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Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)
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Tell me how wrote: »The only thing you can be absolutely sure of at this point is that Johnson is bluffing.
Jeremy Corbyn should be like a final year performing arts student and using this time to draft and prepare the deliver of a 7 to 10 minute speech, the likes of would go down in history, for the HoC whenever it returns outlining the shambles of the Brexit negotiators approach for the last 3 years.
If they were self-analytical enough, they'd be mortified for what they have done.
The EU came out through one of their negotiators and called Johnson's claims Bullsh*t. That at a time when Ian Duncan Smyth, Farage, Johnson, Katya Adler et al all said that the EU would be clamouring to step back from their position.
This emperor is a naturist.
HoC speeches won't change anything, and haven't for decades. In fact it's hard to see what would make a difference at this stage now that opinions are so entrenched.0 -
Tell me how wrote: »The only thing you can be absolutely sure of at this point is that Johnson is bluffing.
Jeremy Corbyn should be like a final year performing arts student and using this time to draft and prepare the deliver of a 7 to 10 minute speech, the likes of would go down in history, for the HoC whenever it returns outlining the shambles of the Brexit negotiators approach for the last 3 years.
If they were self-analytical enough, they'd be mortified for what they have done.
The EU came out through one of their negotiators and called Johnson's claims Bullsh*t. That at a time when Ian Duncan Smyth, Farage, Johnson, Katya Adler et al all said that the EU would be clamouring to step back from their position.
This emperor is a naturist.
His regular visits to EU leaders seem to be a total joke, nothing ever happens at them. And yet he keeps repeating "We are moving ever closer to a deal". He is lying to the British public.0 -
J Mysterio wrote: »I understand what you are saying, and I agree with your analysis of how this will be perceived by many in the UK, but have you considered that maybe Bettel doesnt give a sh1t? We are past the rubicon now.
For so long the Brexit conversation has been about moderating things for British taste and the British audience, but that was when a deal was still negotiable and May was actually putting effort in and trying things in parliament. Johnson has no intention of doing this. He is offering little and is like a bull in paliament. Why should Bettel or anyone else moderate themselves now for Johnson?
It is just another angle on the 'give Boris something to take home' line. He deserves nothing, has earned nothing... Other than contempt. What is he offering? Bettel has an audience too.
And Bettel, he actually meant what he was talking about today, he had some passion to bring to it. This is in direct contrast to Boris someone who is woodenly acting out some pantomine according to an awful script. If he had the courage of his convictions of course he would have spoken today. He has went from Hulk to coward in one day.
If it's the case he doesn't give a sh*t then he is doing Ireland no favours, seeing as we are the EU state most exposed in the event of a No Deal scenario. His comments today suggested he was on Ireland's side, and I'm inclined to believe that, but that requires a smarter approach than what he offered today. By all means say this stuff behind closed doors to all and sundry, but a more savvy approach is needed in public. There are cynical games being played on the Brexit side and the EU 27 need to be wise to it. Today was the first time I sensed this was not the case.
As to why bother being moderate, and why not just be contemptuous towards them, simply put because that plays right into Johnson's hands. That helps him domestically in the message he wants to sell. Why give him what he wants when he can be hoisted by his own petard? Merkel showed the way to handle him last month. All smiles, diplomatic language, and wait for him to walk into a trap of his own non-logic.
To me it's a bit like how the Irish government deals with the DUP. Of course we'd instinctively love our government to hit back at them whenever they make their ludicrous claims and use insulting language, but to do so would be to dance to their tune. That would help them with their electorate as they feed off such confrontations. Far better to let it slide and not give them the satisfaction.0 -
To nitpick further, Pandora let the evils of the world out of her box (jar), only hope remainedCapt'n Midnight wrote: »Pandora let hope out
May's self imposed red lines ruled it out0 -
MrMusician18 wrote: »HoC speeches won't change anything, and haven't for decades. In fact it's hard to see what would make a difference at this stage now that opinions are so entrenched.
