Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

cryptocurrency

CelticRambler wrote: »

And the EU has made it clear that "no deal, it is, then."

So that's a win for the UK, in your book?

Of course it is, how can you think anything else.

We all know that the economic Armageddon of no deal is utter nonsense.

firemansam4

J Mysterio wrote: »

I had a 'day off' from this crap and am catching up on posts. Your 'efforts' have been a bit lacking I must say. That you are giving up already and blaming the posters here for that is basically Brexit in a nut shell.

Start posting all guts and glory, receive a contrary view in return, and then give up and retreat. I'm sure you are 'more convinced than ever that Britiain must leave the EU'. It's quite pathetic.

If you are genuine in your want to debate the issues, there is a place for you here.

RE the Guardian, that poster Firemansam4 is clearly incorrect and under the wrong impression. That is not the majority view.

I have already stated in a previous post I got it wrong and mixed it up with another publisher on my feed.
I even quoted his post to state I got it wrong...

fash

cryptocurrency wrote: »

And the UK has made it clear the backstop goes or no deal. The political declaration doesn’t change that as the backstop is in the WA. The UK won’t back down from the statement on the removal of the backstop but the EU will and try and make it out that the circumstances have changed.

Why do you believe the UK - almost everything its politicians say is a lie.

CelticRambler

cryptocurrency wrote: »

We all know that the economic Armageddon of no deal is utter nonsense.

There's a lot more to leaving the EU than economic Armageddon, and besides: you don't need an "Armageddon" for hundreds of thousands of people to be catastrophically affected by someone else's stupidity.

Charles Babbage

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Tusk says EU wants an alternative to the all UK backstop that is "immediately operational".

Reading between the lines the only option that is operational on day one is at the NI ports.

Back to square one and the NI only solution.

And of course if there is a deal then there is a transition period and immediately means in 2021 or 2022.

cryptocurrency

CelticRambler wrote: »

Any of them. Theresa May drew them without any thought as to the inherent contradictions that they'd create, Boris Johnson could do the intelligent thing and erase one or more so that any of the dozen-or-so options on the "Barnier staircase" would become available.

Barnier staircase?

Freedom of movement - one of the biggest reasons behind the vote. This one can’t be changed. That is the single market.

Customs union - all the talk of independent trade deals has hit fever pitch and without the future ability to do these deals then the Tories are toast.

ECJ - this will not be a goer either as this is one of the major reasons behind Brexit

So making the UK can offer money for access, if it pays then sure why not ... that is the only compromise I can think off they can give. Money and maybe Erasmus participation and European rail cards as these seem to be frightfully important to EU supergirl and Femi

VinLieger

cryptocurrency wrote: »

What red lines do you expect them to drop?

This is all theatre as the EU positions itself for the ultimate climb down.

How many times has this been claimed and continues to not happen? That bus that according to brexiteers is scheduled to run over ireland is over 2 years late

fash

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Of course it is, how can you think anything else.

We all know that the economic Armageddon of no deal is utter nonsense.

So anything other than "Armageddon" is now a victory for the UK? You don't think that the perhaps even the expectations raised by the Brexiters should be met? I'm going to have to say I'd love to be your TD - or indeed anyone providing you with a service

Forty Seven

CelticRambler wrote: »

Same as the rest of us: the control of immigration is a power reserved to the UK goverment, and has nothing to do with EU membership.

The same UK government has stated in its Brexit impact statements that leaving the EU and rejecting Freedom of Movement will reduce the number of qualified EU professional migrants and increase the number of unskilled non-European migrants.

Reference to recent migration data will show that EU professionals (teachers, doctors, nurses, lawyers, research scientists, etc), tradesmen and farm labourers have already started leaving or stopped coming to the UK.

Reference to public pronouncements by e.g. India will show that the prices for any trade deal will be lots and lots and lots of visas for non-Europeans.

Is that the kind of Brexit you want (i.e. are too fatigued to oppose)?

I'm not sure what you want me to do? I agree, it still doesn't change anything! What is it you want? Brits to come on here and cry for forgiveness? You're preaching to the converted. I fully understand our migration policy, I also understand it is broken and has led people to vote for brexit in a protest that amounts to cutting ones nose off to spite their face. I have consistently said this over and over, what exactly do you want in my reply that is going to be different?

mickoneill31

cryptocurrency wrote: »

What red lines do you expect them to drop?

