 31 January 2020.
 What is happening in the meantime, that is between today and October 31st?
 I can not tell you objectively whether contacts with the government of Mr.
Johnson will be able to reach an agreement by mid-October.
o As recalled by President Juncker during his interview
telephone with Mr. Johnson on August 27, we are ready to work from
constructively with the UK Government, and to consider all
concrete and legally operational proposals that are compatible with
the withdrawal agreement.
 The European Council will meet on 17 and 18 October, which will be the moment when
the European Union will have to take note of the situation.
o Or we have previously found an agreement, even if at the precise moment I
speak, we have no reason to be optimistic,
o Or we have not reached agreement, and the European Council will have to take note
and decide on a possible additional extension, if requested.
 In this context of uncertainty, allow me a few more words on two points:
o Where are our contacts with the British, and what are their main
requests?
o What should be our negotiating strategy, and in particular what role
to play the European Parliament?
[DISCUSSIONS WITH BRITISH NEGOTIATORS]
3
 First, a word about our last meetings with British negotiators, in
especially the Johnson sherpa, David Frost, with whom we are in contact
permanent since the end of July.
 We have observed a willingness on their part to intensify contacts with us
since the G7 in Biarritz at the end of August.
 On the backstop, we have always said that we are ready to analyze any proposal
which would be compatible with the withdrawal agreement and legally operational, as
was engaged the British government in the letter of March 2018 to President Tusk.
o But the ball is clearly in the British camp.
The Protocol on Ireland and Northern Ireland
 On this sensitive issue, solidarity between all member states remains intact.
 We are and will remain firm on the three objectives that have guided our work as early as
beginning, namely:
at. i. The absence of a physical boundary on the island of Ireland; But also :
b. ii. Preserving the integrity of the internal market;
c. iii. The protection of North-South cooperation and the "all-island economy", which are
essential elements of peace and stability in Ireland, as protected by
the Good Friday Agreement.
The future relationship
 Beyond the backstop, the British are also asking to change certain points of the
political declaration.
o On our future economic partnership, they want us to indicate without
ambiguity that the final destination must be a free trade agreement and in no way
case a customs union.
 And we are obviously ready to work in this direction.
o But we will have
It is clear that the level of ambition of a future free trade agreement will be defined in
United Kingdom guarantees in terms of State aid, taxation or
social and environmental standards, given its economic size and proximity.
[NEXT STEPS]
 We will see in the coming weeks if the British are able to
make concrete proposals in writing that are legally operational.
o We will keep our state of mind open and vigilant.
 At the same time, you will have understood, despite the vote of the law of extension, the risk of
deal has not been ruled out.
 A no deal will never be the choice of the Union. But we do not have the ability to avoid
only this scenario.
 Our responsibility is to prepare ourselves for it.
o The sixth Communication adopted last week by the Commission in
testifies.
 One thing is clear: even in a no deal scenario, the fundamental issues and
priorities raised by Brexit, and which are settled in the withdrawal agreement - the rights
citizens, the Irish question and the Financial Regulation - will have to be resolved in all
state of affairs.
Ladies and gentlemen,
 By continuing our efforts to defend our global agreement and the coordinated action of
the Union that we will maintain the unity of the 27.
 This unit, we built it throughout this negotiation, with the support
President Juncker and the services of the Commission, President Tusk and
Secretary General of the Council and your Parliament.
 We built it with transparency, dialogue and respect between us and
between all the Institutions.
 This spirit of unity is also fundamental at the moment when the new Parliament and the
new Commission, under the dynamic impetus of its new President Ursula Von der
Leyen, develop a positive agenda for the future of our Union, well beyond Brexit.

... ends... sorry for the poor pasting

Professor Moriarty

@Trellheim. It really is a game of chicken now. The EU trying to maintain cohesion and their red lines. The Tories cajoling, threatening and sulking. It literally is about who blinks first or the crash happens.

MadYaker

Seems like the EU position hasn’t changed and he simply restating it. They’re in wait and see mode at the moment since there’s multiple things happening in the UK with regard to the benn bill and various court cases etc.

At the moment I’m hopeful bojo will shaft the DUP as doing so would make it much easier to come to an agreement that satisfies the points outlined above in regard to Ireland.

Infini

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

@Trellheim. It really is a game of chicken now. The EU trying to maintain cohesion and their red lines. The Tories cajoling, threatening and sulking. It literally is about who blinks first or the crash happens.

Beetle vs Frieght train. Aint exactly a game of chicken but more like "10 seconds before disaster" for the Brits to be fair.

NIMAN

Will Boris screw the DUP over at the last minute and sign up to a NI-only backstop?

Seth Brundle

NIMAN wrote: »

Will Boris screw the DUP over at the last minute and sign up to a NI-only backstop?

Who knows?
Does the process of making a better Britain involve severing off a big chunk of it?

trellheim

NI is not in Britain lol

Seth Brundle

trellheim wrote: »

NI is not in Britain lol

Tell that to the British/Brexiteers!

Zubeneschamali

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

@Trellheim. It really is a game of chicken now. The EU trying to maintain cohesion and their red lines. The Tories cajoling, threatening and sulking. It literally is about who blinks first or the crash happens.

UK law now says that if Johnson is still playing chicken with the EU on the 19th of October, he has to ask the EU to reschedule the game to January 31st next year.

There can be no crash this year.

Zubeneschamali

NIMAN wrote: »

Will Boris screw the DUP over at the last minute and sign up to a NI-only backstop?

Hardly matters - Parliament will not ratify it.

GM228

Not sure if anyone has posted this yet but the Scottish judgement is available to read here.

It's also worth pointing out for anyone interested the UK Supreme Court is currently in recess until October, but , due to the nature of the issue will be sitting on Tuesday for the appeal with 9 judges presiding.

trellheim

thats the "prorogue was invalid" one, right?

GM228

trellheim wrote: »

thats the "prorogue was invalid" one, right?

Yes.

A Dub in Glasgo

Some detail about the link GM228 posted

https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1172171677867769856

prawnsambo

This one is pretty sharp:

And on the other hand, saying that he is ready for an exit without agreement if his requests were not accepted, as if this prospect could lead us to give up

GM228

Tuesday will be an interesting day in the Supreme Court, if the decision is upheld there may be cause for using impeachment for the first time since 1806 (assuming Parliament can agree to apply it in the modern era - in reality that won't happen though).

prawnsambo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Some detail about the link GM228 posted

https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1172171677867769856

For those who don't want to read it, the salient issue is that the judges didn't believe that the length of prorogation matched the reasons given for it. The reason given being for a Queen's speech to be held to start a new legislative program. Their point being that this could have just as easily been achieved with a prorogation of a few days. Following from that, the only other plausible reason for such a long prorogation would be to avoid parliamentary scrutiny.