Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

CelticRambler

woohoo!!! wrote: »

There's factions within in both sides who hate their own side more than they hate the Brexiteers/Remainers. Witness Tory contempt for BP, Labour's divisions, Lib Dems hate for Labour, SNP with their own agenda and so on. ...

It's wishful thinking that they're all of a sudden going to come to their senses before Brexit day when they cannot agree on anything. Maybe in 20 years, maybe never.

Yeah but ... but .... but did you not notice that they have all come to their senses, and over the course of a week inflicted six successive defeats on the government through common agreement.

The Johnson-Cummings prorogation coup turned out to be a very powerful catalyst and knocked sense back into a lot of those factions. With Johnson on the ropes, they only need to hold it together now for another few months for that wish-list to become a plan of action.

Enzokk

This tweet is one reaction to Yellowhammer,

https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1172136812032200709?s=20

So Brexit is okay because Ireland will suffer too, we promised you a better life but at least those guys will suffer as well as us.

gooch2k9

J Mysterio wrote: »

https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1172031968852287489

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive but that's a pretty damn hostile sentiment being expressed.

DOCARCH

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive but that's a pretty damn hostile sentiment being expressed.

From the Priti Patel school of thought!

An Claidheamh

Seems as if the Irish media and establishment have been conditioning us over the last two decades, that despite all the evidence and history we have with Britain, we must speak no evil, hear no evil, see no evil.

Varadkar and Fine Gael supporting the Orange Order and wearing British poppies has done nothing but embolden Britain and take us for granted.

Anyone who complained was branded as a "Provo" or strawmanned in some sense.

That tweet should be the main headline on the Irish Times and ought to be condemned by our government.... But it won't.

VinLieger

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Seems as if the Irish media and establishment have been conditioning us over the last two decades, that despite all the evidence and history we have with Britain, we must speak no evil, hear no evil, see no evil.

Varadkar and Fine Gael supporting the Orange Order and wearing British poppies has done nothing but embolden Britain and take us for granted.

Anyone who complained was branded as a "Provo" or strawmanned in some sense.

That tweet should be the main headline on the Irish Times and ought to be condemned by our government.... But it won't.

This entire post is a straw man tbh.

Everything you describe was done to try and get over our history and help with integration for a future UI.

Blaming people with objectively good intentions for the clusterfvck the tories have put everyone in is incredible petty and reductive.

Also when priti patel suggested starving us as a negotiating strategy it was condemned by our government so get off your selective memory high horse.

For Forks Sake

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive but that's a pretty damn hostile sentiment being expressed.

Joke will be on them once they realize that we manufacture most of the worlds Viagra (Cork) and Botox (Westport). They'll sign up for the backstop approximately three seconds after that revelation (maybe someone should highlight it on the side of a bus.

gmisk

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Joke will be on them once they realize that we manufacture most of the worlds Viagra (Cork) and Botox (Westport). They'll sign up for the backstop approximately three seconds after that revelation (maybe someone should highlight it on the side of a bus.

Riots on the streets of Essex!

woohoo!!!

CelticRambler wrote: »

woohoo!!! wrote: »

There's factions within in both sides who hate their own side more than they hate the Brexiteers/Remainers. Witness Tory contempt for BP, Labour's divisions, Lib Dems hate for Labour, SNP with their own agenda and so on. ...

It's wishful thinking that they're all of a sudden going to come to their senses before Brexit day when they cannot agree on anything. Maybe in 20 years, maybe never.

Yeah but ... but .... but did you not notice that they have all come to their senses, and over the course of a week inflicted six successive defeats on the government through common agreement.

The Johnson-Cummings prorogation coup turned out to be a very powerful catalyst and knocked sense back into a lot of those factions. With Johnson on the ropes, they only need to hold it together now for another few months for that wish-list to become a plan of action.

I noticed they re-iterate their opposition to a no deal, that they reacted to a blatant attempt to shut them down. Now if only they could show the same urgency in getting an alternative government and PM in place. And the real tricky bit, to put their differences aside, and get a WA ratified. I'm not holding my breath for this shenanigans has been going on nigh 3 years. I'm immensely frustrated with the dithering. And that on the last day before suspension they wasted hours on talking about Bercow. I mean ffs, they're staring down the barrel of calamity and it's still high fives about defeating Johnson, with zero credible alternative plan to get a WA ratified. This is why I referred yesterday to Bercow being part of the problem and it's obviously not just him, it's the whole clown show in Westminster.

prawnsambo

woohoo!!! wrote: »

And that on the last day before suspension they wasted hours on talking about Bercow. I mean ffs, they're staring down the barrel of calamity and it's still high fives about defeating Johnson, with zero credible alternative plan to get a WA ratified. This is why I referred yesterday to Bercow being part of the problem and it's obviously not just him, it's the whole clown show in Westminster.

