Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

Podge_irl

Berserker wrote: »

Boris has been one of the most prominent Brexiters since the result was announced. TM was hesitant about Brexit all along. She never even brought up the option of a no deal Brexit in Brussels. Barnier confirmed this a few months ago.

Because it is an absolutely stupid idea that was dismissed left, right and centre during the campaign. May's idea of Brexit was significantly "harder" then many of the ones put forward by the Leave campaign. The floated ideas such as EFTA or the EEA were immediately quashed by her red lines and only a pretty hard brexit was plausible.

This will go down as an utterly depraved re-writing of history by various components of the Leave campaign so that we end up as No Deal being the only true and virtuous Brexit when it was derided as irresponsible to even bring up the idea that something so disastrous would be the end outcome during the referendum.

Capt'n Midnight

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

There it is

twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1166711465040142336?s=21

What's the point of having 700 privy councillors when THREE of them can just show up and tell the queen what to do.

Checks and balances. UK Democracy in action.



https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0828/1071336-brexit/

Commons Leader Jacob Rees-Mogg, Lords Leader Baroness Evans and Chief Whip Mark Spencer were sent to Balmoral for a Privy Council meeting with Queen Elizabeth to approve the timetable.

...
All cabinet members are appointed to the Privy Council, as are some senior members of the Royal Family, senior judges, two archbishops, the speaker of the House of Commons, leaders of opposition parties, and leading Commonwealth spokesmen and judges.

The council now numbers around 700 members. The quorum needed to hold a meeting of the Privy Council is three privy counsellors.

Berserker

Enter name here wrote: »

The army should be immediately deployed to deal with the anti democratic riff raff. All protesters should be arrested and taken to the nearest facility for a shower and a re education programme on democracy.

No matter what side of the debate you sit on, we are witnessing a remarkable period in history, one to tell the grandkids about. My Dad mentioned that to me earlier and he's right.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Their current position seems to be getting closer and closer to a UI.

The RoI is heading for one hell of a recession when Brexit comes to pass. It'll be negative equity and emigration all round. SF, FF, FG etc are in no position to even begin that campaign themselves. You'll also have republican terrorism in play at that point, something that'll turn a huge number of people off a UI. A whole generation of young people and SF voters are going to get one hell of a education post Brexit.

Stop moaning ffs

I’m no legal expert but it looks like Johnson and Cummings covered all the legal bases in the United but didn’t fully think this through legally in European terms. A wordy read but maybe some here can break it down for us

https://twitter.com/saffiya_khan1/status/1166792744427294721?s=21

BarryD2

theguzman wrote: »

I have always supported Brexit solely because I think all this will be the catalyst which will deliver a United Ireland along with the Protestant deomgraph decline and changing demographics in the North; add to that when the lineal Protestant planters lose their Single Farm Payment Cheques and livelihoods they may just hold their noses and accept a United Ireland.

Aren't you forgetting a few things? You're happy to beggar the ordinary citizen of this Republic for your fancy ideas of forcing a UI?? Remember we have a vote on this whole matter and if this goes pear shaped for Sean or Sinead citizen down south, then there will be a right backlash. Who down here would NI in these circumstances except a few diehards.

devnull

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I’m no legal expert but it looks like Johnson and Cummings covered all the legal bases in the United but didn’t fully think this through legally in European terms. A wordy read but maybe some here can break it down for us

https://twitter.com/saffiya_khan1/status/1166792744427294721?s=21

Don't see what the point is myself - by the time that's done and dusted October 31st will already be gone so those fighting to stop No Deal shouldn't waste their time on something like that.

ancapailldorcha

Posts deleted and ban issued. Please use the report function and do not personalise the debate.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

devnull wrote: »

Are you really surprised?

Many families in the UK have people who are not talking to each other and are at loggerheads every day about Brexit. I know many people who dare not speak about it as it always provokes a huge row and things getting out of control. There's even people who avoid visiting their relatives when the news is on to try and avoid yet another argument about Brexit where they are on polar opposite sides.

This is the country that the Tories have created, they have divided a nation so far that it has become a completely toxic environment which has created massive divisions and severely fractured society as a whole. It has poisoned everyday life in the UK and whatever about immigration resulting in Broken Britain as the Tories used to say this whole charade has damaged society far more.

