Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

Options
1…7879818384…317

Comments

  • Options
    #2402
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    What he’s done today is blatantly Undemocratic tough

    No it's not. He is putting the people and their wishes ahead of parliament. The people have had their say on Brexit. Parliament has shown its lack of respect for the masses by refusing to implement Brexit.


  • Options
    #2403
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,838 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Berserker wrote: »
    No it's not. He is putting the people and their wishes ahead of parliament. The people have had their say on Brexit. Parliament has shown its lack of respect for the masses by refusing to implement Brexit.

    Nobody can say that Brexit wasn't implemented...it was. Art 50 was issued and a deal was done.

    Full compliance with the wishes of the people.

    It was 'also the people' who elected the current parliament and the mathematics that won't allow ratification of that agreed deal.


  • Options
    #2404
    theguzman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    I think Boris is now focused on an election rather than Brexit with the view that Brexit is done and dusted and a hard crash out inevitable.

    The Brexit Party were the largest in the European elections and he would of course be hoping to capture that vote if he delivers the hard Brexit.

    Lets imagine that they crash out on Oct 31st and a few weeks later there is an election and Corbyn gets into No. 10 could we see him immediately start accession talks to rejoin the EU?


  • Options
    #2405
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    Please show where anyone, including Boris, in the debate before the democratic vote, promised what is now going to be delivered (including suspending Parliament and trying to eliminate the sovereignty of Parliament)?

    They promised Brexit, i.e. the UK is going to leave the EU and that is whats going to happen. The flavour of Brexit may not be to your liking or the EUs liking but that is not a problem for the people of the UK. Once the UK leaves, Brexit has been delivered. Job done.


  • Options
    #2406
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/hbaldwin/status/1166672281608818689


    Very interesting nugget here .Is Johnson's plan to basically return May's deal with the no deal cliff edge only days away?


    But he would lose the ERG and a lot of support in the Conservative Party. Also, the Brexit Party will absolutely slaughter him in an election as Johnson himself has said the WA is just leaving the UK at the mercy of the EU and its laws.

    I found this interesting,

    https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1166638896794492933?s=20

    The gauntlet has been thrown down in Scotland as well it seems. A lot of people will be very uncomfortable with what Johnson is preparing as it is putting them in tough positions. One of those is Ruth Davidson who will now either have to keep quiet and own this mess, or instruct Scottish Conservatives to support the rebels, or go against the wishes of the majority of Scottish voters.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2407
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Nobody can say that Brexit wasn't implemented...it was. Art 50 was issued and a deal was done.

    Full compliance with the wishes of the people.

    The deal is not acceptable, as we all know. The EU has closed the door on renegotiating that deal, or so it appears, so no deal it is.


  • Options
    #2408
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Berserker wrote: »
    They promised Brexit, i.e. the UK is going to leave the EU and that is whats going to happen. The flavour of Brexit may not be to your liking or the EUs liking but that is not a problem for the people of the UK. Once the UK leaves, Brexit has been delivered. Job done.


    If they sign up to the WA that is also Brexit. You may not like the deal but that is not really a problem for the people of the EU, the mandate on Brexit will have been delivered and the UK will be out of the EU.


  • Options
    #2409
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,066 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    Another genius move by the lib democrats.

    Ah now, while the Lib Dems had 4-year fixed-terms as part of their manifesto, this was Dave at his finest trying to ensure that the Lib Dems were locked in and couldn't get out of the coalition should something unpalatable, say tuition fees, came up! The apparent instability of the coalition made this so!

    It needs to go anyway. Horrible legislation.


  • Options
    #2410
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,189 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Enrico Palazzo wrote: »
    Ermm, what transition period? You are just making things up. It explicitly says "If we leave, we'll need a new trade deal with UE and the govt thinks it will take a long time to agree on one, leading to years of uncertainty". If Cameron wanted a remain vote, it made all sense to present the worst case scenario for Brexit and that's literally how that leaflet reads.

    You are ignoring my post here


  • Options
    #2411
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/hbaldwin/status/1166672281608818689


    Very interesting nugget here .Is Johnson's plan to basically return May's deal with the no deal cliff edge only days away?

    That was floated as a method for May to get a chance to vote on the WA for the 4th or 5th or 6th time just a few months ago. Bercow said no.

    It's not some fantastically cunning plan that nobody can see through.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2412
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,838 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Berserker wrote: »
    The deal is not acceptable, as we all know....
    ...to a paliament ELECTED by the people.
    The EU has closed the door on renegotiating that deal, or so it appears, so no deal it is.