Certainly won't in terms of Brexit, but, if it was done right, it would co-ordinate and galvanise the opposition ahead of the General Election.
(I don't believe Corbyn has the capacity to do this however)0 -
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Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »If it's the case he doesn't give a sh*t then he is doing Ireland no favours, seeing as we are the EU state most exposed in the event of a No Deal scenario. His comments today suggested he was on Ireland's side, and I'm inclined to believe that, but that requires a smarter approach than what he offered today. By all means say this stuff behind closed doors to all and sundry, but a more savvy approach is needed in public. There are cynical games being played on the Brexit side and the EU 27 need to be wise to it. Today was the first time I sensed this was not the case.
As to why bother being moderate, and why not just be contemptuous towards them, simply put because that plays right into Johnson's hands. That helps him domestically in the message he wants to sell. Why give him what he wants when he can be hoisted by his own petard? Merkel showed the way to handle him last month. All smiles, diplomatic language, and wait for him to walk into a trap of his own non-logic.
To me it's a bit like how the Irish government deals with the DUP. Of course we'd instinctively love our government to hit back at them whenever they make their ludicrous claims and use insulting language, but to do so would be to dance to their tune. That would help them with their electorate as they feed off such confrontations. Far better to let it slide and not give them the satisfaction.
You're missing the point im making. We all know about the spin in the UK, but maybe some EU leaders have had enough of this idea that we should moderate ourselves to placate the UK.
The ball has been in their court for some time. Nothing has happened since May's attempts to get the WA passed. Boris is completely belligerent. Many seem to still think the EU will just cave and break the fundamental principles of the union for the UK just because. Well, no. Bettel was right in everything he said and did today, and I found it refreshing.
Twice in as many weeks we have had leaders say it straight to this charlatan. No more playing games - this is the serious position we are in - if the UK refuse the negotiated WA, it's incumbent upon them to put forward a satisfactory solution. No more kid gloves, and tough sh1t if the UK domestic audience don't like it. And yes, even if that plays for Johnson's short lived 'popularity' and - yes - also if that plays into the hands of the UK tabloids, they will lie anyway.
I'm glad to see Johnson confronted with the reality: by EU leaders, by small protests at press conferences, and by weird old guys in depressed Northern UK towns too. Johnson and the UK have to face the facts.0 -
Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »If it's the case he doesn't give a sh*t then he is doing Ireland no favours, seeing as we are the EU state most exposed in the event of a No Deal scenario. His comments today suggested he was on Ireland's side, and I'm inclined to believe that, but that requires a smarter approach than what he offered today. By all means say this stuff behind closed doors to all and sundry, but a more savvy approach is needed in public. There are cynical games being played on the Brexit side and the EU 27 need to be wise to it. Today was the first time I sensed this was not the case.
As to why bother being moderate, and why not just be contemptuous towards them, simply put because that plays right into Johnson's hands. That helps him domestically in the message he wants to sell. Why give him what he wants when he can be hoisted by his own petard? Merkel showed the way to handle him last month. All smiles, diplomatic language, and wait for him to walk into a trap of his own non-logic.
To me it's a bit like how the Irish government deals with the DUP. Of course we'd instinctively love our government to hit back at them whenever they make their ludicrous claims and use insulting language, but to do so would be to dance to their tune. That would help them with their electorate as they feed off such confrontations. Far better to let it slide and not give them the satisfaction.
I think you are vastly overestimating the importance of this kind of thing. Todays events will be forgotten next week and will matter not a jot to the intentions or calculations of the main players. The people who support Brexit, and esecially a no-deal Brexit already believe the worst of the EU. An EU leader making evident their frustration, or an EU leader on their best behaviour is not going to change this one way or the other. The actions of the EU did not create the toxic atmosphere in the UK and tip-toeing around the UK is not going to help defuse that atmosphere now.