Your criticism of Bercow seems to consist entirely of a dislike of his showmanship. Whether you like it or not, that's not what he'll be remembered for. Apart from giving a lot more UQs to backbenchers, he's taken SOs out of the sole control of government and introduced a secret ballot for chairs of committees. All of which has given parliament more power. And which power has actually resulted in the Benn Act (among others) which has a direct influence on brexit. And now he's calling for a written constitution. Something well overdue.

prawnsambo

An Claidheamh wrote: »

That tweet should be the main headline on the Irish Times and ought to be condemned by our government.... But it won't.

It wasn't a tweet. It was a secondhand report of what Steve Barclay may have said. So I doubt anyone's going to give a knee-jerk reaction (other than on Twitter) to such an unverified statement. Certainly not without a clearer attribution. And far better to just say that medicine supply will not be an issue post-brexit. Which it won't.

woohoo!!!

prawnsambo wrote: »

woohoo!!! wrote: »

And that on the last day before suspension they wasted hours on talking about Bercow. I mean ffs, they're staring down the barrel of calamity and it's still high fives about defeating Johnson, with zero credible alternative plan to get a WA ratified. This is why I referred yesterday to Bercow being part of the problem and it's obviously not just him, it's the whole clown show in Westminster.

Your criticism of Bercow seems to consist entirely of a dislike of his showmanship. Whether you like it or not, that's not what he'll be remembered for. Apart from giving a lot more UQs to backbenchers, he's taken SOs out of the sole control of government and introduced a secret ballot for chairs of committees. All of which has given parliament more power. And which power has actually resulted in the Benn Act (among others) which has a direct influence on brexit. And now he's calling for a written constitution. Something well overdue.

His showmanship isn't necessary and it undermines the very worthy things within his job that he has done and trying to do. There's another showman who is currently PM. It's not showmanship that's needed, it's leadership to try and get the semblance of something to bring their country back from the abyss. In any event, I've given my opinion and reasoning so I'm going to leave it there and stick to the topic of the thread.

lawred2

woohoo!!! wrote: »

His showmanship isn't necessary and it undermines the very worthy things within his job that he has done and trying to do. There's another showman who is currently PM. It's not showmanship that's needed, it's leadership to try and get the semblance of something to bring their country back from the abyss. In any event, I've given my opinion and reasoning so I'm going to leave it there and stick to the topic of the thread.

In your opinion.

In my opinion - it takes a very strong character to stand up for propriety and order. And to do so in the face of what are a very arrogant and brazen Tory front bench.

listermint

Bambi wrote: »

Just makes bots more expensive will not stop them

Making them more expensive is key to combating them. It makes the process less attractive and this more costly for the funders

murphaph

listermint wrote: »

Making them more expensive is key to combating them. It makes the process less attractive and this more costly for the funders

Exactly. Even Putin has his limits. The cost/benefit has to stack up.

Leroy42

lawred2 wrote: »

In your opinion.

In my opinion - it takes a very strong character to stand up for propriety and order. And to do so in the face of what are a very arrogant and brazen Tory front bench.

And let us not forget that TM government, of which the current PM which part of the cabinet, was the first to ever be held in contempt. That Johnson himself is under serious accusations of lying to the Queen and that he Chief of Staff has been found in contempt of Parliament for refusing to attend a committee hearing.

But yeah sure, its the guy trying to keep everything running within the rules that is the problem!

I also love the fact that more and more Tories are coming out claiming that there needs to be massive reform. This coming form the party that pulled a fast one on the LibDems over voting system reform. The party that has been in government for the last 9 nine, but now suddenly feels that the system is not working!

McMurphy

J Mysterio wrote: »

https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1172031968852287489

I'm pretty sure I heard some professor from maynooth (or some other university campus) on with Pat Kenny yesterday morning who said that pretty much all our medicine that was brought in via the UK has already been re-sourced from other countries in the EU because of the uncertainty with how Brexit may or may not turn out.

If true, and I've no reason to doubt the prof in question, that tweet is just another glaring example of how those across the pond will spew out any auld uninformed nonsense to their audience.

woohoo!!!

Leroy42 wrote: »

lawred2 wrote: »

In your opinion.

In my opinion - it takes a very strong character to stand up for propriety and order. And to do so in the face of what are a very arrogant and brazen Tory front bench.

And let us not forget that TM government, of which the current PM which part of the cabinet, was the first to ever be held in contempt. That Johnson himself is under serious accusations of lying to the Queen and that he Chief of Staff has been found in contempt of Parliament for refusing to attend a committee hearing.

But yeah sure, its the guy trying to keep everything running within the rules that is the problem!

I also love the fact that more and more Tories are coming out claiming that there needs to be massive reform. This coming form the party that pulled a fast one on the LibDems over voting system reform. The party that has been in government for the last 9 nine, but now suddenly feels that the system is not working!

Lawred clearly disagrees with my opinion and that's fine, no point getting into a row about it.