This is all theatre as the EU positions itself for the ultimate climb down.

Why didn't the EU climbdown before 29th March or before the first extension? Why do you think they'll climbdown before end Oct? What's different?

cryptocurrency

fash wrote: »

So anything other than "Armageddon" is now a victory for the UK? You don't think that the perhaps even the expectations raised by the Brexiters should be met? I'm going to have to say I'd love to be your TD - or indeed anyone providing you with a service

We live in an age of very vocal and emotionally incontinent people, everything is the end of the world, everything will be a disaster... until it never happens. You have to admit that the utter failure of no deal to lead us to a mad max society they claim will do society no end of good to start to man up.

We seem utterly incapable of dealing with any change which is not good for a nations national fabric,

30 years ago the Polish, Czechs, Germans and Russians were not afraid of the unknown to bring about change. They are not as soft as we are in Western Europe because of it.

Forty Seven

mickoneill31 wrote: »

Why didn't the EU climbdown before 29th March or before the first extension? Why do you think they'll climbdown before end Oct? What's different?

No deal is firmly on the table.

cryptocurrency

mickoneill31 wrote: »

Why didn't the EU climbdown before 29th March or before the first extension? Why do you think they'll climbdown before end Oct? What's different?

May, May is what was different. They knew that she was weak and had many meetings with her. Boris has come in with a totally different approach and has put them from the front foot to the back foot. Brussels heads are still spinning.

Kermit.de.frog

Is it just me or has there been an uptick in Brexiters on here today?

First Up

Forty Seven wrote: »

I'm not sure what you want me to do? I agree, it still doesn't change anything! What is it you want? Brits to come on here and cry for forgiveness? You're preaching to the converted. I fully understand our migration policy, I also understand it is broken and has led people to vote for brexit in a protest that amounts to cutting ones nose off to spite their face. I have consistently said this over and over, what exactly do you want in my reply that is going to be different?

Your earlier posts about NGOs shipping in boatloads of Libyans and forecasts that Limerick might resemble Bradford didn't exactly indicate a full grasp of the EU's role in immigration.

mickoneill31

cryptocurrency wrote: »

May, May is what was different. They knew that she was weak and had many meetings with her. Boris has come in with a totally different approach and has put them from the front foot to the back foot. Brussels heads are still spinning.

Yes, I agree May was different. I think she had more respect in the EU than Johnson. Johnsons approach is totally different. I don't think that's a benefit for the UK though.

cryptocurrency

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Is it just me or has there been an uptick in Brexiters on here today?

Don’t you normally have different opinions here?

It’s sad that posters pointing out the obvious is now seen as an uptick in Brexiteers.

There is two sides to this debate and we Irish folk need to view it with logic more so then emotion. I am only stating what will happen and not what I want to happen.

Forty Seven

First Up wrote: »

Your earlier posts about NGOs shipping in boatloads of Libyans and forecasts that Limerick might resemble Bradford didn't exactly indicate a full grasp of the EU's role in immigration.

It is a part of immigration. A massive part onto the mainland. We are now dealing with them coming here on boats from France. The German, Swedish and French celebration of welcome has not gone down here well. If the EU had been strong on this issue then the referendum would have gone the other way.

cryptocurrency

mickoneill31 wrote: »

Yes, I agree May was different. I think she had more respect in the EU than Johnson. Johnsons approach is totally different. I don't think that's a benefit for the UK though.

It already has, almost instantly. The EU is a paper tiger and is about to lose an economy the equivalent of 19 member states and if Italy were ever to leave it will be the straw that finally breaks it. Take another 2 trillion plus economy out and with the growth rates of other developing economy’s then you have a fairly insignificant grouping.

storker

cryptocurrency wrote: »

May, May is what was different. They knew that she was weak and had many meetings with her. Boris has come in with a totally different approach and has put them from the front foot to the back foot. Brussels heads are still spinning.

Really? And the source for this? (Apart from the fevered wishful thinking of the Brexiteer press?)

cryptocurrency

storker wrote: »

Really? And the source for this? (Apart from the fevered wishful thinking of the Brexiteer press?)