The UKs actions over the last few years, and especially the last few months have been downright disgraceful, they are lucky they are not facing a much greater backlash from the EU than the leader of a small nation telling the truth in their presance.
The UK is going to have to face some harsh realities in the near future, lets not pretend otherwise for fear that the truth will offend them.0 -
Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »If it's the case he doesn't give a sh*t then he is doing Ireland no favours, seeing as we are the EU state most exposed in the event of a No Deal scenario.
But if they are going out No Deal, and all of this is just to try and blame someone else, then the louder and clearer the EU side say that the UK have presented no proposals and are not negotiating, the better.
Patting Johnson on the head and sending him back with some scraps to show Westminster is just letting him run down the clock while lying to the UK public.
He does not have the power to get a deal through Parliament unless he makes a giant U turn. So, let's see him do that before we start humouring him.0 -
J Mysterio wrote: »I'm glad to see Johnson confronted with the reality: by EU leaders
In fact, I'm sure this is the real reason Johnson skipped the presser beside Bettel, he knew he'd get a tongue lashing in front of the press and cameras and he didn't enjoy it in Dublin, classical refs and all.0 -
J Mysterio wrote: »You're missing the point im making. We all know about the spin in the UK, but maybe some EU leaders have had enough of this idea that we should moderate ourselves to placate the UK.
The ball has been in their court for some time. Nothing has happened since May's attempts to get the WA passed. Boris is completely belligerent. Many seem to still think the EU will just cave and break the fundamental principles of the union for the UK just because. Well, no. Bettel was right in everything he said and did today, and I found it refreshing.
Twice in as many weeks we have had leaders say it straight to this charlatan. No more playing games - this is the serious position we are in - if the UK refuse the negotiated WA, it's incumbent upon them to put forward a satisfactory solution. No more kid gloves, and tough sh1t if the UK domestic audience don't like it. And yes, even if that plays for Johnson's short lived 'popularity' and - yes - also if that plays into the hands of the UK tabloids, they will lie anyway.
I'm glad to see Johnson confronted with the reality: by EU leaders, by small protests at press conferences, and by weird old guys in depressed Northern UK towns too. Johnson and the UK have to face the facts.
The Brexit brigade on Twitter seem to be mostly hostile and aggressive. Anger is their default setting. I don't think the EU should be overly concerned about upsetting them.0 -
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As much as I'm loath to say this, I can see Boris's and Laura's point. It would be virtually impossible for him to hold a press conference and look statesmanlike when you have protesters chanting right in his face, and it completely nullifies all chances of the presser looking any way even-handed, before even a word is said. If Bettel had come to Britain, and had to do a presser with a loud group of Brexiteers chanting away only feet from him, would've he been enthusiastic?
That said, it was a dumb tweet to put out.
Would it have been worse than the house of commons?
I didn't ask for Boris to be enthusiastic but at a certain point he will have to learn that not everyi is done to please him.0 -
The protests were mainly by British citizens resident in Luxembourg and anecdotally, they are not happy with UK support or communication for their position since the Brexit vote. The numbers taking dual nationality has gone through the roof and represent an increase of over 800% locally.https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1173607985911873542
The BBC really is nothing more than a Tory propoganda distributor these days.
I'm not a Boris Johnson fan, but maybe he had a point. It would have been chaotic if he had taken part with protestors there cheering the Luxembourg PM and probably booing him. No politician in their right mind would have taken part.
When you are arguing on Johnson's side here, the truth is you are looking at things through a British prism. Even more so than Ireland, Luxembourg is a country where the senior politicians walk among us as bog standard human beings. Bettel did the press conference despite a large number of largely foreign protesters because that is his job. Johnson did not do it because a large number of his own citizens were protesting despite it also being his job. From outside the UK bubble, the optics of this are terrible. Johnson is afraid of his own citizens. Bettel is not, and explicitly recognised the right to protest. This is something the UK has been working to curtail btw.