I do not condone any kind of scuffles or violence and never will, but at the end of the day this is the country that has been created by politicians rhetoric, actions and the division they've sown over the past few years. The politicians have not just stood idly by whilst the country becomes like this, they've heavily encouraged it.

There is a little bit of a rise in anti Irish sentiment sadly. Think it's at its highest since the Manchester bombing a long time ago. We have to build bridges.

They keep talking about there will be no border but have literally come up with no solution.

There should be a public vote on No Deal or Deal. That would be proper democracy in my view. The British public didn't decide this would be it.

And I do think immigration pushed the vote over 50%. Unfortunately that accounted for the difference in winning or losing. It might not be large. But 4% of people can swing it.

joe40

Berserker wrote: »

No matter what side of the debate you sit on, we are witnessing a remarkable period in history, one to tell the grandkids about. My Dad mentioned that to me earlier and he's right.



The RoI is heading for one hell of a recession when Brexit comes to pass. It'll be negative equity and emigration all round. SF, FF, FG etc are in no position to even begin that campaign themselves. You'll also have republican terrorism in play at that point, something that'll turn a huge number of people off a UI. A whole generation of young people and SF voters are going to get one hell of a education post Brexit.

While you had a prosperous and stable Northern Ireland there was zero chance of a united ireland. The status quo with gfa was acceptable.
Ireland may suffer in the event of a no deal but the north will be decimated.
We are certainly entering turbulent times unless the current British government cop themselves on and start to see sense. They are not representing the country anymore.
A government afraid of parliament is a slippery slope to totalitarianism.

Professor Moriarty

devnull wrote: »

Don't see what the point is myself - by the time that's done and dusted October 31st will already be gone so those fighting to stop No Deal shouldn't waste their time on something like that.

It didn't put Orban off much. As you say, apart from being symbolic, it's pointless in Britain's case.

careless sherpa

Berserker wrote: »

No matter what side of the debate you sit on, we are witnessing a remarkable period in history, one to tell the grandkids about. My Dad mentioned that to me earlier and he's right.



The RoI is heading for one hell of a recession when Brexit comes to pass. It'll be negative equity and emigration all round. SF, FF, FG etc are in no position to even begin that campaign themselves. You'll also have republican terrorism in play at that point, something that'll turn a huge number of people off a UI. A whole generation of young people and SF voters are going to get one hell of a education post Brexit.

It is beginning to look like the British have missed the early 1970s so much that they are doing their utmost to recreate that period. Civil strife in the north, poor economic growth, IMF to the rescue

Stop moaning ffs

Berserker wrote: »

No matter what side of the debate you sit on, we are witnessing a remarkable period in history, one to tell the grandkids about. My Dad mentioned that to me earlier and he's right.



The RoI is heading for one hell of a recession when Brexit comes to pass. It'll be negative equity and emigration all round. SF, FF, FG etc are in no position to even begin that campaign themselves. You'll also have republican terrorism in play at that point, something that'll turn a huge number of people off a UI. A whole generation of young people and SF voters are going to get one hell of a education post Brexit.

Why would republican terrorism start in the run up to a ref on a United ireland? That’s their goal in sight.
You really think they’d start bombing when their end goal is on the way?

You have a poor grasp on the dynamics here in Ireland it seems.

is_that_so

Here's an interesting thought about the speaker and what he might do.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-parliament-supended-no-deal-queens-speech-john-bercow-a9082651.html

VinLieger

VinLieger wrote: »

Well lets ask a certain journalist called Boris Johnson all the way back in 2005 what he thought about Gordon Brown doing the exact same thing

So any transition of PM outside of general election is considered an un-elected PM? Genuine question, I still don't fully get this

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

careless sherpa wrote: »

It is beginning to look like the British have missed the early 1970s so much that they are doing their utmost to recreate that period. Civil strife in the north, poor economic growth, IMF to the rescue

A 3 day work week sounds sweet enough though.

prawnsambo

Berserker wrote: »

The RoI is heading for one hell of a recession when Brexit comes to pass. It'll be negative equity and emigration all round. SF, FF, FG etc are in no position to even begin that campaign themselves. You'll also have republican terrorism in play at that point, something that'll turn a huge number of people off a UI. A whole generation of young people and SF voters are going to get one hell of a education post Brexit.

