Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

lawred2

cryptocurrency wrote: »

You could see in Tusks face yesterday that he was beat. It’s all a face saving exercise now so they need to plot how they can paint this compromise on the WA without it looking like they completely folded. Boris bypassing the EU and going straight to Macron and Merkel just shown the EU up as fairly powerless compared to national leaders when it comes down to it. You can’t help but feel this is going to go down as a pivotal moment in the end of the EU as we know it.

Delusion personified

First Up

lawred2 wrote: »

Delusion personified

Monty Python's Dark Night is the perfect analogy.

bobmalooka

lawred2 wrote: »

Delusion personified

It was similar nonsense back in March

Tell me how

cryptocurrency wrote: »

You could see in Tusks face yesterday that he was beat. It’s all a face saving exercise now so they need to plot how they can paint this compromise on the WA without it looking like they completely folded. Boris bypassing the EU and going straight to Macron and Merkel just shown the EU up as fairly powerless compared to national leaders when it comes down to it. You can’t help but feel this is going to go down as a pivotal moment in the end of the EU as we know it.

I thought for a few seconds about flagging this post for absolute absurdity.

There is zero evidence to support any of the points in it.
If Tusk was beaten yesterday, he would have lamented the behaviour of Merkel/Macron in undermining the EU cohesiveness. He didn't. His term of Mr No Deal following on from the 'special place in hell' comment shows exactly what he thinks of Johnson.

Seth Brundle

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Banksy gets censored...

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1165664760744022016?s=19

Someone's probably bought it and are now getting it taken down to be reassembled elsewhere.

listermint

listermint wrote: »

Godswallop, non native workers will always be needed. We don't physically have enough workers in this country to meet demand. It's not a salary thing.

Were do you come up with this untrustworthy stuff.

You obviously believe in infinite growth as well, what do you do when the US corporations pull the plug and go elsewhere to avail of cheaper taxes.

nc6000

Can anyone please explain why Donald Tusk is at the G7 summit? Is it because it's being hosted in an EU state?

Imreoir2

Imreoir2 wrote: »

There is a big difference between peaceful migration and military conquest, I don't recall anyone in the UK being forced into a reservation by migrants. Perhaps you should deal with reality rather than fantisy.

There are many suburbs of London and other cities that the "natives" have felt unsafe and have left, even the Irish in Harrow are leaving due to the inward migration.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

There are many suburbs of London and other cities that the "natives" have felt unsafe and have left, even the Irish in Harrow are leaving due to the inward migration.

Were the Irish 'natives' in Harrow?

boggerman1

So I have switched off brexit and all associated bullsh!t for the past week or so.when has the EU caved in and Boris is walking around cock of the walk.listening to British media today it seems to be brexit is wonderful again and they won't be defaulting on the 40billion cause they don't have to pay it.

Seth Brundle

nc6000 wrote: »

Can anyone please explain why Donald Tusk is at the G7 summit? Is it because it's being hosted in an EU state?

EU is usually invited...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_of_Seven

Seth Brundle

boggerman1 wrote: »

So I have switched off brexit and all associated bullsh!t for the past week or so.when has the EU caved in and Boris is walking around cock of the walk.listening to British media today it seems to be brexit is wonderful again and they won't be defaulting on the 40billion cause they don't have to pay it.

The. EU. Have. Not. Caved!

First Up

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You obviously believe in infinite growth as well, what do you do when the US corporations pull the plug and go elsewhere to avail of cheaper taxes.

Tax is only one factor (and often not the most important). Market access, availability of skilled staff, materials, components and sub suppliers, access to R&D, political/economic stability . These all count in investment decisions and we score highly in all of them.

You may have missed it but its been a while since Ireland only offered low cost labour and low tax as reasons to be here.

J Mysterio

nc6000 wrote: »

Can anyone please explain why Donald Tusk is at the G7 summit? Is it because it's being hosted in an EU state?