Politically Bettel is an extremely sharp operator. He is also extremely bright and in general, he is super charming. But he does not suffer fools gladly. Johnson has been bringing nothing of substance to the table of trying to find an agreement.
48% of the people who live in Luxembourg were not born here. The place also absorbs the equivalent of a quarter of its population daily in people who cross the border to work here. The context of the UK moaning about freedom of movement plays badly with the UK citizens who moved here and with the locals.
Personal view is that Johnson, if he was any kind of a leader at all, should have done the presser. He didn't and to be frank, a lot of the UK population don't see him as a leader. We are way past the point of pretending. The EU leaders owe more to 450 million EU citizens than they do to barely half the voters of the Brexit referendum in 2016. I don't think appeasing the 17 million constantly is in either their interest or ours. Reality matters.0 -
One of them, Ronan Lavery, is Irish. Aidan O'Neill is a Scot though (obviously) of Irish descent.J Mysterio wrote: »Two of those QC with Irish names.0 -
Just like the UK is powering ahead with this facade of a no deal possibility, the EU seem to have started to make an extension seem unlikely to be agreed my all members if it's requested. Imo, the latter is more likely to actually happen.0
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The protests were mainly by British citizens resident in Luxembourg and anecdotally, they are not happy with UK support or communication for their position since the Brexit vote. The numbers taking dual nationality has gone through the roof and represent an increase of over 800% locally.
When you are arguing on Johnson's side here, the truth is you are looking at things through a British prism. Even more so than Ireland, Luxembourg is a country where the senior politicians walk among us as bog standard human beings. Bettel did the press conference despite a large number of largely foreign protesters because that is his job. Johnson did not do it because a large number of his own citizens were protesting despite it also being his job. From outside the UK bubble, the optics of this are terrible. Johnson is afraid of his own citizens. Bettel is not, and explicitly recognised the right to protest. This is something the UK has been working to curtail btw.
Politically Bettel is an extremely sharp operator. He is also extremely bright and in general, he is super charming. But he does not suffer fools gladly. Johnson has been bringing nothing of substance to the table of trying to find an agreement.
48% of the people who live in Luxembourg were not born here. The place also absorbs the equivalent of a quarter of its population daily in people who cross the border to work here. The context of the UK moaning about freedom of movement plays badly with the UK citizens who moved here and with the locals.
Personal view is that Johnson, if he was any kind of a leader at all, should have done the presser. He didn't and to be frank, a lot of the UK population don't see him as a leader. We are way past the point of pretending. The EU leaders owe more to 450 million EU citizens than they do to barely half the voters of the Brexit referendum in 2016. I don't think appeasing the 17 million constantly is in either their interest or ours. Reality matters.
Had a quick look through some of the Brexit groups on FB (Leave Means Leave and Brexit News, to be exact) and the general consensus there is that Johnson did the right thing by not speaking, the 'press conference' was a set-up, and Luxembourg don't produce anything and only sponge off the UK etc etc (things go downhill from there). It's very hard to reach out to that mindset.0 -
The humiliation that May had to endure at the hands of the EU at one of the summits (I believe) was also supposed to shore up some support for her out of sympathy and her reaction was going to be a catalyst, but nothing changed because the facts didn't change. Johnson is still a liar and cannot be trusted, just one that was shown up for a coward in public whereas before he could bluff his way around a little.
As for those facts, Faisal Islam has a thread about business and their reaction to no-deal,
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1173700895336521731?s=20
Uncertainty reigns in the UK and we know business doesn't like that. He goes on in the thread to look at research The IOD (Institute of Directors) has done and there are some interesting tweets.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1173707244053118977?s=20
That is on relocation's, seems that just about 2/3rds aren't planning to relocate but the rest are planning to, have already drawn up plans or are in the process of doing so.0 -
Had a quick look through some of the Brexit groups on FB (Leave Means Leave and Brexit News, to be exact) and the general consensus there is that Johnson did the right thing by not speaking, the 'press conference' was a set-up, and Luxembourg don't produce anything and only sponge off the UK etc etc (things go downhill from there). It's very hard to reach out to that mindset.