And that's why brexit is such a good idea. The UK will be a pariah state for inflicting this on their own people north of the border. The rest of it we can live with, The worst projections hit GDP growth, which is not the same as recession. But your concern is noted.

FrancieBrady

Berserker wrote: »

The RoI is heading for one hell of a recession when Brexit comes to pass. It'll be negative equity and emigration all round.

Can you support this theory with data?

SF, FF, FG etc are in no position to even begin that campaign themselves. You'll also have republican terrorism in play at that point, something that'll turn a huge number of people off a UI. A whole generation of young people and SF voters are going to get one hell of a education post Brexit.

A Ui solves many problems, so there are incentives to making it happen:

It solves the business and farming issues for northern Ireland.
It solves the EU's Border issue.
It solves the UK's Brexit issue
It solves Ireland's border issue and contagion from a northern Ireland going down the tubes.

It doesn't solve the DUP's dilemma in getting out of another cul-de-sac though.

Professor Moriarty

is_that_so wrote: »

Here's an interesting thought about the speaker and what he might do.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-parliament-supended-no-deal-queens-speech-john-bercow-a9082651.html

Brief but interesting insight into the man and his intentions. Good point about him having nothing to lose.

is_that_so

Berserker wrote: »

No matter what side of the debate you sit on, we are witnessing a remarkable period in history, one to tell the grandkids about. My Dad mentioned that to me earlier and he's right.



The RoI is heading for one hell of a recession when Brexit comes to pass. It'll be negative equity and emigration all round. SF, FF, FG etc are in no position to even begin that campaign themselves. You'll also have republican terrorism in play at that point, something that'll turn a huge number of people off a UI. A whole generation of young people and SF voters are going to get one hell of a education post Brexit.

Remarkably stupid is how I would describe it but the bed has been made!

Any projections in the runup to this suggest you are wrong. These numbers also suggest the UK will take a big hit. We'll take a hit, adjust and move on. I've no idea how you came up with the rest of this terrorist related stuff.

LeinsterDub

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So any transition of PM outside of general election is considered an un-elected PM? Genuine question, I still don't fully get this

The opposition in the UK always claim as much. Brown, May and Johnson all had the same thing thrown at them.

is_that_so

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Brief but interesting insight into the man and his intentions. Good point about him having nothing to lose.

It is an end of days of a sort. If not for the very serious nature of it, we'd be hailing the absolutely top class entertainment of it all.

dublinman1990

Well this bit of news is interesting and very timely.

160 MPs have signed up to a pledge to take part in an unofficial alternative parliament which is to be held in a building outside the confines of the HoC. This will appear to take place when the party conference season is taking place in the UK. Over 40 MPs are needed to take part in an unofficial parliament in the UK to allow it become a parliament. BJ does need to attend this parliament because there will no PMQs taking place in it while it is in session.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/27/mps-pledge-form-alternative-parliament-prorogation-church-house-declaration-brexit

I read this information from someone online in the UK. Here is what was said.

However, the Conference break is done at the discretion of the HoC. They can, technically, vote to not suspend parliament, and simply move parliament to another building nearby that weeks conference if Bercow brings the mace with him.

That latter bit is important. Even if the Queen does prorogue, parliament can still sit, just not in the HoC. It will be unofficial, and the government can ignore it if they wish, but Bercow can move the mace to another building, and as long as 40 MPs turn up, it is technically a parliament.

Professor Moriarty

is_that_so wrote: »

It is an end of days of a sort. If not for the very serious nature of it, we'd be hailing the absolutely top class entertainment of it all.

Make a great soap. Looking forward to episode 6745. I believe that Corbyn sets up an alternative parliament in Stamford Bridge. It actually could happen.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Deleted User wrote: »

So any transition of PM outside of general election is considered an un-elected PM? Genuine question, I still don't fully get this

This is being used in the context of what has been said about EU officials and the words Boris himself has used to describe others in similar circumstances. i.e. if you want to say that EU/Brown are/were unelected, you must say that Boris was unelected.

prawnsambo

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Make a great soap. Looking forward to episode 6745. I believe that Corbyn sets up an alternative parliament in Stamford Bridge. It actually could happen.