Because he is the President of the EU Council.
The G7 summit is the meeting of the G7 leaders, but there are lots of other meetings besides. It only makes sense when you gather leaders of these countries to make the most of it.

Strazdas

nc6000 wrote: »

Can anyone please explain why Donald Tusk is at the G7 summit? Is it because it's being hosted in an EU state?

The EEC / EU has been invited to these summits since 1977. The invite is because the EU itself is a major economy (the Single Market) and global player with its own currency

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Were the Irish 'natives' in Harrow?

Many Irish moved to the UK in the 1950s, they moved to places like Kilburn and Harrow amongst others.

prawnsambo

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The. EU. Have. Not. Caved!

The most unusual of stopped clocks. Hasn't been right in three years.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

Many Irish moved to the UK in the 1950s, they moved to places like Kilburn and Harrow amongst others.

So they weren't natives. Do you see the point about people complaining about inward migration, a practice which their ancestors also carried out.

Imreoir2

Deleted User wrote: »

Many Irish moved to the UK in the 1950s, they moved to places like Kilburn and Harrow amongst others.

Migrated you mean. The Irish were and are immigrants to the UK.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

So they weren't natives. Do you see the point about people complaining about inward migration, a practice which their ancestors also carried out.

They complained when the Irish arrived, now they're complaining about the (others) arriving now.

Hollybeg

Let's be honest about it, Brexit is our Anglo on speed. It's that bad that in 10 years time, someone is going to create a musical about it ('Brexit the sh1tshow'... ) and we'll all laugh hard at how a whole nation managed to believe utter blatent lies.

Capt'n Midnight

Forty Seven wrote: »

After all, the EU needs our output too.

Food shortages, maybe but we will not starve. We won't even go hungry, we may have limited choice but I'm not concerned.

The NHS will carry on, maybe longer waits but if I'm honest it will still be better than public health in Ireland and you guys manage. (Not an intentional dig, it's true)

If brexit doesn't happen you are looking at a whole different ballgame. The destruction of democracy is how it will be portrayed. Politicians ignoring the people. I believe that would be more serious.

Things may be tough for a while, standard of living may drop, people expect this, they've been told repeatedly. They will be ok with it because it is what they chose. Take away that choice and you've got a whole different ball game.

Thanks to cuts and PIP assessments the NHS on the way down will meet the HSE on the way up.


After all, the EU needs our output too.
The EU needs your high tech outputs. Speciality steels (see Trump's tariffs), Airbus wings, Rolls Royce engines, McLaren cars. But they aren't high volume.

It doesn't need UK generics.


Only 12% of the cars bought in the UK are made in the UK.
Ford transits are made in Turkey these days.
80% of UK car production is exported. 60% of those go to the Common Market. This is totally dependent on the EU allowing the UK to count EU imports for Rules of Origin. The US has threatened 25% tariffs. Sales in China fell last year. Korea and Japan are now have FTA with the EU. Under rules of origin very little of UK car output qualifies for Free Trade deals, if or when the UK gets them. Trump has threatened tariffs of 25% on EU car imports. Mexico and Canada need cars with 75% local content to qualify.


The UK car industry contributes £175 billion a year to the Treasury.

That's more than the cost of the NHS and the Ministry of Defence.



Politicians ignoring the people.
politicians have ignored the non-advisory results of the General, Local and European elections that have taken place since the advisory referendum.

The wishes of two of the four kingdoms have been ignored.

The wishes of 80% of the voters for the main opposition party have been ignored.

Demographics have been ignored,
very roughly one million leavers have died and two million remainers have reached voting age since the referendum.

Please define "I believe that would be more serious." Do you mean as serious as completely ignoring most of the electorate since the 60% of MP's have safe seats ?
Or poll tax riots
Or the three thousand people who died last time we had a hard border ?

Water John

Beth Rigby, Sky, really giving Johnson a massive grilling. Brilliant, and a lesson for the other pseudo journalists how to do it.

ltd440

Water John wrote: »

Beth Rigby, Sky, really giving Johnson a massive grilling. Brilliant, and a lesson for the other pseudo journalists how to do it.