In fairness the truth is with those mindsets no amount of reasoning or logic will reach them because they refuse to listen. These are basically the kinds of idiots that wont cop on until they're forced to confront the reality and consequences of their own ignorance and stupidity. Its only when that happens that you can force some sense of sanity back into them because any excuses are met with the "you were warned and you didnt listen" approach and they can't escape that reality of their own choosing.
I'm honestly not sure the UK will be still in the EU after October at least so long as Boris is around as this whole debacle is down to the Tories and of course Farage and comrades. The only thing that might force a change of course is if theree a serious run on Sterling in the week or 2 prior to Brexit or buisnesses decide to pull out in large numbers prior to it. Honestly serious events that would hit the UK economy hard but still early enough before they cross the point of no return.0 -
The humiliation that May had to endure at the hands of the EU at one of the summits (I believe) was also supposed to shore up some support for her out of sympathy and her reaction was going to be a catalyst, but nothing changed because the facts didn't change. Johnson is still a liar and cannot be trusted, just one that was shown up for a coward in public whereas before he could bluff his way around a little.
As for those facts, Faisal Islam has a thread about business and their reaction to no-deal,
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1173700895336521731?s=20
Uncertainty reigns in the UK and we know business doesn't like that. He goes on in the thread to look at research The IOD (Institute of Directors) has done and there are some interesting tweets.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1173707244053118977?s=20
That is on relocation's, seems that just about 2/3rds aren't planning to relocate but the rest are planning to, have already drawn up plans or are in the process of doing so.
they just won't care0 -
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beggars_bush wrote: »they just won't care
F**k business!
Brexit is definitely a cult! Brainwashing by the elite/those who stand to gain most.0 -
The Brexit brigade on Twitter seem to be mostly hostile and aggressive. Anger is their default setting. I don't think the EU should be overly concerned about upsetting them.
I recall an episode of the West Wing, wherein President Bartlet's communications team are having trouble with his re-election campaign. The GOP are calling out Bartlet for being an over-educated snob, and Bartlet's refusal to act dumb and uninterested to counter it makes things worse.
Eventually his Comms Director realises that it's a gift that the Republicans irredeemably think the President is an educated snob - because now he can be.
The UK press, and the Leave campaigners, and the Leave supporters...they're all going to twist whatever the EU says. You see it on Twitter and comments sections all the time. When the EU stands by Ireland and the single market, it's "bullying" the UK. It's leaders are being "rude and snobbish". When the EU acts conciliatory and friendly, it's "giving up" or "abandoning Ireland". They already have their talking points, and they already think the EU's leaders are bullies, and snobs, and worse.
So why bother covering up the frustrations? They already think we're elitist and rude regardless of what happens...why bother tip toeing around them to try and avoid upsetting them further? Call them out, show their leaders up for being the careless, heartless fools they are. You're never going to sway the Leave voters anyway.0 -
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Listen to this stupidity:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/16/brexit-latest-news-boris-johnson-talks-juncker-eu-must-show-flexibility-says-raab-ahead-of-boris-johnsons-key-meeting-with-juncker-live-news-latest-news
Johnson also insisted he wouldn’t delay the UK’s withdrawal from the European Union on 31 October, should no deal be struck by then, while also promising to abide by the law requiring him to request a delay in those same circumstances.
He failed to explain how he intended to align these apparently contradictory positions. Here’s a portion of that exchange:
Kuenssberg asked Johnson how he intended to “get round” that law, noting that he has said he will not delay Brexit. He replied:
I won’t. Here’s, here’s what I want. I will uphold the constitution I will obey the law but we will come out on October 31st.
Kuenssberg again asked the prime minister: “But how, if MPs have changed the law to stop you doing that?” He responded:
We’re going to come out on October 31st and it’s vital that people understand that the UK will not extend. We won’t go on remaining in the EU beyond October. What on earth is the point? Do you know how much it costs?