Come on, you only have to look at the change in mood, rhetoric and behavior.

Emotional tweets from Tusk, Guy Verhofstadt and others plus the language they use. 70 days left so we are about to find out but I’d put my mortgage on what I’ve said.

Kermit.de.frog

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Come on, you only have to look at the change in mood, rhetoric and behavior.

Emotional tweets from Tusk, Guy Verhofstadt and others plus the language they use. 70 days left so we are about to find out but I’d put my mortgage on what I’ve said.

They have used politeness to tell Johnson to bring a unicorn forward - a challenge the PM accepted.

First Up

Forty Seven wrote: »

It is a part of immigration. A massive part onto the mainland. We are now dealing with them coming here on boats from France. The German, Swedish and French celebration of welcome has not gone down here well. If the EU had been strong on this issue then the referendum would have gone the other way.

And leaving the EU changes that how exactly?

cryptocurrency

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They have used politeness to tell Johnson to bring a unicorn forward - a challenge the PM accepted.

What unicorns , that the UK is leaving the EU and the EU needs to compromise as it’s off anyway and it will be fine when it’s off.. that unicorn 🦄

storker

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Come on, you only have to look at the change in mood, rhetoric and behavior.

Emotional tweets from Tusk, Guy Verhofstadt and others plus the language they use. 70 days left so we are about to find out but I’d put my mortgage on what I’ve said.

Language that is simply telling Boris to put up or shut up, and that they've already accept that it's going to be no deal. Anyone who sees panic in this is delusional, but then delusion is the whole basis for Brexit so that's no great surprise. If the EU has accepted that it's no deal, and Boris want's no deal, again, why doesn't the UK just leave right now and stop playing silly-buggers?

The rhetoric and mood swings are all on the UK side. "Medication time..."

Borderhopper

Right time to bail again until it calms down a bit. No problem with people arguing a different point of view that I might not agree with, but can present a cogent argument, but they’re few and far between right now here. ‘I know’ and ‘it’s obvious’ with absolutely no evidence to back up claims are really not acceptable on this forum.

Forty Seven

First Up wrote: »

And leaving the EU changes that how exactly?

Can you read? If so then perhaps peruse my previous posts at your leisure.

fash

cryptocurrency wrote: »

We live in an age of very vocal and emotionally incontinent people, everything is the end of the world, everything will be a disaster... until it never happens. You have to admit that the utter failure of no deal to lead us to a mad max society they claim will do society no end of good to start to man up.

I would suggest that anything other than the "sunlit uplands" will discredit the charlatans. I expect a no deal with result in rioting in cities within 6 months when the people realise they've been duped. I would also expect a sudden calm within the first week or two before the problems start to become obvious- with all sorts of panic collapses in the supply of certain goods with lots of unexpected consequences. As anyone competent has said however the major consequences of a no deal Brexit will happen in the years that follow- with a slowing UK economy waning in relative power.

We seem utterly incapable of dealing with any change which is not good for a nations national fabric,

So we should allow in refugees? (Just to see how you stand on the Brexiter scale and on the libertarian scale)

30 years ago the Polish, Czechs, Germans and Russians were not afraid of the unknown to bring about change. They are not as soft as we are in Western Europe because of it.

So if you think the Polish, Czechs and Germans are not afraid of change, why do you expect them to surrender to the UK by giving them a "cake & eat it" deal?

First Up

Forty Seven wrote: »

Can you read? If so then perhaps peruse my previous posts at your leisure.

Be nice and point me to where you explained how the UK would be better able to control immigration by non-EU citizens when it leaves the EU. I seem to have missed that bit.

fash

Forty Seven wrote: »

It is a part of immigration. A massive part onto the mainland. We are now dealing with them coming here on boats from France. The German, Swedish and French celebration of welcome has not gone down here well.

The French certainly did not welcome refugees- if anything they tried everything they could to ship them into the UK - something possible because of the lack of EU authority in the area.

If the EU had been strong on this issue then the referendum would have gone the other way.

again the EU has no authority in this. It can do nothing - you have as much power and competence in this area as the EU- so shouldn't we be blaming you personally for the migration crisis?