It's great drama alright. Here's a question though: i take it this does nothing to stop a VONC being held on Tuesday next, or any day up to the conference/prorogation break?

Imreoir2

brickster69 wrote: »

Not really. What have you to go on when all parties say they will respect and implement the vote that was decided on. Not the voters fault really is it ?

How many parties said they would carry out a no-deal Brexit? Fairly sure a large number of MPs were ellected on a manifesto pledge to oppose a no-deal Brexit.

declanflynn

Berserker wrote: »

Enter name here wrote: »

The army should be immediately deployed to deal with the anti democratic riff raff. All protesters should be arrested and taken to the nearest facility for a shower and a re education programme on democracy.

No matter what side of the debate you sit on, we are witnessing a remarkable period in history, one to tell the grandkids about. My Dad mentioned that to me earlier and he's right.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Their current position seems to be getting closer and closer to a UI.

The RoI is heading for one hell of a recession when Brexit comes to pass. It'll be negative equity and emigration all round. SF, FF, FG etc are in no position to even begin that campaign themselves. You'll also have republican terrorism in play at that point, something that'll turn a huge number of people off a UI. A whole generation of young people and SF voters are going to get one hell of a education post Brexit.

No it isn't heading for a recession, it's the fastest growing economy in Europe, a hard Brexit will slow growth for 3 months at most, britian is heading for a depression because of depaffel and co.
Bring it on

Stop moaning ffs

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Why would republican terrorism start in the run up to a ref on a United ireland? That’s their goal in sight.
You really think they’d start bombing when their end goal is on the way?

You have a poor grasp on the dynamics here in Ireland it seems.

With the recent rise in dissident republican activity, you don't need to look far to see what could derail any trend towards a UI.

Berserker

Aside : If there was another vote and it was a 'Yes' in NI, what would people think about that?

Podge_irl wrote: »

This will go down as an utterly depraved re-writing of history by various components of the Leave campaign so that we end up as No Deal being the only true and virtuous Brexit when it was derided as irresponsible to even bring up the idea that something so disastrous would be the end outcome during the referendum.

The remainers may want to present it in that manner but a no deal Brexit has always been the only viable Brexit for the UK. The EU was never and will never let anyone leave with a deal that favours the party that is departing. It'd be suicide on their part. TMs deal kept the UK tied to the EU, which conflicts with the openness that they want to achieve post Brexit.

People are starting to search EU law for ways to stop this now. Think about that for a moment in the context of Brexit.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

There is a little bit of a rise in anti Irish sentiment sadly. Think it's at its highest since the Manchester bombing a long time ago. We have to build bridges.

I don't get that. You've a minority who've always had that view. You've a minority of Irish people with a strong hatred for everything British. The majority on both sides will get on just fine. The politicians are bickering because their careers are on the line. Ireland will go into a recession post Brexit and FG will suffer at the ballot box. We all know that.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

There should be a public vote on No Deal or Deal. That would be proper democracy in my view. The British public didn't decide this would be it.

And I do think immigration pushed the vote over 50%. Unfortunately that accounted for the difference in winning or losing. It might not be large. But 4% of people can swing it.

If their is another vote, I firmly believe that it'll be a stronger 'Yes' this time round. I really do. Immigration was the decider, I agree. Was talking to a solicitor about this today and he is amazed by the lack of prep here for a large influx of EU citizens. Will be interesting to see how things go here if we have to deal with a large influx of EU nationals along with a recession.

declanflynn

Deleted User wrote: »

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Why would republican terrorism start in the run up to a ref on a United ireland? That’s their goal in sight.
You really think they’d start bombing when their end goal is on the way?

You have a poor grasp on the dynamics here in Ireland it seems.

With the recent rise in dissident republican activity, you don't need to look far to see what could derail any trend towards a UI.

I don't think Republicans will derail the possibility of a united Ireland