Once again, Kuenssberg asked Johnson: “But how will you do that if MPs have changed the law to stop you? Are you looking for a way round the law. Because that’s what it sounds like?” The prime minister again replied:
We will obey the law but we will come out and we will come out, I should say, on October 31st.
Kuenssberg tried yet again, asking: “But that means you are looking for a way round the law. I mean to be really clear about this, Parliament has changed the law to make it almost impossible to take us out of the EU without a deal at the end of October. But you say that you will not do it. That means that you must be looking for a way around the law?” Johnson replied:
Well you know those are your words. What we’re going to do is come out on October 31st deal or no deal.0 -
It means - if it means anything - that he has, or thinks he has, a strategy which will prevent the Benn Bill from having its intended effect and result in an extension, but he doesn't want to disclose that strategy in case, once people know what it is, they will find a way to counter it.0
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Would it have been worse than the house of commons?
Yes, but ... no, not really. The context of this no-show will be forgotten about, but that image of an empty lectern will live on forever. Every time Johnson uses the "chicken" insult towards Corbyn from now on, he'll risks having it thrown back at him:Imreoir2 wrote:I think you are vastly overestimating the importance of this kind of thing. Todays events will be forgotten next week and will matter not a jot to the intentions or calculations of the main players.
"You're calling me chicken? Who's the big man who ran away from a handful of protestors in Luxembourg? Let me see if I can find that photo ... We knew you were so scared of your fellow MPs that you shut down Parilament; now we know that you're nothing but a sissy who'll run away from 'a 3-month old girl & a golden retriever puppy called Luna'"
Bettel made reference to a flaw in the Remain campaign in the UK, one which I have previously said applied also to the EU: that not enough was said loudly and clearly about how and why the EU was a force for good in the lives of ordinary UK citizens. Even last night, Peter Bone was on Sky still saying how the EU will do a deal at the last minute ... :mad: There is probably nothing the EU can do now that'll change the minds of the "17.4m" - but press conferences like Varadkar's and Bettel's (and Verhofstat's tweets) are one way of getting "this stuff" out from behind closed doors.Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »By all means say this stuff behind closed doors to all and sundry, but a more savvy approach is needed in public. There are cynical games being played on the Brexit side and the EU 27 need to be wise to it. Today was the first time I sensed this was not the case.
Remember: for another 44 days, the 50m Brits who didn't vote or Brexit are EU citizens too.0 -
I recall an episode of the West Wing, wherein President Bartlet's communications team are having trouble with his re-election campaign. The GOP are calling out Bartlet for being an over-educated snob, and Bartlet's refusal to act dumb and uninterested to counter it makes things worse.
Eventually his Comms Director realises that it's a gift that the Republicans irredeemably think the President is an educated snob - because now he can be.
The UK press, and the Leave campaigners, and the Leave supporters...they're all going to twist whatever the EU says. You see it on Twitter and comments sections all the time. When the EU stands by Ireland and the single market, it's "bullying" the UK. It's leaders are being "rude and snobbish". When the EU acts conciliatory and friendly, it's "giving up" or "abandoning Ireland". They already have their talking points, and they already think the EU's leaders are bullies, and snobs, and worse.
So why bother covering up the frustrations? They already think we're elitist and rude regardless of what happens...why bother tip toeing around them to try and avoid upsetting them further? Call them out, show their leaders up for being the careless, heartless fools they are. You're never going to sway the Leave voters anyway.
There's a bit of a siege mentality with them. They hate anyone who is opposed to Brexit and who doesn't believe in it. That would be half the UK and most of the rest of the world.0 -
There's a bit of a siege mentality with them. They hate anyone who is opposed to Brexit and who doesn't believe in it. That would be half the UK and most of the rest of the world.
'Believe' like a religion.
