Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

brickster69

VinLieger wrote: »

Well this completely disingenuous because the election was held a year after the referendum. Do you have the numbers for how many MP's were elected who were remain vs leave?

That is the based on the referendum result not the election. Cheers.

VinLieger

brickster69 wrote: »

That is the based on the referendum result not the election. Cheers.

LOL so your not even taking into account the most recent general election, ****ing hilarious how far you will go to deny reality

Calina

brickster69 wrote: »

I know it is normal for referendum results that go against the EU to be re-run. But in the Uk it is normal to respect that result.

Actually, it isn't. It is not normal to have referendums in the UK and results have been ignored before for Scotland.

BonnieSituation

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

We need a half way house. Who wants 30 DUP members in the Dail?

I'd vote for unification without doubt. But it needs to still have some distance. Stormant up and running, their own police force, their own independent parades commission, and other issues that have to be settled right there.

London also has to cover most of the cost as they have been doing up to now. Germany truly understands the complexity of reuniting a country, so they will support us.

Eh? And what do Nationalists do in this Statelet of yours? I think it's best you step away from this one.

Bit cynical

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

No, with the Don't Knows removed it's:

Ref and Remain: 41%
No Deal: 31%
Deal with SM and CU: 20%
WA: 8%

So 69% want to remain or a deal. This is the poll.

I had 41.86 percent for the ref and remain option which I rounded up to 42%.

Of course it depends on how you group the results but the only remain option is at 41 percent. The rest are various forms of Leave and by your figures they total 59%. But if you round to the nearest percentage as I did you get 42 and 68.

I think the fairest interpretation is that there is still an overall majority for the UK to leave the EU. Among those wishing to leave, the majority favour a clean break exit.

But like I said, a poll can only go so far. It doesn't tell you the priorities people have. Of the 42% looking for a referendum and remain, some of these may be happy enough with an SM + CU deal if that is all that is available. But I think it may be a mistake to assume that these same people would be happy with the WA, so we can't lump them all together unless we have some evidence that these options are closely correlated.

kowloon

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's strange. Where are all the student protests?

They don't start back until September, nobody around to organise.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Look to be finally approaching he endgame now and my money is on No Deal at this stage as Johnson has wrestled back control of the process. I can't see it extending beyond 31st October and both sides are too far apart to come up with a deal.

I don't see the UK pulling the trigger. Something will happen for them to change how it goes.

If they had a secret plan all along that would be good for them. But they have admitted they don't know how it will go. Not having sufficient food or medicine is totally unacceptable to a Western country. I don't think they'll do it.

Leroy42

brickster69 wrote: »

I know it is normal for referendum results that go against the EU to be re-run. But in the Uk it is normal to respect that result.

The WA met the criteria in the ref,namely leave.

So where are all the brexiteers complaining that the ERG and others voted down the WA?

nobody, certianly not the EU, are looking to overturn the ref result. it will stand until such time as a people vote to reverse it. but in a strange idea of democracy, brexiteers are totally against giving people a vote.

and now they have gone one step further in trying to limit the sovereign parliament,

take back control by taking away your voice. fine you happen to agree with their plans, but would you as happy if Corbyn did the same if PM to nationalise the trains, are introduce a wealth tax, allow a 2nd ref in scotland or whatever.

basically you are giving your acceptance to any leader to do whatever they want. why stop at this. why not simply avoid elections altogether/

VinLieger

Would love to be a fly on the wall of the next audience Johnson has with the Queen, id say she is apoplectic

brickster69

VinLieger wrote: »

LOL so your not even taking into account the most recent general election, ****ing hilarious how far you will go to deny reality

What has voting for a candidate to represent a town as an MP got to do with how people of that town voted to leave the EU or not ?

Professor Moriarty

Bit cynical wrote: »

I had 41.86 percent for the ref and remain option which I rounded up to 42%.

Of course it depends on how you group the results but the only remain option is at 41 percent. The rest are various forms of Leave and by your figures they total 59%. But if you round to the nearest percentage as I did you get 42 and 68.

I think the fairest interpretation is that there is still an overall majority for majority for the UK to leave the EU. Among those wishing to leave, the majority favour a clean break exit.

But like I said, a poll can only go so far. It doesn't tell you the priorities people have. Of the 42% looking for a referendum and remain, some of these may be happy enough with an SM + CU deal if that is all that is available. But I think it may be a mistake to assume that these same people would be happy with the WA, so we can't lump them all together unless we have some evidence that these options are closely correlated.

Not to be pedantic but by my figures, with Don't Knows removed, it is actually 69% Remain/Deal versus 31% No Deal. Maybe you're not removing the Don't Knows or distributing them incorrectly? In my link, there's an option to remove Don't Knows. Here is the poll with them removed.

VinLieger

brickster69 wrote: »

What has voting for a candidate to represent a town as an MP got to do with how people of that town voted to leave the EU or not ?

Yeah i wont be replying to your trash anymore, id suggest everyone else do the same and stop denying this poster the attention they obviously crave

brickster69

VinLieger wrote: »

Yeah i wont be replying to your trash anymore, id suggest everyone else do the same and stop denying this poster the attention they obviously crave

Answer the question then ?

Leroy42

VinLieger wrote: »

Would love to be a fly on the wall of the next audience Johnson has with the Queen, id say she is apoplectic

Why? No skin off her nose. She will be perfectly fine.

She is an expert at ensuring that nothing gets in the way of her family retaining it priveledged position.

it won't cause her a second thought.

Varta

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's strange. Where are all the student protests?

