Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

prunudo

lawred2 wrote: »

that interviewer was quite rude and shouty - interrupting quite a lot - with a very arrogant tone. You could even hear him huffing at some points while Simon was laying reality out bare before him.

Funny how I very rarely hear similar directed towards spoofing Brexiteers.

Simon did well to not simply hang up.

I don't think the interviewer was even taking account of what Coveney was saying, seemed to be of the view that whatever Barclay and the Johnson government said was fact and that a politician from Ireland wouldn't have a clue about what he was talking about.

Igotadose

prunudo wrote: »

I don't think the interviewer was even taking account of what Coveney was saying, seemed to be of the view that whatever Barclay and the Johnson government said was fact and that a politician from Ireland wouldn't have a clue about what he was talking about.

Who was the interviewer? Struck me as an elderly has-been commentator that the BBC has by the handful. He was just sort of sneakily echoing what Barclay et al have been saying and being unhappy when Coveney demolished his talking points.

Dytalus

prunudo wrote: »

I don't think the interviewer was even taking account of what Coveney was saying, seemed to be of the view that whatever Barclay and the Johnson government said was fact and that a politician from Ireland wouldn't have a clue about what he was talking about.

I've seen a couple of interviews (in particular the one with Jonathan Powell on Newsnight) where the interviewer has been followed the exact same pattern of questions.

"Is Ireland now realising how disastrous no deal would be" -> "Why won't the EU offer/accept alternatives?" -> Interviewee explains the reasoning of the backstop -> "So what you're saying is there really is no alternative to the backstop and it's completely necessary?"

It's practically a script at this point. The Coveney and Powell interviewers both even used almost identical phrasing once they'd "realised" how important the backstop was to Ireland.

We're caught in groundhog day at this point.

Seth Brundle

I'm not really sure what to say to this - he's obviously hoping for a Darwin award...
https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1174656247766900736

Dytalus

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I'm not really sure what to say to this - he's obviously hoping for a Darwin award...
https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1174656247766900736

I know it's a dumb thing to nitpick....but if the UK manages to leave Europe I'll be singularly impressed.

How can someone be diabetic and so casually dismiss the prospect of dying because of it. He must really hate the EU.

Tropheus

Dytalus wrote: »

He must really hate the EU.

Remember the throngs of people protesting on the streets in the years before the referendum? Neither do I.

This sorry mess just shows how easy it is to mobilise the gullible.

pixelburp

Something tells me a person that stubborn would be a nightmare to deal with if there WERE any insulin shortages. That kind of guy who kicks up a fuss and demands preferential treatment despite appeals for patience. I'm sure his family would prefer he didn't die, I daresay there'd be a wife or husband distraught at his confident voxpop.

This is what has been said for ages, Brexit no longer exists as a political decision; it's dogma, and direct democracy taken to an economically suicidal extreme. This fellow is an ideological martyr, Brexit is the paradise promised if he sacrifices his life and dignity.

Kermit.de.frog

Steve Barclay sent packing today by Barnier to come up with a realistic proposal quick fast.

Big pushback by the EU side today (including Coveney this morning) on the optimism from the British govt.

Strazdas

Tropheus wrote: »

Remember the throngs of people protesting on the streets in the years before the referendum? Neither do I.

This sorry mess just shows how easy it is to mobilise the gullible.

There was no working class movement behind Brexit either. Most of the leading Eurosceptics were right wing, middle class and university educated.

Leroy42

Tropheus wrote: »

Remember the throngs of people protesting on the streets in the years before the referendum? Neither do I.

This sorry mess just shows how easy it is to mobilise the gullible.

Absolutely. It is actually quite amazing how such a peripheral idea to most of the public, hence why most of them have no real idea what the EU actually does, has not become the great divide within the country.

Whilst people may well have been unhappy with the EU, they certainly weren't as exercised as they currently are, as evidenced by that Voxpop where the guy is willing to die to get Brexit.

It should act as a warning to all democracies, including our own, how quickly ideas can become mainstream and change the very nature of political discourse and indeed the direction of a nation.

Kermit.de.frog

BREXIT: UK PM TOLD COLLEAGUES HE DOES NOT EXPECT TO BE ABLE TO REACH FULL “LEGALLY OPERABLE” DEAL COVERING IRISH BORDER AT MEETING OF EU LEADERS - FT

Quelle surprise

Borderhopper

Dytalus wrote: »

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I'm not really sure what to say to this - he's obviously hoping for a Darwin award...
https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1174656247766900736

I know it's a dumb thing to nitpick....but if the UK manages to leave Europe I'll be singularly impressed.

How can someone be diabetic and so casually dismiss the prospect of dying because of it. He must really hate the EU.

There’s a saying in the north- “he/she kills dead dogs”. Sounds but weird, but it’s used to describe someone full of false, and vocal, bravado. You’ll know the type. “If it was me, I would’ve…” “lucky I wasn’t there, because…”. The individual is usually describing their hypothetical reaction to a situation they hadn’t, and secretly would rather not, be in. This dude is killing whole packs

Leroy42

Yesterday, Stephen Barclay, admitted that the UK would have no arrangements ready by 31st October but that the EU should give them the transition period anyway even though there was no arrangement for a transition in A50.