There's no reasoning with fanatics and they are all happy to be thrown under the bus so their rich masters won't have to pay tax on the billions they already own. Welcome to England.. if I was middle class in England I would be jumping ship asap. Someone's going to have to pay for this mess, and it won't be the billionaires... middle class will be squeezed yet again.!0 -
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Again, we are back to thinking that Johnson is going to pull a fast one and magically deliver against the odds.
But there is no evidence of his ability to do anything close to that. Johnson clearly has charisma but he has never shown any ability.
He has lost 6 votes already. He has lost 20+ MPs in the last few weeks. But the media in the UK continues to put faith that not only will he get a deal from the EU but somehow get a divided house to pass it.0 -
Again, we are back to thinking that Johnson is going to pull a fast one and magically deliver against the odds.
But there is no evidence of his ability to do anything close to that. Johnson clearly has charisma but he has never shown any ability.
He has lost 6 votes already. He has lost 20+ MPs in the last few weeks. But the media in the UK continues to put faith that not only will he get a deal from the EU but somehow get a divided house to pass it.
Watch the All-Ireland final here on the outskirts of west kerry on Saturday at the local tigh tabhairine. Chatting at the pub, I was surprised that the locals thought there'd be a deal. Just a matter of faith - they all wanted a deal (farming and fishing being the 2 employers here besides the various State jobs and tourism.) I pointed out the best deal was Remain, it seemed like I was speaking Greek. Also a strong sentiment was that the locals wanted Brexit to end, not a lot of love for the UK here (Martin Ferris was a long-time TD for the area), but all wanted 'a deal.' It didn't compute with them when I pointed out what you were saying, Johnson is beyond inept, setting a record for most lost votes at the start of his premiership, lost more than Thatcher after 11 years, etc. Lots of faith in that there would be a deal. Ahh well.0 -
Watch the All-Ireland final here on the outskirts of west kerry on Saturday at the local tigh tabhairine. Chatting at the pub, I was surprised that the locals thought there'd be a deal. Just a matter of faith - they all wanted a deal (farming and fishing being the 2 employers here besides the various State jobs and tourism.) I pointed out the best deal was Remain, it seemed like I was speaking Greek. Also a strong sentiment was that the locals wanted Brexit to end, not a lot of love for the UK here (Martin Ferris was a long-time TD for the area), but all wanted 'a deal.' It didn't compute with them when I pointed out what you were saying, Johnson is beyond inept, setting a record for most lost votes at the start of his premiership, lost more than Thatcher after 11 years, etc. Lots of faith in that there would be a deal. Ahh well.
id say that the vast majority of people in ireland and the uk ( and probably every country in eurpoe) think like this. ''in the end the political class will do what they do and agree ''a deal''. now ''a deal'' might be a further extension, a second ref, an election followed by a revoke/referendum/deal/whatever your having yourself.
very few people believe that when it comes to it no deal will be allowed to happen. its a fairly rational belief based on two main factors. 1. no deal is so mental and damaging to all concerned that a only a complete imbecile would want to be responsible for it. 2. history (last march) shows that when it comes to it the Brits wont actually do it because of reason 1.0 -
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As for those facts, Faisal Islam has a thread about business and their reaction to no-deal.....
That is on relocation's, seems that just about 2/3rds aren't planning to relocate but the rest are planning to, have already drawn up plans or are in the process of doing so.
German friend of mine who is a senior guy with a car parts manufacturer told me they have two facilities in the UK employing close to 2,000 people. Their Brexit planning is complete and very straightforward.
Option 1 - If there's a Withdrawal Agreement they carry on with their UK factories.
Option 2 - If there's a No Deal Brexit his immediate job is to shut down both factories straight away. No if's or but's. Hanging around seeing how things may or may not play out in a No Deal Brexit is too risky for them financially. They know what it'll cost them to shut both factories down straight away and move production elsewhere in the group so that is what they have resolved to do.
The decision is made, it's only a question of whether events will trigger Option 1 or Option 2.0
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This discussion has been closed.
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