Any link?

Forty Seven

Jamiekelly wrote: »

So the user who claimed to have voted Remain in the referendum but now wants to leave because he is sick of hearing about Brexit is now trotting out Daily Mail/Telegraph Brexiteer talking points ad nauseum. Excuse my lack of understanding but can Forty Seven please tell me why he voted remain despite clearly believing in lies that were being thrown about during the campaign itself?

I voted remain because I felt it was the right thing to do. I was in a 15 year relationship with a Polish woman, I lived and worked in Poland for almost 2 years and I lived and worked in Ireland for almost 15 years. I have 3 children, 2 of which are Irish citizens and are bilingual. My eldest went to Spain on erasmus from Maynooth University. In my family home we held 3 different EU passports and spoke 2 different languages while living in a third country. I would have been mad to vote leave, my life revolved around freedom of movement. I speak in the past tense as we are now seperated and I now have a new partner in Scotland and another child on the way. Two of my children still live in Ireland, 1 lives and works in Ibiza. This is EU freedom of movement in action, I love it.

My issue with immigration from outside the EU in no way conflicts with my support of freedom of movement within the EU. EU membership is earned as are the priviliges afforded its populace. I.E. Freedom of movement. I have no issue whatsoever with EU nationals moving for work and even for pleasure. I even accept the ones who just sit on benefits and don't contribute. I accept that as part of the deal. My life has benefitted immensely from the people I have met through work and travel over the years.

The influx of economic migrants from Africa is not part of the EU project. I have no issue with genuine refugees, my heart aches for the poor Syrians fleeing bombs and I welcome them but what we see now is a free for all of young males coming looking for work. This is not being adequately policed for my liking. We are accepting people who come with no papers, claim asylum and then go home for holidays while we support them. This is not what asylum is meant to be. The Somali mothers in London sending their sons back to Somalia because it is safer than London are a case in point. If it is safer there then why are they here? I assume that we have rules for a reason, financially our union (EU) can support what we planned for and the countries we spread money around are structured in a way to bring the poorest to the same level as the richest over time. I see the constant flow of economic migrants as a threat to the economic security of this project and I believe more needs to be done to control the EU border to protect the future of the EU.

I hope this clears up your confusion. My support for the EU project is as an EU nationalist, I am not a globalist and I believe in protected borders and adhering to the project as a union of countries. The rulebook appears to me to have been torn up when we opened our arms to 'refugees' with no checks or balances in place. It has been irresponsible leadership and has now resulted in the rise of right wing parties and the polarisation of political ideologies. It is a torrid state of affairs and now I find my self living through this shambolic, daily grind of brexit with a serving of Scottish independence to come.

No political party represents me, I feel marginalised as a white male due to nonsense identity politics taking over the political party I would be traditionally supporting (Labour) and I feel disenfranchised in my own country by just about everything and everyone around me. I'm a racist to the left because of my view on immigration, I'm a traitor to the right because I'm a remainer. I am resigned to this state. I'm fatigued and will be glad when it is all over. I hope this clears things up. Sorry for the blog post but it's the only way I can explain my standpoint credibly and honestly.

Water John

It was live on Sky News.

Kermit.de.frog

Leaving the EU is not going to stop a single refugee from outside the EU going to Britain. Not one.

That's the irony. Also you'd have to ask how much assistance would France be willing to provide now to prevent them going there! I can't see them being as bothered as before.

First Up

Forty Seven wrote: »

I voted remain because I felt it was the right thing to do. I was in a 15 year relationship with a Polish woman, I lived and worked in Poland for almost 2 years and I lived and worked in Ireland for almost 15 years. I have 3 children, 2 of which are Irish citizens and are bilingual. My eldest went to Spain on erasmus from Maynooth University. In my family home we held 3 different EU passports and spoke 2 different languages while living in a third country. I would have been mad to vote leave, my life revolved around freedom of movement. I speak in the past tense as we are now seperated and I now have a new partner in Scotland and another child on the way. Two of my children still live in Ireland, 1 lives and works in Ibiza. This is EU freedom of movement in action, I love it.