For effectively he has just asked for a one year extension, at the very least.

The reality of this was hardly even mentioned in the media. Of course he finished with demanding that the EU do something about it.

Strazdas

Leroy42 wrote: »

Absolutely. It is actually quite amazing how such a peripheral idea to most of the public, hence why most of them have no real idea what the EU actually does, has not become the great divide within the country.

Whilst people may well have been unhappy with the EU, they certainly weren't as exercised as they currently are, as evidenced by that Voxpop where the guy is willing to die to get Brexit.

It should act as a warning to all democracies, including our own, how quickly ideas can become mainstream and change the very nature of political discourse and indeed the direction of a nation.

It almost seems as if it's the referendum and not EU membership that has everyone wound up. The referendum result itself is the rallying point, not the EU.

If true, it tells you what a catastrophic blunder Cameron made in holding it.

Joe_ Public

That story about the UK asking the EU to keep their proposals secret has the obvious look of a manufactured row about it, they're practically asking the impossible and they know it, just so it gives them another excuse to be outraged at the actions of the other side. It's so transparent and another reason you find it hard to take anything they are doing in these "negotiations" seriously.

Second thing that annoyed me today was listening to the commentator Liam Halligan diss Varadkar on the bbc politics show this morning. I've heard Halligan a few times on shows now and what particularly annoys me about him is he almost always prefaces his comments about brexit and the irish border with "i follow irish politics very closely..." or "i'm very close to the irish scene etc etc" and then proceeds to show hardly any understanding of the situation here whatsoever. I cant see a clip of him actually speaking this morning, but he tweeted the following afterwards and it's indicative of what he was spewing out on the bbc:

https://twitter.com/LiamHalligan/status/1174676555890601984

Jim2007

Dytalus wrote: »

I know it's a dumb thing to nitpick....but if the UK manages to leave Europe I'll be singularly impressed.

How can someone be diabetic and so casually dismiss the prospect of dying because of it. He must really hate the EU.

It only works if you don’t believe that that will happen. They are simply not used to dealing with a rule based society and they fully expect that rules can and will be broken to give them the deal they want if they just hold out.

In Ireland everyone understands for instance that no matter how we feel about an issue, what ever is set out in the constitution is what will be applied and if we are not satisfied then there is another set of rules to follow if we want it changed. And it is the same with the other 26 members. That is not the case in the UK with their flexible construction.

They really don’t expect that if BREXIT happens, that the rules will be applied until it happens. It is beyond their comprehension that the 27 will refer to the rule book and start applying it. But that is what will happen because that is the culture of the 27.

Joe_ Public

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I'm not really sure what to say to this - he's obviously hoping for a Darwin award...
https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1174656247766900736

Just goes to show the forces unleashed by brexit are almost impossible to fully comprehend. You can read a million articles, watch a thousand documentaries, listen to hundreds of political speeches and still the compulsions driving these people remain elusive and unknowable. Remember seeing another bbc report from a manufacturing plant also in the midlands and while the md and part-owner was a remainer, the machine operators - most of whom, the reporter told us, never ever voted but made the exception in 2016 - were nearly all leavers despite the md telling them they'd have to shut machines down in the event of a no deal exit and some of them would lose their jobs. Then there are the Ulster farmers facing wipeout near the border saying, so what, we want a no deal anyway. I think i can kind of understand the rust belt enthusiasm for trump in the US, but the hard brexit vote in these industrial areas of the UK continues to completely elude me. Just not rational in any sense i can think of.

J Mysterio

Supposed Memo sent to EU27 following latest half arsed crap from UK

https://twitter.com/QuentinAries/status/1175065612906827778

Shelga

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Remember seeing another bbc report from a manufacturing plant also in the midlands and while the md and part-owner was a remainer, the machine operators - most of whom, the reporter told us, never ever voted but made the exception in 2016 - were nearly all leavers despite the md telling them they'd have to shut machines down in the event of a no deal exit and some of them would lose their jobs. Then there are the Ulster farmers facing wipeout near the border saying, so what, we want a no deal anyway.

Ian Dunt has been strongly against Cameron's assertion on his saturation press tour this week that he had to have the referendum as "there was a growing desire to get this dealt with". This is not true- only 13% cited the EU as the most important issue facing the UK in the year before the referendum.

He still can't just come out and say- I did this to get UKIP off my back and it was a colossal error. Now you have people like that diabetic man saying he doesn't care if he can't get insulin, as long as they're not in the EU. Cameron unleashed all of this, no one else.

And yes it is scary how easy it has been to convince these people that leaving the EU is the number one priority in their lives, when they couldn't have cared less 5 years ago, beyond the occasional conversation down the pub. They have absolutely no comprehension of how brainwashed they sound. There is no other word for it.

Watching the coverage of the climate strikes today, imagine how much better the world would be if half the energy that has gone into covering Brexit in the last 4 years had been directed at tackling carbon emissions.

Quin_Dub

##Mod Note##

Incredibly , In a little over a month we have already worn out yet another set of Hamsters.

Time for us to move to version 11 of this thread.

Enjoy!