They are afraid to make noise in case it triggers someone somewhere. Unfortunately, opposition to Trump, Johnson, Bolsonaro, Orban, etc has been destroyed by sectional interests and nonsensical agendas. The left and centre left has been torn asunder by the deluded and deranged who, unfortunately, see the left as their rightful home. Until the opposition - worldwide - ditches all that nonsense and starts to unite and focus on the issues that really matter (and, by god, we're not short of those) then we are doomed to be f***ked over by the likes of Trump et all. I suppose that's a long winded way of saying "Don't expect a revolution any time soon".

VinLieger

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why? No skin off her nose. She will be perfectly fine.

She is an expert at ensuring that nothing gets in the way of her family retaining it priveledged position.

it won't cause her a second thought.

She has made it pretty clear she didnt want to be dragged in, she cares about how the Monarchy is viewed as an institution and anything that damages that like being seen to take a side on Brexit, even though she really had no choice, will not make her happy.

prawnsambo

brickster69 wrote: »

Not really.

247 constituencies of Conservative MPs voted Leave
148 constituencies of Labour MPs voted Leave

Including all parties, that’s a total of 415 seats where the people told Parliament to leave the EU

The people voted in the 'idiots'. The people are to blame for the fact that there are 'idiots' in the house. Who else can you blame for this?

johnnyskeleton

brickster69 wrote: »

Answer the question then ?

Mod note:

You are entitled to ask questions, but youre not entitled to demand an action. Considering houre just back from a ban, consider this a final warning

johnnyskeleton

VinLieger wrote: »

Yeah i wont be replying to your trash anymore, id suggest everyone else do the same and stop denying this poster the attention they obviously crave

Mod note:

Likewise, you are entitled to not answer a question, but youre not entitled to call on others to ignore another poster.

Kermit.de.frog

Interview with Simon Coveney on Bloomberg

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2019-08-28/ireland-s-coveney-brexit-backstop-won-t-be-traded-for-vague-promises-video?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Looks like he's had a clash with Steve Barclay over the backstop.

Forty Seven

VinLieger wrote: »

Yeah i wont be replying to your trash anymore, id suggest everyone else do the same and stop denying this poster the attention they obviously crave

He has a point. A referendum is entirely based around the fact that the issue is bigger than your local representative. You don't vote in a general election on one issue, there is a hell of a lot more at stake, especially locally.



It's a similar argument to the 'unelected' PM. It is just not the way that things are done.

brickster69

prawnsambo wrote: »

The people voted in the 'idiots'. The people are to blame for the fact that there are 'idiots' in the house. Who else can you blame for this?

Not really. What have you to go on when all parties say they will respect and implement the vote that was decided on. Not the voters fault really is it ?

prawnsambo

In any event, it's probably boosted Johnson's chances in a GE. A caller to LBC's opening remarks were "God bless Boris Johnson and God bless the Queen". Twitter is full of similar sentiments. And it's quite hilarious. Johnson wants an election and because the opposition seem to be dragging their feet, has decided to throw another dead cat on the dining table to provoke them. I wonder will it work?

VinLieger

Forty Seven wrote: »

He has a point. A referendum is entirely based around the fact that the issue is bigger than your local representative. You don't vote in a general election on one issue, there is a hell of a lot more at stake, especially locally.



It's a similar argument to the 'unelected' PM. It is just not the way that things are done.

Fair enough but then you also inversely cannot argue that simply because an elected MP who is pro-remain but is from a leave constituency should also then be pro-leave since many who voted for them after the referendum may have voted for them for other reasons than brexit and/or because they were pro-remain.

BonnieSituation

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Interview with Simon Coveney on Bloomberg

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2019-08-28/ireland-s-coveney-brexit-backstop-won-t-be-traded-for-vague-promises-video?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Looks like he's had a clash with Steve Barclay over the backstop.

The Graun reported on it at 16:01

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/aug/28/spending-review-set-for-next-week-fuels-election-speculation-live

Looks like Barclay went for him a nd didn't ellicit the response he wanted.

Yet again Coveney nails it.


Full report on it:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/28/irish-deputy-pm-clashes-with-stephen-barclay-over-backstop

prawnsambo

brickster69 wrote: »

Not really. What have you to go on when all parties say they will respect and implement the vote that was decided on. Not the voters fault really is it ?

Again. They voted for them. Who else has responsibility? They voted for Johnson who's lied repeatedly all his career. And they (and apparently you) think he's trustworthy. Which is worse? The 'idiots' in parliament or the 'idiots' who voted them in?

Stop moaning ffs

Seems to be loads an loads of Tories furious with Johnson. Will they cross the floor and vote against him?

trellheim

I'd just like to thank HMG for reminding me "it can't get any worse than this" is almost never the right thing to say.

murphaph

I really hope Johnson gets his strong majority and can dump the DUP and go for a WTO Brexit for Britain with NI getting special status. Time for the UK to get out of the EU at least for a few years. They are beyond help right now.

Forty Seven

prawnsambo wrote: »

In any event, it's probably boosted Johnson's chances in a GE. A caller to LBC's opening remarks were "God bless Boris Johnson and God bless the Queen". Twitter is full of similar sentiments. And it's quite hilarious. Johnson wants an election and because the opposition seem to be dragging their feet, has decided to throw another dead cat on the dining table to provoke them. I wonder will it work?

To be fair, Corbyn has been appalling throughout. Rees Mogg said it all today when asked about a VOC, 'Corbyn said he wasn't having one yesterday, has he changed his mind again?'