Kindly point out where I said that Bercow is the problem. As a refresher you will note that I think he's part of the problem due to excessive showmanship. You will also note that I've agreed with much of the good work he's done.

Seth Brundle

Mod Note: keep the Bercow showmanship stuff for a Bercow thread please!

PeadarCo

Johnny Dogs wrote:

If true, and I've no reason to doubt the prof in question, that tweet is just another glaring example of how those across the pond will spew out any auld uninformed nonsense to their audience.

Anecdotally I know of businesses outside medicine that have changed suppliers from UK based to alternatives within the EU. This is currently damaging the UK economy.

BluePlanet

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I heard some professor from maynooth (or some other university campus) on with Pat Kenny yesterday morning who said that pretty much all our medicine that was brought in via the UK has already been re-sourced from other countries in the EU because of the uncertainty with how Brexit may or may not turn out.

I think he was tweeting about the landbridge. If there are massive delays getting stuff into UK from Europe then medicine bound for Ireland that transits the landbridge is also impacted.

J Mysterio

Poor Boris heckled during Yorkshire speech

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1172485067916173314

joe40

prawnsambo wrote: »

Your criticism of Bercow seems to consist entirely of a dislike of his showmanship. Whether you like it or not, that's not what he'll be remembered for. Apart from giving a lot more UQs to backbenchers, he's taken SOs out of the sole control of government and introduced a secret ballot for chairs of committees. All of which has given parliament more power. And which power has actually resulted in the Benn Act (among others) which has a direct influence on brexit. And now he's calling for a written constitution. Something well overdue.

It is amazing the UK don't have a constitution and that is why imho the referendum was such a farce to begin with.

In our last referendums, eg Marriage equality, Abortion, we were not voting directly on the issue, we were simply voting to amend the constitution.

The Government then governs within the constraints of the constitution.

The Brexit referendum was a mess, with no clearly defined legal outcome, therfore open to all sorts of political interpretation.

Our referendums amend a legal document, our constitution, in a very specific unambiguous way.

The Brexit referendum was a prime example of how referendums can go wrong.

BorneTobyWilde

J Mysterio wrote: »

Poor Boris heckled during Yorkshire speech

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1172485067916173314

The hecklers voice faded as he was dragged from the room, how dare he have an opinion. He was asking questions, but we know the current trend of this Government is to not allow anyone to ask any questions.

trellheim

Worth adding mujtaba rahman to twitter feeds good analysis

https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe

Tell me how

And on the street it's not exactly going Boris's way either.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1172478890817839104

J Mysterio

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

The hecklers voice faded as he was dragged from the room, how dare he have an opinion. He was asking questions, but we know the current trend of this Government is to not allow anyone to ask any questions.

Well, it was a heckler. It wasnt the time to be asking questions during a speech, but it just illustrates the breakdown of civility and such. Can't feel sorry for Boris though, he has dragged the UK into the gutter, and now it is biting.

Heckled everywhere he goes. Asked by successive people to leave their town. He precipitated this. He caused the degeneration.

An Ciarraioch

Interesting poll data from Wales - 31% would vote for independence (with undecideds removed) now, while that rises to 41% if an independent Wales were to remain in the EU while the rest of the UK leaves. Other intriguing findings are that 44% of Labour voters and 55% of Lib Dems would back the second scenario:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/support-welsh-independence-soars-new-16911177

BonnieSituation

joe40 wrote: »

It is amazing the UK don't have a constitution and that is why imho the referendum was such a farce to begin with.

In our last referendums, eg Marriage equality, Abortion, we were not voting directly on the issue, we were simply voting to amend the constitution.

The Government then governs within the constraints of the constitution.

The Brexit referendum was a mess, with no clearly defined legal outcome, therfore open to all sorts of political interpretation.

Our referendums amend a legal document, our constitution, in a very specific unambiguous way.

The Brexit referendum was a prime example of how referendums can go wrong.

It helps the UK that they were the invader rather than the invaded which is why a codified constitution was never really required.

trellheim

Points to note

Dates and Timelines
UK Supreme Court hears appeal on Prorogue - 17 Sep
Conservative Party Conference Manchester 29 Sep - 2 Oct
Prorogue Ends / Queen's speech 14 october
Brexit EUCO 17 October
Current Brexit Date 31 October

If Prorogue appeal in the supreme finds with the Scottish judgment I assume all bets are off and scalps will be needed , otherwise stuff proceeds as per above.

Widely viewed no deal detail till after conference .... assuming so barnier and frost go into the smokefilled room 3rd Oct

Queens speech is a Monday .

EUCO will need a deal in front of them they can go for to have any hope as existing WA has everyone in PTSD , so a likely vote in advanced needed ...15 or 16 October otherwise its no deal and the Benn bill kicks in and we are back to needing scalps


tell me I am wrong but 2 oct -14 oct looks like the hardcore stuff