    We negotiated the deal with the UK, there were compromises made, the deal was agreed and we are awaiting the UK's answer.


  • Options
    #2413
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,626 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Sky News' Lewis Goodall suspects Johnson might be trying too bounce Parliament into a panicked support of a WA


  • Options
    #2414
    bobmalooka
    Registered Users Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭bobmalooka


    Berserker wrote: »
    No they don't. The democratic wish of the British people takes precedence over everything else anyway. The people voted for Brexit and Boris is going to deliver it, as promised.



    Not a chance in hell. That deal is dead and buried, thankfully.



    You sure about that? Boris is going to deliver Brexit, at the end of October, a few months after taking office. People have tried and failed to do that for years. Really happy with the job he has done so far.

    Your second and third paragraph is essentially an argument against yourself.

    You state the deal is dead, then object to the suggestion that he’s not clever enough to use the scenario to force through the same deal.


  • Options
    #2415
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    No Deal is the preferred option of 26% of British people.
    Couldn't find the old poll that showed a similar number of Leavers thought that No Deal meant that things stayed the way they are.

    Barely one in five thinks that the rest of the public know what will happen with No Deal. There's no way in hell anyone can claim that's a democratic mandate for No Deal.

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/public-see-johnson-most-capable-pm-vs-corbyn-ipsos-mori-political-monitor-july-2019
    Understanding a no-deal Brexit

    In the event of a no-deal Brexit, 40% of the public think that they understand what will happen ‘very well’ or ‘fairly well’ compared to 54% that say ‘not well’ or ‘not well at all’.

    79% of the public say that ‘the British public as a whole’ does not understand what will happen in the event of a no-deal Brexit, whilst clear majorities think the same about the UK government (57%) and ‘UK politicians as a whole’ (61%).


  • Options
    #2416
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,854 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    Berserker wrote: »
    The deal is not acceptable, as we all know. The EU has closed the door on renegotiating that deal, or so it appears, so no deal it is.

    By what measurement have you decided the deal is not acceptable? The fact parliament voted it down? The same parliament you're now saying needs to be neutered and ignored? Don't say "everyone I know hates it" because that's not how democracy works. The public never voted against the deal, so by brexiter logic it hasn't been rejected.

    The mental gymnastics of Brexiters to justify their zealotry are just astonishing.


  • Options
    #2417
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    Berserker wrote: »
    They promised Brexit
    Not what I asked you, but not surprised you couldn't answer the question.
    Berserker wrote: »
    the UK is going to leave the EU and that is whats going to happen.
    Good. I thought the extension was a waste of time, and so it has proven to be with the ineptness on the British side.
    Berserker wrote: »
    The flavour of Brexit may not be to your liking or the EUs liking but that is not a problem for the people of the UK.
    A hard Brexit is to nobodies liking, cause everyone loses out. But to be clear, the UK is the one losing most of all.
    Berserker wrote: »
    Once the UK leaves, Brexit has been delivered. Job done.
    No. Job only just starting when Britain leaves. The EU has set it's position right from the start, and has prepared for a hard Brexit for quite some time. The guff from Britain's side (deluded that the EU would back down) hasn't worked and now we see that the rhetoric about "control" fall apart as one man seeks to bypass Parliament. Enjoy your new (un-elected by the people) dictator.


  • Options
    #2418
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,779 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Sky News' Lewis Goodall suspects Johnson might be trying too bounce Parliament into a panicked support of a WA

    I can't discount the possibility, but I would just say that pulling any sort of move on the basis of thinking you know how 600+ humans might react to it is extraordinarily risky and holds much potential to blow up in one's face.


  • Options
    #2419
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,189 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Enzokk wrote: »

    The gauntlet has been thrown down in Scotland as well it seems. A lot of people will be very uncomfortable with what Johnson is preparing as it is putting them in tough positions. One of those is Ruth Davidson who will now either have to keep quiet and own this mess, or instruct Scottish Conservatives to support the rebels, or go against the wishes of the majority of Scottish voters.

    There is a by-election tomorrow in Shetland for a seat in the Scottish Parliament, have a look at what Davidson is campaigning on

    https://twitter.com/Zarkwan/status/1166334292965896193


  • Options
    #2420
    bobmalooka
    Registered Users Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭bobmalooka


    Berserker wrote: »
    They promised Brexit, i.e. the UK is going to leave the EU and that is whats going to happen. The flavour of Brexit may not be to your liking or the EUs liking but that is not a problem for the people of the UK. Once the UK leaves, Brexit has been delivered. Job done.