My issue with immigration from outside the EU in no way conflicts with my support of freedom of movement within the EU. EU membership is earned as are the priviliges afforded its populace. I.E. Freedom of movement. I have no issue whatsoever with EU nationals moving for work and even for pleasure. I even accept the ones who just sit on benefits and don't contribute. I accept that as part of the deal. My life has benefitted immensely from the people I have met through work and travel over the years.

The influx of economic migrants from Africa is not part of the EU project. I have no issue with genuine refugees, my heart aches for the poor Syrians fleeing bombs and I welcome them but what we see now is a free for all of young males coming looking for work. This is not being adequately policed for my liking. We are accepting people who come with no papers, claim asylum and then go home for holidays while we support them. This is not what asylum is meant to be. The Somali mothers in London sending their sons back to Somalia because it is safer than London are a case in point. If it is safer there then why are they here? I assume that we have rules for a reason, financially our union (EU) can support what we planned for and the countries we spread money around are structured in a way to bring the poorest to the same level as the richest over time. I see the constant flow of economic migrants as a threat to the economic security of this project and I believe more needs to be done to control the EU border to protect the future of the EU.

I hope this clears up your confusion. My support for the EU project is as an EU nationalist, I am not a globalist and I believe in protected borders and adhering to the project as a union of countries. The rulebook appears to me to have been torn up when we opened our arms to 'refugees' with no checks or balances in place. It has been irresponsible leadership and has now resulted in the rise of right wing parties and the polarisation of political ideologies. It is a torrid state of affairs and now I find my self living through this shambolic, daily grind of brexit with a serving of Scottish independence to come.

No political party represents me, I feel marginalised as a white male due to nonsense identity politics taking over the political party I would be traditionally supporting (Labour) and I feel disenfranchised in my own country by just about everything and everyone around me. I'm a racist to the left because of my view on immigration, I'm a traitor to the right because I'm a remainer. I am resigned to this state. I'm fatigued and will be glad when it is all over. I hope this clears things up. Sorry for the blog post but it's the only way I can explain my standpoint credibly and honestly.

Yeah yeah yeah. We all have our personal perspectives but that is a half-assed way to look at it.

I really don't give a hoot what happens in/to the UK. I have family there but they are well equipped to manage. The only objective way to measure it is the macro economic consequences over time. That will take years and every macro economic indicator points steeply down. They voted for it, they got it. Welcome to the abdication of political leadership.

And it won't be all over soon. Its only getting started and the UK doesn't know whats going to hit it.

prawnsambo

Forty Seven wrote: »

No political party represents me, I feel marginalised as a white male due to nonsense identity politics taking over the political party I would be traditionally supporting (Labour) and I feel disenfranchised in my own country by just about everything and everyone around me. I'm a racist to the left because of my view on immigration, I'm a traitor to the right because I'm a remainer. I am resigned to this state. I'm fatigued and will be glad when it is all over. I hope this clears things up. Sorry for the blog post but it's the only way I can explain my standpoint credibly and honestly.

Thanks for that post. And I think you're right. UK politics is broken and brexit is just one manifestation. I suspect you will (like many) feel politically homeless until the (and I use this word somewhat sarcastically) undemocratic FPTP system is binned.

But you won't hear the end of brexit for a very long time. Whatever happens.

Tell me how

prawnsambo wrote: »

Thanks for that post. And I think you're right. UK politics is broken and brexit is just one manifestation. I suspect you will (like many) feel politically homeless until the (and I use this word somewhat sarcastically) undemocratic FPTP system is binned.

But you won't hear the end of brexit for a very long time. Whatever happens.

Yeah. It's going to define a lot of alliances and views of people will be influenced by the positions they have held over the last few months.