    Hilarious, it most certainly is a problem for the people of the UK. Leaving is only the start of the process, the future relationship with EU will tie up UK politics for years


  • Options
    #2421
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,725 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    Absolutely. The will of the people needs to be enacted. This farce can't go on and on.
    Stop with the nonsense please!
    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    I think they’re going to be slaughtered in the next election up there. All the signs point to that happening. Their own base is livid with them.
    I'm not so sure.
    In the recent LEs 24% of NI voters gave them their first preference votes despite knowing that they were pushing NI towards the cliff. I tihknk they will still take a good number of seats in a general election simply down to the bigots who would rather side with their hearts over their heads.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2422
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Cummings working hard today. Numerous ‘sources’ from number ten all saying things. None of these are what’s actually going to happen

    No 10 source tells @lbc if plans to prorogue parliament fail and if the Govt loses a no confidence vote, it will dissolve parliament and call a vote *after* October 31st.

    You don’t need guns and tanks to mount a coup. This is a coup by hardline Brexiters.


  • Options
    #2423
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Sky News' Lewis Goodall suspects Johnson might be trying too bounce Parliament into a panicked support of a WA


    How can Johnson support the WA when he himself has castigated it and calling it undemocratic? Or is the thinking he will accidentally bring it back and have people vote on it, then support it or not?

    I don't follow this thinking. Either he will own it and will lose Tory support to the Brexit Party who will hammer him on it in a new election (majority of only 1, remember), or he will distance himself from it in which case it has 0% chance of going through.


  • Options
    #2424
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,924 ✭✭✭trellheim


    it will dissolve parliament and call a vote *after* October 31st.
    Sorry calling this out every time I see it, they CAN NOT do that , Under FTPA the dissolution option has been removed


  • Options
    #2425
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,838 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Enzokk wrote: »
    How can Johnson support the WA when he himself has castigated it and calling it undemocratic? Or is the thinking he will accidentally bring it back and have people vote on it, then support it or not?

    I don't follow this thinking. Either he will own it and will lose Tory support to the Brexit Party who will hammer him on it in a new election (majority of only 1, remember), or he will distance himself from it in which case it has 0% chance of going through.

    He has voted for it already. No bother to the Boris to volte face.


  • Options
    #2426
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    robinph wrote: »
    That was floated as a method for May to get a chance to vote on the WA for the 4th or 5th or 6th time just a few months ago. Bercow said no.

    It's not some fantastically cunning plan that nobody can see through.

    I don't know how Bercow could say no . It's a new parliament. What precedent could he use ?


  • Options
    #2427
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    Cummings working hard today. Numerous ‘sources’ from number ten all saying things. None of these are what’s actually going to happen

    No 10 source tells @lbc if plans to prorogue parliament fail and if the Govt loses a no confidence vote, it will dissolve parliament and call a vote *after* October 31st.

    You don’t need guns and tanks to mount a coup. This is a coup by hardline Brexiters.


    Fixed parliament act, the government cannot call an election unless they lose a VONC or have 2/3 support for a new election.


  • Options
    #2428
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,189 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Enzokk wrote: »
    How can Johnson support the WA when he himself has castigated it and calling it undemocratic?


    In the same way he voted for it in parliament and then castigated it


  • Options
    #2429
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,626 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Enzokk wrote: »
    How can Johnson support the WA when he himself has castigated it and calling it undemocratic? Or is the thinking he will accidentally bring it back and have people vote on it, then support it or not?

    I don't follow this thinking. Either he will own it and will lose Tory support to the Brexit Party who will hammer him on it in a new election (majority of only 1, remember), or he will distance himself from it in which case it has 0% chance of going through.

    He and Cummings clearly have a very specific plan with a desired outcome. The question is whether it is actually No Deal or a WA.....it's anyone's guess


  • Options
    #2430
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    trellheim wrote: »
    Sorry calling this out every time I see it, they CAN NOT do that , Under FTPA the dissolution option has been removed

    There’s the source

    https://twitter.com/colettebrowne/status/1166689431983730688?s=21


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2431
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    He has voted for it already. No bother to the Boris to volte face.


    I know, but he won the Tory leadership election by promising to scrap the WA. He cannot, less than 3 months later support it. Even for someone who is known to have various positions, this would be something.

    The ERG would revolt and he will not have Labour support, so how many MPs will he have for any other vote? Maybe 150?


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement